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Colin Kaepernick Thread and related anthem kneeling issues/news (5 Viewers)

'butcher boy said:
'scrumptrulescent said:
'butcher boy said:
Because you think it makes the team better?
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But the team won't be better if Kaep goes through some growing pains when opposing defenses catch on to his game. Right now, Kaep is the better option, but I worry come playoff time. That's something I haven't seen the Kaep supporters really address. Do you think teams will catch on to Kaep's game? If so, when? How much will it affect him? It's not like Kaep's been lighting up the stat sheet right now. If teams catch on and his stats and game goes down, what does that do to the Niners' chances in the playoffs this year?
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I don't get it. Catch up to his game? What are they going to catch up to? You've mentioned this a few times now and I'm not even sure you know what it means.
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Same thing we saw with Cam Newton and lots of other young QBs. Once enough tape is out there on a player defenses tend to adjust. Truly great players obviously play through it, but others can struggle.
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Cams problems run much deeper than teams having tape on him.
 
'saintfool said:
'MAC_32 said:
I am very surprised that people still question the move to go to Kaepernick, he's the now and the future, he opens so much more of the offense for Harbaugh to utilize. Smith is a limited QB, Harbaugh utilized him masterfully, got the absolute most out of him when no one else could get anything. Doesn't mean he's the answer. This is Kaepernick's team, Smith is going to get paid this offseason due to lack of alternatives and help get his next team's front office fired in 3 years.
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to be fair, Smith wasn't getting much help or support from the coaches in the years preceding Harbaugh. people act like he is truly awful or nothing more than a career backup. he's shown that he can be effective even if he isn't the most dynamic playmaker in the game. there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too. Smith will draw interest from a number of teams that need an experienced starting QB. he would do well to avoid those teams and their front offices that are total messes. he's proven to be a decent QB with the right coaching but that might be a luxury in the offseason market.
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Smith is in a tough spot, he will demand more money than rookies and hasn't done enough to distinguish himself from them. His best bet will be a team not picking early enough to pick who they want and a team with a front office that needs to win now. Arizona immediately comes to mind. Problem with this win now approach is similar to the issues he ran into before. It will take some pride swallowing i don't think he is capable of but staying put and being patient is the right move. Hope San Francisco works a trade instead
 
'scrumptrulescent said:
'butcher boy said:
Because you think it makes the team better?
Click to expand...
But the team won't be better if Kaep goes through some growing pains when opposing defenses catch on to his game. Right now, Kaep is the better option, but I worry come playoff time. That's something I haven't seen the Kaep supporters really address. Do you think teams will catch on to Kaep's game? If so, when? How much will it affect him? It's not like Kaep's been lighting up the stat sheet right now. If teams catch on and his stats and game goes down, what does that do to the Niners' chances in the playoffs this year?
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I don't get it. Catch up to his game? What are they going to catch up to? You've mentioned this a few times now and I'm not even sure you know what it means.
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:goodposting: When you can add more pages from the playbook with Kaep behind center, opposing teams still don't have enough tape to study. It happened last season with Smith too. Teams already have all the tape they need with Smith. Smith isn't gonna add more pages do to his limitations. Kaep has already.
 
'saintfool said:
'MAC_32 said:
I am very surprised that people still question the move to go to Kaepernick, he's the now and the future, he opens so much more of the offense for Harbaugh to utilize. Smith is a limited QB, Harbaugh utilized him masterfully, got the absolute most out of him when no one else could get anything. Doesn't mean he's the answer. This is Kaepernick's team, Smith is going to get paid this offseason due to lack of alternatives and help get his next team's front office fired in 3 years.
Click to expand...
to be fair, Smith wasn't getting much help or support from the coaches in the years preceding Harbaugh. people act like he is truly awful or nothing more than a career backup. he's shown that he can be effective even if he isn't the most dynamic playmaker in the game. there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too. Smith will draw interest from a number of teams that need an experienced starting QB. he would do well to avoid those teams and their front offices that are total messes. he's proven to be a decent QB with the right coaching but that might be a luxury in the offseason market.
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If Smith goes to another team (which he should), then it's back to Square One where he had to learn another offense, deal with new coaches, etc. On a lesser team, he has zero guarantee like he has zero on this one.
 
'drummer said:
Anybody who thinks Alex Smith is the future is SF hasn't been paying attention to what Harbaugh and Baalke have been doing at the QB position. Even after Smith decided to stick around SF for another year when Harbaugh was named HC, they went after Matt Hasselbeck, then had Andy Dalton on their draft board (who IMO would be starting since the beginning of this season if they had drafted him), traded up to get Kaep after CIN nabbed Dalton, then of course went after Peyton Manning.

If this doesn't tell you anything about Harbaugh and Smith, then again, you aren't paying attention.

In the past 2 games, Kaep has had 10 completions over 20 yards to Smith's 22 over the past nine games with zero sacks. Across the board passing wise, the 49ers have increased the efficiency and averages with Kaep behind center. Never mind completion rate. Kaep thows a ball away and still has to gain chemistry with his recievers. Smith already has taken 24 sacks while starting (to go with his 44 last season). Sacks are negative plays. Sacks on 3rd down even are more negative. The 49ers have improved on the 3rd down stat since Kaep has started, and that 3rd down stat had been poor with Smith, even with Harbaugh.

Things like this are the reason why the 49er hired Harbaugh. If he can increase and improve the passing offense with another QB, he will. Despite what the fans and the media wish and question. The system isn't built around Smith. The system is the system itself, like Martz's system in STL, where he plugged in Bulger over Warner. Only this system has balance, and the threat of the run with all the different formations and sets needs a mobile QB who can be a threat with the run. That along with being more aggresive with the throws, having a big arm to make deeper plays, and a fast trigger to keep defenses guessing and off-balance with increased passing tempo.

Steve Young used to say when you go on the road, you pack your Defense and Special Teams. Kaep has passed the 'road test' in a hostile environment with payback added in from NO. People look at his overall stat line and say "well Smith does that in his sleep". So a second year guy in the NFL does what Smith already has done, but does it better. Got it. There have been plenty of games last season where Smith had gone 18 of 30+ for zero TDs in a win. Smith already had a game against NYJ where he went 12-21 for zero TDs in a win. This is why you have one of the best defenses in the NFL, and with the 49ers fast approaching the Salary Cap ceiling, that defense could be missing a few key pieces down the road. That's why you go and find a true Franchise QB to keep you competitive, and Smith is no Franchise QB. Not saying Kaep is, but the 49ers without Bill Walsh anywhere in the room haven't found one yet.

That's why they hired Jim Harbaugh.
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You're kind of missing the point. I, and probably, most would agree that Kaep is the future of the team but in the short term I think it's still very much debatable whether he is a better option this year since the playoffs are getting closer.I really hope I am putting too much stock in the idea of teams watching tape and shutting down some of Kaep's game in the near future. I hope my gut is wrong about that one and he leads us to a Superbowl.

 
'butcher boy said:
'drummer said:
Anybody who thinks Alex Smith is the future is SF hasn't been paying attention to what Harbaugh and Baalke have been doing at the QB position. Even after Smith decided to stick around SF for another year when Harbaugh was named HC, they went after Matt Hasselbeck, then had Andy Dalton on their draft board (who IMO would be starting since the beginning of this season if they had drafted him), traded up to get Kaep after CIN nabbed Dalton, then of course went after Peyton Manning.

If this doesn't tell you anything about Harbaugh and Smith, then again, you aren't paying attention.

In the past 2 games, Kaep has had 10 completions over 20 yards to Smith's 22 over the past nine games with zero sacks. Across the board passing wise, the 49ers have increased the efficiency and averages with Kaep behind center. Never mind completion rate. Kaep thows a ball away and still has to gain chemistry with his recievers. Smith already has taken 24 sacks while starting (to go with his 44 last season). Sacks are negative plays. Sacks on 3rd down even are more negative. The 49ers have improved on the 3rd down stat since Kaep has started, and that 3rd down stat had been poor with Smith, even with Harbaugh.

Things like this are the reason why the 49er hired Harbaugh. If he can increase and improve the passing offense with another QB, he will. Despite what the fans and the media wish and question. The system isn't built around Smith. The system is the system itself, like Martz's system in STL, where he plugged in Bulger over Warner. Only this system has balance, and the threat of the run with all the different formations and sets needs a mobile QB who can be a threat with the run. That along with being more aggresive with the throws, having a big arm to make deeper plays, and a fast trigger to keep defenses guessing and off-balance with increased passing tempo.

Steve Young used to say when you go on the road, you pack your Defense and Special Teams. Kaep has passed the 'road test' in a hostile environment with payback added in from NO. People look at his overall stat line and say "well Smith does that in his sleep". So a second year guy in the NFL does what Smith already has done, but does it better. Got it. There have been plenty of games last season where Smith had gone 18 of 30+ for zero TDs in a win. Smith already had a game against NYJ where he went 12-21 for zero TDs in a win. This is why you have one of the best defenses in the NFL, and with the 49ers fast approaching the Salary Cap ceiling, that defense could be missing a few key pieces down the road. That's why you go and find a true Franchise QB to keep you competitive, and Smith is no Franchise QB. Not saying Kaep is, but the 49ers without Bill Walsh anywhere in the room haven't found one yet.

That's why they hired Jim Harbaugh.
Click to expand...
You're kind of missing the point. I, and probably, most would agree that Kaep is the future of the team but in the short term I think it's still very much debatable whether he is a better option this year since the playoffs are getting closer.I really hope I am putting too much stock in the idea of teams watching tape and shutting down some of Kaep's game in the near future. I hope my gut is wrong about that one and he leads us to a Superbowl.
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I didn't post this to counter any particular point. If and when I do, I will quote that point. For some odd reason, fans who were on the "In Harbaugh I Trust" bandwagon are suddenly looking for the emergency exit with this move (even if temporary). I never have jumped on that bandwagon, but this move isn't as crazy as some think. If he can go to the playoffs with Smith behind a defense and run game, what makes you think he can't with Kaep? There is no guarantee they win the Super Bowl with Smith. In fact with Kaep, they look more like a Super Bowl bound team then with Smith.

 
If I were a fan of the 49ers, I'd be much more excited about the possibility of Kaepernick starting the rest of the season than Alex Smith.

 
'drummer said:
Anybody who thinks Alex Smith is the future is SF hasn't been paying attention to what Harbaugh and Baalke have been doing at the QB position. Even after Smith decided to stick around SF for another year when Harbaugh was named HC, they went after Matt Hasselbeck, then had Andy Dalton on their draft board (who IMO would be starting since the beginning of this season if they had drafted him), traded up to get Kaep after CIN nabbed Dalton, then of course went after Peyton Manning.

If this doesn't tell you anything about Harbaugh and Smith, then again, you aren't paying attention.

In the past 2 games, Kaep has had 10 completions over 20 yards to Smith's 22 over the past nine games with zero sacks. Across the board passing wise, the 49ers have increased the efficiency and averages with Kaep behind center. Never mind completion rate. Kaep thows a ball away and still has to gain chemistry with his recievers. Smith already has taken 24 sacks while starting (to go with his 44 last season). Sacks are negative plays. Sacks on 3rd down even are more negative. The 49ers have improved on the 3rd down stat since Kaep has started, and that 3rd down stat had been poor with Smith, even with Harbaugh.

Things like this are the reason why the 49er hired Harbaugh. If he can increase and improve the passing offense with another QB, he will. Despite what the fans and the media wish and question. The system isn't built around Smith. The system is the system itself, like Martz's system in STL, where he plugged in Bulger over Warner. Only this system has balance, and the threat of the run with all the different formations and sets needs a mobile QB who can be a threat with the run. That along with being more aggresive with the throws, having a big arm to make deeper plays, and a fast trigger to keep defenses guessing and off-balance with increased passing tempo.

Steve Young used to say when you go on the road, you pack your Defense and Special Teams. Kaep has passed the 'road test' in a hostile environment with payback added in from NO. People look at his overall stat line and say "well Smith does that in his sleep". So a second year guy in the NFL does what Smith already has done, but does it better. Got it. There have been plenty of games last season where Smith had gone 18 of 30+ for zero TDs in a win. Smith already had a game against NYJ where he went 12-21 for zero TDs in a win. This is why you have one of the best defenses in the NFL, and with the 49ers fast approaching the Salary Cap ceiling, that defense could be missing a few key pieces down the road. That's why you go and find a true Franchise QB to keep you competitive, and Smith is no Franchise QB. Not saying Kaep is, but the 49ers without Bill Walsh anywhere in the room haven't found one yet.

That's why they hired Jim Harbaugh.
Click to expand...
Outstanding job of landing the plane here Drummer. I think I agree with everything. I do feel Smith will go on and play for another team, lots of teams need help at QB and he has tons of experience; I doubt you and the SF fan base wish the kid any ill will as his career moves on, probably grateful for what he has done and his commitment to the organization. It was never his fault the Niners drafted him 1.1, he came back for a lot less money and he made a lot of money on that initial contract. I don't think anyone should feel sorry for the guy and I don't think Smith should have hard feelings towards the Niners. It's all gonna work itself out and perhaps we have not seen the last of Smith this season in SF. He still might have to save the day if CK takes a hard hit which he better be careful the way he runs around.

 
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'Ministry of Pain said:
'drummer said:
Anybody who thinks Alex Smith is the future is SF hasn't been paying attention to what Harbaugh and Baalke have been doing at the QB position. Even after Smith decided to stick around SF for another year when Harbaugh was named HC, they went after Matt Hasselbeck, then had Andy Dalton on their draft board (who IMO would be starting since the beginning of this season if they had drafted him), traded up to get Kaep after CIN nabbed Dalton, then of course went after Peyton Manning.

If this doesn't tell you anything about Harbaugh and Smith, then again, you aren't paying attention.

In the past 2 games, Kaep has had 10 completions over 20 yards to Smith's 22 over the past nine games with zero sacks. Across the board passing wise, the 49ers have increased the efficiency and averages with Kaep behind center. Never mind completion rate. Kaep thows a ball away and still has to gain chemistry with his recievers. Smith already has taken 24 sacks while starting (to go with his 44 last season). Sacks are negative plays. Sacks on 3rd down even are more negative. The 49ers have improved on the 3rd down stat since Kaep has started, and that 3rd down stat had been poor with Smith, even with Harbaugh.

Things like this are the reason why the 49er hired Harbaugh. If he can increase and improve the passing offense with another QB, he will. Despite what the fans and the media wish and question. The system isn't built around Smith. The system is the system itself, like Martz's system in STL, where he plugged in Bulger over Warner. Only this system has balance, and the threat of the run with all the different formations and sets needs a mobile QB who can be a threat with the run. That along with being more aggresive with the throws, having a big arm to make deeper plays, and a fast trigger to keep defenses guessing and off-balance with increased passing tempo.

Steve Young used to say when you go on the road, you pack your Defense and Special Teams. Kaep has passed the 'road test' in a hostile environment with payback added in from NO. People look at his overall stat line and say "well Smith does that in his sleep". So a second year guy in the NFL does what Smith already has done, but does it better. Got it. There have been plenty of games last season where Smith had gone 18 of 30+ for zero TDs in a win. Smith already had a game against NYJ where he went 12-21 for zero TDs in a win. This is why you have one of the best defenses in the NFL, and with the 49ers fast approaching the Salary Cap ceiling, that defense could be missing a few key pieces down the road. That's why you go and find a true Franchise QB to keep you competitive, and Smith is no Franchise QB. Not saying Kaep is, but the 49ers without Bill Walsh anywhere in the room haven't found one yet.

That's why they hired Jim Harbaugh.
Click to expand...
Outstanding job of landing the plane here Drummer. I think I agree with everything. I do feel Smith will go on and play for another team, lots of teams need help at QB and he has tons of experience; I doubt you and the SF fan base wish the kid any ill will as his career moves on, probably grateful for what he has done and his commitment to the organization. It was never his fault the Niners drafted him 1.1, he came back for a lot less money and he made a lot of money on that initial contract. I don't think anyone should feel sorry for the guy and I don't think Smith should have hard feelings towards the Niners. It's all gonna work itself out and perhaps we have not seen the last of Smith this season in SF. He still might have to save the day if CK takes a hard hit which he better be careful the way he runs around.
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Jeff Garcia at one point had the highest passer rating (a stat I don't buy into much if at all) in 49er history over Joe Montana and Steve Young. He wasn't ran out of SF fast enough along with Steve Mariucci. Terrell Owens on the other hand has his own set of 49er fans on his side over Garcia. Garcia was not only maligned in SF, but also maligned in the NFL. John Madden called him fragile twice on a Monday Night game which IIRC the 49ers won during his second season as a full time starter on the team. Since Garcia, the 49ers haven't found a QB that could match him as far as TDs thrown in a season, and that includes Smith. Garcia's career in SF totally eclipses Smith's career. Of course Garcia had Owens and Jerry Rice, but he also had to live immediately in the shadows of Montana and Young. Guess who found Garcia? Bill Walsh in his second term as GM. It was almost a fluke too, with Walsh checking Garcia out from a suggestion of Garcia's dad or another coach.

Post Garcia, the 49ers have had a slew of scrub QB's to lead them outside of drafting Alex Smith. There has been a lot of blame or credit to go around predicated on your perspective of why they drafted Smith over Aaron Rodgers. Some think then OC Mike McCarthy was behind Smith, others think then Director of Player Personnel Scot McGlouhan was behind it (due to a professional personal relationship with a Smith family member), or that then GM/HC Mike Nolan didn't like Rodgers because he thought he wasn't coachable. All those behind the Smith decision (with the exception of John York, who wound up giving the reigns to his son Jed to run the team, and Parag Marathe who is still Jed's right hand man) are all gone now. McGlouhan finally left before Mike Singletary's second year IIRC, wheras Singletary was a coach since Smith's first season.

Had Norv Turner stayed in SF instead of going to SD for the HC job (lulz SD), Smith might have become a better QB the latter seasons. The scouting reports prior to the draft had Smith seen as a 'serviceable, smart' QB, not a true Franchise QB. He was a smart efficient player with an insane completion rate out of a gimmick offense in Utah. Turner did a remarkable job with Smith his first and only season as OC in SF. Smith's prospected ceiling even back then wasn't very high. It was Gore who became the Franchise player, not Smith in that Turner season.

Since then, it's been all Alex Smith in SF until now. Smith has been benched for scrubs up until this season, and now to being benched for Kaep. Harbaugh is not gonna pin his career in SF if Alex Smith succeeds or not. His job is to find a QB that others failed to do. Smith has been very fortunate to have a franchise rich in QB history and offense to hold onto him for so long, and in all honesty Smith really didn't have anywhere else to go. Unless it was SD with Turner when McGlouhan had him take a paycut, which he accepted. Even last season, there was talk in MIA that Smith couldn't even beat out Matt Moore according to their FO. Smith wouldn't have lasted a season behind any sub-par offensive line, or a pourus defense.

Jed York is one of Smith's biggest reasons why he is still in SF, but even he can see the writing on the wall. Smith's contract says so. They going after Peyton Manning says so. He hiring Jim Harbaugh says so.

 
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Look at it this way, for the rest of this year you have a better backup QB than you could ever get on the open market.

 
'Two Deep said:
'Bucky86 said:
:popcorn:

Vernon Davis - TE - 49ers

Following Sunday's catch-less Week 12 game, Vernon Davis told reporters that he believes Alex Smith should be the 49ers' starting quarterback.

Although Jim Harbaugh made the correct on-field decision to bench Smith for Colin Kaepernick, one of the risks he ran was creating a locker-room divide. "It's difficult, but I think Alex is still the man," said Davis. "In my heart I strongly believe that and you'll know next week. ... I'm sure Alex is still our guy." Kaepernick is still expected to start in Week 13 at St. Louis.

Source: NFL.com
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The same Vernon Davis who praised the kid the week before when he had 6 catches for 83 yards and a TD. Vernon Davis is all about himself and what they can do for him.
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Davis has always been an "I" person. Very talented and has all the skills to be one of the best but selfish. I personally believe that the Saints game plan was to take Davis out of the game, since he almost single-handily beat the Saints last season in the playoffs.

As for Kaepernick, he opens this offense up and as a fan of the team, I am no longer afraid of an offensive penalty ending a drive, getting behind in the game and/or 3rd and long's, as he has shown he can handle these situations. Now the defensive coordinator's around the league must start worrying about the athlete that can also throw and not just the ultimate manager. When you make team's prepare for more than just a manager, it can only help. This kid did not just beat two teams at the bottom of the league, Chicago has one of the best D's in the league and he went into a hostile New Orleans and beat a very motivated Saints team. The Saints wanted to redeem themselves after losing last year, they were at home with their crowd, and they were on a roll. I just hope the 49ers continue to move forward with the kid at QB.

 
'MAC_32 said:
'saintfool said:
'MAC_32 said:
I am very surprised that people still question the move to go to Kaepernick, he's the now and the future, he opens so much more of the offense for Harbaugh to utilize. Smith is a limited QB, Harbaugh utilized him masterfully, got the absolute most out of him when no one else could get anything. Doesn't mean he's the answer. This is Kaepernick's team, Smith is going to get paid this offseason due to lack of alternatives and help get his next team's front office fired in 3 years.
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to be fair, Smith wasn't getting much help or support from the coaches in the years preceding Harbaugh. people act like he is truly awful or nothing more than a career backup. he's shown that he can be effective even if he isn't the most dynamic playmaker in the game. there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too. Smith will draw interest from a number of teams that need an experienced starting QB. he would do well to avoid those teams and their front offices that are total messes. he's proven to be a decent QB with the right coaching but that might be a luxury in the offseason market.
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Smith is in a tough spot, he will demand more money than rookies and hasn't done enough to distinguish himself from them. His best bet will be a team not picking early enough to pick who they want and a team with a front office that needs to win now. Arizona immediately comes to mind. Problem with this win now approach is similar to the issues he ran into before. It will take some pride swallowing i don't think he is capable of but staying put and being patient is the right move. Hope San Francisco works a trade instead
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arizona will throw a boatload at him
 
'shadyridr said:
'MAC_32 said:
'saintfool said:
'MAC_32 said:
I am very surprised that people still question the move to go to Kaepernick, he's the now and the future, he opens so much more of the offense for Harbaugh to utilize. Smith is a limited QB, Harbaugh utilized him masterfully, got the absolute most out of him when no one else could get anything. Doesn't mean he's the answer. This is Kaepernick's team, Smith is going to get paid this offseason due to lack of alternatives and help get his next team's front office fired in 3 years.
Click to expand...
to be fair, Smith wasn't getting much help or support from the coaches in the years preceding Harbaugh. people act like he is truly awful or nothing more than a career backup. he's shown that he can be effective even if he isn't the most dynamic playmaker in the game. there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too. Smith will draw interest from a number of teams that need an experienced starting QB. he would do well to avoid those teams and their front offices that are total messes. he's proven to be a decent QB with the right coaching but that might be a luxury in the offseason market.
Click to expand...
Smith is in a tough spot, he will demand more money than rookies and hasn't done enough to distinguish himself from them. His best bet will be a team not picking early enough to pick who they want and a team with a front office that needs to win now. Arizona immediately comes to mind. Problem with this win now approach is similar to the issues he ran into before. It will take some pride swallowing i don't think he is capable of but staying put and being patient is the right move. Hope San Francisco works a trade instead
Click to expand...
arizona will throw a boatload at him
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Smith behind that O-Line would be a :tfp: .
 
'drummer said:
'shadyridr said:
'MAC_32 said:
'saintfool said:
'MAC_32 said:
I am very surprised that people still question the move to go to Kaepernick, he's the now and the future, he opens so much more of the offense for Harbaugh to utilize. Smith is a limited QB, Harbaugh utilized him masterfully, got the absolute most out of him when no one else could get anything. Doesn't mean he's the answer. This is Kaepernick's team, Smith is going to get paid this offseason due to lack of alternatives and help get his next team's front office fired in 3 years.
Click to expand...
to be fair, Smith wasn't getting much help or support from the coaches in the years preceding Harbaugh. people act like he is truly awful or nothing more than a career backup. he's shown that he can be effective even if he isn't the most dynamic playmaker in the game. there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too. Smith will draw interest from a number of teams that need an experienced starting QB. he would do well to avoid those teams and their front offices that are total messes. he's proven to be a decent QB with the right coaching but that might be a luxury in the offseason market.
Click to expand...
Smith is in a tough spot, he will demand more money than rookies and hasn't done enough to distinguish himself from them. His best bet will be a team not picking early enough to pick who they want and a team with a front office that needs to win now. Arizona immediately comes to mind. Problem with this win now approach is similar to the issues he ran into before. It will take some pride swallowing i don't think he is capable of but staying put and being patient is the right move. Hope San Francisco works a trade instead
Click to expand...
arizona will throw a boatload at him
Click to expand...
Smith behind that O-Line would be a :tfp: .
Click to expand...
On top of that, Smith needs a good scheme and I am not sure what AZ is trying to do most of the time.
 
'Fanatics said:
'drummer said:
'shadyridr said:
'MAC_32 said:
'saintfool said:
'MAC_32 said:
I am very surprised that people still question the move to go to Kaepernick, he's the now and the future, he opens so much more of the offense for Harbaugh to utilize. Smith is a limited QB, Harbaugh utilized him masterfully, got the absolute most out of him when no one else could get anything. Doesn't mean he's the answer. This is Kaepernick's team, Smith is going to get paid this offseason due to lack of alternatives and help get his next team's front office fired in 3 years.
Click to expand...
to be fair, Smith wasn't getting much help or support from the coaches in the years preceding Harbaugh. people act like he is truly awful or nothing more than a career backup. he's shown that he can be effective even if he isn't the most dynamic playmaker in the game. there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too. Smith will draw interest from a number of teams that need an experienced starting QB. he would do well to avoid those teams and their front offices that are total messes. he's proven to be a decent QB with the right coaching but that might be a luxury in the offseason market.
Click to expand...
Smith is in a tough spot, he will demand more money than rookies and hasn't done enough to distinguish himself from them. His best bet will be a team not picking early enough to pick who they want and a team with a front office that needs to win now. Arizona immediately comes to mind. Problem with this win now approach is similar to the issues he ran into before. It will take some pride swallowing i don't think he is capable of but staying put and being patient is the right move. Hope San Francisco works a trade instead
Click to expand...
arizona will throw a boatload at him
Click to expand...
Smith behind that O-Line would be a :tfp: .
Click to expand...
On top of that, Smith needs a good scheme and I am not sure what AZ is trying to do most of the time.
Click to expand...
I was reading an article that mentioned how Harbaugh's scheme works with QB's :
"Harbaugh does a great job of protecting his quarterback with scheme," Saints safety Malcolm Jenkins told me. "They run the ball well, which takes the pressure off the passing game. And then they dress up the passes to look like runs, so he has simple reads and he doesn't have to go from one side of the field to the other."

Jenkins continued to say that it's done through "different formations and runs. They're usually in 22 personnel, with one receiver. So those things are staying the same. The good thing about that for their quarterbacks, especially for Kaepernick, is that slows the defense down. We have to prepare for all that stuff. We're thinking, 'Run, run, run,' and then the passes they do set up are level passes, move the pocket, easy reads; it takes all the pressure off the quarterback."
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Here is another article that has a litte breakdown on what the 49ers do with Kaep back there in formations. Dunno what happens with Whiz in the off season either. I think AZ should fire him. But having Smith in AZ would benefit the 49ers in a big way as well.

 
3 :goodposting: 's in a row, this is why I see Smith failing when he goes somewhere else. Harbaugh finally put him in a spot to succeed where a half dozen others have failed. I'm willing to bet Smith's next destination will be more like his merry go round of regime changes than Harbaugh's system.

 
'Raider Nation said:
What's this BS with Harbaugh saying Smith is still his starting QB? Just being cute?
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I kinda find it hard to believe being that the 49ers are doing things on offense now that they couldn't do with Smith. Of course Harbaugh is crazy enough to go back to Smith. Ray Ratto mentioned the last 49er HC to do that was Red Hickey, the inventor of the shotgun offense. I think he was fired though after that season. Not that Bwah is would be fired. Just as crazy as Hickey.
 
'Raider Nation said:
What's this BS with Harbaugh saying Smith is still his starting QB? Just being cute?
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Like I thought last week, I wouldnt blame Harbaugh for going back to Smith, but I think if this team wants to win a super bowl they should keep Kaep in there.I havent seen anyone mention it yet, but I think with Hunter out for the year, it makes even more sense to keep Kaep in there.
 
'Kenny Powers said:
'Raider Nation said:
What's this BS with Harbaugh saying Smith is still his starting QB? Just being cute?
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Like I thought last week, I wouldnt blame Harbaugh for going back to Smith, but I think if this team wants to win a super bowl they should keep Kaep in there.I havent seen anyone mention it yet, but I think with Hunter out for the year, it makes even more sense to keep Kaep in there.
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Yeah, Kaep opens up the run game more with both the deep throws and the threat of running. Without Hunter back there, Kaep can help spread the offense out more to create more space for the RBs.
 
'butcher boy said:
'mr roboto said:
What happens if they win the SB with Smith though? Can you trade or bench a SB winning QB on the heels of the winning season?
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Good question. I think the most likely case is that if the 49ers win the Superbowl, it'll be because of their defense. In that case you can't say Smith won you the Superbowl and I'd go with Kaep next year.
Because you think it makes the team better?
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But the team won't be better if Kaep goes through some growing pains when opposing defenses catch on to his game. Right now, Kaep is the better option, but I worry come playoff time. That's something I haven't seen the Kaep supporters really address. Do you think teams will catch on to Kaep's game? If so, when? How much will it affect him? It's not like Kaep's been lighting up the stat sheet right now. If teams catch on and his stats and game goes down, what does that do to the Niners' chances in the playoffs this year?
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You're right. The team won't be better if Kaep struggles. So, to recap- you switch because you think it makes the team better. The team won't be better if Kaep struggles. Jim Harbaugh made the switch. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that Jim Harbaugh doesn't think Kaep will struggle. It's basic syllogism. Major premise: Jim Harbaugh makes the moves he thinks gives his team the best chance to win. Minor premise: Jim Harbaugh switched from Alex Smith to Colin Kaepernick. Conclusion: Jim Harbaugh thinks that switching from Alex Smith to Colin Kaepernick gives his team the best chance to win. You asked why someone would switch from Smith to Kaepernick, and this is your answer- they would do it because they think it makes the team better.Edit: the question of whether he's right is an interesting question. The question of why he did it is extremely boring.
 
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'SSOG said:
'butcher boy said:
'mr roboto said:
What happens if they win the SB with Smith though? Can you trade or bench a SB winning QB on the heels of the winning season?
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Good question. I think the most likely case is that if the 49ers win the Superbowl, it'll be because of their defense. In that case you can't say Smith won you the Superbowl and I'd go with Kaep next year.
Because you think it makes the team better?
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But the team won't be better if Kaep goes through some growing pains when opposing defenses catch on to his game. Right now, Kaep is the better option, but I worry come playoff time. That's something I haven't seen the Kaep supporters really address. Do you think teams will catch on to Kaep's game? If so, when? How much will it affect him? It's not like Kaep's been lighting up the stat sheet right now. If teams catch on and his stats and game goes down, what does that do to the Niners' chances in the playoffs this year?
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You're right. The team won't be better if Kaep struggles. So, to recap- you switch because you think it makes the team better. The team won't be better if Kaep struggles. Jim Harbaugh made the switch. Therefore, the only logical conclusion is that Jim Harbaugh doesn't think Kaep will struggle. It's basic syllogism. Major premise: Jim Harbaugh makes the moves he thinks gives his team the best chance to win. Minor premise: Jim Harbaugh switched from Alex Smith to Colin Kaepernick. Conclusion: Jim Harbaugh thinks that switching from Alex Smith to Colin Kaepernick gives his team the best chance to win. You asked why someone would switch from Smith to Kaepernick, and this is your answer- they would do it because they think it makes the team better.Edit: the question of whether he's right is an interesting question. The question of why he did it is extremely boring.
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Smith has struggled in his second year of this offense too. Kaep has as much exposure to this offense pre-season and post due to he running scout teams and in practice. Scott Tolzien is still on the team despite Josh Johnson being an ex-Bwah QB because he works hard learning the offense being a scout QB in practice. The 'right moves' at QB are being baked in. Even though Josh Johnson may have a similar yet lesser skill set to Kaep as opposed to Tolzien, Tolzien wound up being the 3rd QB on the roster because he eats, sleeps, and drinks the offense. Even though he is inactive most games. Preparation at the QB spot in this offense - because the 49ers finally have a real offense and game plan now - is high priority. Right now, there is no guarantee who will start between two QBs. Yet Tolzien is living and breathing the offense with zero guarantee he will ever start. Bwah (Harbaugh) in a very short period of time is creating a QB environment for they to thrive. He also wants to innovate offense at the NFL level. David Shaw, Bwah's long time assistant at both San Diego State and Stanford (who took over from Bwah as HC) has switched QB's from Josh Nunes to redshirt freshman Kevin Hogan this season and is again the Pac12 Coach of the year, post Andrew Luck. Luck under Shaw had a great season too. So the system is there, baked in, in both Bwah's legacy at Stanford to now what he is currently doing with the 49ers. butcher boy has his reservations. Even though David Shaw can go from Andrew Luck to Josh Nunes to a redshirt freshman Kevin Hogan. Still beating USC to now beating Oregon, UCLA, and maybe UCLA once more. So maybe Bwah isn't as crazy after all.
 
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i thnik that capernicus is a better qb than smith but i feel lousy for smith that guy has been thru about 7 offensive coordinators and had to change what he is supposed tob e doing every year and frankly i do not recall him being a jerk about it at all and even when san fran was trying to unload him this offseason he stuck it out and stayed on and i have enver heard him complain in any way that i thought was unjustified so basically i am for alex no matter what he does in his life and i hope that he goes on from this to found a huge mnaufacturing company that puts americans back to work bam take that to the bank and thanks alex for making the usa better take that to the bank brohans with brafros

 
'shadyridr said:
'MAC_32 said:
'saintfool said:
'MAC_32 said:
I am very surprised that people still question the move to go to Kaepernick, he's the now and the future, he opens so much more of the offense for Harbaugh to utilize. Smith is a limited QB, Harbaugh utilized him masterfully, got the absolute most out of him when no one else could get anything. Doesn't mean he's the answer. This is Kaepernick's team, Smith is going to get paid this offseason due to lack of alternatives and help get his next team's front office fired in 3 years.
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to be fair, Smith wasn't getting much help or support from the coaches in the years preceding Harbaugh. people act like he is truly awful or nothing more than a career backup. he's shown that he can be effective even if he isn't the most dynamic playmaker in the game. there is plenty of room for a game-manager-type QB in this league too. Smith will draw interest from a number of teams that need an experienced starting QB. he would do well to avoid those teams and their front offices that are total messes. he's proven to be a decent QB with the right coaching but that might be a luxury in the offseason market.
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Smith is in a tough spot, he will demand more money than rookies and hasn't done enough to distinguish himself from them. His best bet will be a team not picking early enough to pick who they want and a team with a front office that needs to win now. Arizona immediately comes to mind. Problem with this win now approach is similar to the issues he ran into before. It will take some pride swallowing i don't think he is capable of but staying put and being patient is the right move. Hope San Francisco works a trade instead
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arizona will throw a boatload at him
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why?
 
'SWC said:
i thnik that capernicus is a better qb than smith but i feel lousy for smith that guy has been thru about 7 offensive coordinators and had to change what he is supposed tob e doing every year and frankly i do not recall him being a jerk about it at all and even when san fran was trying to unload him this offseason he stuck it out and stayed on and i have enver heard him complain in any way that i thought was unjustified so basically i am for alex no matter what he does in his life and i hope that he goes on from this to found a huge mnaufacturing company that puts americans back to work bam take that to the bank and thanks alex for making the usa better take that to the bank brohans with brafros
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:thumbup:
 
'SSOG said:
'saintfool said:
'CalBear said:
Possible Alex Smith comp: Chad Pennington?
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pennington never had the arm.
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He had more arm before he destroyed his shoulder. He was never a Jay Cutler, but without injury he easily could have been a Rich Gannon. In fact, when he had his amazing breakout in 2002, that's exactly what I thought he was- a young Rich Gannon.
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In every full season that he was healthy (of course that was an issue) Chad Pennington led his team to the playoffs - some of them coming after he destroyed his shoulder. That was with two different teams, neither of which were loaded with talent. He was a much better QB than people ever give him credit for being. People would rather call him "noodle arm" or "mr. glass", because it's funnier that way. I like the Gannon comparison.
 
San Fransisco and Harbaugh is in a tough situation because regardless of which direction he goes, the only outcome that will not involve constant post-season questioning would be a Super Bowl.

If the 49ers don't win the Super Bowl, the fanbase and media will always question whether they could have with the other QB under center.

 
'Dr. Octopus said:
'SSOG said:
'saintfool said:
'CalBear said:
Possible Alex Smith comp: Chad Pennington?
Click to expand...
pennington never had the arm.
Click to expand...
He had more arm before he destroyed his shoulder. He was never a Jay Cutler, but without injury he easily could have been a Rich Gannon. In fact, when he had his amazing breakout in 2002, that's exactly what I thought he was- a young Rich Gannon.
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In every full season that he was healthy (of course that was an issue) Chad Pennington led his team to the playoffs - some of them coming after he destroyed his shoulder. That was with two different teams, neither of which were loaded with talent. He was a much better QB than people ever give him credit for being. People would rather call him "noodle arm" or "mr. glass", because it's funnier that way. I like the Gannon comparison.
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Absolutely. Really great QB. Could have been viewed as a Hasselbeck, Trent Green in their prime kind of QB- back half of the top 10- had his arm not gotten shot to hell. He was masterful at hiding and overcoming his limitations. After his shoulder got shot, though, his arm strength definitely was a limitation. He was capable of efficiently moving the football, but he could no longer constrain the defense or force them to defend the entire field. Every offense he was in would naturally be limited, no matter how efficient he was, simply because there were certain aspects the defense simply didn't have to respect. In fact, in that respect, he's far closer to Smith than to Kaep- hyper efficient, underrated, but makes a defense's job easier and an offense's job harder when he's on the field.Edit: Actually, now that the comparison has been made, I'd say the whole Smith/Kaepernick situation has a lot of similarities to Pennington/Henne.
 
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i like penninton and think it is too bad he never was healthy and that his shoulder got bamboozled like that he could have been a great one and on top of that i always thought he was a pretty good guy to so right on with that stuff brohans i am with you

 
Even Time Magazine has jumped on the controversy bandwagon:

On paper, the San Francisco 49ers quarterback battle that incumbent Alex Smith and challenger Colin Kaepernick have been waging since Smith sustained a concussion two weeks ago is almost entirely incomprehensible.

Smith is a seven-year veteran and former No. 1 overall pick who ranked third in the NFL in passer rating (104.1) and led the league in completion percentage (70%) at the time of his injury. Only three other quarterbacks in the last 30 years have finished the regular season with a completion percentage above 70%: Joe Montana, Steve Young and Drew Brees. The first two are 49ers legends who have already been enshrined in Canton, and the third is headed there as soon as his remarkable career ends.

Plus, Smith has won 20 of his last 25 starts and led the Niners to the NFC championship game last season. In that game, he threw two touchdowns, no interceptions and came within a pair of Kyle Williams fumbles of reaching Super Bowl XLVI. This is not the resume of someone who seems in jeopardy of losing his job.

Especially when his backup is a sophomore quarterback who was drafted in the middle of the second round and was better known for making plays with his legs than with his arm at Nevada.

And yet somehow, Smith’s concussion opened the door for Kaepernick. It’s largely because, in spite of his recent success and impressive numbers this season, Smith has always been seen as a competent game-manager at best. Though a No. 1 overall pick in 2005, Smith was never considered dynamic and has always had to fight—on more than one occasion, unsuccessfully—to hold on to his starting job.

As recently as this past summer, 49ers head coach Jim Harbaugh was wooing Peyton Manning and Smith seemed primed to receive little more than a ‘thank you’ on his way out of the Bay Area. Of course, Manning opted to sign with Denver and Smith returned to San Francisco, the only franchise he’s ever known. More importantly, he returned to the only system—which Harbaugh implemented upon his arrival last season—that has enabled Smith to achieve any level of sustained success.

After falling short against the Giants in the NFC Championship game last January, however, Harbaugh and offensive coordinator Greg Roman began to search for more dynamic offensive weapons. Despite losing out in the Manning Sweepstakes, Harbaugh still signed Giants castoff Mario Manningham and future Hall-of-Famer Randy Moss. Over the course of the nine games that Smith started, however, the pair combined for just 552 yards on 51 catches. In fact, their largest impact was stretching the field to open up the running game and short-to-mid-range passes.

Though the offensive had not reached the level of explosiveness that Harbaugh and Roman had sought, San Francisco—with a couple notable exceptions—was winning and Smith was improving upon his impressive 2011 campaign. And yet, Kaepernick was just too alluring for Harbaugh. In addition to being a gifted scrambler, Kaepernick’s arm is a cannon. So if Harbaugh and Roman wanted to feed opposing defenses a steady diet of long passing plays, Kaepernick was well-suited for the task.

On October 14, the Niners were struggling against the Giants. Down 10-3 and with Alex Smith already having been intercepted once, Harbaugh brought in Kaepernick in the final minute of the first half. The second-year quarterback—who up to this point had only attempted two passes all season—promptly fired a 36-yard strike to Manningham on his first throw. With Smith struggling (he would finish with no touchdowns and three picks), Harbaugh went back to Kaepernick several times in the second half. The Nevada grad finished the game four of seven for 82 yards.

Kaepernick didn’t make a throw the next week against the Seahawks, but when the Rams knocked Smith out of the game on November 11, Kaepernick came on and finished with 117 yards in the air and 66 more on the ground. Then, with Smith still suffering from concussion symptoms, Kaepernick led a 32-7 dismantling of the vaunted Bears defense on November 19, completing nearly 70% of his passes and throwing for two touchdown and no interceptions. When asked after the game who would start against the Saints six days later, Harbaugh said the Niners “usually tend to go with the guy with the hot hand.” And that’s how you start a quarterback controversy.

There’s really no precedent in the NFL—at least in recent memory—for what’s happening right now in San Francisco. A successful quarterback, coming off a 13-3 campaign and having the best season of his career, being so rapidly and thoroughly supplanted by a largely unheralded backup. Even though Drew Bledsoe had compiled some impressive stats before a similarly unproven Tom Brady replaced him in New England, Bledsoe was coming off a 5-11 season in 2000, and a 0-2 start in 2001, before he got hurt and lost his job.

Much of Harbaugh’s approach could be explained by one simple fact: he wants Kaepernick to be QB1. In spite of Smith’s impressive campaign, it’s an understandable desire. Harbaugh understands recent football history: under center for every Super Bowl champion team for the last nine years, there’s been a so-called ‘elite’ quarterback. Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. Even accounting for his recent success, Alex Smith just doesn’t quite fit into that group.

Of course, Colin Kaepernick doesn’t either. Not yet anyway. But someday—perhaps very soon—he might. At the least, Kaepernick gives Harbaugh the opportunity to run the offense he’s been yearning to run since leaving Stanford and Next Big Thing Andrew Luck—an offense he seems to believe is necessary for the 49ers to realize their full potential.

Harbaugh is hoping that Kaepernick can push San Francisco over the edge and into the Super Bowl. So far, the gamble looks pretty good.
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Kaep named the starter vs the Rams. I guess I was wrong thinking he would stick with Alex. For the record, Im glad Kaep is starting, I just thought Harbs might go with Smith for now.

All aboard the Kaep wagon!!!!

 
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'drummer said:
Bwah (Harbaugh) in a very short period of time is creating a QB environment for they to thrive.So the system is there, baked in, in both Bwah's legacy at Stanford to now what he is currently doing with the 49ers. So maybe Bwah isn't as crazy after all.
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This needs to stop right now. Please never refer to Harbaugh as "Bwah" again. TIA.
 
'drummer said:
'attaché case said:
'drummer said:
Bwah (Harbaugh) in a very short period of time is creating a QB environment for they to thrive.So the system is there, baked in, in both Bwah's legacy at Stanford to now what he is currently doing with the 49ers. So maybe Bwah isn't as crazy after all.
Click to expand...
This needs to stop right now. Please never refer to Harbaugh as "Bwah" again. TIA.
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I do what I please, thank you.
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Fair enough, but that is just horrible. "Harbs" is what I call him.
 
'drummer said:
'attaché case said:
'drummer said:
Bwah (Harbaugh) in a very short period of time is creating a QB environment for they to thrive.So the system is there, baked in, in both Bwah's legacy at Stanford to now what he is currently doing with the 49ers. So maybe Bwah isn't as crazy after all.
Click to expand...
This needs to stop right now. Please never refer to Harbaugh as "Bwah" again. TIA.
Click to expand...
I do what I please, thank you.
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No, he's right. It's terrible.
 
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