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Official Chicago Bulls Thread: Pick #7 third year in a row


Juxtatarot

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Wendell Carter Facts: 

- He is a year younger than Bamba and Ayton. 
- When Bagley didn't play, he averaged 16.3 PPG, 10.5 RPG, 3 BPG 
- Carter has a 9'1 standing reach which is the same as Jaren Jackson 
- Carter is the same height as Al Horford who he is being compared to as.

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1 minute ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

I don't hate the pick, but man. A whole year of tanking to get the second best player on his college team is somewhat ho hum. 

I'm fine with Carter. I thought he was better then Bagley who reminds me a bit too much of Okafor. 

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7 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

I'm fine with Carter. I thought he was better then Bagley who reminds me a bit too much of Okafor. 

I still don't get this comparison. Okafor is a post plodder. Bagley might be the best athlete in the draft at 6' 11". If Bagley can develop a consistent outside stroke and is incorporated into a team defensive scheme, he'll be a superstar. Of course, Sacramento... 

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14 minutes ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

I still don't get this comparison. Okafor is a post plodder. Bagley might be the best athlete in the draft at 6' 11". If Bagley can develop a consistent outside stroke and is incorporated into a team defensive scheme, he'll be a superstar. Of course, Sacramento... 

He's not built to guard the 5 position at the next level. He'll get bullied. Okafor comparisons is both at Duke play C and looked better in College then they will in the pros. His defending IQ is terrible. He's more athletic then Okafor which might help him in the NBA but he's not a rim defender. If the Bulls were drafting a big he was the last guy I wanted. And then add Sac to the fold and well that's where playing careers seem to go to die unless you got DeMarcus COusin's ability

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According to reports MPJ back issue is a real serious concern. There's people who believe he needs another surgery to get him right and the whole redshirting his first season scared a lot of teams off

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30 minutes ago, DJackson10 said:

He's not built to guard the 5 position at the next level. He'll get bullied. Okafor comparisons is both at Duke play C and looked better in College then they will in the pros. His defending IQ is terrible. He's more athletic then Okafor which might help him in the NBA but he's not a rim defender. If the Bulls were drafting a big he was the last guy I wanted. And then add Sac to the fold and well that's where playing careers seem to go to die unless you got DeMarcus COusin's ability

Horrible spot for Bagley.

I still think Carter is way more like Okafor than Bagley is. Okafor's real problem is that he's slow and can't jump (or shoot.) Carter is probably a little better shooter than Bagley, but his physical tools are closer to Okafor's than Bagley's. 

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Verified account 41s41 seconds ago

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Source: Bulls are on Boise State's Chandler Hutchison. He was shut down in workouts with Chicago promise.

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Markkanen = Mirotic

Carter = R. Lopez

Hutchison = Valentine

 

One thing you can say is that they do have a plan/system and are drafting pieces for that system.  Whether or not it's any good remains to be seen, but they do seem to be prepared to auteur that vision.

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47 minutes ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

Markkanen = Mirotic

Carter = R. Lopez

Hutchison = Valentine

 

One thing you can say is that they do have a plan/system and are drafting pieces for that system.  Whether or not it's any good remains to be seen, but they do seem to be prepared to auteur that vision.

One thing to note in these comparisons is the newer players in the comparison are more athletic than the older.  (Not that any of them are elite NBA athletes though.)

Equating Carter with Lopez and Hutchison with Valentine doesn't make much sense to me.  There are huge differences in their games.  I don't understand what you mean here.  

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Now that the draft is over, it's interesting to think about the final makeup of the team.  

Bigs

Everything seems decided here.  Rotation will be Lopez, Markkanen, Carter and Portis.  Felicio and Asik will only play due to injuries or garbage time. I don't think Vonleh will be re-signed.

Wings

This is much more interesting. LaVine is almost certainly coming back. I think the organization also wants to give Hutchison and Valentine development minutes in the rotation.  Holiday could be dumped to give other guys minutes but I think it's more likely they keep him.  If they do, that's four rotation wings already.  So then, what to do with Nwaba?  I think the Bulls will want to re-signed or match an offer to him unless he gets a really big offer.  But then that's a fifth rotation player so someone won't get minutes.  Grant can also play here (as well as PG) but I don't see him as a rotation piece any longer.  Zipser and Kilpatrick won't be kept.   Blakeney has a second year as a two-way G-Leaguer so he'll be between the two teams again.

Points

Paxson said at season's end that he likes the Dunn - Payne duo.  They will go with that again.  Grant will be third string.

Free Agency

So I believe that makes 13 players.  14 is Nwaba is kept.  Asik could be dumped if they wanted another roster slot but it probably won't be necessary.  

I'm still of the belief that they should largely sit this free agency year out and focus on next year when the contracts of Asik and Lopez will be off the books and they will have a ton of cap space.  Hopefully the young core (LaVine, Dunn, Markkanen, Carter) will show enough improvement and promise that the Bulls will be a more attractive free agent destination.

A move I'd like to see is absorbing a one-year bad contract for whatever the best pick compensation they can get.  Maybe someone like Bayless from the Sixers.  I guess I'd be open to a two-year bad contract but the pick compensation would have to be much more since that would impact '19 free agency.

 

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23 hours ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

Should I even bother to keep watching? We know Hutchinson is going 22.

God, if LaVine walks (fine with me) the Bulls will probably be the slowest team in the NBA. 

Also look at WCJ's #s when Begley wasn't playing and missed games. His numbers are very very good. 

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7 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

Now that the draft is over, it's interesting to think about the final makeup of the team.  

Bigs

Everything seems decided here.  Rotation will be Lopez, Markkanen, Carter and Portis.  Felicio and Asik will only play due to injuries or garbage time. I don't think Vonleh will be re-signed.

Wings

This is much more interesting. LaVine is almost certainly coming back. I think the organization also wants to give Hutchison and Valentine development minutes in the rotation.  Holiday could be dumped to give other guys minutes but I think it's more likely they keep him.  If they do, that's four rotation wings already.  So then, what to do with Nwaba?  I think the Bulls will want to re-signed or match an offer to him unless he gets a really big offer.  But then that's a fifth rotation player so someone won't get minutes.  Grant can also play here (as well as PG) but I don't see him as a rotation piece any longer.  Zipser and Kilpatrick won't be kept.   Blakeney has a second year as a two-way G-Leaguer so he'll be between the two teams again.

Points

Paxson said at season's end that he likes the Dunn - Payne duo.  They will go with that again.  Grant will be third string.

Free Agency

So I believe that makes 13 players.  14 is Nwaba is kept.  Asik could be dumped if they wanted another roster slot but it probably won't be necessary.  

I'm still of the belief that they should largely sit this free agency year out and focus on next year when the contracts of Asik and Lopez will be off the books and they will have a ton of cap space.  Hopefully the young core (LaVine, Dunn, Markkanen, Carter) will show enough improvement and promise that the Bulls will be a more attractive free agent destination.

A move I'd like to see is absorbing a one-year bad contract for whatever the best pick compensation they can get.  Maybe someone like Bayless from the Sixers.  I guess I'd be open to a two-year bad contract but the pick compensation would have to be much more since that would impact '19 free agency.

 

I don't want Bayless unless we are getting a 1st and something else in there. The dude is so bad anymore with his shot IQ. I've heard of a rumor maybe we take Deng's contract and maybe get Kuzma if Lakers are going to try and get Lebron? I'd like that. I'm all for taking a contract and buying it out unless the dude is gonna play for us. Take the first or 2nd round or whatever other assets and buy them out if we have too. Still have no idea why Asik is on this roster still

 

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From Giovany

The Nets take Dzanan Musa. I'm told he would have been taken much higher had he agreed to be stashed in Europe next year, but his insistence on coming to the NBA right away caused him to slip a bit. I like this pick for the Nets. Musa gets buckets, is competitive and super young.

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On 6/22/2018 at 0:26 PM, Juxtatarot said:

One thing to note in these comparisons is the newer players in the comparison are more athletic than the older.  (Not that any of them are elite NBA athletes though.)

Equating Carter with Lopez and Hutchison with Valentine doesn't make much sense to me.  There are huge differences in their games.  I don't understand what you mean here.  

They'll fill the same roles in the Hoiberg offense. Markkanen as the sweet shooting stretch four they thought they had long-term in Niko. Carter will be the space eater/rebounder that plays off Markkanen and allows him the space to get shots off, just like Lopez. Hutchison is an experienced leader at the college level who can do a bit of everything on the wing and, not entirely unlike Denzel. 

Not saying they're identical players, but they seem to have an idea of the kind of roles they want to fill and drafted to fill those roles. Drafting for fit over raw talent. 

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On 6/22/2018 at 8:28 PM, DJackson10 said:

Also look at WCJ's #s when Begley wasn't playing and missed games. His numbers are very very good. 

I don't know what that has to do with team speed. LaVine is the only elite athlete they have and he's an RFA. They have a lot of guys who are slow-footed for their positions, particularly at the 3-5 spots. Doesn't necessarily mean they'll suck, but it seems odd in this era where everything is trending toward lateral speed, switching, positional versatility (particularly on defense.) 

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5 hours ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

I don't know what that has to do with team speed. LaVine is the only elite athlete they have and he's an RFA. They have a lot of guys who are slow-footed for their positions, particularly at the 3-5 spots. Doesn't necessarily mean they'll suck, but it seems odd in this era where everything is trending toward lateral speed, switching, positional versatility (particularly on defense.) 

I agree our defense is still questionable (Hence why I didn't want trae Young) but I was more so saying that you said we got the #2 of the Duke players. WCJ was their top recruit until Belgley switched and WCJ had fantastic #s even without Begley in there. I read at least two reports that said if Begley hadn't flipped to Duke WCJ would've been a top 3 guy in this draft. I'm happy we got Begley. Would've rather of gotten Doncic or AYton but it wasn't meant to be. I'm very happy we didn't take the huge risk in MPJ. I think he's the type of guy a team with lesser talent should be taking a risk on and quite frankly the Chicago fans hype of him was bigger because of what a big fan he was of the team. 

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I might be changing my mind about free agency.  Earlier I was very much of the opinion that the Bulls should use their cap space to take on bad contracts in exchange for assets.  

Now I'm wondering if maybe they should look to add a decent player or two.  This year is very different than most with the salary cap crunch.  The top guys will get paid, of course, but there are good deals to be had for some of the other guys after the money dries up.  But I don't think they necessarily need to keep any newly signed player(s), particularly if a bit older.  It would be more about buying an asset that they could flip later.  

I'm not as bullish about their chances in 2019 free agency as I was previously.  There will be more teams with cap space available and that will drive up prices.  Although the Bulls might be a more promising franchise if they play decently, I think we know that they still likely have a long way to go.

I guess, though, the most important thing is to be flexible and consider multiple paths.

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11 hours ago, DJackson10 said:

NBC Chi made a nice list of potential FA guys 

Bulls Potential FA Targets

5. Aaron Gordon

4. Mario Hezonja

3. Clint Capela

2. Jabari Parker

1. Isiah Thomas

summaries of all 5 in link

Gordon and Capela are RFAs and would get matched. 

Milwaukee might pass on Parker (who's also a RFA) but I'm not sure he makes a lot of sense.  He's basically a 4 and with Lauri and Portis, I don't think there is a need for him.  Maybe if he was signed for really cheap but Milwaukee would probably match a cheap contract.

IT doesn't fit the Bulls timeline.  I'd only be interested in a bargain contract that would be tradeable but I think another team will take a chance on him for more money.

I'm intrigued by Hezonja.   

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15 hours ago, Max Power said:

After the boogie news... dont bother with lavine. He will never be worth the potential free agent.

 

####

I'm so torn on him.  On one hand, he does nothing but score and does even that inefficiently.  We have no idea if he'll be on the same trajectory he was before the ACL even.  The Bulls knew this would be the case when they traded for him.  He's frankly not worth very much.

On the other hand, if they don't match an offer sheet for him, they gain cap space.  For whom?  I agree with what Juxtatrot said earlier, it seems clear that the Bulls' strategy was to clear out space to compete for free agents next summer, but next summer a lot more teams will have space.  This year, they're one of the few teams that does.  So, they let LaVine walk and next summer Asik and Lopez come off the cap - they'll have plenty of dough to sign probably two max players, but who's coming to Chicago to play with Markkanen, Dunn and Wendell Carter?

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7 hours ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

I'm so torn on him.  On one hand, he does nothing but score and does even that inefficiently.  We have no idea if he'll be on the same trajectory he was before the ACL even.  The Bulls knew this would be the case when they traded for him.  He's frankly not worth very much.

On the other hand, if they don't match an offer sheet for him, they gain cap space.  For whom?  I agree with what Juxtatrot said earlier, it seems clear that the Bulls' strategy was to clear out space to compete for free agents next summer, but next summer a lot more teams will have space.  This year, they're one of the few teams that does.  So, they let LaVine walk and next summer Asik and Lopez come off the cap - they'll have plenty of dough to sign probably two max players, but who's coming to Chicago to play with Markkanen, Dunn and Wendell Carter?

Jimmy and Kyrie, of course! (Just kidding...I think.)

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I’m not sure a deal absorbing a contract for a first rounder is going to be available. Most of the top free agents are signed already and teams seem reasonably content to stand pat for now. I’m sure they could get a pick to take on 2019-2020 salary (like someone like Deng) but I don’t think the Bulls are interested in something like that.

I assume they will end up re-signing LaVine for something like 4/$70. I’m on the fence about that. But if they didn’t match a contract (although I think the Hawks and Kings will pass on him) I wouldn’t mind. I don’t mind taking a chance on him that he’ll improve though too. Maybe they could settle on a contract like Mirotic’s with a 2nd year team option. Maybe even something like 2/$40 so Zach gets paid well for agreeing. I’d rather have that than LaVine taking the QO if it would come to that.

 I’m still against a long-term Parker signing (I read a rumor) because of his defense but I might be being too tough on him. He still has star offensive potential and could fit in at the 3 on that side of the ball.

Apparently Nwaba is asking for more money than the Bulls are interested in paying him and other teams are interested. With his inability to shoot, I’m surprised he’d be worth a lot in this market. Still, I’d hate to lose him for no return.

I guess if I had to choose,  I’d pass on signing LaVine long-term and go all in on the 2 max guy plan for 2019 free agency. The hope would be that Lauri, Dunn and Carter show enough growth that the 2 guys would think Chicago would be a promising destination. That’s still a long shot though and probably not the direction the organization will choose.

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19 hours ago, Juxtatarot said:

Jimmy and Kyrie, of course! (Just kidding...I think.)

It's not entirely out of the realm of possibility. I wish it was doable THIS off season when few teams have room. Butler, Kyrie, Markkanen, and WCJ would be right there with Boston and Philly as best in the East. 

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The more I think about it, this 2 max free agent plan is really a long shot.  There are so many teams that will have cap space next year and some others that could afford two guys.  I can make sense of whatever Gar and Pax decide.  It's funny that so many fans seem to be so dead set on a particular path but to me, it's all a crap shoot to a degree.

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Let him go and see if the Thunder will trade their 2022 first rounder to dump Melo on our books. Waive him and let him go to Houston. I'd rather do that than sign LaVine or Jabari. Suck again next year and get another lottery pick and then try to lure Kyrie and Butler. 

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13 hours ago, Evilgrin 72 said:

Also, if I haven't mentioned it, I'm about f#%&ing fed up with the Sacramento Kings. 

let make a trade so bad, the NBA has to protect us from ourselves.  Yet allow us to spend like a 5 year old. :wall:

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I don't HATE the Lavine signing.  We all knew they would overspend.  No he isn't worth it, but maybe he will fun to watch.  This team is boarderline playoff for a year or two.  I really just think the cap space is the more important thing these days.  We aren't winning it any time soon. 

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4 hours ago, Max Power said:

I don't HATE the Lavine signing.  We all knew they would overspend.  No he isn't worth it, but maybe he will fun to watch.  This team is boarderline playoff for a year or two.  I really just think the cap space is the more important thing these days.  We aren't winning it any time soon. 

And this eats up a big portion of it. No way to sign two max players next year now, so the Irving/Butler team up pipe dream went from pie-in-the-sky to impossible. This is a white flag that indicates that GarPax don't believe they can lure marquee free agents as well as not wanting to give up a piece of the Butler trade. 

The only good thing is that the deal has some sort of injury protection built in. The bad thing is that by next year LaVine will officially be known as "the untradeable Zach LaVine contract." They'll have $28 million annually tied up in LaVine and Felicio and will get about 20 points, 5 rebounds and 3 assists per game with low PER for that money. 

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4 hours ago, Max Power said:

I don't HATE the Lavine signing.  We all knew they would overspend.  No he isn't worth it, but maybe he will fun to watch.  This team is boarderline playoff for a year or two.  I really just think the cap space is the more important thing these days.  We aren't winning it any time soon. 

He'll be good for some highlight-reel dunks. Outside of that, he'll be a high volume, low efficiency scorer that doesn't pass, rebound or play defense. Best case is that he refines his outside shot and becomes a better team player. He reminds me a lot of a smaller, more athletic young Tyreke Evans. That guy refined his game and made himself an asset from an afterthought, but I think that's the best we can hope for from LaVine. Not the upside I'm looking for from a $20M player. 

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On 7/7/2018 at 7:26 AM, Max Power said:

let make a trade so bad, the NBA has to protect us from ourselves.  Yet allow us to spend like a 5 year old. :wall:

:lmao: the NBA didn’t protect anybody, it was Chicago’s fault to assume the Kings would be picking outside the top 10 at any point. And then the Bulls watch the Kings get mocked merciless on the internet for hours after signing the LaVine offer sheet, and think, “hmm, this sounds like a good deal.”

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On 7/7/2018 at 11:48 AM, Evilgrin 72 said:

He'll be good for some highlight-reel dunks. Outside of that, he'll be a high volume, low efficiency scorer that doesn't pass, rebound or play defense. Best case is that he refines his outside shot and becomes a better team player. He reminds me a lot of a smaller, more athletic young Tyreke Evans. That guy refined his game and made himself an asset from an afterthought, but I think that's the best we can hope for from LaVine. Not the upside I'm looking for from a $20M player. 

In fairness, he’s a really good 3 point shooter who can also attack off the dribble (assuming last year was an aberration because of the injury). Those guys are always useful. And I’ve been saying he’s better than Wiggins for years, and you got him at half the price. :glass half full:

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9 hours ago, thecatch said:

:lmao: the NBA didn’t protect anybody, it was Chicago’s fault to assume the Kings would be picking outside the top 10 at any point. And then the Bulls watch the Kings get mocked merciless on the internet for hours after signing the LaVine offer sheet, and think, “hmm, this sounds like a good deal.”

But we could have had Georgio Papadopolous!!

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On 7/7/2018 at 10:28 AM, Max Power said:

I don't HATE the Lavine signing.  We all knew they would overspend.  No he isn't worth it, but maybe he will fun to watch.  This team is boarderline playoff for a year or two.  I really just think the cap space is the more important thing these days.  We aren't winning it any time soon. 

I'm ok with it because of the injury insurance we have. He blows out his left knee again it won't cost us 

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10 hours ago, thecatch said:

In fairness, he’s a really good 3 point shooter who can also attack off the dribble (assuming last year was an aberration because of the injury). Those guys are always useful. And I’ve been saying he’s better than Wiggins for years, and you got him at half the price. :glass half full:

Kind of agree. Never got the Wiggins hype. He's a nice overall player but he seems to not have the killer instinct and or seems very lackadaisical at times. I always hate when scouts and fans start comparing these guys to the best players. I don't mind comparing certain aspects of their game. For Example do to size both LeBron and Ben Simmons have comparable playmaking ability but that's as far as I go on any comparison with those two. When I talked up Carson Wentz to Eagles fans I never compared him and said he's the next this or that QB. I said his size and mobility and toughness is similar to Big Ben. He plays in a pro style offense and was doing things most guys at the highest College level QB wise including Goff were doing. He's was changing plays at the LOS which was something scouts said they hadn't seen since Peyton Manning. Knocks were needed to get better accuracy, small school, injury history and not a lot of reps in college. Skill set and what his pro potential is basically he's the prototype QB the NFL is looking for these days who's big and athletic but can also throw. He has top 10 potential. No where did I ever say he's the next Brady/Rodgers/Big Ben etc. I used his skills and compared them to guys already in the league. I hate when scouts and people say He's the next LeBron or MJ or next Gretzky or Foresberg, or Carlton or Jeter or Rodgers or Reggie White. I think that puts uneccesary pressure on these guys and is just unfair if they never materialize to that. Not the prospects fault in most cases the media and scouts overhyped them. 

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I always love Zach Lowe articles. This is how he sums up LaVine:

Quote

LaVine should develop into a useful player. He's a better shooter than critics acknowledge; he hit 39 percent from deep over two seasons before tearing his ACL, suggesting he could crack 40 if he develops the faintest idea of what constitutes a good shot. (Also: The ability to hit "bad" 3-pointers off the dribble is an important skill.) LaVine was out of his depth during a brief Minnesota experiment at point guard, but his failure there should help him as a secondary playmaker.

But his defense has been so, so bad, and his judgment on offense so spotty, that there is a higher-than-usual chance for a big-name restricted free agent -- maybe 30 percent -- that LaVine just isn't good. There is a correspondingly small chance that he becomes an All-Star, and a whole lot of gray area in between. Paying almost $20 million per season to find out the end of that story is a shaky bet.

I agree on this.  I don’t mind the decision although personally I think I wouldn’t have matched. But I hope he improves his weaknesses and turns into an excellent player. It’s certainly possible but one we don’t know the answer of.

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11 hours ago, Max Power said:

WCJ is having a great summer league. Kid looks legit. 

I'm not going to get too amped over summer league, but Carter has shown solid rim protection ability, better shooting than I expected, and a better perimeter defense than I had anticipated.  Whether this translates, we'll see (remember Markkanen was awful in summer league last year) but so far, I'm cautiously optimistic.  Definitely liking the pick more than I did on draft night.  I think a lot of that came from just hoping for a splash, now that that has passed and it's left to just evaluate the player they chose, early returns are very good.

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Looks like they are signing Jabari Parker.  We'll see what the Bucks do but I think he's going to be a Bull.  I mentioned up-thread that I wasn't crazy about this possibility due to his poor defense.  K.C. Johnson tweeted that they want to try to play him at SF.  LaVine-Parker combo at wing defense is horrible.  Maybe long term they'll be able to play him at the 4 more but I'm struggling to figure out good rotations with Parker for this year.

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