Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
Why are President Trump's Tax Returns Important? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter supermike80
- Start date
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
The NYT has dropped Part II.
Trump golf courses have lost 315 million dollars.
The year "The Apprentice" debuted, Trump reported to the IRS 89.9 million in losses.
Trump golf courses have lost 315 million dollars.
The year "The Apprentice" debuted, Trump reported to the IRS 89.9 million in losses.
The NYT has released a lot of information and will be releasing more.
It can't release the returns without Trump's permission. Do you think his permission will be forthcoming? Would you like it to be?
No. It's really easy to pay nothing in income taxes -- just don't make any money. The goal for most businessmen, though, usually includes making a profit.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Donald Trump the “successful businessman” is a fraud, he was making his money from from The Apprentice, not his hotels or country clubs.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Are his tax returns not "proof" enough for you or is it that you believe they are made up? There's an easy way to completely destroy the credibility of the media once and for all. It would be Trump's greatest accomplishment while in office actually. Wonder why he isn't doing that.
The Commish
Footballguy
Mile High
Footballguy
Exactly. That's why I'm leaning the Times story is probably true. It would be easy to prove it's not.Are his tax returns not "proof" enough for you or is it that you believe they are made up? There's an easy way to completely destroy the credibility of the media once and for all. It would be Trump's greatest accomplishment while in office actually. Wonder why he isn't doing that.
No matter what you think of MSM - the New York Times does not publish this story, unless they are 100% convinced the information and documents are legitimate - and that their source has a legal reason to have the documents.
Having said that - and without seeing the documents themselves - some things could be down to interpretation. The numbers speak for themselves, but how Trump and his accountants arrived at those numbers is where the real story lies - and where Trump could be in a little hot water, even without the disputed tax refund.
If I had a guess, I think Trump will go to his deathbed fighting tax and bank fraud allegations. Its kind of murky, which is why there may never be a resolution - just look at his audit, and how long that has taken. The fraud allegations would take twice as long to prove/resolve.
Maybe.
But, golf is in decline around the country. So, it does not shock me that these courses are losing money.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Simply put...no matter the wrongdoing, his taxes and fake wealth won't matter to those who support him. Just as allegations of sexual misconduct don't matter to them. Just as his shady pre-election dealings with Russia won't matter. Just as his actions with Hunter Biden/Ukraine won't matter. Just as the mountain of lies don't matter...just as everything that would have sunk any previous president don't matter.
What I will never understand...is how "owning the libs" or whatever phenomena about how much you don't like the democrats...why this man? Why this guy who is almost the antithesis of a Christian in how he has lived his life...why this man, who is also barely anything resembling what a conservative is/was...why is he the hill to die on?
What I will never understand...is how "owning the libs" or whatever phenomena about how much you don't like the democrats...why this man? Why this guy who is almost the antithesis of a Christian in how he has lived his life...why this man, who is also barely anything resembling what a conservative is/was...why is he the hill to die on?
dawgtrails
Footballguy
So maybe just come out and say that it matters not what shady/illegal/immoral/unethical/etc actions he takes because we got 3 conservative justices
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
This is a very vaguely-worded question, but the answer is yes. And this is what Trump did to generate massive carryover losses that he was able to use for close to 20 years. That fact isn't new though - this was known from the other tax expose from a few years ago.moleculo said:
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
What do state and local property taxes have to do with federal income taxes?tonydead said:
sho nuff
Footballguy
Yes...unwavering support no matter what.
I have heard about 3 appointments...is that supposed to impress me that he did that? Or do I understand the first was a gift by McConnel, the last just the timing of when RGB passed away.
Any Republican would have gotten that done...anyone. And as much as people complain about how bad Hillary's campaign was...seems just about any of the GOP candidates from 2016 should have also won that election and gotten that done.
So yes...die on...the fact that many supported him even in the primaries with the same fervor...anyone would have gotten that done.
What do you think those appointments are going to do overall for the country? Be honest. Do you think Roe v Wade is going away? Did you think guns were going to be taken away? What would 3 milquetoast Justices Hillary would have had to have picked to get through this GOP Senate have done so badly(well, we know she would have only gotten 2 at best as Mitch wouldn't have allowed this 3rd appointment...even if RGB retired as late as last December)?
sho nuff
Footballguy
Instead of 2...maybe 3 moderate justices (because you know Hillary would not have been able to go anywhere but the middle with Mitch in charge of the Senate.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
That's really the main takeaway from all of this. None of what the NYT is saying should really be news to anyone - don't get me wrong, it's still news and should be reported, but it's not a surprise. Nothing really in the article jumps out to me as tax fraud, except arguably disguised gift consulting fees paid to family members, which is what his father did for him. But there's not nearly enough info on a tax return to come to that conclusion. The rest of the deductions, minimal income tax - Trump isn't alone in that regard, and those deductions are available to everyone else.BobbyLayne said:
In all, it just paints a picture of a failed businessman. He's got a history of "loser" investments, and it sounds like he's got some more now with these golf courses. He's never been particularly good at business, and this is just par for the course, pun intended.
Last edited by a moderator:
Workhorse
Footballguy
High school classmate of mine who just retired from active duty in the military posted this on Facebook this am:
For those tracking the Trump financials and tax reporting regardless if you “believe” them or not or if it is justified or not, I just want to say that when I, and many of my fellow military folks here on Facebook and beyond, applied for an “upper level” security clearance.. we all remember having to divulge our detailed finances including any adverse or foreign financials... If we owed taxes of .01 or more, no chance of a clearance.
For those that do not know, the reason for financial disclosure for a clearance is specifically related to how susceptible you are to foreign influence by monetary means... could they buy you for information essentially...
Why does the Commander in Chief NOT have to? Why is President Trump the first not to and now that some info has “come to light” why does he not lay the cards on the table to tell reporters where they can stick it?
I’m asking about the Presidential financials so please try not to deflect... I am looking for real answers to this question... for ANY President.
For those tracking the Trump financials and tax reporting regardless if you “believe” them or not or if it is justified or not, I just want to say that when I, and many of my fellow military folks here on Facebook and beyond, applied for an “upper level” security clearance.. we all remember having to divulge our detailed finances including any adverse or foreign financials... If we owed taxes of .01 or more, no chance of a clearance.
For those that do not know, the reason for financial disclosure for a clearance is specifically related to how susceptible you are to foreign influence by monetary means... could they buy you for information essentially...
Why does the Commander in Chief NOT have to? Why is President Trump the first not to and now that some info has “come to light” why does he not lay the cards on the table to tell reporters where they can stick it?
I’m asking about the Presidential financials so please try not to deflect... I am looking for real answers to this question... for ANY President.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Shows in his handling of trade issues as well...which is why it is news. Because it goes beyond the suspicions many had about him business wise and shows in black and white how bad he is at these deals. And he sold himself on being successuful in that way...in the end, that was all part of the con. And people still believe it...
Even with this they will believe he is some great businessman...even with seeing how little he knows about financial issues (tariffs and so on)...people still think he is great at it all.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Not a tax guy...
Every paycheck I get has federal income tax taken out, just like nearly every person. Then come the end of the year, my accountant adds up all my other income, subtracts all the deductions, and I generally owe a few thousand more.
How does it work for the super wealthy? Do they generally not get a "paycheck" every two weeks? Do they live off interest from money in the bank? Or put all their expenses on one giant credit card? Then come the new year, their accountants do the same thing only they find a hell of a lot more subtractions in their math?
Seems foolish/ridiculous that these ultra wealthy folks can benefit from spending millions per year on their lavish lifestyle, yet come away as having next to know income for the year.
Every paycheck I get has federal income tax taken out, just like nearly every person. Then come the end of the year, my accountant adds up all my other income, subtracts all the deductions, and I generally owe a few thousand more.
How does it work for the super wealthy? Do they generally not get a "paycheck" every two weeks? Do they live off interest from money in the bank? Or put all their expenses on one giant credit card? Then come the new year, their accountants do the same thing only they find a hell of a lot more subtractions in their math?
Seems foolish/ridiculous that these ultra wealthy folks can benefit from spending millions per year on their lavish lifestyle, yet come away as having next to know income for the year.
All the tax codes apply the same to everyone. There arent two sets of rules, maybe that's where you are misunderstanding. For your example - you do know you have control over how much you get taken out of your paycheck each week right?
The Z Machine
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
x 100I'm not faulting him for paying a mere $750....that's a tax code issue. If people are pissed about that, how about electing people to change the tax code to fix it. That's a different issue from Trump's inability to run a business. That is a pillar of his "appeal" allegedly and that is now being shown to be a significant exaggeration (at best). What DOES concern me, and concerns me with any person in a position to lead the country is monetary debt and who the debtors are. That's not a new concern in concept for me. This is the first President that it's actually been a potential factor for though.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
With all due respect, do you understand how state and local property tax deductions work with regard to things like AMT, the former Pease limitations, and the like?
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
dawgtrails
Footballguy
Yes I know that. And if I reduced my withholding I would owe a lot more than 750 at the end of the year
The Z Machine
Footballguy
You shoulda gone into high end real estate that loses money while writing off a lot of personal expenses as business expenses. That way, you could fund your lavish lifestyle while paying no taxes.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Generally, ultra wealthy individuals are not going to derive most of their income from a W-2. The actual structure will vary depending on the person.
Someone like Donald Trump likely has hundreds, if not thousands, of companies for various purposes - and this is very normal for wealthy people. There are various income streams from these companies which end up in some capacity on his personal tax return, either via pass-through taxation, corporate dividends, etc. It's impossible to paint the full picture without, you know.....seeing a tax return,
The Commish
Footballguy
You highlight one of the main reasons I always chuckle at "Income tax decrease" when the GOP trots it out there. The super wealthy aren't being taxed on what's classified as income in our tax code. You want to see them squirm start talking about capital gains tax, inheritance taxes, corporate taxes and wealth taxes. Any time either party starts messing with "income tax rates" it almost always ends up in a direct impact to lower/middle class incomes with little to no impact on the wealthy. You will hear people argue that there is one tax code for all of us, and technically that's true. However, since it's generally income driven and many of the larger loopholes are in areas of investment (where less than 60% of the country have enough money to participate) those don't apply to a majority of Americans in any meaningful way. Those people are basically saying to the $10 hourly employee, "Hey, if you had $25K laying around you can take advantage of these tax breaks too"....it's completely unhelpful if not nonsensical.
Last edited by a moderator:
Todem
Footballguy
The real issue at hand is not the taxes.....it is the sheer amount of debt and who he owes it to.GoBirds said:Just saw the Forbes article where it calls out Trump deducting interest on loans and using loss carry forwards....which are all legal and done by any business. Must be a slow news week, feels like groundhogs day.
All that needs to be disclosed to the American Public. A clear appearance of a conflict of interest in terms of foreign policy exists here. If people can’t understand that then I do not know what to say.
When you are being hired for a job your credit report is pulled and your background is throughly researched to see how much money you owe and to determine if your a risk. If you are desperate, or will your judgement be clouded under the pressure of massive amounts of debt you carry.
We have to hold our Commander and Chief to those types of standards yet this guy....this so called President refuses to disclose his tax returns. Why? Because we will see the enormous amount of personel foreign debt he really has. And of course the insane amount of or lack of amount of federal taxes he has paid.
Those defending him....on not paying taxes....get a grip. Really get a freaking grip on reality.
November 3rd can’t get here soon enough.
Last edited by a moderator:
Are you a business owner? Did your business make money this year? There are a whole lot of businesses, small, medium, large, that aren't going to pay any taxes at all next year. Zero. Many of them already filing for bankruptcy.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
I have a small side business. That is the source of my extra income and the reason I owe some extra money to the feds on top of my normal withholdings.
If I paid no taxes in that it would mean I had no income from that and well, that would suck.
I am not trying to reduce my income to zero to avoid paying taxes. My side business outs about 30K into my pocket and I am grateful for that.
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
I have never understood this. Would a different Republican leader have had less appointments? Are we giving Trump credit for good timing with justices that retired and died on his watch? It baffles me that what some consider his biggest accomplishment comes with no effort or leadership on his part. Just dumb luck.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
This is why financial information about presidential candidates needs to be released to the public though.
Skoo
Footballguy
To be fair, while what you said is true, it still might be his biggest accomplishment.
What else has he actually accomplished? Tax cuts for the rich? Another one any Republican President would have done.
BroadwayG
Footballguy
Apparently you can just give that 30k to someone in your family and write it off as consulting.
A different republican likely looses to Hillary and thus the source of angst. I chose the SCOTUS appointments in that post because they are the most obvious to illustrate my point, not because they are the only thing that matters.
GoBirds
Footballguy
From the article I saw it looked like his debt level was very low relative to his real estate assets owned, are you seeing that he’s over leveraged/distressed and making decisions based on that? Would seem to be rare in this environment, real estate is at all time highs with investors desperate for yield.
I think you are right on lack of taxes paid, I assume he took advantage of loss carry forward as most businesses do when they dump bad investments. That tax rule has been around awhile and helped us survive 2008.
Money laundering operations report inflated earnings on paper, not huge losses.Workhorse said:
GoBirds
Footballguy
Tax laws have been roughly the same for quite awhile, were you worried about this before or just a Trump thing? Not sure you have a handle on it but would review tax laws, would be curious specifically what laws you are seeing proof he is breaking ?
Skoo
Footballguy
Well, I think you answered your own question.
The election is the clearance process and to be effective - the voters should demand better background checks before voting. When you vote for someone who does not disclose these issues, you are, in effect, saying - "Meh, I don't really care about national security."
Todem
Footballguy
I know he took advantage of it. And he has every right to use whatever tax laws he can as we all do.
What is infuriating and highly shady and has red flags all over the place....is the simple fact he refuses to disclose his tax returns to the very people he serves.
The American Public and citizens of our country.
He simply has no respect for the office and to us as citizens. Painfully obvious.
Disclose them Mr President. What are you afraid of?
Last edited by a moderator:
Similar threads
