Wow, I read that as Arizona is expecting (counting on) him showing up rather than he has made his decision and he will show up. Definitely an important difference, I wonder which meaning was intended?
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QB Josh Rosen, MIN (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
Hankmoody
Footballguy
TL
R version - their current situation sucks, their coach wants a QB so he doesn't get fired?
ffmail4me
Footballguy
And the majority of our fanbase wants the coach, GM, and owner to get firedTL
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Maybe, and maybe. Obviously that story won’t be settled for awhile. IMO, given how hard it is to find “your guy” at QB...why not keep both?
Everything I've seen from Rosen tells me he either starts or will pout. I don't see keeping both as any option.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Murray has world class speed... so theres that...
Not even remotely close, nowhere close to National caliber speed.
Why keep talking about things you know nothing about?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
ffmail4me
Footballguy
Building from the line is crazy important no doubt, but can the Skins afford NOT to take a WR before round 3??? That's my biggest concern. They need a true #1 that can be impactful right away, not a project for down the road...
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Milkman
Footballguy
The draft is very deep with WR talent......imo Rosen is a frachise QB and I'd love to see what ge can do behind a dominant OL.
Mr. Peterson
Footballguy
Would he sit behind Keenum for some time if he goes to Redskins?
Interseptopus
Footballguy
I agree, but I'm curious what your definition of franchise qb is.
What player/s would you compare him to, not by his abilities but by his franchise qb potential (I realize these go hand in hand... I'm not asking for a player comparison, rather franchise value conparison)? A high level Brady/Brees/Rodgers type? Or a middle of the line Stafford/Cousins/Eli Manning type?
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Milkman
Footballguy
He has top 5 QB in the NFL ceiling imo. I don't see elite best QB ever ceiling but def think you can build a SB contender with him under center.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
That's great. I see him as a potential top 10 after his rookie year, but I saw top 5 when I drafted him. He's a cerebral quarterback, which I like a lot.
coachoneill
Footballguy
I'm not trying to argue he was good last year (because the whole offense wasn't), but I've been doing a deep dive on Gamepass. I'm a Rosen dynasty owner but could only subject myself to so much Cardinals football in season last year. Upon further review I think he acquitted himself much better than he's given credit for. Off the top of my head he had a couple of killer throws from the Chargers game, including one that Kirk flat out dropped. To be fair he also threw a ghastly pick to Derwin James in the flat. The real X factor in Rosen's development is where he ultimately gets traded. Just about anywhere would beat what the Cardinals rolled out there last season. If it is indeed the Redskins hard to get super excited long term.
I agree with you (and I'm not comparing Gruden to McVay because, duh), but Goff didn't show anything his rookie year and looks much better now. Point being that one's performance in his rookie year does not have to be indicitave of what he will do the rest of his career. That being said, I'm skeptical that a move from Arizona to Washington will boost Rosen's chances at success.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Right now, sure, they have no real WR talent, their OL was injured most of last season, and their RB situation is inconclusive.
What if the grab NKeal Harry round 2? Assuming they give up their 1st.
I could see the future being much brighter for him long term than you make it out to be. I agree, it's not the best place of all the rumored destinations, but it's not a wasteland either... depending on the draft.
coachoneill
Footballguy
You make a good point in that fantasy situations/supporting casts can be quickly turned around (in perception and or reality). I think part of my skepticism comes from my college coaching background. Granted Jay Gruden has produced some good fantasy offenses but he feels relatively milquetoast to me scheme wise. Granted Kingsbury could flame out tremendously, but as a Rosen owner I was excited to see what a non strictly "NFL" offense would look like in Arizona. Rosen probably not the guy to maximize true "triple option" type RPO's but I was curious to see how an Air Raid structured offense would look in the NFL.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Good point, I guess I didnt really look at the scheme.
However in at least one of my fantasy leagues: in 2016 and 2017, Cousins last two years with Washington he was QB5 both seasons
Now, scoring in that league is a little goofy... no penalties for INTs, so I am not sure where Cousins finished in other leagues, but he was a top 5 talent under Jay Gruden...
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kutta
Footballguy
I agree that QB's can improve. I just don't see how people can say he has top 5 potential and can win a SB.
Of course he can improve. He had a horrible season last year. Only way to go is up.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
As I showed above, Cousins had 2 top 5 seasons in my league (one in 2016 according to Fantasy Pros)
According to Fantasy Pros, Alex Smith was QB4 in 2017. 2015 Bortles and Palmer were QB4 and QB5.
Joe Flacco has won a superbowl. So has Foles.
I dont see it so ridiculous that Rosen could have a top 5 season, and/or could win a SB. Worse QBs than him (IMO) have done it.
If anything this history shows how worthless the QB position is in 1QB leagues
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kutta
Footballguy
Again, I know he was in a bad situation last year. But he was just really really bad.
Formatting sucks here, but the last number is QBR. Rosen is at the bottom of all qualifying QB's.
RK PLAYER PTS ADDED PASS RUN PENALTY TOTAL EPA QB PLAYS RAW QBR TOTAL QBR
1 Patrick Mahomes, KC 77.2 101.0 11.7 3.2 126.0 722 82.0 81.8
2 Drew Brees, NO 60.1 80.2 5.4 6.2 100.5 562 81.9 80.8
3 Mitchell Trubisky, CHI 39.3 43.1 22.1 3.8 80.3 565 72.8 73.0
4 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 53.5 89.3 8.7 5.1 113.5 762 73.0 71.7
5 Andrew Luck, IND 48.1 84.4 5.0 4.3 103.0 741 71.5 71.7
6 Tom Brady, NE 35.9 63.6 4.4 4.7 82.6 643 68.8 70.5
7 Philip Rivers, LAC 38.1 65.8 -0.9 1.3 79.1 595 71.2 70.0
8 Jameis Winston, TB 32.0 37.8 10.8 5.4 65.6 485 71.8 68.3
9 Matt Ryan, ATL 44.8 60.2 7.4 4.9 92.9 722 70.6 67.9
10 Jared Goff, LAR 29.9 60.8 0.6 4.4 79.9 665 65.4 65.9
11 Russell Wilson, SEA 25.1 32.0 11.0 2.6 69.0 571 65.1 65.6
12 Carson Wentz, PHI 21.2 39.8 1.8 3.1 58.5 488 64.9 64.3
13 Deshaun Watson, HOU 26.4 31.8 17.0 3.8 79.5 702 63.0 64.1
14 Kirk Cousins, MIN 21.8 57.3 -5.1 2.2 71.8 718 60.6 61.9
15 Andy Dalton, CIN 18.4 35.4 2.0 3.4 50.6 433 64.6 61.8
16 Aaron Rodgers, GB 14.3 25.1 17.8 3.2 70.0 737 56.8 60.4
17 Dak Prescott, DAL 17.1 35.1 12.2 2.1 71.7 693 58.6 57.7
18 Joe Flacco, BAL 11.0 30.1 2.9 4.6 43.4 441 58.7 57.3
19 Marcus Mariota, TEN 4.1 14.6 6.7 4.8 42.2 471 53.1 55.6
20 Cam Newton, CAR 13.3 41.7 8.4 0.0 62.6 629 57.4 55.6
21 Nick Mullens, SF 5.9 23.6 -2.8 1.8 29.0 334 56.2 54.2
22 Matthew Stafford, DET 1.7 25.8 4.2 4.2 49.2 647 50.9 53.8
23 Baker Mayfield, CLE 9.4 34.8 0.9 3.6 51.5 580 55.7 53.6
24 Josh Allen, BUF 2.9 -1.8 24.1 3.5 35.6 461 52.3 52.2
25 Eli Manning, NYG 2.3 30.2 2.0 2.4 54.8 684 51.2 51.6
26 Alex Smith, WSH 4.6 17.8 5.5 2.9 35.0 422 53.8 49.4
27 Derek Carr, OAK -1.2 27.3 2.5 0.2 50.8 669 49.3 49.0
28 Sam Darnold, NYJ -3.0 23.5 3.3 -1.1 36.6 510 47.9 48.4
29 Case Keenum, DEN -4.0 26.9 4.2 3.5 50.6 685 47.9 46.9
30 Blake Bortles, JAX -8.6 9.3 11.6 -1.6 30.5 515 44.1 45.8
31 Lamar Jackson, BAL -1.2 6.6 13.8 0.4 27.7 338 48.7 45.1
32 Ryan Tannehill, MIA -18.0 -6.3 3.6 0.8 13.4 363 33.1 35.4
33 Josh Rosen, ARI -35.3 -13.6 3.3 1.2 7.9 491 26.6 25.9
Formatting sucks here, but the last number is QBR. Rosen is at the bottom of all qualifying QB's.
RK PLAYER PTS ADDED PASS RUN PENALTY TOTAL EPA QB PLAYS RAW QBR TOTAL QBR
1 Patrick Mahomes, KC 77.2 101.0 11.7 3.2 126.0 722 82.0 81.8
2 Drew Brees, NO 60.1 80.2 5.4 6.2 100.5 562 81.9 80.8
3 Mitchell Trubisky, CHI 39.3 43.1 22.1 3.8 80.3 565 72.8 73.0
4 Ben Roethlisberger, PIT 53.5 89.3 8.7 5.1 113.5 762 73.0 71.7
5 Andrew Luck, IND 48.1 84.4 5.0 4.3 103.0 741 71.5 71.7
6 Tom Brady, NE 35.9 63.6 4.4 4.7 82.6 643 68.8 70.5
7 Philip Rivers, LAC 38.1 65.8 -0.9 1.3 79.1 595 71.2 70.0
8 Jameis Winston, TB 32.0 37.8 10.8 5.4 65.6 485 71.8 68.3
9 Matt Ryan, ATL 44.8 60.2 7.4 4.9 92.9 722 70.6 67.9
10 Jared Goff, LAR 29.9 60.8 0.6 4.4 79.9 665 65.4 65.9
11 Russell Wilson, SEA 25.1 32.0 11.0 2.6 69.0 571 65.1 65.6
12 Carson Wentz, PHI 21.2 39.8 1.8 3.1 58.5 488 64.9 64.3
13 Deshaun Watson, HOU 26.4 31.8 17.0 3.8 79.5 702 63.0 64.1
14 Kirk Cousins, MIN 21.8 57.3 -5.1 2.2 71.8 718 60.6 61.9
15 Andy Dalton, CIN 18.4 35.4 2.0 3.4 50.6 433 64.6 61.8
16 Aaron Rodgers, GB 14.3 25.1 17.8 3.2 70.0 737 56.8 60.4
17 Dak Prescott, DAL 17.1 35.1 12.2 2.1 71.7 693 58.6 57.7
18 Joe Flacco, BAL 11.0 30.1 2.9 4.6 43.4 441 58.7 57.3
19 Marcus Mariota, TEN 4.1 14.6 6.7 4.8 42.2 471 53.1 55.6
20 Cam Newton, CAR 13.3 41.7 8.4 0.0 62.6 629 57.4 55.6
21 Nick Mullens, SF 5.9 23.6 -2.8 1.8 29.0 334 56.2 54.2
22 Matthew Stafford, DET 1.7 25.8 4.2 4.2 49.2 647 50.9 53.8
23 Baker Mayfield, CLE 9.4 34.8 0.9 3.6 51.5 580 55.7 53.6
24 Josh Allen, BUF 2.9 -1.8 24.1 3.5 35.6 461 52.3 52.2
25 Eli Manning, NYG 2.3 30.2 2.0 2.4 54.8 684 51.2 51.6
26 Alex Smith, WSH 4.6 17.8 5.5 2.9 35.0 422 53.8 49.4
27 Derek Carr, OAK -1.2 27.3 2.5 0.2 50.8 669 49.3 49.0
28 Sam Darnold, NYJ -3.0 23.5 3.3 -1.1 36.6 510 47.9 48.4
29 Case Keenum, DEN -4.0 26.9 4.2 3.5 50.6 685 47.9 46.9
30 Blake Bortles, JAX -8.6 9.3 11.6 -1.6 30.5 515 44.1 45.8
31 Lamar Jackson, BAL -1.2 6.6 13.8 0.4 27.7 338 48.7 45.1
32 Ryan Tannehill, MIA -18.0 -6.3 3.6 0.8 13.4 363 33.1 35.4
33 Josh Rosen, ARI -35.3 -13.6 3.3 1.2 7.9 491 26.6 25.9
kutta
Footballguy
I'll agree that anything can happen. We can always disregard bad years and say, "well, other people have done it so this guy can too."
My point is that Rosen actually didn't show one thing that gave me hope that he can improve and be a top 5 QB. The only way we can say he may be really good is to make the "other people have done it so he can too" leap. Which we can do about any player at any time.
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coachoneill
Footballguy
Yea I think irrespective of particular scoring system, Cousins had several years where he was very viable. It might be too much to hope for that with Rosen on the team as currently constructed. Then again Gruden may be gone after this season either way. As a dynasty owner I just hope he lands some place where he's wanted and the coaching staff/front office is willing to build around him and let him take his lumps.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
Skins aren't giving up their fist. Already reported it would be their 2nd and a future mid round pick. So if anything Skins will hopefully draft a WR in the 1st, or at worst, 3rd round pick. I would be disappointed if they don't come away with at least 2 WRs when this draft is over. I am actually confident in Quinn in the slot, but Doctson and Richardson are depth not starters IMO.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i saw some stat about the Cardinals o-line awhile back. it was something like "opposing defenses in the backfield rate" and that for AZ it was worst in the league over recent years. this kind of stat - and i wish i could remember it - was not just about Rosen getting sacked a ton. it was about sustain blocks for run blocking and pass pro. Rosen may or may not be "top 5" in time but no one would look ready for the NFL under those circumstances. David Johnson has one single 100+ yard rushing game last year for cryin out loud. he had Fitz as the only reliable passing target. nevermind they ditched their OC midseason and turned it over to novice OC Byron Leftwich. this was a travesty of a team which is why they fired their head coach after one season. it was a disaster. who else can you say would be credible at the position under those circumstances?
my point is that you're not going to see much out of Rosen like that. you're better off looking at the college tape to see his potential than at the rookie tape. if you weren't a fan of his college tape then last season won't change your mind either.
kutta
Footballguy
Again, I agree last year was really bad for the Cards. And while the coaching was horrible, maybe some of the horribleness of this offense was due to the QB too.
He had a lot of weaknesses coming out of college - arm strength, decision making, and leadership questions being the big three, IMO. He did nothing last year to show he was past some of these concerns. I'm just not sure why people are making the leap that he has.
saintfool
Dead sexy
i'll put you in the camp that didn't like him at UCLA then? my point, put, is that you're not going to see *anything* - improvement or otherwise - under the catastrophic circumstances he played under last year. if the opposing defense is in the backfield on most plays before you complete the snap then what can anyone expect a play to be other than utter trash? i get the fact that he looked terrible but at the end of the day, there was a reason he looked terrible. change that somehow and you'll get a more accurate reading of his ability.
kutta
Footballguy
I get it. I don't know how else to express my thoughts on him.
We'll just agree to disagree on him. Time will tell.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Assuming the Cards deal him, gonna be a nice get for whoever gets him IMO.
Wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if a team with an established QB gets him
Wouldn't be surprised whatsoever if a team with an established QB gets him
saintfool
Dead sexy
Milkman
Footballguy
He literally might have had the worst OL of all time. He still flashed at times. I saw many throws I liked. Time will tell.
skinfanjon
Footballguy
Didn't like him last year coming out, like him even less now. Probably be seeing a lot of him as it seems a foregone conclusion he'll be a Redskin.
ffmail4me
Footballguy
It was said earlier and I felt same way, thought Goff was garbage after his first year. Oops.
I think he’s got to get a pass on that train wreck last year. skinfanjon
Footballguy
I know you're an optimist when it comes to the Skins (bless you, I did it for far too long), but few quarterbacks have made the 180 turn that Goff has. Are Gurley, Cooks, Woods, Kupp, and McVay coming with him?It was said earlier and I felt same way, thought Goff was garbage after his first year. Oops.
Every Rosen supporter correctly points out the trainwreck the Cards were last year, but how is Washington better? I don't see any David Johnson's or Larry Fitzgerald's over here. Head coach on his final notice, terrible leadership up top, no wide receivers worth mentioning at the moment, chronically injured (but talented, yes) offensive line...and he's going to flourish here?
His best bet would be to go the Rodgers route and sit behind Brees or Brady for a couple years. Then he might have a shot. If he comes to the Skins which it sure looks a slam dunk probability, he's going to look a whole lot like the guy he was last year.
skinfanjon
Footballguy
So we're making o-line excuses for Rosen but not David Johnson? I think Guice has a bright future but not very many folks would take him over DJ for the next couple years.
Also I'm fresh out of injury excuses for the Skins. We're injury prone at LT, RG, and RT with holes at LG and C to boot.
If he does indeed come to DC I'd bet a hefty sum he starts less than 32 games for us. 24 games seems more like the right over/under for that bet.
Interseptopus
Footballguy
Does David Johnson rely on pass protection?
Run blocking and pass blocking are two different things, correct? and OL are often good at one and not the other, correct?
skinfanjon
Footballguy
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