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RB Clyde Edwards-Helaire, KC (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter BigTex
- Start date
I-ROK
Footballguy
I-ROK
Footballguy
But did people draft him in redraft at 1.05 or 1.01 in rookie drafts for a between the 10s and RB2 production (rb20)?
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
No. I will admit I thought he'd show a bit more power based on how he looked at LSU but otherwise I've still been impressed by him. I would have liked to have seen more usage in the passing game, and Bell could now surely cut into that.
I took him at 1.01 in a dynasty rookie draft and the only other player I would consider over him now still is Ceedee Lamb. Like I said this hurts his value this year for sure, but I don't think it buries him by any means. I actually see the RB pie volume increasing based on the way defenses have been playing the Chiefs - that's not to say CEH's role increases of course, Bell will pick up that slack,
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I-ROK
Footballguy
I agree Lamb is probably 1.01 in a draft today
CEH has had some nice moments but he’s largely disappointed on delivering on his hype- especially the Westbrook comp. Bell is a 1 year hurdle for CEH, but I guess if I had any shares I’d be pessimistic that they wouldn’t do the same to him next year, or draft another RB. They made this move/felt they needed to make this move following 5 games of CEH as a bell cow- that is the most alarming to me. Maybe Bell is going to come in and serve as mostly a COP back, but seems like the other way around, at least on the surface.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That's all just your spin on it though since it confirms your bias* about CEH from the beginning.
Bell all of a sudden became available and good teams like to add talent when they can. This does not have to be a reflection on what they think of CEH - who has performed well. I expected this to be a two back system from the beginning - anyone remember that Damien Williams was there? Bell replaces now Damien Williams because Darrell Williams has actually looked horrible thus far. I'll fully admit that if Bell has any juice left he can end up being the larger part of the committee but right now that's unknown.
* and by bias I only mean you were down on him as a prospect and you're looking for confirmation of that, nothing more than that - although your incessant jabs (i.e. throwing Wesbrook back in people's faces is a bit childish).
rockaction
Footballguy
I still, despite what I think and what I see out of CEH, would exercise restraint before getting all drastic. There are no pianos falling out of windows, unless they're falling onto Le'Veon's back, given the way he looked with the Jets. Perhaps that's endemic to the Jets, though. We just don't know yet.
Manster
Footballguy
We know what Bell was on a good team......then he toiled away on a horrible jets team......and now he has a legit opportunity on the defending SB champion.......that's the kind of thing that can really motivate a guy.
The only real question is how much he has left in the tank. We know most RB's don't age well.
We are all speculating here, but I find it hard to believe that Bell won't have a very meaningful roll in KC as soon as he's up to speed.....I'd bet he will be moved around like they did in Pittsburgh......why wouldn't they utilize his pass catching capability? Maybe we do see plenty of sets with him lined at receiver and CEH in the backfield.....Reid is a genius at pressuring D's with his weapons.
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I-ROK
Footballguy
Not intending for Westbrook mention to be a jab. It was one of the reasons his hype was inflated though. Go back and read those who defended the hype. It was one of the first things they went to along with his draft capital when many others were expressing caution from drafting an unproven rookie rb at 1.05. Also the fact that the RB for Reid has had x number of RB1 finishes in however many years. He hasn’t looked like Westbrook at all. That’s a disappointment
I find it interesting that the narrative seems to be as you’ve said above, “well Damien Williams was there when they drafted CEH so it’s not a complete lack of confidence that they got Bell.” Sure, but I remember people saying “well Williams has only had a career best of x carries and x yards, he’s not an obstacle at all for CEH” or “they didn’t spend a 1st round draft choice on CEH for him to sit behind that bum.” So which is it? Did they intend a RBBC from the beginning (which I would say yes) or was he drafted to be a bell cow and now they went and got Bell after seeing him in that role for 5 weeks?
I think it’s quite obvious what’s going on and what their intent with CEH was when they drafted him, and it was largely ignored back in the summer.
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Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
This is a bit of good news/bad news for CEH, I think.
The #2 rusher on his team is Mahomes with 129 yards. Then it's Tyreek with 49. The #2 running back (Williams) has 35 yards.
Glass half full view is that this helps keep CEH fresher for the whole year as the #2 back wasn't offering much as a #2.
And Cleveland has proven that two guys can coexist although the two offenses are admittedly drastically different.
The #2 rusher on his team is Mahomes with 129 yards. Then it's Tyreek with 49. The #2 running back (Williams) has 35 yards.
Glass half full view is that this helps keep CEH fresher for the whole year as the #2 back wasn't offering much as a #2.
And Cleveland has proven that two guys can coexist although the two offenses are admittedly drastically different.
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Come on. I've seen multiple posts from you saying "but but Westbrook" - that's trolling and childish.
Anyway I'm not going to make it a big deal and wont mention it again - I just pointed it out.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I didn't think Williams would be a tremendous obstacle for CEH to overcome to see the majority of work but he was going to be part of the backfield equation if he didn't opt out. They tried to make the other Williams part of the equation but he looked liked he was running in mud on every screen pass he caught. Bell is (potentially) a huge upgrade over Derrick Williams so that creates the possibility CEH's workload decreases now.
I do think it's pretty obvious however that when a (well run) team spends a first round pick on a player they intend to make him a big part of the team. Are you disagreeing with that? - because that would be an odd stance.
I-ROK
Footballguy
No I don’t disagree with that, however CEHs profile suggested he would not be a bell cow. In fact, his profile would be an outlier if he were. I think we have and are now seeing why that is. And I think KC realizes it too. Sure, it also has a lot to do with the failure of the other RBs to not pick up CEH’s slack too; this isn’t all on CEH, but it’s not great for him either to get a guy who can and has done it all
themeistersinger
Footballguy
Bell basically fell into their lap for free this year - that's not at all comparable to using draft capital next year on an RB or using cap space to sign an RB next year.
I also think the analysis that "they must have promised him starter level touches" makes no sense. If I were the coach I would never promise that to him. All I would promise him is "I will give you a fair shake. I won't hold you past with the Jests against you, nor will I hold your Steelers past for or against you. If you do good here you will play. If you don't you won't."
Anybody with any kind of ego (pretty much anybody that is on an NFL roster) would say "Of course I'll be great and get all the work so even though you didn't say it, what I heard was you'll give me the Moon and the Stars just for showing up. Because I am just that good."
This. This right here. CEH has looked the part in the 3 games I've watched. He's struggled at the goal line but it has looked to me like small sample size/happened to run into D's slanting the right ways/few missed blocks/etc. Then a couple of games the game script went the wrong way. But overall felt like he was doing the right stuff, Andy Reid would figure out better ways to unlock him, and he was going to finish a top 5 guy.
Now who the hell knows.
I'm leading scorer in one league and #2 in my other one, but 2 games out of first in both and had CEH in both of them (and Dak in one). KITN sums it up nicely.
I don't know, based on how Taylor has played so far, I think he'd be a backup right now if Marlon Mack hadn't gotten hurt.
The correct answer was probably to go Lamb at #1.
themeistersinger
Footballguy
I think Pass Blocking might be the decider on who gets more work. At least according to PFF, CEH has been the 4th worst RB in the league at pass blocking - even among guys with only a handful of snaps. But Bell hasn't been dynamite either - still well below league average, while both Gore and Perine were at least average if not better. In Bell's case could just be lack of effort - no doubt he tuned out Gase a long time ago. CEH should get better with experience, but that may take some time - not likely to get dramatically better in the next week or two.
Pass blocking (PB) grades listed below
Chiefs RBs
Darrel Williams - PFF Grade 21.0 on 13 PB snaps
Clyde Edwards-Helaire - PFF Grade 17.1 on 8 PB snaps
Darwin Thompson - No PFF Pass Blocking Grade on 0 PB snaps
Jets RBs
Frank Gore - PFF Grade 76.2 on 14 PB snaps
La'Mical Perine - PFF Grade 77.6 on 4 PB snaps
Le'Veon Bell - PFF Grade 33.4 on 13 PB snaps
Pass blocking (PB) grades listed below
Chiefs RBs
Darrel Williams - PFF Grade 21.0 on 13 PB snaps
Clyde Edwards-Helaire - PFF Grade 17.1 on 8 PB snaps
Darwin Thompson - No PFF Pass Blocking Grade on 0 PB snaps
Jets RBs
Frank Gore - PFF Grade 76.2 on 14 PB snaps
La'Mical Perine - PFF Grade 77.6 on 4 PB snaps
Le'Veon Bell - PFF Grade 33.4 on 13 PB snaps
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Look at the thread title. The point of my post went over both of your heads.Fixed it for you
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
You're right. We don't know what's going to happen. I admit, I'm a CEH owner. I have one share in my main $$ league. While it's easy to see his value takes a hit, I see no reason to panic. I'm very lucky to have the depth I do in that league. We only start 1 RB and 1 WR with 3 flex. My team is very stacked. The point of my post was others already anointing Bell as the RB who will receive the majority of carries. He hasn't been relevant in over 3 years. He's been on my no draft list since joining the Jets. Had he started the season with KC, I probably wouldn't have targeted him or CEH. I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm comfortable sliding Mostert or AJ Brown into CEH's spot in my lineup after this week. You're not going to win in FF with just 1 player.
wgoldsph
Footballguy
I've been riding CEH's nuts hard from day one and while I don't like this I'm going to wait for bell to get up to speed in the offense before I make any changes to how I feel about CEH's upside here. As I've said and as other people have, two more tds and CEH is a rb1, and anyone who watched Westbrook in Philly (jab jab) knows Reid can get infatuated with the pass at the expense of common sense so the chiefs game plan doesn't concern me.
Let's see what bells still got in the tank now that Gase isn't holding down the emergency brake.
Let's see what bells still got in the tank now that Gase isn't holding down the emergency brake.
Spock
Footballguy
Double kick to the nuts here. I'm a current CEH owner and former Bell owner when he held out all of 2018.
This morning I changed my team name to F#@* LeVeon Bell
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Second week in a row where a penalty takes a TD away from him - yet I’m sure his detractors will keep the “he can’t score TDs” myth going.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
He’s getting close. Maybe by week 9 he gets one to stick. J/k, I actually think Reid forces one for him tonight.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
In all seriousness he has not shown well at the goal-line, although this “TD” was from the four. Especially now with Bell I don’t expect him to score many TDs this season but some are coming as he’s getting close and looked more like he did in Week 1 so far tonight. I’m especially rooting for him - I have him on one team - just to see the “little guy” succeed. I still feel good that he will.
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
He's dominating tonight. He should already have a TD. Terrible penalty that wasn't there is why. I'm not sure why they aren't using him more in the pass game. No way Bell takes over half of carries.
CEH showed well , but also showed a little reason why Reid/EB might still lean on Bell in the crunch. Fumble that got nullified by his knee being down. Not staying in bounds on the screen catch. Little things that don't show on box score but are noticeable. Good news is they kept with him after the non-fumble. He's definitely not a pile mover and this game did nothing to show otherwise. When it's obvious running situations he's a little over matched. But overall a nice game. Will be very interested in how the share is next week.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I'm almost embarrassed to say so but...I'd like to sell high, I think.
Wouldn't blame you. His value is still up in the air. You could point to this game but until we have a game with Bell active to see the split, most owners will be reluctant I'd imagine.
The Frankman
Footballguy
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
As long as you were comfortable with the return. I surely think he loses value this season, but maybe not significantly, and not being overworked his rookie season may help next year.
Bell could also be asked back next year if he fits in well so there’s risk with CEH. I’m gambling on the rewards.
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wgoldsph
Footballguy
SproutDaddy
Footballguy
Yeah. I don't think anyone is buying at this point. I'd probably sell high if I could.
The Finist
Footballguy
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
Truebluey
Footballguy
Hehe. Considering they ran nearly every play, and he carried 26 times, you think the Bills might have started to expect the run?
Just amazing how nearly every run tonight was a good positive gain. Slipped through first tackles, carried tacklers with him, and was just so tough to bring down. Impressive.
An advantage of these low to the ground runners is that they have less time to have the ball stripped. Thus no fumble tonight despite the constant strip attempts.
Looking forward to watching him and Bell together. I bet Mahomes is licking his choos!
dipandglide
Footballguy
Ding ding ding
Those thinking Bell comes in and takes a lot of Clyde’s work are delusional. Bell moves into the Pollard/Mattison handcuff range is all.
dmac37
Footballguy
Truebluey
Footballguy
dipandglide
Footballguy
rockaction
Footballguy
Looks like he faced one of the worst run defenses in the league tonight. But credit where credit is due. A broken clock is right twice a day.161 yards look good to you?
Truebluey
Footballguy
I apologize, I have no strong opinions either way, I'm just here to enjoy the egregious early hot takes, both ways.
I-ROK
Footballguy
Just saying he got loose with the ball knee down or not. I wouldn't punish him for it, but nfl coaches are weird sometimes about ball security.
I was impressed too. My comment was more along the lines of during the clock killing drive. Since Bills had no threat of pass the running game was at a disadvantage. No one would have succeeded in that scenario more than likely, but it is what it is.Hehe. Considering they ran nearly every play, and he carried 26 times, you think the Bills might have started to expect the run?
Just amazing how nearly every run tonight was a good positive gain. Slipped through first tackles, carried tacklers with him, and was just so tough to bring down. Impressive.
An advantage of these low to the ground runners is that they have less time to have the ball stripped. Thus no fumble tonight despite the constant strip attempts.
Looking forward to watching him and Bell together. I bet Mahomes is licking his choos!
I thought the penalty taking his TD away was pretty weak too. That's back to back weeks he's lost a TD.
