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Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

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1 minute ago, James Daulton said:

We are easily going to hit 100k dead by August with massive mitigation efforts.  What would that number be had the governors not acted quickly?  1M seems easily reachable.

I am not sure what this has to do with the ridiculousness of promoting inflated numbers (that were known to be inflated by design).

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1 minute ago, kwille said:

I'm pretty much sure I don't have a side as taking sides during a global pandemic and economic disaster seems kinda self-serving and dumb. That said, I don't find anything funny about somebody being concerned about a new source of death claiming 1,000,000 in 20 months or so.

Nope, not the funny part.

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3 minutes ago, matuski said:

I am not sure what this has to do with the ridiculousness of promoting inflated numbers (that were known to be inflated by design).

Those numbers came from a model that prompted Trump, and then many reluctant governors, to change their mind on how to approach the pandemic.

I'd say the headlines were very useful in that regard.

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12 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

Does this mean that employees can’t sue?

They should all stay home.

They already are suing.  The unions are already telling them to stay home.

If/When this happens, #### will hit the fan for real.

Not media scare tactics, real life.  They can barely find people to do those jobs in the firstplace.

A vicious circle... the meatpacking plants are helpless to change anything.

 

Edited by matuski
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1 minute ago, Sinn Fein said:

Those numbers came from a model that prompted Trump, and then many reluctant governors, to change their mind on how to approach the pandemic.

I'd say the headlines were very useful in that regard.

So we agree they were ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, BobbyLayne said:

"But I think what happens is: it's gonna go away. This is gonna go away. And whether it comes back in a modified form in the fall, we'll be able to handle it. We'll be able to put out spurts. And we're very prepared to handle it.”

- President Donald John Trump, 4/28/2020

He's great at telling us how great he thinks he's gonna be in the future, and he's great at telling us how great he thinks he was in the past.

Meanwhile, he is completely screwing up everything right now.

(Bookmark this and check back in a month. He'll be claiming that his swift actions saved millions of lives in April.)

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Just now, matuski said:
1 minute ago, Sinn Fein said:

Those numbers came from a model that prompted Trump, and then many reluctant governors, to change their mind on how to approach the pandemic.

I'd say the headlines were very useful in that regard.

So we agree they were ridiculous.

No more ridiculous than "AIRCRAFT CARRIERS COULD BE SUNK AT PEARL HARBOR!"

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2 minutes ago, matuski said:

Yes, they were.  Let me know all the other times you supported using inflated - egregiously inflated - numbers.

Ok, we'll end up with at least 100k dead with strict lockdown.  Do you think that 1M or 2M dead with no lockdown is egregiously inflated?

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48 minutes ago, matuski said:

And the stetching to justify one side's ridiculousness continues.

 

This is the funny part.

Dude, I'm an electrician, not an epidemiologist or a statistician. But I know enough to know that with a novel virus where we have zero prior immunity, there's not a lot that can be ruled out, so let's drop the snark.

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30 minutes ago, matuski said:
31 minutes ago, James Daulton said:

We are easily going to hit 100k dead by August with massive mitigation efforts.  What would that number be had the governors not acted quickly?  1M seems easily reachable.

I am not sure what this has to do with the ridiculousness of promoting inflated numbers (that were known to be inflated by design).

Are these numbers inflated also?  Maybe the world is just making up dead people?  Should we trademark “Corona Denier”?

https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c

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5 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Asked about the US hitting 1 million coronavirus cases, and his February prediction of going from 15 to close to 0, Trump says, "Well, it will go down to zero, ultimately."

 

Its hard to argue with logic like this.

This should stay on the current page. 1,000,000. One F'n Million. "When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done." Looks like we're at about 1,035,765 at the moment so take away 15 and that's about a cubic boatload more than 0.  And this million +  would have been exponentially larger without the massive sacrifice by many to stay the F at home. 

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1 hour ago, matuski said:

I am not sure what this has to do with the ridiculousness of promoting inflated numbers (that were known to be inflated by design).

CNN promoted it, why are complaining in here?  CNN sucks.

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1 hour ago, squistion said:

:(

It's official:

Trump has signed an executive order to compel meat processing plants to stay open amid the coronavirus pandemic — and he will provide companies with liability protections in case employees catch the virus as a result of having to go to work.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/trump-order-meat-processing-plants-stay-open-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-n1194536

Oh, man, this is potentially like watching a Saw movie unfold before our eyes.  I just cringe at the thought of any of the workers coming down with the virus and possibly dying.  I get the supply chain issues and all.  But to just mandate that they'll open?  Not good.  Why not fly out to visit some plants, see the conditions, and work for a reasonable resolution?  (Test every worker every day?  Work at half-pace/slow pace to ensure some distancing?)  By simply issuing an executive order (around the time that the VP is prancing around Mayo with no mask) sends all the wrong signals.  It sounds like the concern is liability issues ...not safety issues.  Oh, man.

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7 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Asked about the US hitting 1 million coronavirus cases, and his February prediction of going from 15 to close to 0, Trump says, "Well, it will go down to zero, ultimately."

He's got us there. Airtight logic.

Unfortunately for Trump, the survival rate of every person living in the country will also go down to zero, ultimately. So exactly as much as he will deserve credit for the eventual vanquishing of the virus, he must also take responsibility for the deaths of 300 million Americans.

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10 minutes ago, Engelberg said:
8 hours ago, JbizzleMan said:

were you upset with his DPA for companies to make masks and ventilators?

There are several key differences.

The first, and most obvious difference, is that the food industry has not run out of meat.

The second difference is that meat is not required to keep dying people alive.

The third difference is that ventilator factories are more sanitary than meat processing facilities.

The fourth difference is that Trump did not order ventilator manufacturers to stay open while flaunting local shelter-in-place ordinances.

I could probably come up with a few more differences but I believe my point has been made.

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6 hours ago, kwille said:

This should stay on the current page. 1,000,000. One F'n Million. "When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that's a pretty good job we've done." Looks like we're at about 1,035,765 at the moment so take away 15 and that's about a cubic boatload more than 0.  And this million +  would have been exponentially larger without the massive sacrifice by many to stay the F at home

Look my good man, I'm on board with almost everything you posted, but the bolded does not qualify as a massive sacrifice.   I'm in Seattle, I've been quarantined for 45-50ish days now (time gets a little fuzzy),  and in no way do I feel like I've made a massive sacrifice.   I'm laid off, and my social contacts are reduced to conversations where I walk to a friends house and we talk; me, on the sidewalk, whilst they stand on their front porch. 

 I can do this indefinitely.   The biggest sacrifice I've made is having to eat my own cooking every night.

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10 hours ago, squistion said:
10 hours ago, James Daulton said:

Does this mean that employees can’t sue?

They should all stay home.

Not sure, but if they do, then the companies will be indemnified for the litigation costs and any damage awards.

In fairness, the companies should be indemnified at this point (indemnified going forward, not for their actions so far).  They don't have a choice.  However, the employees should be able to sue the federal government and win.

Unfortunately, the employees can't really stay home.  It would be construed as quitting and make them ineligible for unemployment.

Edited by Rich Conway
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Things apparently not good in Russia

Quote

Nurses have quit en masse from Russia’s top coronavirus hospital in Moscow over poor working conditions and low wages, the investigative news website Open Media reported Monday.

A former nurse who said she quit the Kommunarka hospital after almost two months told the outlet that more than a dozen nursing staff had left in that period. They reportedly quit because they were denied clean protective gear, food and adequate accommodations, and were not paid bonuses promised by President Vladimir Putin. 

“Management said: since Putin promised it to you, call and write him,” Open Media quoted the former nurse as saying. 

A similar quote with an identical account of mass walkouts, low pay and poor working conditions appears in online communications (presumably between nurses and the hospital’s management) shared by Russian journalist Natalia Andreyeva on Saturday. 

Both Andreyeva and Open Media noted that the nurses who walked out had been employed through the outsourcing medical company Arni.

Quote

The Kremlin admitted that equipment shortages at individual hospitals “can’t be ruled out,” but said that they do not reflect the overall state of Russia’s healthcare system.

Putin promised 10 billion rubles ($132 million) toward monthly bonuses for healthcare staff nationwide earlier in April. He said doctors treating coronavirus patients would receive an additional 80,000 rubles ($1,059) per month, while nurses, ambulance medics and drivers would get from 25,000 ($336) to 50,000 rubles ($674).

Moscow has reported a total of 45,351 coronavirus cases — making up more than half of Russia’s 87,147 cases nationwide — since the outbreak began. Kommunarka is currently treating 644 patients, according to Protsenko. 

Additional link from BBC

Quote

Russian President Vladimir Putin has admitted that there is a shortage of protective kit for medics as the country battles the coronavirus.

This was despite a big increase in production and imports, he said.

Mr Putin warned that the peak of the coronavirus infection rate had not yet been reached in the country, and the population must remain vigilant.

Russia's lockdown aimed at containing the spread of Covid-19 was extended until 11 May.

It has more than 93,000 coronavirus cases, with 867 recorded deaths.

What did Putin say?

The president said there was still not enough protective equipment for health workers on the frontline of the crisis.

"Compared to before, [we're producing] a lot. But compared what we need, it's still not enough," he said during a televised briefing.

"Despite increased production, imports - there's a deficit of all sorts of things," he added.

Coronavirus crisis tests Putin's grip on power in Russia

Is Covid-19 being used for power grab in Europe?

Medics have complained about working without proper protective clothing, especially in Russia's regions.

Russia is now producing 100,000 protective suits for medics per day, up from 3,000 a day in March, he said. Production of masks has also increased more than 10 times, to 8.5 million per day in April.

Mr Putin said that while the government had managed to "slow the spread" of the epidemic, Russians would have to self-isolate for longer.

Quote

Op-Ed from the BBC link

After a month under lockdown, Russians are already getting restless; the streets are getting busier again.

So this speech from Vladimir Putin was at once a dangled hope and a warning.

The government will now come up with an exit strategy to be implemented gradually, carefully - at some point.

But the peak infection rate hasn't passed here, and the risk from this epidemic remains high. So the restrictions on movement will stay in place - until after the long May holidays at least.

It's not pleasant, Mr Putin, acknowledged. But thinking the threat has passed would be dangerous.

 

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US status

1m+ cases, today likely breach 60K dead 

#1 in total cases (if NY and NJ were separate countries they would be #1 and #8 respectively) *

# 16 in deaths per capita - the improvement from #14 is due to Isle of Man and Channel Islands each having one more person dead in the past day, propelling them ahead of US. if NY and NJ were separate countries they would be #2 and #3 respectively (behind only San Marino) **

#42 in tests per capita (if if RI and NY were separate countries they would be #10 and #12 respectively) - California still storming up the chart, closing in on the US average (if they were their own country they'd be 50th in testing per capita)

* About half of the world is not exactly doing great in testing or transparency (eiter or both) so there is that qualification

** Many stories of under reporting from e.g. Russia, UK, China, Iran, countries in Africa, Ecuador etc. So this is only among the transparent nations I'd say.

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8 hours ago, Roy L Fewks said:
8 hours ago, Engelberg said:
17 hours ago, JbizzleMan said:

were you upset with his DPA for companies to make masks and ventilators?

There are several key differences.

The first, and most obvious difference, is that the food industry has not run out of meat.

The second difference is that meat is not required to keep dying people alive.

The third difference is that ventilator factories are more sanitary than meat processing facilities.

The fourth difference is that Trump did not order ventilator manufacturers to stay open while flaunting local shelter-in-place ordinances.

I could probably come up with a few more differences but I believe my point has been made.

Well, the BIGGEST difference IMO, is that Trump didn't actually use DPA to force companies to make masks and ventilators.  He :hophead: about it but never actually DID it.

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13 hours ago, James Daulton said:

Could you have imagined a time in our history when a silver spoon, reality tv guy would command 1/3rd of our country with such an iron fist that they'd turn against every single person, no matter how distinguished or qualified, who dare question his penultimate wisdom?

Crazy.

Penultimate wisdom?

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16 hours ago, Sinn Fein said:

Asked about the US hitting 1 million coronavirus cases, and his February prediction of going from 15 to close to 0, Trump says, "Well, it will go down to zero, ultimately."

 

Its hard to argue with logic like this.

Man, he’s awful. This is practically misanthropic.

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1 hour ago, The Commish said:

Well, the BIGGEST difference IMO, is that Trump didn't actually use DPA to force companies to make masks and ventilators.  He :hophead: about it but never actually DID it.

Well that and I don't remember any mask or ventilator manufacturer reporting an outbreak of cases of their employees.  Near Green Bay, 2 meat packing plants basically make up almost all the cases of positive test in Brown County.  I would love to see Trump or Pence visit a meat packing plant, actually I don't wish that on anyone, never been to one but can smell from a distance when you drive by 🤢

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9 minutes ago, yak651 said:

Well that and I don't remember any mask or ventilator manufacturer reporting an outbreak of cases of their employees.  Near Green Bay, 2 meat packing plants basically make up almost all the cases of positive test in Brown County.  I would love to see Trump or Pence visit a meat packing plant, actually I don't wish that on anyone, never been to one but can smell from a distance when you drive by 🤢

Been to a few in my life, the worst (beef) is if they are producing halal meat for export to the Middle East. Blood, lots of blood

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37 minutes ago, yak651 said:

Well that and I don't remember any mask or ventilator manufacturer reporting an outbreak of cases of their employees.  Near Green Bay, 2 meat packing plants basically make up almost all the cases of positive test in Brown County.  I would love to see Trump or Pence visit a meat packing plant, actually I don't wish that on anyone, never been to one but can smell from a distance when you drive by 🤢

Are you in Green Bay? Is JBS Beef one of the ones involved? I don't live up there anymore but when the wind was blowing from one direction and they were slaughtering that day, you knew it from across the river. I know its a big plant but its right in the city with the Green Bay sprawl. Just nasty.

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11 minutes ago, Challenge Everything said:

Are you in Green Bay? Is JBS Beef one of the ones involved? I don't live up there anymore but when the wind was blowing from one direction and they were slaughtering that day, you knew it from across the river. I know its a big plant but its right in the city with the Green Bay sprawl. Just nasty.

We used to go to GB a couple of times a year - I always assumed the smell was from Ft. Howard.

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9 minutes ago, Sinn Fein said:

We used to go to GB a couple of times a year - I always assumed the smell was from Ft. Howard.

For the west side? Probably, but the JBS Beef is on Lime Kiln. 20 years ago, that beef plant was edge of what was on Lime Kiln... now you go south on that road toward 172 and you have all kinds of businesses. Not homes but business. That beef place would fill the east side like no other. I can't imagine now because there are more apartments and people around that area.

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Germany's return to normal life in jeopardy after uptick in new coronavirus cases

Germany, one of the first European countries to cautiously loosen its coronavirus lockdown, is now facing the bleak prospect of having to restore the measures following a slight uptick in new infections.

Earlier this month, the country took its first step to gradually restart public life as the propagation rate of the virus fell.

In this March 24, 2020, file photo, a man jogs on the square in front of the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin, Germany. As the restrictions are eased, Chancellor Angela Merkel has pointed to South Korea as an example of how Germany will have to improve measures to “get ahead” of the pandemic with more testing and tracking of cases so that the rate of infections can be slowed.  (AP)

Small retailers with a surface area of up to 8,600 square feet, car and bicycle dealerships, as well as bookstores, were allowed to reopen while keeping social distancing in place. Next week, some students are expected to return to school.

All states are also moving ahead with regulations requiring protective masks in public transport, shops, or both.

But on Monday, the Robert Koch Institute revealed Germany had seen the first daily uptick in new cases in more than three days. It said the reproduction or infection rate had risen again to approximately 1.0, meaning each infected person passes the virus on to one other person.

When Germany, which was widely praised for its response to the pandemic, decided to lift some restrictions, the infection rate had fallen to 0.7.

<snip>

Merkel has warned Germany’s federal states against loosening their lockdowns too quickly, saying the pandemic was “still at the beginning.”

Last week she cautioned that, while the rate of new infections has been slowing, “we’re still walking on thin ice, one could also say the thinnest ice.”

“We’re not living in the final phase of the pandemic, but still at the beginning. We will be living with this virus for a long time.”

She added: “Let us not squander what we have achieved and risk a setback. It would be a shame if premature hope ultimately punishes us all. Let us all stay on the path in the next phase of the pandemic: smart and careful. It’s a long journey; we can’t run out of stamina and air too soon.”

Meanwhile, Germany announced Wednesday it was extending its worldwide travel warning until mid-June, saying the pandemic is too dire to change the guidance.

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2 hours ago, msommer said:

US status

1m+ cases, today likely breach 60K dead 

#1 in total cases (if NY and NJ were separate countries they would be #1 and #8 respectively) *

# 16 in deaths per capita - the improvement from #14 is due to Isle of Man and Channel Islands each having one more person dead in the past day, propelling them ahead of US. if NY and NJ were separate countries they would be #2 and #3 respectively (behind only San Marino) **

#42 in tests per capita (if if RI and NY were separate countries they would be #10 and #12 respectively) - California still storming up the chart, closing in on the US average (if they were their own country they'd be 50th in testing per capita)

* About half of the world is not exactly doing great in testing or transparency (eiter or both) so there is that qualification

** Many stories of under reporting from e.g. Russia, UK, China, Iran, countries in Africa, Ecuador etc. So this is only among the transparent nations I'd say.

if Russia has less than 1000 deaths (972 at Worldometer as of this post), I'm Vladmir Putin.

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2 minutes ago, Tolstoy said:

if Russia has less than 1000 deaths (972 at Worldometer as of this post), I'm Vladmir Putin.

Totally, Lev Nikolaevich. Did you see the Russia update I posted upthread? Lots of incentives to categorize cases and deaths as something else

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1 hour ago, Challenge Everything said:

Are you in Green Bay? Is JBS Beef one of the ones involved? I don't live up there anymore but when the wind was blowing from one direction and they were slaughtering that day, you knew it from across the river. I know its a big plant but its right in the city with the Green Bay sprawl. Just nasty.

I'm between Green Bay and Appleton.  Yes JBS is the one that's had the most cases.  They finally over the weekend said they were going to shut down as they had so many but now I'm sure they will be starting back up...They said over easter a bunch of families got together which they believe led to the spread

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52 minutes ago, lakerstan said:

Now we can commemorate Trump's success with Coronavirus in the White House Gift Shop!

https://www.whitehousegiftshop.com/product-p/covid-heroes.htm

OTHER COINS IN THE HISTORIC MOMENT ART SERIES INCLUDE:

Number 7: Title: GENIUS MAKES ITS OWN RULES with a Monograph "President Donald J. Trump: A Study in Genius"

I'm so angry I missed out on coin #5 commemorating a Trump-Putin Summit.

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1 minute ago, pollardsvision said:

Gaston County, NC (just West of Charlotte) lifting stay-at-home orders today (against State orders).

Apparently, it's gotten pretty nasty up there between the local communities and the state.  Not surprising given the make up, but it seems like it's own little soap opera there.

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1 minute ago, The Commish said:

Apparently, it's gotten pretty nasty up there between the local communities and the state.  Not surprising given the make up, but it seems like it's own little soap opera there.

The fallout will be interesting and sadly, ugly.  I have no idea what Cooper can or would do, but certainly other counties will try to do the same. 

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5 minutes ago, The Commish said:
7 minutes ago, pollardsvision said:

Gaston County, NC (just West of Charlotte) lifting stay-at-home orders today (against State orders).

Apparently, it's gotten pretty nasty up there between the local communities and the state.  Not surprising given the make up, but it seems like it's own little soap opera there.

Constitutionally, who's in charge?
Could the governor send in the National Guard if he actually is in charge?

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