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Bad Officiating - Discuss


WheelsUp

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Something needs to be done about it. I dont know if its the media needing to point it out more, teams needing to address it or more or players to do what Norman and Kelce did. I no longer fault either of them for their actions. I have no problem with Kelce doing what he did. The ref missed that call and he sacrificed the rest of the game to make it talked about for a while. The video of his neck getting twisted should be shown with his reaction every time. Missing calls as egregious as these calls are is baffling when they are paid to watch a certain part of the play without removing their eyes. The ref never takes his eyes off the QB area, Linesmen never take their eyes of the line and so on.

How do these calls continue to get missed by the best the game has to offer. Now there are human mistakes like missing a hold or an illegal contact, but a facemask, late hit and a roughing the kicker that were so obvious? How is this even remotely possible when they are looking right at it? That issue at the end of the first half was unacceptable.

Another issues that has made me bring this up? What if teams will jump offside at the end of the game and hit the kicker to hurt him so he has to come off the field? These are mistakes and we need to see how these guys are punished publicly. They impact the game in such a way, that we need transparency. There is no public accountability for these officials, it needs to be much more than what it is now, much much more. I had nothing on the line in this game what so ever, which ironically let me watch this game differently. The officiating was a travesty and as I look back on the whole Sunday, this can be a very bad one that changes things around the league. A player even went to the commish and doesnt get an obvious call in the game.

I digress, but this should be a very popular conversation for the remainder of the year. It is altering football for the worse. They are not officiating, they are controlling. There is a difference.

There was one play (I dont remember which) where a player was interfered with in the endzone and it was the talk at the end of the game. In the replay you see the official reach for the flag, but fail to throw it. So he knew there was a penalty, he just didnt call it. That phantom fumble call too? If we didnt have fantasy on the line, not many would watch this product like they do now.

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7 hours ago, WheelsUp said:

They are not officiating, they are controlling. There is a difference.

This right here is my problem. It's almost like they want to be the center of attention. The refs are really bringing the quality of the game down with their inconsistencies on calls. They won't call flags on plays like Cam's, Kelce and the Bills last night, but then they'll call a ticky tacky penalty that didn't even effect the play. 

The NFL needs full time refs as the bad officiating has gotten way too for out of hand and is changing the outcome of too many games. Doubt Goodell will do anything because he sucks, but we all know it needs to happen.

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nraloha, this is part of the problem. Referees control the game, they dont officiate it. They are now taking earned fair points of the board. Isnt the point of officiating to get it right no matter the cost? Refs could have let the points stand, instead they fail and to protect themselves they took points off the board and said redo, when the redo was no ones fault but their own.

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Eagles game Sunday. Caleb Sturgis is rolled into and completely taken out on a FG. No call. Woukd have made it first and goal from like the 3 or 4.  

Late in the game, JPP slaps both his hands on Wentz helmet. Now I hate the rule, but it is a rule. It's a rule that they never seem to miss except for the rookie. Airman even commented " I guess rookies don't get that call."

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Do we even need this topic? Just check the prime time game topics every Thursday, Sunday and Monday night, and 1/2 the comments are about the refs & how horrific officiating has been. 

It's a huge black eye on the league. 

And IMO it starts and ends with making officials full time employees. It's completely outrageous that the people with the most influence over the outcome of football games are part timers with day jobs. 

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I din't know how many calls were bad but the Steelers-Ravens game was a horrendous game to watch.  23 penalties and those were only the penalties accepted.  

Between the number of penalties, injury timeouts and sloppy play by two mediocre teams it was terrible viewing.   The NFL really needs to take a serious look at the product their putting out there cause it sucks.

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The first issue that must be address is to clean up the rules to make the game easier to officiate. Case in point, offensive holding can be called on every play, or so goes the mantra. If that is true then the officials are already between a rock and hard spot. They can't call this penalty every play because it would make for a terrible product. To eliminate this quandary the holding rules need to be liberalized.  In return pass interference should be liberalized to allow contact past 10 yards.

The second issue is the age of the officials. I see guys in their 50s and 60s out on the field trying to keep up with players in their 20s and 30s. Because of this officials have less stamina and physical ability to keep up with the player. Fatigue is a natural consequence, and with fatigue comes mistakes. College should become the feeder program for officials just as it is for players. Prospective officials would be hired full time and go through an extensive off season vetting and training program. 

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I give Rex credit for saying they still had a chance to win and felt they should have won anyway.  And he only said it would have changed their end-game decision making when he was asked that question directly.  That entire end of half sequence was a total cluster, but he didn't blame the lose on that... good for Rex :thumbup:

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7 hours ago, WheelsUp said:

Something needs to be done about it.

The NFL tried to do something about it.  And the refs went on strike, and the overwhelming public support, including right here on this forum, went towards the officials.  Yeah money was at the center of the strike but there was a lot of performance quality stuff that was wrapped up in that too, and everyone gave that up when they pressured the NFL to cave.

The replacement refs were as bad or maybe a little worse than the regular refs and suddenly everyone forgot how bad the regular refs were.

Imagine that, a bunch of guys that were striking to prevent things like officials that work for the NFL full-time and weekly performance reviews aren't doing a good job.  Just shocking.

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The bigger issue than individual calls being missed are things like what happened at the end of the half last night with the play clock and the delay of game. People can disagree on subjective calls, maybe someone doesn't have a great view of a particular play, the speed is too fast, etc. But that was simple game operation that they failed to follow and there was no excuse for it. It probably happened because the whole offsides/non-roughing/injury timeout threw the entire official team for a loop but that's the exact issue. It speaks to a lack of training and inability to handle live situations that don't go exactly to plan.

Instead of these guys taking a second to realize that the play clock should have been reset, you likely had a few guys thinking along the lines of "how did he not call unnecessary roughness there?", "we ####ed up and we're gonna hear about this tomorrow", "that fat #### Rex is gonna be in my face" instead of being focused on their job at hand. 

Thankfully our emergency personnel don't do all their training by watching highlight clips and being quizzed. 

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1) I'm not sure how making refs full time officials changes much.  It sounds good, but what are refs going to be doing during the week (that they aren't already doing) that will significantly improve officiating?  

2) The biggest issue is that there are too many rules and they're too complex.  When that happens, refs are having to watch for a million different ticky-tack things.  Simplify the rulebook and you'll have more accurate calls.

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14 minutes ago, btemp said:

1) I'm not sure how making refs full time officials changes much.  It sounds good, but what are refs going to be doing during the week (that they aren't already doing) that will significantly improve officiating?  

2) The biggest issue is that there are too many rules and they're too complex.  When that happens, refs are having to watch for a million different ticky-tack things.  Simplify the rulebook and you'll have more accurate calls.

This.  In my profession, I work with people of widely varying competence.  The fact that a coworker has been doing the job full time for decades does not correlate well to his level of competence.  I don't see why refereeing would be different.

Pay for performance and penalties for inadequate performance is the way to go.  Works fine in most real-world professions.

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This isnt about Refs screwing YOUR team, its about BAD OFFICIATING that needs to be apologized for in a professional sports league at a rampant rate.
Seems like a very closed minded way to look at it especially when it was clear as day I said I had nothing on the line in a game that I am criticizing.
I'm a Jets fan, I loved seeing the Bills lose but dont really care of they did or didnt.

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3 minutes ago, massraider said:

No.  Take it from a Raiders fan, people care about the refs screwing your team as much as they do about your fantasy team's performance.  

Yet in a shocking twist, the Raiders were on of the least penalized teams this week. :lol: 

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1 minute ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Yet in a shocking twist, the Raiders were on of the least penalized teams this week. :lol: 

At the bar, we all decided this was a make up game for last week.  

I'm not a conspiracy guy, but if I found out that the NFL told their crew to tap the brakes on ticky tack calls vs OAK, I would not be shocked.  

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46 minutes ago, btemp said:

2) The biggest issue is that there are too many rules and they're too complex.  When that happens, refs are having to watch for a million different ticky-tack things.  Simplify the rulebook and you'll have more accurate calls.

Agree 1000%.  Refs have to watch for so many different things that they're going to miss stuff.  There was a game this weekend, I forget which one now, where one team had the ball on the 2 or 3 yd line, about to score, and got flagged for ineligible man downfield.  The LG had driven his guy into the end zone, and he ended up about 2 yards into the EZ as a pass was thrown, to the corner to a WR. Rules that like, to me, are just cluttering the rulebook. The guy is ineligible, everyone knows it, nobody is throwing him a pass...if he's good enough to bust through the D line and block a LB 5 yds past the LOS then let him...

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9 minutes ago, massraider said:

At the bar, we all decided this was a make up game for last week.  

I'm not a conspiracy guy, but if I found out that the NFL told their crew to tap the brakes on ticky tack calls vs OAK, I would not be shocked.  

That occurred to me as well....Especially in a nationally televised game. It seemed like they wanted to be able to point at a game and say, "see! We don't overly penalize the Raiders - y'all are just crazy!" 

 

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That mess up in the BUF-SEA game was horrendous. How they could not call Sherman for a 15 yarder is beyond comprehension. The ref was standing over the ball for what seemed like hours, which I also think contributed to the subsequent delay of game penalty as Carpenter tried again after the spike play. There was only 4 seconds or so on the play clock by the time he moved away -- that, too, was likely a mistake as the playclock should have been reset after the spike, which I am not sure it was.

Totally killed momentum, but worse yet, Buffalo had a legitimate shot to at least tie that game.

 

 

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They had to put a regular ball in play for the spike (which I'm not sure they didn't have Tyrod be the one to spike it as opposed to someone on the kicking team) and then switch the ball out for a K ball for the kick but never re-set the clock at all.  I don't understand how HQ in NY can't buzz the official and tell them they made a mistake and should replay the down without the 5 yard delay penalty.

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2 hours ago, wlwiles said:

Agree 1000%.  Refs have to watch for so many different things that they're going to miss stuff.  There was a game this weekend, I forget which one now, where one team had the ball on the 2 or 3 yd line, about to score, and got flagged for ineligible man downfield.  The LG had driven his guy into the end zone, and he ended up about 2 yards into the EZ as a pass was thrown, to the corner to a WR. Rules that like, to me, are just cluttering the rulebook. The guy is ineligible, everyone knows it, nobody is throwing him a pass...if he's good enough to bust through the D line and block a LB 5 yds past the LOS then let him...

That was the Raiders - Broncos game.  Carr threw a TD pass to Murray that was called back because of that ticky tack call. 

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4 hours ago, Bucsfan5493 said:

This right here is my problem. It's almost like they want to be the center of attention. The refs are really bringing the quality of the game down with their inconsistencies on calls.

Same thing in all sports.  I'm watching the World Series thinking, how can the strike zone change this much from ump to ump?  I quit watching the NBA years ago because the officiating was so arbitrary.  The NFL has to address this problem soon (agree with all of you saying simplify the rules/interpretation), and cut the length of time reviews has added to the game.

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3 hours ago, btemp said:

1) I'm not sure how making refs full time officials changes much.  It sounds good, but what are refs going to be doing during the week (that they aren't already doing) that will significantly improve officiating?  

2) The biggest issue is that there are too many rules and they're too complex.  When that happens, refs are having to watch for a million different ticky-tack things.  Simplify the rulebook and you'll have more accurate calls.

Ask the Chicago Black Sox what being underpaid and overworked while having a huge influence over the game outcome did for incentive to take money from the mob...

its a huge problem. Incentive is there. Calls have become seriously questionable. 

It happens in every sport - most recently in the NBA.

The worse it gets the more I think some refs are on the take.  

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I hope none of us are naive enough to not think some official(s) is/are not on the take in each league.
I'm sure many dont want to discuss the taboo, but if it was exposed privately, would the league really tell us?
They would have to be outed by an insider for them to get caught, like all the other times.

Ex-NBA ref Tim Donaghy: 'Organized crime will always have a hand in sports'
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/may/22/ex-nba-ref-tim-donaghy-organized-will-always-have-a-hand-in-sports

Thought this was interesting on his Wiki page.
On April 22, 2014, Donaghy claimed that the league office was going to push referees to fix playoffs games to have Brooklyn Nets beat the Toronto Raptors, so they could advance to the second round and face the Miami Heat because it would be good for ratings,[51] which it was.[52] On May 4, 2014, the Nets eliminated the Raptors after winning game seven of the series by a point.

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The refs need to be made full time employees, period.    The arguments I hear against this are:

1) There are only 16 games a year, not enough to require full -time refs.   Yet the players "only play 16 games a year" and they are "full-time".   The refs should practice all week just like the players do.  They should have mini camps and training camps.  If they got more reps calling all these plays, and spent more time in the film room then fewer of these calls would be blown.  Practice makes the players better at their jobs, it would do the same for the refs.

2) The refs don't want to give up their other sources of income.  Tough.  The league can afford to pay them enough to make it worth their while.  What that amount should be is another debate but it clearly is worth it to the NFL to pay it and reduce this awful black eye it's getting from the poor officiating.

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2 minutes ago, SofaCoach said:

The refs need to be made full time employees, period.    The arguments I hear against this are:

1) There are only 16 games a year, not enough to require full -time refs.   Yet the players "only play 16 games a year" and they are "full-time".   The refs should practice all week just like the players do.  They should have mini camps and training camps.  If they got more reps calling all these plays, and spent more time in the film room then fewer of these calls would be blown.  Practice makes the players better at their jobs, it would do the same for the refs.

2) The refs don't want to give up their other sources of income.  Tough.  The league can afford to pay them enough to make it worth their while.  What that amount should be is another debate but it clearly is worth it to the NFL to pay it and reduce this awful black eye it's getting from the poor officiating.

I don't have a problem with this.  

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6 hours ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Do we even need this topic? Just check the prime time game topics every Thursday, Sunday and Monday night, and 1/2 the comments are about the refs & how horrific officiating has been. 

It's a huge black eye on the league. 

And IMO it starts and ends with making officials full time employees. It's completely outrageous that the people with the most influence over the outcome of football games are part timers with day jobs. 

Spot on. You nailed it.

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4 hours ago, Arodin said:

Pay for performance and penalties for inadequate performance is the way to go.  Works fine in most real-world professions.

They're discussing this on NFL Live right now for Walt Anderson and his crew.  Kaela Carpenter (wife of Bills kicker, Dan Carpenter) suggests castration for Richard Sherman.  Too severe for the refs?

 

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If you want there to be fewer penalties called there are going to have to be fewer camera angles and replays.  One of the biggest reasons why they have to call so many more penalties is because the fans can see absolutely everything going on from multiple angles, even more than that officials can.

This goes for all sports.  In baseball if the ball was there before the runner he was called out.  Now the ball and the tag can be there but with the zoomed in HD cameras we can see within an inch if a player was tagged or not.  It's remarkable but it is changing the game.  It slows it down drastically.

As long as there are humans officiating sports there are going to be mistakes.  You either have to except missed/bad calls or be prepared for lots of penalties, reviews and a long game.

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1 hour ago, wormburner said:

Kaela Carpenter (wife of Bills kicker, Dan Carpenter) suggests castration for Richard Sherman.  Too severe for the refs?

 

Hmm...depends...Is the proposal to do it on the field during the game, or after the fact? 

On a serious note, that was an unfortunate tweet. 

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21 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

 ...because the fans can see absolutely everything going on from multiple angles, even more than that officials can.

Is that true? Thought the TV feed used by the broadcaster to televise the games is also used by refs, specifically because of all of the additional angles it provided. Maybe just a huge assumption on my part, but if that's so, then what do the refs actually use for replay?

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8 hours ago, Godsbrother said:

I din't know how many calls were bad but the Steelers-Ravens game was a horrendous game to watch.  23 penalties and those were only the penalties accepted.  

Between the number of penalties, injury timeouts and sloppy play by two mediocre teams it was terrible viewing.   The NFL really needs to take a serious look at the product their putting out there cause it sucks.

Don't forget the commercials. All (the same) commercials!!!

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33 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

If you want there to be fewer penalties called there are going to have to be fewer camera angles and replays.  One of the biggest reasons why they have to call so many more penalties is because the fans can see absolutely everything going on from multiple angles, even more than that officials can.

This goes for all sports.  In baseball if the ball was there before the runner he was called out.  Now the ball and the tag can be there but with the zoomed in HD cameras we can see within an inch if a player was tagged or not.  It's remarkable but it is changing the game.  It slows it down drastically.

As long as there are humans officiating sports there are going to be mistakes.  You either have to except missed/bad calls or be prepared for lots of penalties, reviews and a long game.

 

A lot of truth to this. Double edged sword too. You cut back and let the officials make most calls real time you're going to get conspiracy theorys all day and night. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, CowboysHomer said:

Part of Seattle's plan is to play on the edge or over the line of the rules, and dare officials to throw the flag with the game on the line.  Most of the time, the refs keep the flags in their pockets and let them play.

It's not like they lead the league in penalties since 2013. That would be a surprise. 

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29 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Hmm...depends...Is the proposal to do it on the field during the game, or after the fact? 

On a serious note, that was an unfortunate tweet. 

She tweeted LuckyImNotThere, so I guess on the field during the game, with slo-mo instant replay and all.

You are right, though.  I'm sure that would have been difficult for any of us to watch if Dan had been close to us, and her knee-jerk reaction may not have been the one she tweeted had she waited to calm down a bit.

I agree with Arodin's post from earlier.  Full time employment doesn't guarantee a better employee.  Re-simplify the rules, let 'em play, everybody's happy!

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8 hours ago, btemp said:

1) I'm not sure how making refs full time officials changes much.  It sounds good, but what are refs going to be doing during the week (that they aren't already doing) that will significantly improve officiating?  

2) The biggest issue is that there are too many rules and they're too complex.  When that happens, refs are having to watch for a million different ticky-tack things.  Simplify the rulebook and you'll have more accurate calls.

No. Whiff. 

NFL refs make between 175k and 200k a year - excuse me - HALF A year. These crusty ####s have more control than any other part-time workers in history. And they're terrible. And you think the solution is to make it easier on them? What ever happened to earning a salary? If ever there was an equitable job to the phrase stealing money it's NFL referee. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Dondante said:

No. Whiff. 

NFL refs make between 175k and 200k a year - excuse me - HALF A year. These crusty ####s have more control than any other part-time workers in history. And they're terrible. And you think the solution is to make it easier on them? What ever happened to earning a salary? If ever there was an equitable job to the phrase stealing money it's NFL referee. 

 

 

Actually what I propose in making them full time employees of the NFL is to make it harder on them.

I'd like to see the league ensure that just like players practice for a full preseason and every week prior to games, so do NFL officials practice for a full preseason and all week prior to games. Classroom hours, game simulations, rigorous testing and on-field scrutiny. 

I want NFL Refs to be held accountable for every good and bad call they make, and for them to have a performance-based incentive policy for salary, raises, promotions, etc. And yes, I want them to be terminated when they botch a call or ruin a game with an endless laundry shower. 

I have no interest in making life easier for the zebras. They have more influence on the game than anyone - there's simply no excuse for blowing the # of calls they've been butchering this season. It's an epidemic, and it's not going unnoticed by the fans. 

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One of the most amazing things I saw was that turd in Seattle who looked at  a Seattle linebacker bat a ball off the field and he did not throw a flag. 

 

Incompetence or too afraid to make a call against the home team? I am not sure what is more scary.

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12 minutes ago, Hot Sauce Guy said:

Actually what I propose in making them full time employees of the NFL is to make it harder on them.

I'd like to see the league ensure that just like players practice for a full preseason and every week prior to games, so do NFL officials practice for a full preseason and all week prior to games. Classroom hours, game simulations, rigorous testing and on-field scrutiny. 

I want NFL Refs to be held accountable for every good and bad call they make, and for them to have a performance-based incentive policy for salary, raises, promotions, etc. And yes, I want them to be terminated when they botch a call or ruin a game with an endless laundry shower. 

I have no interest in making life easier for the zebras. They have more influence on the game than anyone - there's simply no excuse for blowing the # of calls they've been butchering this season. It's an epidemic, and it's not going unnoticed by the fans. 

The bolded would be a good idea if the current trend of over-defining simple football actions continues.  Full time refs make sense only if officiating the game continues to become more complex then what is happening on the field.  Watching thousands of hours of football doesn't qualify any of us to be a ref, but it does mean that we know~

What is a catch, what is a fumble.  What is pass interference and what is a good no-call.  What is unnecessary roughness and what is hard-nosed football.  What is a fun celebration and what is taunting.  And so on . . . 

If we know these things, I believe the refs do, too.  It's a simple game, it doesn't match up well with excessively complex rules.

Just my :2cents:

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15 hours ago, Stompin' Tom Connors said:

Is that true? Thought the TV feed used by the broadcaster to televise the games is also used by refs, specifically because of all of the additional angles it provided. Maybe just a huge assumption on my part, but if that's so, then what do the refs actually use for replay?

The officials can only see more angles if a play is challenged.  I was talking about live plays.  We see replays instantly and the officials only go by what they first saw.  We have the benefit of seeing the replays right away and criticizing every mistake made. 

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15 hours ago, STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:

 

A lot of truth to this. Double edged sword too. You cut back and let the officials make most calls real time you're going to get conspiracy theorys all day and night. 

 

 

Very true which is why I'm not sure what the right answer is.  I just know that not everyone will ever be happy.

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