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Government Response To The Coronavirus (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Pulling the money from things that were already approved. All part of the plan to make him look like the middle class hero. Kinda surprised Pelosi fell into it. Sounds like the White House wasn’t offering much more than what the Republicans approved so I guess she didn’t have much choice unless she just wanted to approve their bill. Gonna be all he talks about now until the election. How he saved the middle class with his orders. Gotta hand it to him. The Dems had the upper hand and he turned that around.
The Gator
Footballguy
It actually gets better:
Brad Heath@bradheath
Guys, under the president's unemployment plan, nobody gets the $300 in federal aid unless their state agrees to come up with $100. He's trying to shoehorn this through disaster aid programs and the relevant law requires a 25% state match. No match, no federal aid.
caustic
Footballguy
Yeah these EOs are pretty toothless. The evictions one instructs federal agencies to “review all existing authorities and resources that could be used to prevent evictions and foreclosures.” It doesn’t create an eviction moratorium or really do anything at all.
The payroll tax EO is a deferral, so employers will likely continue to withhold payroll taxes from workers’ paychecks as normal (or withdraw all the backlogged taxes from their checks once the deferral expires).
The unemployment insurance one has the potential to help some people, but not for long — it’s funded with $44 billion of FEMA disaster relief money, which won’t get us very far. And as The Gator mentioned, it requires contributions from states whose budgets have been crippled by the recession. (The legality of this one is also questionable).
The payroll tax EO is a deferral, so employers will likely continue to withhold payroll taxes from workers’ paychecks as normal (or withdraw all the backlogged taxes from their checks once the deferral expires).
The unemployment insurance one has the potential to help some people, but not for long — it’s funded with $44 billion of FEMA disaster relief money, which won’t get us very far. And as The Gator mentioned, it requires contributions from states whose budgets have been crippled by the recession. (The legality of this one is also questionable).
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
shader
Footballguy
I’m sure the legality of all of them are questionable. But they were political moves and who wants to challenge them? From a purely political standpoint, Trump put dems in check. Will be interesting to see how they counter.
And the payroll tax isn’t being spun as a deferral. It’s being spun as a holiday that will turn permanent if Trump is re-elected, whether that’s true or not.
shader
Footballguy
Yes I saw an article on cnn yesterday about how the government standstill on evictions is going to seriously harm less privileged families.
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whoknew
Footballguy
So the eviction moratorium only applied to FANNIE and FREDDIE properties. Which are substantial - I think the percentage I saw was around 40% of multi properties are FANNIE/FREDDIE funded.
But obviously, an eviction moratorium isn't a waiver of rent. Nor should there be one. And without the ability to evict, at some point, the commercial property industry could be in serious trouble. It already is in other asset classes (besides muti).
No reply on twitter from our governor DeSantis. Or Marco Rubio or Rick Scott for that matter. Or even Matt Gaetz. I don't know if they don't support these EOs, or they're waiting for marching orders. This is a big deal, I would've expected something by now.
caustic
Footballguy
The eviction moratorium from the CARES act helped 12,000,000 people — Trump’s EO today did not extend it. Here’s the text of the order. It asks HHS & CDC to consider if a moratorium is still necessary, and instructs other departments to try and find unused money that can be put towards rent assistance. It’s unclear what will come of that, if anything.
caustic
Footballguy
The spin on these things has been insane. Here’s the text:
Sec. 2. Deferring Certain Payroll Tax Obligations. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby directed to use his authority pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 7508A to defer the withholding, deposit, and payment of the tax imposed by 26 U.S.C. 3101(a), and so much of the tax imposed by 26 U.S.C. 3201 as is attributable to the rate in effect under 26 U.S.C. 3101(a), on wages or compensation, as applicable, paid during the period of September 1, 2020, through December 31, 2020, subject to the following conditions:
(a) The deferral shall be made available with respect to any employee the amount of whose wages or compensation, as applicable, payable during any bi-weekly pay period generally is less than $4,000, calculated on a pre-tax basis, or the equivalent amount with respect to other pay periods.
(b) Amounts deferred pursuant to the implementation of this memorandum shall be deferred without any penalties, interest, additional amount, or addition to the tax.
There’s this little nugget which indicates Trump still wants an actual payroll tax cut, but he needs Congress to get on board:
Sec. 4. Tax Forgiveness. The Secretary of the Treasury shall explore avenues, including legislation, to eliminate the obligation to pay the taxes deferred pursuant to the implementation of this memorandum.
whoknew
Footballguy
I read on twitter that this tax funds Social Security and Medicare. So its a backhanded way to defund those programs. Do you know if that is true?
John Blutarsky
Footballguy
Trump's executive action would encourage federal efforts to help renters and homeowners avoid eviction or foreclosure for failing to make their monthly payments. He directs his administration to identify available funds to "provide temporary financial assistance to renters and homeowners who, as a result of the financial hardships caused by COVID-19, are struggling to meet their monthly rental or mortgage obligations."
caustic
Footballguy
Since this is just a deferral rather than a tax cut, today’s EO isn’t a huge blow to SS/Medicare. The government still gets its payroll tax revenue, just a few months later than normal.
Trump, Stephen Moore, and a few others want a permanent elimination of the payroll tax, which would obviously be extremely harmful to those programs. The President doesn’t have the authority to change the tax code though, and during stimulus negotiations Congress wasn’t interested in pursuing a payroll tax cut despite Trump’s pleading.
caustic
Footballguy
Yes — that’s much different than the eviction moratorium in the CARES act. It’s unclear how much money they’ll be able to dig out of the couch cushions for this, who would be helped by it, or how much those people would be helped.
The Gator
Footballguy
Cross-Posting with a different thread:
I just happened to see this today:
100 days without Covid-19: How New Zealand got rid of a virus that keeps spreading across the world
Today New Zealand marked 100 days without community transmission of Covid-19.
From the first known case imported into New Zealand on February 26 to the last case of community transmission detected on May 1, elimination took 65 days.
New Zealand relied on three types of measures to get rid of the virus:
1. Ongoing border controls to stop Covid-19 from entering the country
2. A lockdown and physical distancing to stop community transmission
3. Case-based controls using testing, contact tracing and quarantine.
Collectively, these measures have achieved low case numbers and deaths compared with high-income countries in Europe and North America that pursued a suppression strategy.
***
We have previously described critical measures to get us through this period, including the use of fabric face masks, improving contact tracing with suitable digital tools, applying a science-based approach to border management, and the need for a dedicated national public health agency.
Maintaining elimination depends on adopting a highly strategic approach to risk management. This approach involves choosing an optimal mix of interventions and using resources in the most efficient way to keep the risk of Covid-19 outbreaks at a consistently low level. Several measures can contribute to this goal over the next few months, while also allowing incremental increases in international travel:
• Resurgence planning for a border-control failure and outbreaks of various sizes, with state-of-the-art contact tracing and an upgraded alert level system
• Ensuring all New Zealanders own a re-useable fabric face mask with their use built into the alert level system
• Conducting exercises and simulations to test outbreak management procedures, possibly including "mass masking days" to engage the public in the response
• Carefully exploring processes to allow quarantine-free travel between jurisdictions free of Covid-19, notably various Pacific Islands, Tasmania and Taiwan (which may require digital tracking of arriving travellers for the first few weeks
• Planning for carefully managed inbound travel by key long-term visitor groups such as tertiary students who would generally still need managed quarantine.
I just happened to see this today:
100 days without Covid-19: How New Zealand got rid of a virus that keeps spreading across the world
Today New Zealand marked 100 days without community transmission of Covid-19.
From the first known case imported into New Zealand on February 26 to the last case of community transmission detected on May 1, elimination took 65 days.
New Zealand relied on three types of measures to get rid of the virus:
1. Ongoing border controls to stop Covid-19 from entering the country
2. A lockdown and physical distancing to stop community transmission
3. Case-based controls using testing, contact tracing and quarantine.
Collectively, these measures have achieved low case numbers and deaths compared with high-income countries in Europe and North America that pursued a suppression strategy.
***
We have previously described critical measures to get us through this period, including the use of fabric face masks, improving contact tracing with suitable digital tools, applying a science-based approach to border management, and the need for a dedicated national public health agency.
Maintaining elimination depends on adopting a highly strategic approach to risk management. This approach involves choosing an optimal mix of interventions and using resources in the most efficient way to keep the risk of Covid-19 outbreaks at a consistently low level. Several measures can contribute to this goal over the next few months, while also allowing incremental increases in international travel:
• Resurgence planning for a border-control failure and outbreaks of various sizes, with state-of-the-art contact tracing and an upgraded alert level system
• Ensuring all New Zealanders own a re-useable fabric face mask with their use built into the alert level system
• Conducting exercises and simulations to test outbreak management procedures, possibly including "mass masking days" to engage the public in the response
• Carefully exploring processes to allow quarantine-free travel between jurisdictions free of Covid-19, notably various Pacific Islands, Tasmania and Taiwan (which may require digital tracking of arriving travellers for the first few weeks
• Planning for carefully managed inbound travel by key long-term visitor groups such as tertiary students who would generally still need managed quarantine.
The General
Footballguy
New Zealand passes a 100 days without a case.
Meanwhile, the US has a thousands of motorcycle dudes from all around the country converging in one city to party then ride back to their towns.
Merica!!!
Meanwhile, the US has a thousands of motorcycle dudes from all around the country converging in one city to party then ride back to their towns.
Merica!!!
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
New Zealand doesn't have 1000s of people gathering to loot and vandalize things either. Merica!!
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
[scooter]
Footballguy
This seems like a strange post from you because you're usually pro-America. But, yeah, New Zealand doesn't have a big issue with rioters in the streets. Part of the reason for that is because they're a fairly liberal country and have already implemented many of the reforms which American protesters have been clamoring for.
I agree that they are a good model for us to emulate, though.
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
Wait, who is anti-America here?This seems like a strange post from you because you're usually pro-America. But, yeah, New Zealand doesn't have a big issue with rioters in the streets. Part of the reason for that is because they're a fairly liberal country and have already implemented many of the reforms which American protesters have been clamoring for.
I agree that they are a good model for us to emulate, though.
Thanks for admitting liberals riot when they don't get their way. Are you sure that's what you meant?
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Do they have a problem with police killing their black citizens, which some find to be a terrible injustice worthy of risking ones life to try and correct?
I cant see how a motorcycle ride is in the same stratosphere. Why would anyone try and compare such things?
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
What does that have to do with containing coronavirus? I think you might be in the wrong thread?
[scooter]
Footballguy
New Zealand police, for the most part, do not carry guns -- thus reducing the likelihood of them killing unarmed people of any color. The entire country also has implemented some fairly strict gun control, further reducing the risk of police killings.
This is another example of the liberal reforms which have made New Zealand into the kind of country that earns praise from @Ramblin Wreck
[scooter]
Footballguy
Ramblin Wreck
Footballguy
[scooter]
Footballguy
zoonation
Footballguy
In fairness, thousands of people gathering anywhere is going to spread the virus to a degree. Of course, your point on how ridiculous it is to conflate social justice protests with a biker rally is bang on.
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The General
Footballguy
The General
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm not so sure about that.
Even if each EO is legal he's only deferred student loan payments (it's still owed), payroll tax (also, still owed), threatened ss/medicare (but the tax is technically still owed), I'm not sure the eviction language will lead to anything tangible (someone help me out here), and with state revenue streams being gutted what will they need to do in order to fund their share of unemployment.
I have no faith in Dem leadership playing this hand correctly, but this looks like pocket rockets to me. Republicans fighting this would be problematic in a few months, but wouldn't doing nothing lead to the same result? The campaign ads write themselves - they're either defunding your program (ss/medicare) or tax you later for the 'holiday' (workers). If I'm missing something someone correct me, but this strikes me as pressure on republicans to bend to democrats now to approve a bill so these EO's are undone. I don't think they will though.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
I think the campaign points will be there. Nobody’s going to read the fine print imo. He’s willing to fund 3/4 of the additional unemployment benefits as long as the states kick in their 1/4. It’s going to be on each individual state if it doesn’t happen. As far as the tax holiday, he says it will be forgiven as long as he’s re-elected. The student loan payments have always been deferred, people seems happy enough with that right now. The eviction moratorium has always been not quite what it seems as it’s only pertained to buildings bought with federal loans. I really think this makes him look like a hero swooping in and puts the pressure on the Dems. Can see your line of thought though. Whole thing looks shady to me.
Green Balloons
Footballguy
This could backfire in a major way as red states rely on federal money more than blue states. Now imagine the Americans in a red state that can't kick in the $100 so they don't get anything. There are going to be a lot of angry, and hungry, Americans. :(
Mile High
Footballguy
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I assume all states will pick up the quarter.
Green Balloons
Footballguy
Possibly not. States would be required to sign a contract guaranteeing the federal government that $100. I'm not sure how that would work but there are plenty of states that are broke both red and blue.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
That’s what I’ve read. Money is coming from FEMA funds and that requires a 25% state contribution.
The Gator
Footballguy
We'll just use a sharpie to change the direction of any hurricane that threatens landfall.
fruity pebbles
Footballguy
Agreed. With states out of money and the federal government seemingly unwilling to approve very much more, I feels like it’s going to get ugly for many Americans at some point towards the end of the year.
There are 3 lines on my paycheck regarding federal taxes:
Federal Income tax, Social Security tax, and Medicare tax
According to the EO the federal income tax will not be taken out of my next paycheck? Or any paycheck until the end of the year? And then come tax time, the IRS will send me a huge bill?
caustic
Footballguy
Payroll tax usually refers to the Social Security and Medicare taxes. According to Trump’s EO, businesses do not have to give the government any payroll tax money until the new year — but once the deferral is over, they have to pay the full amount of tax from that period.
Your employer will most likely continue to withhold Social Security and Medicare tax from your paycheck as usual. If they don’t, all the backlogged taxes will be deducted from your check once the deferral is over.
The Gator
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
Do you think New Zealand is a good comparison to the United States?
Why not go with Madagascar?
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Would withholding completely be at the discretion of the employer? If so, I’m not sure what they’d decide.
The Gator
Footballguy
TripItUp
Footballguy
The Gator
Footballguy
The Gator
Footballguy
Is there something unique about New Zealand that makes their approach only applicable to New Zealand?
Because, if you are suggesting the US cannot follow the example set by New Zealand - we are in deep trouble. There are no short cuts, or prayers, or wishes, that can control a pandemic.
There are practical steps that must be taken, and if we can't do them - well, it speaks poorly of us.
Because, if you are suggesting the US cannot follow the example set by New Zealand - we are in deep trouble. There are no short cuts, or prayers, or wishes, that can control a pandemic.
There are practical steps that must be taken, and if we can't do them - well, it speaks poorly of us.
The General
Footballguy
I’m guessing they are not traveling from around their country to converge, party, unmasked for a few days then head back home.
It’s like we are trying to spread it.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
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