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35 minutes ago, HaFo SaFo said:

Have the IRS classify them as collectibles like regular coins, require the exchanges to report ownership, and tax any profits at 28%. 

I don't think that crushes them at all to be honest. I get taxed when I sell sports cards on EBay. Doesn't crush the market for sports cards on EBay. 

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Looking at my Coinbase history, I bought a little over 20 bitcoins last August to September when the price was between $577 and $716. I got out after a modest profit. Most normal people would be suici

I can’t believe what a bunch of nerds we are. We’re looking up money laundering in a dictionary.  

I would have just given you $500 to stay out of this thread

5 hours ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Jokes aside, please explain to me how the Govt can crush it? 

I believe this was a legit threat before major companies started adding it to their balance sheet. With each new news story, this threat diminishes, IMO.

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1 hour ago, urbanhack said:

I believe this was a legit threat before major companies started adding it to their balance sheet. With each new news story, this threat diminishes, IMO.

Oh sure, I just don't get that the Govt can "kill it," per se. Taxing it either as an investment or as a collectible looks reasonably likely. But who didn't really expect that? 

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10 hours ago, urbanhack said:

I believe this was a legit threat before major companies started adding it to their balance sheet. With each new news story, this threat diminishes, IMO.

This

 

This is why BTC isn’t a tulip bulb.  
 

In addition - if Biden came out tomorrow and suggested that BTC needs to be shut down I wouldn’t guarantee we would see a price drop.  Nigeria banned BTC and it’s currently trading as much as a 50% premium there.  People in India are scrambling to get in as well before their government shuts them out.

 

 

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4 hours ago, hooter311 said:

The federal reserve's chief of innovation, sunayna suteja, touts bitcoin on twitter.

@sunayna

Hell, I'd argue that governments will want a new tax revenue stream and should find a way to encourage more BTC, as long as it doesn't take over as an official currency since there is no BTC printer going brrrrr. 

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The biggest question I have about Bitcoin is how much can anyone trust whoever created it? From what I've read, the Satoshi guy might either be dead, or a bunch of people, or who knows. I've also read that whoever Satoshi Nakamoto is, he/they have amassed 1.1 million bitcoins for themselves and supposedly haven't sold any.

Now if this imaginary person is dead and those coins could never be used, that is one thing. But if some anonymous person or collective is just sitting on over a million coins isn't that a huge red flag?

I get not trusting governments with monetary policy, but at least there is some accountability in a democracy. But putting trust an anonymous dude or persons who in essence could control the price of Bitcoin on a whim seems sketchy. 

Edited by ericttspikes
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21 minutes ago, ericttspikes said:

Now if this imaginary person is dead and those coins could never be used, that is one thing. But if some anonymous person or collective is just sitting on over a million coins isn't that a huge red flag?

 

This is about the one thing that gives me the slightest reservations about BTC.  What happens when 5-10 people or organizations own half the BTC out there.  Would everyone else just say screw it, sell off and let these 5-10 organizations keep it all to themselves?  Then watch it be worthless?  

Its probably not much different than what is going on now with the dollar....1%'ers and all.  

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“I think people who are professional traders that are going to trade cryptocurrencies, it’s just disgusting,” Munger added at the time. “It’s like someone else is trading turds and you decide I can’t be left out.”  :lmao:

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6 hours ago, ericttspikes said:

The biggest question I have about Bitcoin is how much can anyone trust whoever created it? From what I've read, the Satoshi guy might either be dead, or a bunch of people, or who knows. I've also read that whoever Satoshi Nakamoto is, he/they have amassed 1.1 million bitcoins for themselves and supposedly haven't sold any.

Now if this imaginary person is dead and those coins could never be used, that is one thing. But if some anonymous person or collective is just sitting on over a million coins isn't that a huge red flag?

I get not trusting governments with monetary policy, but at least there is some accountability in a democracy. But putting trust an anonymous dude or persons who in essence could control the price of Bitcoin on a whim seems sketchy. 

Perhaps I can get you to see a different POV related to your concern.  There have been 3 bull market in BTC’s history; 2013, 2017 and the one we’re in now.  Satoshi could have sold at the 2013/2017/2021 market peaks when the value of his/her BTC was:

2013: $1.15B
2017: $21.8B
2021: $63.8B

...the stones it would take to hodl thru those 2013/2017 market peaks...and even now when hodling has become mainstream would seem unrealistic when you consider human behavior.  To not sell a single one?  After the 2017 bull market, a year later, Satoshi’s BTC stack decreased to a value of $3.8B.  Not one moved.  Consider also that BTC launched in 2009, so for years, it was worth bupkus.

This is also copied directly from his wiki page...

Nakamoto continued to collaborate with other developers on the bitcoin software until mid-2010, making all modifications to the source code himself. He then handed over control of the source code repository and network alert key to Gavin Andresen,[20] transferred several related domains to various prominent members of the bitcoin community, and stopped his recognized involvement in the project.

I’m always sensitive to concerns about people’s hesitation getting into the space.  It’s a lot to take in.  But we’ve seen the advent of institutional investors coming into the space in the last 12 months.  The concern you have seems to be one that should dissipate over time and when you think about what Satoshi hasn’t realized by selling.

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13 minutes ago, TheDirtyWord said:

Perhaps I can get you to see a different POV related to your concern.  There have been 3 bull market in BTC’s history; 2013, 2017 and the one we’re in now.  Satoshi could have sold at the 2013/2017/2021 market peaks when the value of his/her BTC was:

2013: $1.15B
2017: $21.8B
2021: $63.8B

...the stones it would take to hodl thru those 2013/2017 market peaks...and even now when hodling has become mainstream would seem unrealistic when you consider human behavior.  To not sell a single one?  After the 2017 bull market, a year later, Satoshi’s BTC stack decreased to a value of $3.8B.  Not one moved.  Consider also that BTC launched in 2009, so for years, it was worth bupkus.

This is also copied directly from his wiki page...

Nakamoto continued to collaborate with other developers on the bitcoin software until mid-2010, making all modifications to the source code himself. He then handed over control of the source code repository and network alert key to Gavin Andresen,[20] transferred several related domains to various prominent members of the bitcoin community, and stopped his recognized involvement in the project.

I’m always sensitive to concerns about people’s hesitation getting into the space.  It’s a lot to take in.  But we’ve seen the advent of institutional investors coming into the space in the last 12 months.  The concern you have seems to be one that should dissipate over time and when you think about what Satoshi hasn’t realized by selling.

Plot twist....

There is no Satoshi.

:tinfoilhat:

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6 hours ago, jb1020 said:

This is about the one thing that gives me the slightest reservations about BTC.  What happens when 5-10 people or organizations own half the BTC out there.  Would everyone else just say screw it, sell off and let these 5-10 organizations keep it all to themselves?  Then watch it be worthless?  

Its probably not much different than what is going on now with the dollar....1%'ers and all.  

You realize bitcoin is currently a 900+ billion dollar asset right now?  Microstrategy is the largest public holder outside of the chinese and us government. And they are sitting on less than 100k btc.

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1 hour ago, TheDirtyWord said:

Perhaps I can get you to see a different POV related to your concern.  There have been 3 bull market in BTC’s history; 2013, 2017 and the one we’re in now.  Satoshi could have sold at the 2013/2017/2021 market peaks when the value of his/her BTC was:

2013: $1.15B
2017: $21.8B
2021: $63.8B

...the stones it would take to hodl thru those 2013/2017 market peaks...and even now when hodling has become mainstream would seem unrealistic when you consider human behavior.  To not sell a single one?  After the 2017 bull market, a year later, Satoshi’s BTC stack decreased to a value of $3.8B.  Not one moved.  Consider also that BTC launched in 2009, so for years, it was worth bupkus.

This is also copied directly from his wiki page...

Nakamoto continued to collaborate with other developers on the bitcoin software until mid-2010, making all modifications to the source code himself. He then handed over control of the source code repository and network alert key to Gavin Andresen,[20] transferred several related domains to various prominent members of the bitcoin community, and stopped his recognized involvement in the project.

I’m always sensitive to concerns about people’s hesitation getting into the space.  It’s a lot to take in.  But we’ve seen the advent of institutional investors coming into the space in the last 12 months.  The concern you have seems to be one that should dissipate over time and when you think about what Satoshi hasn’t realized by selling.

thanks ...

you should dissipate. 

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9 hours ago, hooter311 said:

You realize bitcoin is currently a 900+ billion dollar asset right now?  Microstrategy is the largest public holder outside of the chinese and us government. And they are sitting on less than 100k btc.

Yeah...more of a hypothetical concern.  Trust me, I’m pretty much all 50/50 in now and growing.

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16 hours ago, Binky The Doormat said:

“I think people who are professional traders that are going to trade cryptocurrencies, it’s just disgusting,” Munger added at the time. “It’s like someone else is trading turds and you decide I can’t be left out.”  :lmao:

It's funny that a lot of "professional" money managers are very negative or disgusted about crypto. We've seen it a little bit in this thread and the stock thread. I get them disagreeing with it and wanting to warn people or spread their opinion. But there is a reasonable, logical way to do that and reasonable concerns with crypto. Instead, there is an almost palatable anger, almost like when you say something to a person that is close to the truth and they lash out at you. 

Odd. 

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On 2/25/2021 at 4:17 AM, hooter311 said:

The federal reserve's chief of innovation, sunayna suteja, touts bitcoin on twitter.

@sunayna

Link? Can't find the tweet :unsure: 

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1 hour ago, ConstruxBoy said:

It's funny that a lot of "professional" money managers are very negative or disgusted about crypto. We've seen it a little bit in this thread and the stock thread. I get them disagreeing with it and wanting to warn people or spread their opinion. But there is a reasonable, logical way to do that and reasonable concerns with crypto. Instead, there is an almost palatable anger, almost like when you say something to a person that is close to the truth and they lash out at you. 

Odd. 

Edited because I can't delete

Edited by Alex P Keaton
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1 hour ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Now I'm curious for your opinion. 

I agree with your observations, but also find that if you take a skeptical view of Bitcoin, it feels a lot like trying to convince a family member to leave a cult.

note:  I’m not saying Bitcoin is a cult

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28 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

I agree with your observations, but also find that if you take a skeptical view of Bitcoin, it feels a lot like trying to convince a family member to leave a cult.

note:  I’m not saying Bitcoin is a cult

That can be a fair observation. There are certainly some adamant cheerleaders. I'm mostly surprised that people who understand "investing" and have a place in their portfolio for a speculative hedge investment (and certainly not everyone has that bucket) wouldn't put some of it in crypto. Let's say you have a $1 million in your portfolio and you allocation 10% of that to speculative stocks. So right now you're spending that $10,000 on SPACs and Pink Sheet Biotechs that Chet from the internet recommended. Doesn't it make sense to put $2-3k of that money into crypto related investments? Even if you're not sure it is anything more than a ponzi scheme? Not as a FOMO, but as a hedge that you are wrong? Or are you so certain that your assessment of this brand new asset class is completely correct?

Maybe it's just me.

Edited by ConstruxBoy
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13 hours ago, TheDirtyWord said:

Perhaps I can get you to see a different POV related to your concern.  There have been 3 bull market in BTC’s history; 2013, 2017 and the one we’re in now.  Satoshi could have sold at the 2013/2017/2021 market peaks when the value of his/her BTC was:

2013: $1.15B
2017: $21.8B
2021: $63.8B

...the stones it would take to hodl thru those 2013/2017 market peaks...and even now when hodling has become mainstream would seem unrealistic when you consider human behavior.  To not sell a single one?  After the 2017 bull market, a year later, Satoshi’s BTC stack decreased to a value of $3.8B.  Not one moved.  Consider also that BTC launched in 2009, so for years, it was worth bupkus.

This is also copied directly from his wiki page...

Nakamoto continued to collaborate with other developers on the bitcoin software until mid-2010, making all modifications to the source code himself. He then handed over control of the source code repository and network alert key to Gavin Andresen,[20] transferred several related domains to various prominent members of the bitcoin community, and stopped his recognized involvement in the project.

I’m always sensitive to concerns about people’s hesitation getting into the space.  It’s a lot to take in.  But we’ve seen the advent of institutional investors coming into the space in the last 12 months.  The concern you have seems to be one that should dissipate over time and when you think about what Satoshi hasn’t realized by selling.

Thanks for the response. I enjoy reading your posts about this and have learned a lot. I only have $4k in BTC, but this issue has me hesitate considering it an investment vs. a gamble. For me personally, the unknown variable of who controls $30b of BTC and not knowing their intentions isn't a positive. I get that they could of sold at many points and didn't, so it could be benign and a non-issue. The anonymous factor is tough to get past too. It could be that these are honest, good people holding it or it could be some blackhats endgame to crater it all after the value gets to a certain level or time period. Dunno. Either way, people have to trust the system they created for it to work. The creator(s) hoarding that many coins makes them the central government of this system, and gives them a ton of power to keep it going or crashing it all down.

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2 hours ago, ConstruxBoy said:

That can be a fair observation. There are certainly some adamant cheerleaders. I'm mostly surprised that people who understand "investing" and have a place in their portfolio for a speculative hedge investment (and certainly not everyone has that bucket) wouldn't put some of it in crypto. Let's say you have a $1 million in your portfolio and you allocation 10% of that to speculative stocks. So right now you're spending that $10,000 on SPACs and Pink Sheet Biotechs that Chet from the internet recommended. Doesn't it make sense to put $2-3k of that money into crypto related investments? Even if you're not sure it is anything more than a ponzi scheme? Not as a FOMO, but as a hedge that you are wrong? Or are you so certain that your assessment of this brand new asset class is completely correct?

Maybe it's just me.

That all seems completely fair.  I don’t put money into any of those things - so for me it’s a simple choice (right now).  But in the situation you describe, it is a very fair question.

Thanks for taking the time to offer a thoughtful reply!

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40 minutes ago, ConstruxBoy said:

Of course. Certainly respect your opinions on the matter. 

My opinions are very much uninformed!  Which is why I'm asking this group.   Truly, thank you.


Unrelated aside, I have a few co-workers who are....not terribly smart.....getting really into day trading.   One of them is very excited about Bitcoin.  When I asked him about the "mining" of Bitcoin....it became clear that he imagines someone physically mining for an actual precious metal, like gold mining.  It was disturbing.   (this was the same young co-worker who was buying Game Stop because he wanted to stick it to the fat cats on Wall St......)

I realize most people in crypto currencies aren't like my co-worker.  It just reminds me an awful lot of tech stocks in 1999.

 

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1 hour ago, Alex P Keaton said:

My opinions are very much uninformed!  Which is why I'm asking this group.   Truly, thank you.


Unrelated aside, I have a few co-workers who are....not terribly smart.....getting really into day trading.   One of them is very excited about Bitcoin.  When I asked him about the "mining" of Bitcoin....it became clear that he imagines someone physically mining for an actual precious metal, like gold mining.  It was disturbing.   (this was the same young co-worker who was buying Game Stop because he wanted to stick it to the fat cats on Wall St......)

I realize most people in crypto currencies aren't like my co-worker.  It just reminds me an awful lot of tech stocks in 1999.

 

Yeah, it's funny. I was trying to explain it to my wife at lunch today and she's very smart and it was still a little iffy on whether she got it. Certainly a tough process to imagine and I can't explain all the technical details, although I do ok. 

As I said, I understand it well enough to feel safe investing but not well enough to explain to other people in great technical detail. 
Of course, that's true of a number of tech and biotech stocks I own, so...

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8 hours ago, ConstruxBoy said:

It's funny that a lot of "professional" money managers are very negative or disgusted about crypto. We've seen it a little bit in this thread and the stock thread. I get them disagreeing with it and wanting to warn people or spread their opinion. But there is a reasonable, logical way to do that and reasonable concerns with crypto. Instead, there is an almost palatable anger, almost like when you say something to a person that is close to the truth and they lash out at you. 

Odd. 

I think one of the reasons may be because of their ability to access it for their clients.  I know my Raymond James broker was prohibited from even putting GBTC in his clients portfolios as recently as October.  So an investment class where access is sketchy at best but likely taking dollars away from vehicles they do have at their disposal...it’s not unexpected they’d have a jaded view.

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If I worked money professionally and talked smack about  BTC for 10 years and started doing the Math and realized a 10k investment would mean I’d be retired living on the ocean I’d be salty too

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Decided to add some $ to my BlockFi account this weekend to take advantage of the dip. Of course, by the time it clears, and I can buy, btc will probably be back into the mid 50's.

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5 minutes ago, brun said:

Decided to add some $ to my BlockFi account this weekend to take advantage of the dip. Of course, by the time it clears, and I can buy, btc will probably be back into the mid 50's.

Thanks for the bump then :thumbup:

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On 2/26/2021 at 1:51 PM, Alex P Keaton said:

My opinions are very much uninformed!  Which is why I'm asking this group.   Truly, thank you.


Unrelated aside, I have a few co-workers who are....not terribly smart.....getting really into day trading.   One of them is very excited about Bitcoin.  When I asked him about the "mining" of Bitcoin....it became clear that he imagines someone physically mining for an actual precious metal, like gold mining.  It was disturbing.   (this was the same young co-worker who was buying Game Stop because he wanted to stick it to the fat cats on Wall St......)

I realize most people in crypto currencies aren't like my co-worker.  It just reminds me an awful lot of tech stocks in 1999.

 

I had a “boomer” ask me about BTC last week.  “Can I ask a stupid question..... where is the coin.... there is an actual coin out there isn’t there?”

”in the future aren’t these coins going to be counterfeited”

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59 minutes ago, jb1020 said:

For the Alt Coin guys...check out BEPRO.   I got in with a tiny amount and its up about 400%.  Been slowly adding to it.  

Its my moonshot coin right now.  Currently trading at .006. 

This asset is not supported by Coinbase :rolleyes:

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19 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

This asset is not supported by Coinbase :rolleyes:

Yeah.  I started a kucoin account.  It was a very confusing exchange at first.  You can move most of your coinbase crypto to kucoin, then convert to whatever.  It was pretty easy to get going. 

Kucoin also has the "bots" you can set up.  Give them a budget and they'll buy and sell coins for you at the optimal times.   

I wanted to get back into XRP. I had a bit of it when I first started on coinbase, then coinbase pulled them so I traded.  

 

 

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4 minutes ago, jb1020 said:

Yeah.  I started a kucoin account.  It was a very confusing exchange at first.  You can move most of your coinbase crypto to kucoin, then convert to whatever.  It was pretty easy to get going. 

Kucoin also has the "bots" you can set up.  Give them a budget and they'll buy and sell coins for you at the optimal times.   

I wanted to get back into XRP. I had a bit of it when I first started on coinbase, then coinbase pulled them so I traded.  

My crypto balance equals all the free stuff given to me at Coinbase, right now I'm at $61. My loyalty lies with them :lmao:

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27 minutes ago, beer 30 said:

My crypto balance equals all the free stuff given to me at Coinbase, right now I'm at $61. My loyalty lies with them :lmao:

HODL!!!  

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On 3/3/2021 at 11:03 AM, jb1020 said:

Yeah.  I started a kucoin account.  It was a very confusing exchange at first.  You can move most of your coinbase crypto to kucoin, then convert to whatever.  It was pretty easy to get going. 

Kucoin also has the "bots" you can set up.  Give them a budget and they'll buy and sell coins for you at the optimal times.   

I wanted to get back into XRP. I had a bit of it when I first started on coinbase, then coinbase pulled them so I traded.  

 

 

Any recommendations for other sites that I can compare for buy crypto that isn't available on coinbase?

I want to look into all my options

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On 3/3/2021 at 11:08 AM, beer 30 said:

My crypto balance equals all the free stuff given to me at Coinbase, right now I'm at $61. My loyalty lies with them :lmao:

At $68.69 now, y'all laugh all you want. Putting in an order for a pool now.

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56 minutes ago, Yenrub said:

Any recommendations for other sites that I can compare for buy crypto that isn't available on coinbase?

I want to look into all my options

I use coinbase and coinbase pro for most everything.  Kucoin is a site that has a ton of options, its a tad overwhelming.  Kraken, Gemini and Binance are other popular exchanges.    

I've gotten the hang of Kucoin.  I like it now.  I haven't deposited any USD to Kucoin yet.  I've just transferred crypto from coinbase directly to kucoin.  

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On 3/10/2021 at 1:25 PM, Yenrub said:

Any recommendations for other sites that I can compare for buy crypto that isn't available on coinbase?

I want to look into all my options

You may want to check into some of the Decentralized Exchanges like Uniswap (UNI) and SushiSwap (SUSHI).  Also, there are DEX Aggregators like 1Inch (1INCH) that find the best prices on all the DEX’s.

As far as tools to use to simply educate yourself on the details of many crypto projects out there, I’d look into Messari.

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On 3/3/2021 at 7:38 AM, jb1020 said:

For the Alt Coin guys...check out BEPRO.   I got in with a tiny amount and its up about 400%.  Been slowly adding to it.  

Its my moonshot coin right now.  Currently trading at .006. 

 

Bepro Currently at .0185.  Up 1100% in a month.  The future of online gaming and gambling is not dollar bills.

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  • 2 weeks later...

You can now buy a Tesla using BTC.  I'm sure some will do it, but that doesn't seem like a smart move as a consumer.  Unless you have 100 BTC laying around.    

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