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*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Big League Chew
- Start date
shader
Footballguy
In the middle of a pandemic the protests were a terrible idea and have likely served as fuel to the fire in many areas.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
The difference between the 2 sites is the total case numbers for Suffolk are 41,309, not 60,276 as Worldometers is showing. Not sure where they got that number.
Suffolk's daily case numbers for the last 7 days have been 50 or below. Suffolk and Nassau have been very similar, with Nassau impacted worse early but then they were consistent with each other since around May,
Suffolk Daily Cases
jamny
Footballguy
Yeah hopefully we start getting smarter about what businesses can take proper precautions that don’t need to be shutdown. Most retail businesses can require masks and create social distancing. Restaurants and bars, not so much.
shader
Footballguy
Nashville signed an executive order on masks yesterday.
Here are the exclusions:
Here are the exclusions:
- Any child 12 or under
- People who cannot medically tolerate a mask. No person shall be required to produce verifying medical documentation
- In your vehicle
- In schools/universities
- In restaurants/bars
- While outdoors in public spaces unless you can't stay 6 feet from others
- While in a place of worship
- While in a building owned by the state of TN or the federal govt
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Redwes25
Footballguy
Don’t get too excited about any ‘good news’ coming from Arizona. Only 625 new cases today but one lab didn’t report, believed to be Quest which does about 80% of the testing here. Those cases are based on just 1524 PCR tests. Concerning that they’re having trouble keeping up.
shader
Footballguy
BassNBrew
Footballguy
Actually they appear to be succeeding in treating patients and saving lives. Should know in the next month if that’s the case or not.
NotSmart
Footballguy
Keerock
Footballguy
My son thinks he has it. Can't smell or taste and has been around others who have tested positive. He says literally nobody in Nashville wears a mask (until today)
trader jake
Footballguy
What a totally useless mess. That shows a real lack of leadership and a complete inability to do the right things, especially when doing the right things may be unpopular with some.
If nothing else, this virus has exposed how little leadership citizens are getting...or how little we demand of our elected officials. It can be infuriating (and exhausting if you let it).
Ignoratio Elenchi
Footballguy
Why even bother with the rest of them? Might as well have just said you're required to wear a mask everywhere at all times, unless you don't want to.
Scoresman
Footballguy
So the town I live in is home to the largest antique fair/flea market in the country. It's usually held monthly. ####### idiots are re-opening it this weekend. Our town has been very good with COVID so far, with only about 70 total cases to date in a population of about 100K. This is going to open the floodgates as the idiots stream in on Sunday. I've been to this thing. There is no real way to social distance. It's like Disneyland when it's crowded.
beer 30
Footballguy
[Darwin]Not for long if they keep that up[/Darwin]
Ours isn't that big but it's not a small gathering. They opened in SC probably a month ago and while it isn't at pre-lockdown numbers, there are a helluva lot more people there than I would be comfortable around (meaning more then 3).
Our church sent out a flyer to gauge interest in having church in a big tent outside (we're actually moving right now and don't have a church to go inside right now). Told the wife I have no desire to be in a closed setting even outside and socially distanced like they are talking. Just don't have any faith people will adhere to it.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I've lost track of what our goal is with all this.
We started with "flattening the curve" with the goal of helping our healthcare industry ramp up to deal with it. Are we still doing that? How prepared are they and/or how much more time is necessary to buy?
Has our goal shifted to preventing it from spreading it at all? Or are we now in "delay until we have a vaccine" mode?
What are we actually trying to do?
We started with "flattening the curve" with the goal of helping our healthcare industry ramp up to deal with it. Are we still doing that? How prepared are they and/or how much more time is necessary to buy?
Has our goal shifted to preventing it from spreading it at all? Or are we now in "delay until we have a vaccine" mode?
What are we actually trying to do?
culdeus
Footballguy
Depends on your point of view. If you want to make it look like the sky is falling quote the case counts.
Grahamburn
Footballguy
I'm surprised we can't figure it out too, given we're typically such a unified country.
NotSmart
Footballguy
This isn't just a legit question, it's also an important one that needs to be defined.
I look forward to hopefully several replies to this question; I'll give my thoughts later tonight when I have more time.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
It's up to each state to decide what we are doing, we have no national leadership on what the plan is.
Dezbelief
Footballguy
Grahamburn
Footballguy
Flying Elvis
Footballguy
Agree this is a legit question that doesn't seem to be addressed well by any outlet I've followed. To be fair, though, I've taken a big step back from following closely over the last month-ish. It's too disheartening to watch terrible leadership that proudly displays a total lack of common sense.
My opinion is that the goal is a continued flattening of the curve. Spikes will happen without reasonable preventive measures (SD, hygiene, masks, and sensible openings) and our hospital systems aren't well equipped to handle surges, even with makeshift hospitals. Things simply won't be normal like they were in 2019 any time soon.
RI goes to phase 3 this week. Damn near every city/town has passed legislation at the local level to immediately allow restaurants to have outdoor dining spaces where possible. Obviously trickier in urban setting than more rural settings. Everyone wears masks. All stores have employees wearing masks and have installed plastic shields to protect patrons/employees. Parks and Beaches are open, some issues with lack of mask on beach concourses that may result in stricter rules/enforcement. New England, in general, is populated by people that can make minor sacrifices for a reasonable goal... like preventing gobs of people from suffering losses that are avoidable.
culdeus
Footballguy
All along the US strategy is to not really care about the case count, and watch the available hospital space.
If there is no Vax for 2020 this might work out to be for the best. If a Vax does show up on the scene and works, we will have had needless deaths.
Redwes25
Footballguy
I still think goal is to flatten curve (at this point we aren't going to eradicate it). My biggest issue is that while we accomplished that goal in the NE it does not appear the much of the rest of the country has gotten there. I think numbers out of certain areas are back to showing exponential growth which will eventually swamp the hospitals in those regions.
shader
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
There was never a comprehensive plan in the USA. Take a look around Europe. That SHOULD have been the plan. I get a lot of flack in this thread for supposedly being negative, but much of Europe is sitting in a very positive position. They took their lumps with tough shutdowns, they wore masks, they had unified decision-making in each country, and now Europe is in a position where they may be able to defeat the virus. European countries will definitely have to be cautious for a second wave, but overall they've done a tremendous job.
The USA has had no plan, continues to have no plan, and will likely have no plan for the next 6 months.
We can all argue over "what the goal was", but if we are realistic, we know that there was never a goal.
I was at my parents house for about 2 hours on Father's Day weekend. I was outside 99% of the time and just used the bathroom. Prior to my visit, my sister/husband were there and were in the kitchen. When I walk in, I turn left, away from the kitchen, to use the bathroom, but was inside a few times. That weekend, my parents were around them moreso so I was probably ok for my visit, but my parents were likely exposed.
My bigger problem was yesterday. If my stepdad has it, he isn't showing any symptoms. I didn't ask because I didn't realize he was in the area of my sister last weekend. If he did catch it, I may have it after yesterday. So far, no health concerns.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
What does "defeat the virus" mean? That everyone gets it but just at a slowed rate? That a lot of people won't get it until a vaccine is available?
That's correct - on Father's Day. However, yesterday, I was in direct contact of my father who was exposed to my sister/husband 1 week earlier, for about 2 hours in an enclosed area with no masks.
culdeus
Footballguy
How is it schtick? How is it dangerous? To whom?
Case counts don't matter unless you really want to evaluate the efficacy of a vax. Most everyone will get this thing, sorry if that is bad news. Just a matter of when.
shader
Footballguy
"Everyone getting it" is not a valid option. That's not what they're doing in China, and that's not what they are doing in Europe. No country should strive for herd immunity. If they hit herd immunity, that means they failed to stop the virus.
If you can get the numbers down low enough, you can actually track active cases. That makes it much easier to manage the spread.
I don't think anyone thinks we can completely eliminate the virus until a vaccine hits. But we should be able to get the numbers low enough where some semblance of normal life can be reached.
But this is just my opinion. I'm a nobody. You're original point is basically correct. There is no plan, at least in this country.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I'm not trying to badger, honestly...
So it seems you're saying that we're in the mode of "hold it at bay as much as possible until we get a vaccine"?
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Original goal: Flatten the curve to:
1. Prevent hospitals from being overloaded.
2. Increase supply of PPE, tests, etc.
3. Learn more about how the virus spreads and can be treated so that future outbreaks are controlled. And take preventative actions based on the information.
4. Put together testing and contact tracing protocols to manage outbreaks and prevent them from spiraling out of control.
5. Getting the viral load in the community low enough that #4 can happen.
I think that 1 and 2 were accomplished pretty well with the lockdown. #3 and #4 depends on where you are at. #5 is the biggest failure of the states doing poorly now.
The goal right now should be managing the rise of cases. If anyone believed that there wasn’t going to be a rise in cases, they had unrealistic expectations. There was always going to rise in cases but there’s a difference between that and the outbreaks we’re seeing in FL, TX and AZ and likely several other states in the upcoming weeks.
The idea that these outbreaks were inevitable is just plain wrong. States didn’t wait long enough to open up and the obvious happened - the viral load remaining in the community spread to all the people who decided they were done with quarantine.
The goals now go back to not overloading the hospitals and again to prepare to make future outbreaks less severe.
shader
Footballguy
So let me get this straight. Talking about case counts is fear mongering, but saying that most everyone will get this thing is not?
To me, your statement is 100X more "negative" than anything I've ever posted in this thread.
That should never be the goal. But hey, if that's what you think is going to happen, I'm fine with that perspective. You definitely could be right. But I see far too many success stories all across the world to concede herd immunity.
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shader
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
Texas never had it until now. The case load was low, but they locked down anyways. You can say that the cases weren't high because of testing, but the % positives and deaths didn't really stand up to those metrics like other areas.
This is the first wave, the wave NYC went thru.
culdeus
Footballguy
Defeating the virus is dumb phrase to use because it implies we can win. The ultimate goal should be to minimize the damage - cases and ultimately deaths until better solutions are available. We will continue to learn how to better stop the spread and treat the virus. The further we push out cases, the better outcomes we will have.
Thanks!
I actually just spoke to my sister and she wasn't happy to hear from me on this topic. Call lasted about 1 minute before she hung up on me - I asked (somewhat serious, but also with a tad of sarcasm) if she feels awful about spreading this virus or just indifferent?
Clearly, when she answered the phone, I could tell she wasn't in a very good mood so I will have to try again with her later.
Mr Anonymous
Footballguy
It's just one county but it's a big one, Clark County, Nevada, the one where I live, and the home of Las Vegas, one of the world's finest petri dishes, and it has seen cases rise steadily for the past 30 days, while hospitalizations and deaths have continued to decline consistently. Weird. Note the Strip and the casinos were allowed to reopen June 4th. Just an example of a place where cases have risen while deaths and hospitalizations have not. Just got to wait 2 More Weeks! Err, wait...
https://media.southernnevadahealthdistrict.org/download/COVID-19/updates/20200629-COVID-19-Trends-Clark-County-PUBLIC.pdf
https://media.southernnevadahealthdistrict.org/download/COVID-19/updates/20200629-COVID-19-Trends-Clark-County-PUBLIC.pdf
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Did Texas meet the task force requirements when they opened up? It wasn’t bad in AZ or FL either but they opened too soon with a community viral load too high without enough precautions to prevent the rise in cases from getting out of control.
Redwes25
Footballguy
This reminds me of videos out of Italy or NY but it is Houston now - https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2020/06/29/inside-houston-coronavirus-hospital-marquez-newday-vpx.cnn/video/playlists/coronavirus/
Dezbelief
Footballguy
culdeus
Footballguy
The latter is probably true. Though I would probably argue you need a sustained R0 that is low rather than viral load, but that's not important.
It's more a matter of what was opened (bars, restaurants, churches, maybe gyms and some others) than the metrics used to open them that was the issue.
