IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
Why do you people insist on engaging with someone who is so obviously impervious to persuasion and good-faith dialog?
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Government Response To The Coronavirus (13 Viewers)
- Thread starter James Daulton
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
to say the above, you'd have to believe vaccinated people are not getting covid (they are) ... or they're getting covid but somehome magically not able to spread it
but non-vaccinated people getting covid and spreading it is the concern, yet vaccinated people doing the same isn't
fascinating man, just fascinating ....
moleculo
Footballguy
To your first point, can you acknowledge that there are shades of grey, and not everything is black and white?
There is concern for vaccinated people spreading. Did you not see that some areas are reintroducing mask mandates?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/23/delta-variant-pfizer-covid-vaccine-39percent-effective-in-israel-prevents-severe-illness.html?fbclid=IwAR1SgKyC7d19mYLAfcxxTsZ3MpFu_mHplxJzObIahZpCyINFTyoJmUMzTv4
HEALTH AND SCIENCE
Israel says Pfizer Covid vaccine is just 39% effective as delta spreads
But c'mon .... if I'm 0.01% likely to get covid, and ya'll vaccinated are 90-95% not likely
what are those odds that I am a "threat" to you at all or anyone vaccinated for that matter ?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
sure there are grey's
as it now appears - vaccinated people can get covid, thus they can spread covid. They need to be under the same restrictions/rules as non-vaccinated, can't take any chances right ?
but ya'll are saying vaccinated people just don't get bad sick if they get covid .... well fantastic, then get your shot and quit worrying about it !
if the next strain comes along and negates the vaccines, worry about that then because with 7 billion people on the planet, 100,000 coming across the southern border every month unchecked for diseases, and knowing covid has been around, has mutated and will be around and will mutate in the future ..... understand we aint going to all get vaccinated and "stop covid" - that's unrealistic
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Texas COVID-19 hospitalizations see 150% increase in last month
Delta variant makes up most new COVID-19 cases in Texas
Texas reported 4,320 COVID-19-related hospitalizations on Saturday, a high not seen since mid-March, when the state’s numbers began trending downward. The total marks an increase of over 1,000 hospitalizations from the prior week, when the state reported just shy of 3,000.
Last week, the state’s health commissioner noted a 150% increase in COVID-19 hospitalizations between June 27 and July 20. Dr. John Hellerstedt, the commissioner of the department of state health services, noted that the delta variant makes up most new cases in Texas. He urged residents who haven’t yet received a COVID-19 vaccine to seek out the shot.
"Unlike previous surges, this time we have safe, powerfully effective vaccines and plenty of them," Hellerstedt said. "We know how to vaccinate millions of Texans in a short period of time. We can see the danger coming on fast. But this time, we can stop it in its tracks."
Delta variant makes up most new COVID-19 cases in Texas
Texas reported 4,320 COVID-19-related hospitalizations on Saturday, a high not seen since mid-March, when the state’s numbers began trending downward. The total marks an increase of over 1,000 hospitalizations from the prior week, when the state reported just shy of 3,000.
Last week, the state’s health commissioner noted a 150% increase in COVID-19 hospitalizations between June 27 and July 20. Dr. John Hellerstedt, the commissioner of the department of state health services, noted that the delta variant makes up most new cases in Texas. He urged residents who haven’t yet received a COVID-19 vaccine to seek out the shot.
"Unlike previous surges, this time we have safe, powerfully effective vaccines and plenty of them," Hellerstedt said. "We know how to vaccinate millions of Texans in a short period of time. We can see the danger coming on fast. But this time, we can stop it in its tracks."
moleculo
Footballguy
You are a much greater threat to unvaccinated people than me. I assure you, I'm not living in fear.
However, I do hold a lot of empathy for those who cannot get vaccinated - i.e. children <12, children between 12-18 with anti-vaxxer parents (i.e. my kids friends), the immuno-compromised, those with bona-fide religous exemptions or medical conditions.
moleculo
Footballguy
they can, sure. but if a vaccinated person is 10x less likely than the unvaccinated, isn't that kind of on the unvaccinated? That's the point.
The unvaccinated are ruining our chance to get back to normal.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
if someone doesn't want to get vaccinated I'm not forcing them to - that's their choice
how does their health all of a sudden become my responsibility ?
in the bold above - 610,000 attributed deaths, without looking it up, how many under 18 years old have died ? Give me a number without looking it up .... 25,000 ? 15,000 ? 8,000 ??? guess
Stealthycat
Footballguy
this is a highly contagious, fast moving virus .... knowing that, we'd have to assume vaccinated people with covid (not wearing masks, back to normal lives) could be spreading it everywhere
those Texas Democrats ? how many people did they make contact with galivanting all over the place to DC and back and all around without PPE equipment? How many Biden staff recently were covid positive vaccinated? Olympians ... traveling 1/2 way around the world and carrying covid here and there (vaccinated Olympians) .... I'm sure you agree that's a huge problem
moleculo
Footballguy
how does their health become your responsibility? In my opinion, promoting the general welfare is the responsibility of all citizens. All I'm asking is that you do the right thing. It's pretty basic. Have an ounce of civic responsibility, empathy for your fellow man, whatever you want to call it.
I mean, 70 years ago, men stormed the beaches of Normandy. In 2021, grown men are scared to get a shot. It's incredible.
moleculo
Footballguy
of course it's a huge problem. hopefully it holds that the vaccine makes the virus less severe.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
How people don't understand this is mind-boggling. Just can't see anything other than their own circumstance.
Plenty of stories coming out where families switch to urging people to get vaccinated after previously denying the vaccine, all because a loved one of theirs went to the hospital or died. Why does it take someone in your own family to be impacted to understand this?
moleculo
Footballguy
I posted a few days ago that my (vaccinated) dad caught COVID, but was doing pretty good. Well, he took a turn for the worse and is in the hopsital for x-rays as we speak. Not good.
He caught COVID at a church camp he was helping out at. No masks anywhere, as you can imagine churches in Florida tend to be. I don't know if the person he caught it from was vaccinated... no way to know for sure but odds are that they weren't.
He caught COVID at a church camp he was helping out at. No masks anywhere, as you can imagine churches in Florida tend to be. I don't know if the person he caught it from was vaccinated... no way to know for sure but odds are that they weren't.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
A lot of them don't want "Biden to make goal!" or anything good to happen for the economy. Willing to get sick and die over it. Until they beg a nurse to give them the vaccine before they get intubated. Sorry, too late then.
Doug B
Footballguy
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
so you should be for mandating BMI index/obesity - banning smoking , abortions etc ?
and when H1N1 hit, did you voice shutting down the economy? mandatory shots?
all the above is a massive impact on society - the financial drain, the emotional impacts on families etc
do the right thing, right ?
but thank you - you confirmed it is NOT my responsibility, your health or anyone else's nor is my health your responsibility.
you are asking me to take a non-FDA approved shot with a vaccine/delivery system never before tested on humans. While its probably safe, nobody knows for sure what the long term effects will be. We will know them in 10 years looking back. You want me to do this, because I have a 0.01 % chance of getting the virus (my age, health, genetics, immune system etc) Note that 50% of the USA doesn't have to worry - they're vaccinated and won't get bad sick anyway.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
my uncle and aunt don't know where they got it - likely someone who was vaccinated because that's who they hang with
my uncle is better, my aunt never got anything much more than sniffles - both mid-70's and both in good health, not obese, no underlying conditions
hope your Dad does well
Stealthycat
Footballguy
link to "a lot" please
https://www.cbsnews.com/live/#x
Kamala didn't trust Trump or administration and flatly said she'd refuse to take vaccine. You can believe whatever you want on Kamala .... she didn't want Trump to make a goal, she hated him, she distrusted the Fed Govt, she wanted to spread division, discourse and distrust ..... but she was clear she was NOT going to take a shot unless she felt 100% comfortable
Was she wrong?
moleculo
Footballguy
As you know, BMI is not communicable so I don't know why you would put that. Second hand some is nearly banned already (thank God). Abortion - not gonna touch that.
You want to stop draining the economy? Get the shot. That is how we get to normal.
That's all I'm going to say. I don't want another TO so I'm done.
supermike80
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Upon reflection of the responses on this page ALONE, I apologize for my contribution in other instances. I'm officially done. This engagement is like engaging the guy on his death bed after having caught the virus insisting that it's not the virus killing him. At some point, but bait and run.
At this point, we all understand the concept of personal responsibility. If the first thing in rebuttal to personal responsiblity is "what about joe over here?" then it's a pretty good sign they reject the notion of personal responsibility or at least put way more credence in "whataboutism" than doing their part to help.
The Commish
Footballguy
He specified Florida. For the state, in general, it's under 50%. Some counties it's WAY under 50%. the odds are generally correct and might be really accurate depending on location. National rates, in this case, are irrelevant. I can give a specific county rate if I know the county.
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supermike80
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
communicable is irrelevant - you want to talk social health and responsibility and try and shame me into taking a shot for the greater good ....
obese people are a massive healthcare cost as are smokers/tobacco users. Billions, tens of billions ....... and then of course we all know how those things impact us at a family level. We all know people who've died from lung cancer/smoking, the toll it takes on families etc. Abortion kills an unborn life - biological fact, trust the science.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
oh wow, you did that !! lol
personal responsibility is insisting someone else get a non-FDA approved shot ... that's personal responsibility . wow
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I'll hold off a few days on this thread - but mark my words .... more and more vaccinated people will get covid, more and more vaccinated will die from it. Booster shots will be coming soon (way too much money for them not to sell them to the US Fed Govt). In the coming months, "science" IMO will tell us the covid vaccines were not quite as good as they expected/thought
In the meantime, bullying will continue towards those not vaccinated and non-vaccinated will be more and more discriminated against.
BTW the question I asked earlier - how many under 18 have died from covid ..... 331 under 18 have been attributed to covid deaths in the USA – of the 73,000,000 under 18 in the USA – that’s 0.00045 %
one last thing - @-fish- message me on the gun for vaccine shot offer, I can be bought
In the meantime, bullying will continue towards those not vaccinated and non-vaccinated will be more and more discriminated against.
BTW the question I asked earlier - how many under 18 have died from covid ..... 331 under 18 have been attributed to covid deaths in the USA – of the 73,000,000 under 18 in the USA – that’s 0.00045 %
one last thing - @-fish- message me on the gun for vaccine shot offer, I can be bought
The Commish
Footballguy
At this juncture, personal responsibility includes either getting the shot or staying away from people and masking up when you can't stay away from people (same as day one). I'm ok with either decision. If you want to isolate yourself, go for it. No skin off my teeth.
And one last time to mention this as well. As more people get vaccinated, more reports of vaccinated people getting covid will be documented. That's how basic math works. This is because the vaccines are 90% effective. At the onset of vaccine discovery, we knew that if everyone in the world (round up to 8B people) got vaccinated at once, we'd still have 800 million people who'd likely get the virus anyway. That's what the 10% number represents. NONE of this accounts for the continued mutations that are allowed because people are willingly providing themselves as hosts for mutations. This is where boosters will come into play. It's pretty clear the path we're on and the amount of nonsensical "arguments" we will have to endure moving forward. I suspect IK's solution really is the ONLY solution. It works really well in the FFA. They are a much more disciplined bunch for sure
And one last time to mention this as well. As more people get vaccinated, more reports of vaccinated people getting covid will be documented. That's how basic math works. This is because the vaccines are 90% effective. At the onset of vaccine discovery, we knew that if everyone in the world (round up to 8B people) got vaccinated at once, we'd still have 800 million people who'd likely get the virus anyway. That's what the 10% number represents. NONE of this accounts for the continued mutations that are allowed because people are willingly providing themselves as hosts for mutations. This is where boosters will come into play. It's pretty clear the path we're on and the amount of nonsensical "arguments" we will have to endure moving forward. I suspect IK's solution really is the ONLY solution. It works really well in the FFA. They are a much more disciplined bunch for sure
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The General
Footballguy
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Texas has seen nearly 9,000 COVID-19 deaths since February. All but 43 were unvaccinated people.
Preliminary data shows 99.5% of COVID-related deaths in Texas were among unvaccinated people, according to the Department of State Health Services.
Still better off getting the jab.
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Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Those odds are not independent. They will vary across region and subculture, ie FL and those who attend a church camp
ignatiusjreilly
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
0.5%
if everyone in the USA was vaccinated and 0.5% still died .... would you be ok with that ?
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Maybe it changes but it seems like outcomes are borderline miraculous at this point for the vaccines. Hard to understand why folks are so raw about it.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
That's 0.5% of the 9000 that died. That's 43 of the 9000 deaths. Overwhelmingly, its unvaccinated that are dying pertaining to that article.
Or you could be part of the other 99.5%.
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Apples and oranges. If 1.5% or so of cases die and .5% of those are vaccinated.....you need to move the decimal point over at least one place.
If everyone in the USA was vaccinated wouldn't 100% of Covid deaths be vaccinated?
moleculo
Footballguy
another way to put it: out of 12.6M fully vaccinated Texans, just 43 have died - 0.00034%.
As of March 1 (i.e. prior to mass vaccination), Texas had 44,199 deaths amongst a population of 12M - 0.15%.
I know these all seem like small numbers, but 0.15% is 447x bigger than 0.00034%. In other words, vaccinated Texans are 447x less likely to die vs unvaccinated.
Bad math alert: vaccinated Texans only have 4 months months worth of deaths vs a full year for COVID. If you account for that, it's closer to 149x (i.e. assuming if 43 die in 4 months, 129 would die in a year)
TL;DR: almost 150 times better off getting the jab.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
My wife and I got vaccinated because it was strongly suggested by our doctor that we should. But hey, great to know the numbers support our decision! Smart woman, our doctor.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
If covid-19 had broken out only five years or so earlier, it would have been an order of magnitude worse. We'd all be stuck with lousy old-school vaccines like Sinovac that just aren't very good. Take the arguments we're having today, and imagine instead that our vaccines are only like 50% effective with no hope for anything better on the horizon. That would have really sucked.
Instead we lucked out, in the sense that we just so happened to have invented mRNA technology literally like five minutes before some ####### WIV flunky forgot to wash his hands before punching out for the day. All of us should be walking around with big cheesy smiles on our faces because we're so happy with how lucky we got -- but no, instead we get anti-vaxxers who are absolutely dead set on looking that gift horse in the mouth.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
So what you're saying is that anyone who wants to get vaccinated can and they're at very minimal risk from those who aren't vaccinated.
The General
Footballguy
Jackstraw
Footballguy
Well society collectively has to pay some pretty significant costs for the unvaccinated. I mean the toll on our medical staff alone is horrid. Better yet financial costs, social costs etc etc. Potential for variants.
I too wish the unvaccinated were out on an island to suffer their consequences but it's just not the case.
What happened to "follow the science"?
https://www.newsweek.com/mask-mandate-issued-county-vaccinated-delta-surge-1613013
https://www.newsweek.com/mask-mandate-issued-county-vaccinated-delta-surge-1613013
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
...and I am guessing some of the loudest voices hollering about the "shutdowns" last year.
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