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Footballguy
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Looks like I was wrong here.What a mess! Team seems divided between Wade/Butler (and supporters) and Rondo (and supporters). Hoiberg seems largely ignored. Butler will win out over all this because he's the only player/coach of value on this team.
Well, wrong is a funny word. Perhaps you made a bad assumption (one anybody would have made) but I still think you were right and GarPax was wrong. In a related story, the sun is currently setting in the west.Looks like I was wrong here.
That's hard to do.Markkanen an impressive 0-for-10 from 3 tonight.
Damn, I didn't approve of the trade obviously but I was on Team Markkanen before the draft.Markkanen an impressive 0-for-10 from 3 tonight.
4-10 from long range last night to bring his 3 game tally to 5-of-33. Can't generate his own offense whatsoever and does nothing defensively. He's basically not much more than a spot up long range shooter at this juncture. If he can't do that either? Oh boy.Damn, I didn't approve of the trade obviously but I was on Team Markkanen before the draft.
Top 5 seems very likely. Their offense has been terrible. Worst in most of the statistical categories. Maybe they do a little better when LaVine is healthy but I still think they'll be bad enough.The key seems to be to finish in the bottom 5. By most accounts (at this point at least,) there are 5 potentially game-changing talents in this draft : Bagley, Porter, Bamba, Ayton, and Doncic.
I was just musing about who they'd be most likely to covet in this draft. I think Ayton and Bamba are definitely in play as obviously Lopez isn't the long-term answer at C. Doncic is a distinct possibility as he can play either guard spot and the Bulls still don't really know exactly what they have in Dunn and LaVine. At worst, Doncic would fetch decent minutes off the bench in a platoon with the defensive stopper Dunn. My question with him is whether or not he's athletic enough to create his own shot in the NBA. If he's simply a guy who can catch and shoot off screens and can't create space for himself, I don't know if I'd spend a top 3 pick.Top 5 seems very likely. Their offense has been terrible. Worst in most of the statistical categories. Maybe they do a little better when LaVine is healthy but I still think they'll be bad enough.
I like Doncic and Ayton the best right now but there is plenty of time to change my mind.
I think the Bulls are good. If we were to reset the season, they would finish above .500. They are young, talented and their best player hasn’t played a game yet. LaVine, Dunn, and Markkanen for Butler (and Patton) will be viewed in history as a lopsided trade in favor of the Bulls. Draft picks should no longer be considered as a major factor for improvement. Their current roster and potential to add to it with their cap space is enough for them to be an Eastern Conference contender for years to come.They have to stop winning already. At this point, the good that will come out of this is that the asking price for Mirotic is going up, so if he can keep this run of solid play going, they might actually be able to get something for him in January. The bad is that they've already played themselves from having the best chance at the #1 pick to likely somewhere from 4-6. They really need to stay in the top 5 to get one of the prospects with All-star upside in this draft. Trae Young, I believe, has replaced Bamba in the top 5 prospects argument and if he keeps playing like this through March, he could potentially move into the top 3.
Bold statement, I sure hope you're right, but I am not ready to make such a proclamation yet. I still want to see Dunn take the next step, see what Lavine looks like and how his (likely) high usage rate affects what they have going right now. See if Markkanen continues to improve, if Mirotic can keep his level of play up.I think the Bulls are good. If we were to reset the season, they would finish above .500. They are young, talented and their best player hasn’t played a game yet. LaVine, Dunn, and Markkanen for Butler (and Patton) will be viewed in history as a lopsided trade in favor of the Bulls. Draft picks should no longer be considered as a major factor for improvement. Their current roster and potential to add to it with their cap space is enough for them to be an Eastern Conference contender for years to come.
I don't see any way they can unload that awful Felicio contract without attaching future draft picks/assets, which defeats the purpose of a rebuild. Maybe in a deal where they take on a huge, bad contract with fewer years on it.I'd only deal Mirotic if certain he won't return (which I guess seems like given they're even entertaining dealing him). Or rids them of Felicio in the process.
Too bad they didn't lock Mirotic up long term.
I get they probably don't have many options or leverage, but that deal above just feels like making a deal for the sake of making a deal.
Well, the no-trade clause is fairly easy to circumvent if both the Bulls and Pistons are hot to make the deal and Detroit wants to have him/doesn't mind having him under contract for the same $12M salary for next season. All the Bulls have to do is pick up the team option for '18-'19 and it instantly voids the no-trade clause. The no-trade is an issue if the team trading for Mirotic prefers to have the option to pull that trigger or not themselves.As a Piston fan glad to hear about the no trade clause and really hope he doesn't want to come here. Rumour here is Kennard+ 1st rounder for Mirotic which may get us to playoffs this year but destroy the future.
Yeah, if I'm a Pistons fan, I'm definitely with you on that. You want to be where the 76ers are, a collection of young talent that should theoretically be peaking when LeBron hangs them up and the Warriors start to really age. I don't mind that the Bulls took this approach in retrospect, as much as trading Butler stung (and still stings) but kif they keep winning games, they're going to play their way out of a top 5-6 pick without lottery luck. That's where the potential franchise players reside in this draft (Ayton, Porter, Bagley, Doncic, Young, Bamba.)Kennard looks to be a 7th/8th man at best so far so Mirotic definitely an upgrade for now. The problem is if he leaves after 2018 4 years of VanGundy drafts will leave us with just Stanley Johnson (who sucks) while passing on difference makers like Booker and Mitchell.
I'd rather the Pistons be sellers than buyers at this point. They won't win a playoff series vs Bos, Cle, Tor or Wash so what's the point?
That deal would be lunacy for Detroit.As a Piston fan glad to hear about the no trade clause and really hope he doesn't want to come here. Rumour here is Kennard+ 1st rounder for Mirotic which may get us to playoffs this year but destroy the future.
Apparently, this IS the holdup. If Mirotic approves the trade without the second year option being picked up (as the Pelicans are demanding) then he would either have to be signed using an exception (likely for a good deal less than $12.5M) by New Orleans or he'd become a free agent again. He is hesitating to do that, so I guess this would be called the opposite of what is commonly described as "betting on yourself."Evilgrin 72 said:Woj reporting the Pelicans offering Asik's dog #### contract and a future 1st rounder for Mirotic, but the deal can't be completed at present because the Pelicans don't want the team option for next year at $12.5M picked up. Without doing that, Mirotic has to approve the trade to satisfy that clause, but if he does so, he loses his Bird rights. You need a ####ing PhD to figure out how the hell this stuff works. I don't know if Mirotic has refused to waive the NMC or not.
Protection is top 5. The bottom half of the West isn't very good so the Pelicans will probably make the playoffs even without Cousins. I feel the same way about the trade. But the Bulls weren't expected to be players in the free agent market yet so the Asik contract probably won't matter much.Essentially, the Bulls are eating roughly $14M in future money and tying up $11M in cap space for next year to get a pick swap from a 2nd rounder to 1st rounder. On its face, I don't love it, but they had to deal him (unfortunately) and I want to see what the protections on that pick are before "grading" the deal.
Just saw that. Top 5 protected this year, which means it will almost certainly convey in this draft. At least it's not the ill-fated Sacramento pick, but probably will end up late teens to early 20s. Not a ton of guys I really like in that range, but maybe someone will fall or we can strike gold again with a late first rounder like Butler. And then trade him away for lesser players down the road.Protection is top 5. The bottom half of the West isn't very good so the Pelicans will probably make the playoffs even without Cousins. I feel the same way about the trade. But the Bulls weren't expected to be players in the free agent market yet so the Asik contract probably won't matter much.
10. Cheering Omer Asik
This was the only happy subplot to DeMarcus Cousins' devastating injury -- a seismic event that could alter Cousins' career and tilt the axis of the league.
The Pelicans suddenly needed Asik again after he missed time due to Crohn's disease, and when he took the floor, New Orleans fans showered him with what seemed like genuine encouragement. They cheered every little thing -- every basket, every rebound, every free throw -- and groaned with the sorrow of nervous Little League parents when he missed chippies. They knew what he had gone through, how low he sunk, and wanted him to rise out of it. (I checked with several folks who attended recent games, and they agree the cheers were sincere -- and not sarcastic.)
It's easy to forget now, but Asik was once a good player -- so good, the Rockets started the bidding for him at three first-round picks. (Spoiler: They did not get three first-round picks.) He set cement-wall screens, rolled to the hoop, and dished canny interior passes. He barricaded the rim, and rebounded everything.
Then he got paid, and became both a punchline and the target of ire from fans who (understandably) grew frustrated with an unproductive oaf clogging their favorite team's cap sheet. Before September, no one really knew what was going on with Asik -- only that he was ill, and not playing.
When he first came back in December, Asik looked alarmingly unready -- almost wobbly on his feet. He was no longer an NBA player.
He has shown glimpses in the past week of the player he used to be. It would be a wonderful story if he got there.
No way on Earth they're trading that contract without attaching a 1st rounder, so that means they won't trade it period. I'm sure he'll be bought out after next season, but he's going to have a year and a half in uniform at the very least to contribute.Zach Lowe had a nice little bit on Asik in his column today:
I don't know much about Crohn's disease but I liked Asik (warts and all) when he was with the Bulls last time. It would be wonderful if he could be a decent player again. Probably won't happen though.
If the Bulls don't want to be players in '19 free agency, I could see them flipping the Asik contract next year as an expiring for an even worse contract (think Noah, Deng, Mahinmi) and an asset. With the impending cap crunch that they've talked about, expirings might be more valuable then they've been in recent years.No way on Earth they're trading that contract without attaching a 1st rounder, so that means they won't trade it period. I'm sure he'll be bought out after next season, but he's going to have a year and a half in uniform at the very least to contribute.