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Voter Suppression (1 Viewer)

Interesting poll with data around who would take the hit.

MLB
It's interesting all the way around.  As a rule, baseball players fall on the more conservative of the political scale, as do the fans.  But by the same token, a lot of conservative people don't like to mix politics and sports so not sure how much they'll really even care if the game moves.  To the average fan, it's just a different background on the television as to what ballpark the game is played in.

 
Georgia GOP legislators punish Delta by cancelling a tax break because it criticized their voter suppression billl.

GOP - champions of your first amendment rights!  

 
Yes and the US should pull all manufacturing out of China...GL

Not sure what Delta's calculus was in stepping into this.
I suspect that Delta has calculated that Georgia needs Delta more than Delta needs Georgia.

Personally, I am not a big fan of the idea of writing laws -- especially tax laws -- which are aimed at only one person (or one business). So, from that perspective I support the Republican plan to end the personalized tax break for Delta. Who knows -- maybe this will be the start of a wave of Republican-led efforts to end tax breaks for specific businesses? Capitalism should be based on merit and equal opportunity, but when the government puts its thumb on the scale, then the free market suffers.

 
I suspect that Delta has calculated that Georgia needs Delta more than Delta needs Georgia.

Personally, I am not a big fan of the idea of writing laws -- especially tax laws -- which are aimed at only one person (or one business). So, from that perspective I support the Republican plan to end the personalized tax break for Delta. Who knows -- maybe this will be the start of a wave of Republican-led efforts to end tax breaks for specific businesses? Capitalism should be based on merit and equal opportunity, but when the government puts its thumb on the scale, then the free market suffers.
I agree with this

And I'm hopeful this awakens some sort of corporate responsibility where the pittance they save on this tax credit just isn't worth keeping your mouth shut.

 
It's interesting all the way around.  As a rule, baseball players fall on the more conservative of the political scale, as do the fans.  But by the same token, a lot of conservative people don't like to mix politics and sports so not sure how much they'll really even care if the game moves.  To the average fan, it's just a different background on the television as to what ballpark the game is played in.
I think this generates enough money that a lot of people in Atlanta are not going to be happy.  If you owned a business or hotel downtown you probably have already invested a good portion in renovations .... and even if not, this was likely going to a top revenue year coming off 2020.

 
I think this generates enough money that a lot of people in Atlanta are not going to be happy.  If you owned a business or hotel downtown you probably have already invested a good portion in renovations .... and even if not, this was likely going to a top revenue year coming off 2020.
Of course, and as I stated it directly impacted my business, I had to write down revenues that went to the bottom line over this game.  So I'm not really happy about it but I'm not even a GA resident so not really anything I can do.  The point is when you take a financial shot at someone, the reaction isn't likely to be to acquiesce or come around to the other point of view. It does make it less likely I'll pay that renewal on the next contract just to not have to deal with all the BS so I guess to whatever small extent that contract represents it hurts the Braves, MLB, MLBPA on spending, etc.  

 
Of course, and as I stated it directly impacted my business, I had to write down revenues that went to the bottom line over this game.  So I'm not really happy about it but I'm not even a GA resident so not really anything I can do.  The point is when you take a financial shot at someone, the reaction isn't likely to be to acquiesce or come around to the other point of view. It does make it less likely I'll pay that renewal on the next contract just to not have to deal with all the BS so I guess to whatever small extent that contract represents it hurts the Braves, MLB, MLBPA on spending, etc.  
Historically speaking, these types of actions seem to cause change.  It usually just takes a few years.

https://www.talkingchop.com/2021/4/3/22364954/atlanta-braves-2021-mlb-all-star-game-moving-major-league-baseball-it-was-the-right-decision

 
Interesting poll with data around who would take the hit.

MLB
I would take that poll with a grain of salt.  The real data I would look at is the television and attendance numbers.  I think a certain group of people might grouse about sports/movies getting involved in politics, and they might even answer a poll like this by stating they watch less, but the proof will be in the television and attendance numbers (once they can correctly measure these post-Covid).

 
Maybe we're looking at this problem all wrong.  A proposal:

In order to cast a vote at a state-run voting precinct you have to show an ID.

But each county will also offer "Voting Shows" where anyone can vote without registering or showing an ID.

 
Maybe we're looking at this problem all wrong.  A proposal:

In order to cast a vote at a state-run voting precinct you have to show an ID.

But each county will also offer "Voting Shows" where anyone can vote without registering or showing an ID.
What do you mean by the voting shows?

I would auto-register everyone when they obtain a drivers license, not sure why we wouldn't (then again I'm not sure why a normal mail drop can't be used for mail in ballots).

On the ID, just to be specific for Georgia I have read that its not limited to some form of government ID, its basically anything with an address and your name.

 
Historically speaking, these types of actions seem to cause change.  It usually just takes a few years.

https://www.talkingchop.com/2021/4/3/22364954/atlanta-braves-2021-mlb-all-star-game-moving-major-league-baseball-it-was-the-right-decision
Oh I'm not disagreeing that it can but that's not really the part I care about.  Financially speaking when politics and sports intersect, it's caused disruptions such as in this case for Atlanta, for that ACC Championship game in Charlotte, etc.  It's not good for someone investing in it for business purposes as I do and when it happens it's probably not somewhere I need to be putting my money for business reasons, nothing to do with political.  My reaction when I lose money to something like this isn't to double down but to just pull the plug.  The question will come as it did from the Charlotte Sports Foundation following the ACC issues of "Why are you not supporting us anymore?" and it's not the political answer, it's the business one that they could do nothing about.  There are usually other peripheral issues involved as well but these things just tend to be something that in business I don't like to deal with.

I just would suggest you research the work the Braves have done in the Atlanta community through various works with Hank Aaron in minority neighborhoods and diversity programs and draw your own conclusions.  I linked just one article about that earlier in the thread (ETA: it was actually in the ASG thread) that was written before this whole controversy started.  Just don't read today's headlines and be distracted by the MLB and MLBPA.  I don't think you'll find an organization that has been shy about those issues if you truly care about them.  And again, I'm not involved with them for those reasons.  But just be aware, when you read opinion pieces such as this talkingchop guy you linked, he's not telling you about all the charity work the organization has done and money they've donated to such causes.  He's interested in getting clicks, follows, likes, mentions by national media, etc.  By punishing the organization, and let's be totally transparent and honest that they are the ones financially impacted the most, they will have less now to do that work with that they've done in the past.  So essentially here the people in favor of this are casting their lot with Rob Manfred, MLB, and the MLBPA over an organization that has already done work in this area.  If you stop to consider that I think it should at least give you pause.

 
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Maybe we're looking at this problem all wrong.  A proposal:

In order to cast a vote at a state-run voting precinct you have to show an ID.

But each county will also offer "Voting Shows" where anyone can vote without registering or showing an ID.
How about we just make everyone show an ID regardless?  I mean, an overwhelming majority (72%) want voter id, including democrats:

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1377958696899256326

No ID, no vote.  Seems like the will of the people.  You guys are clearly in the minority here.

 
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And in some really strange coincidence 36 states (72%) have some sort of voter ID requirements. 
The poll said *photo* id. In my state, a utility bill is enough. It's just to show you live there. According to Wiki only 7 states require photo id, and 10 more request it.

 
The poll said *photo* id. In my state, a utility bill is enough. It's just to show you live there. According to Wiki only 7 states require photo id, and 10 more request it.
From article I linked earlier

Under the new Georgia law, voters who do not have a state-issued ID card can also provide a copy of a utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, or other government document that shows their name and address.

 
It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.

When the coronavirus pandemic hit last year, Georgia’s secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, a Republican, mailed absentee ballot applications to every registered voter in the state ahead of its June primary election. This led to absentee voting by record numbers of Georgians.

When Mr. Raffensperger didn’t mail applications again for the general election, several local government agencies did so, particularly in Georgia’s large urban counties — a move that the state has now made illegal. With the loss of automatically mailed applications, some voters will invariably not request ballots, since the applications also served as a reminder to people that they were eligible to vote.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html#link-75c1f815

 
For the 2020 election, there were 94 drop boxes across the four counties that make up the core of metropolitan Atlanta: Fulton, Cobb, DeKalb and Gwinnett. The new law limits the same four counties to a total of, at most, 23 drop boxes, based on the latest voter registration data. The number could be lower depending on how many early-voting sites the counties provide.

 
Maybe we're looking at this problem all wrong.  A proposal:

In order to cast a vote at a state-run voting precinct you have to show an ID.

But each county will also offer "Voting Shows" where anyone can vote without registering or showing an ID.
I see what you did here. 

 
For the 2020 election, there were 94 drop boxes across the four counties that make up the core of metropolitan Atlanta: Fulton, Cobb, DeKalb and Gwinnett. The new law limits the same four counties to a total of, at most, 23 drop boxes, based on the latest voter registration data. The number could be lower depending on how many early-voting sites the counties provide.
I don't see the problem here.  :shrug:

What did they do BEFORE the pandemic?  What was the drop box count pre-pandemic? 

I'm getting the feeling they DID NOT have 94 drop boxes pre-pandemic and now suddenly it's "VOTER SUPPRESSION" because you're not getting 94 drop boxes again when pre-pandemic it was less than 94 and it was just fine. 

 
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Yenrub said:
It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.

When the coronavirus pandemic hit last year, Georgia’s secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, a Republican, mailed absentee ballot applications to every registered voter in the state ahead of its June primary election. This led to absentee voting by record numbers of Georgians.

When Mr. Raffensperger didn’t mail applications again for the general election, several local government agencies did so, particularly in Georgia’s large urban counties — a move that the state has now made illegal. With the loss of automatically mailed applications, some voters will invariably not request ballots, since the applications also served as a reminder to people that they were eligible to vote.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html#link-75c1f815
And? Why do we need millions of absentee ballots printed and hanging out there that will never be used? Not only is it obviously a waste of resources but it's potential for voter fraud having that many blank ballots waiting for someone to fill them in needing only a signature to become valid. 

If people want to vote, they will find a way whether it's requesting a ballot or showing up at the polls. Insulting part of the population by saying they are too lazy or stupid to even remember to vote is not proof of voter suppression.

 
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And? Why do we need millions of absentee ballots printed and hanging out there that will never be used? Not only is it obviously a waste of resources but it's potential for voter fraud having that many blank ballots waiting for someone to fill them in needing only a signature to become valid. 

If people want to vote, they will find a way whether it's requesting a ballot or showing up at the polls. Insulting part of the population by saying they are too lazy or stupid to even remember to vote is not proof of voter suppression.
It says absentee ballot APPLICATIONS. So there wouldn’t be millions of absentee BALLOTS printed.

Also the new voter ID portion applies to the absentee BALLOTS, the person will need to submit their driver’s license number (or other acceptable ID) with the BALLOT

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Maybe we're looking at this problem all wrong.  A proposal:

In order to cast a vote at a state-run voting precinct you have to show an ID.

But each county will also offer "Voting Shows" where anyone can vote without registering or showing an ID.
Will water be provided? 

 
It says absentee ballot APPLICATIONS. So there wouldn’t be millions of absentee BALLOTS printed.

Also the new voter ID portion applies to the absentee BALLOTS, the person will need to submit their driver’s license number (or other acceptable ID) with the BALLOT
My mistake then. Still why print millions of applications if only a couple hundred thousand are needed. Mail in ballots should go way down this next cycle so providing applications as needed makes a lot more fiscal sense. And I'm not sure what the problem with the second part is. 

 
My mistake then. Still why print millions of applications if only a couple hundred thousand are needed. Mail in ballots should go way down this next cycle so providing applications as needed makes a lot more fiscal sense. And I'm not sure what the problem with the second part is. 
Why make it illegal though?  The state run by R can clearly decide not to do this. This is the state saying "Know your place Fulton County" and making it impossible for them to use their own money to do this. A bunch of D in a D led city are being prevented from the D gov't providing a service they want.

 
BladeRunner said:
I don't see the problem here.  :shrug:

What did they do BEFORE the pandemic?  What was the drop box count pre-pandemic? 

I'm getting the feeling they DID NOT have 94 drop boxes pre-pandemic and now suddenly it's "VOTER SUPPRESSION" because you're not getting 94 drop boxes again when pre-pandemic it was less than 94 and it was just fine. 
They are putting an arbitrary limit on something that was not limited before in order to make voting more difficult. How is that not "VOTER SUPPRESSION"?

 
Sea Duck said:
I suspect that Delta has calculated that Georgia needs Delta more than Delta needs Georgia.
Well this is wrong.

I suspect it has more to do with their ESG score.  Straight virtue signeling.

 
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Yenrub said:
It’s now illegal for election officials to mail out absentee ballot applications to all voters.

When the coronavirus pandemic hit last year, Georgia’s secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, a Republican, mailed absentee ballot applications to every registered voter in the state ahead of its June primary election. This led to absentee voting by record numbers of Georgians.

When Mr. Raffensperger didn’t mail applications again for the general election, several local government agencies did so, particularly in Georgia’s large urban counties — a move that the state has now made illegal. With the loss of automatically mailed applications, some voters will invariably not request ballots, since the applications also served as a reminder to people that they were eligible to vote.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/02/us/politics/georgia-voting-law-annotated.html#link-75c1f815
Yenrub said:
For the 2020 election, there were 94 drop boxes across the four counties that make up the core of metropolitan Atlanta: Fulton, Cobb, DeKalb and Gwinnett. The new law limits the same four counties to a total of, at most, 23 drop boxes, based on the latest voter registration data. The number could be lower depending on how many early-voting sites the counties provide.
I'm noticing a lot of conflicting coverage out there about what's actually in the Georgia legislation and what isn't.  Are these two examples the kind of thing that people are upset about?  Because neither seems like a particularly big deal or even very interesting.

(I get why the "no food and no water" thing has people upset.  I also get the "electioneering" angle -- it seems like there should be a better way of balancing out those two competing concerns, namely by not having it so that people are standing in line so long that they need sustenance).

 
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They are putting an arbitrary limit on something that was not limited before in order to make voting more difficult. How is that not "VOTER SUPPRESSION"?
It happened once before.   Last election.   And it was a changing of the rules non legislatively.   Changes in election law are the sole purview of the legislature.   

THAT'S HOW!

 
For example, okay we go from 94 drop boxes down to 23.  So what?  I'm allowed to pop my ballot in my own mailbox, right?  (If not, that would be a real problem and I would change my mind on this point, but nobody's saying that).

 
For example, okay we go from 94 drop boxes down to 23.  So what?  I'm allowed to pop my ballot in my own mailbox, right?  (If not, that would be a real problem and I would change my mind on this point, but nobody's saying that).
My guess is the reason they are most upset about the drop box reductions and the no food and water handouts is because they realized how successful holding voting events can be. Fire up the BBQ and hold an event, right by the drop box.

 
For example, okay we go from 94 drop boxes down to 23.  So what?  I'm allowed to pop my ballot in my own mailbox, right?  (If not, that would be a real problem and I would change my mind on this point, but nobody's saying that).
Wait they can be put in regular mailbox?

 
My guess is the reason they are most upset about the drop box reductions and the no food and water handouts is because they realized how successful holding voting events can be. Fire up the BBQ and hold an event, right by the drop box.
I’m guessing that the post office fiasco of 2020 also plays a part in the push back on drop box reduction.

Also the way that part is written, the drop box reduction is likely to only happen in a few counties , most other countries will probably not be affected 

 
They are putting an arbitrary limit on something that was not limited before in order to make voting more difficult. How is that not "VOTER SUPPRESSION"?
How many boxes did they have before?  Did anyone count?

I guess what I'm getting at is if they had, say, 30 boxes previously then NOT having 94 is NOT voter suppression.

 
How many boxes did they have before?  Did anyone count?

I guess what I'm getting at is if they had, say, 30 boxes previously then NOT having 94 is NOT voter suppression.
I honestly don't understand what the problem would be if the dropped down to zero boxes.  Maybe I'm missing something obvious -- it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last -- but so what if they reduce the number of drop boxes?  Everybody already has their own private drop box at the end of their driveway.  It's hard to get any more convenient than that.  

Edit: Seriously, if I was to say "What do you want?  Do you want a government worker to come to your individual residence and pick up your ballot personally?" people would take that as some kind of sarcastic attempt at a strawman.  But those government workers literally exist right now.  They literally do come by my individual residence six days a week to pick up stuff for me.  What do I care whether somebody installs a drop box three blocks away vs. six blocks away when I never have to set foot past my own driveway?

 
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I honestly don't understand what the problem would be if the dropped down to zero boxes.  Maybe I'm missing something obvious -- it wouldn't be the first time and it won't be the last -- but so what if they reduce the number of drop boxes?  Everybody already has their own private drop box at the end of their driveway.  It's hard to get any more convenient than that.  
Right?  I don't get it either.

The problem is that the left believes you can never go back down below what you previously had.  It's absurd. If I get a bonus of 5K one year and then the next year it's 3K it's not a "EMPLOYEE SUPPRESSION" issue.  it's as if they think the new floor is 5K until you get more than 5K - than THAT's the new floor.

I just think they want to relive the 60's all over again - gotta' have a cause so if there isn't one we need to make one up fast!

 
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How many boxes did they have before?  Did anyone count?

I guess what I'm getting at is if they had, say, 30 boxes previously then NOT having 94 is NOT voter suppression.
According to this site https://www.fultoncountyga.gov/services/voting-and-elections/absentee-ballot-box 

(there is a link to a PDF that lists all of the locations for Fulton county on the page) 

There were 36 drop box locations in Fulton county alone for the last election.

The new law now says there will be 23 in Fulton, Cobb, DeKalb and Gwinnett counties combined

 
According to this site https://www.fultoncountyga.gov/services/voting-and-elections/absentee-ballot-box 

(there is a link to a PDF that lists all of the locations for Fulton county on the page) 

There were 36 drop box locations in Fulton county alone for the last election.

The new law now says there will be 23 in Fulton, Cobb, DeKalb and Gwinnett counties combined
I appreciate the link.  :thumbup:

As per the conversation with @IvanKaramazov above, this doesn't really appear to be an issue.  Why can't they go down?  Why does the new floor have to be 94 boxes?  Don't they have a mailbox at the end of their driveway?

Why do "things' always have to go up and can NEVER go down?  How did people survive 10, 20, 30, 40, 50+ years ago?

 
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I think we make assumptions about people that don’t always apply. Not everybody has a property, or a regular address, or proper ID. 
Then that's on them.  :shrug:

If you can't AT LEAST get an ID then you're the problem, not the system.

I'm betting that if we said "Come get an ID and we'll give you $20" how many people without ID will find a way to get an ID?

 
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