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Government Response To The Coronavirus


James Daulton

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7 minutes ago, Prinefan said:

Tests are under way right now for children from 3 months to 12 years old.  Shouldn't be too long now.  Would you want your children in an enclosed restaurant if you knew some of the customers in the same room with you are unvaccinated?

Wouldnt bother me. Just did this a few days ago with his whole baseball team

Edited by jobarules
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6 minutes ago, Biff84 said:

I view them as good as a pre-test. If it comes out positive, I’ll go get the deep swab. If negative, I’m still going to watch for symptoms and retest if they continue. Normally I wouldn’t bother with them but I’d like the peace of mind given the situation we’re going into.


Talking shop here:

Do you think a finger-stick home PCR test (or similar) is technologically feasible?

Edited by Doug B
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5 hours ago, supermike80 said:

So here's a question.  If the virus is very mild in people who have been vaccinated, how do they even know they have the virus?  If I get a cold(which some are reporting this feels like) I am not rushing out to get a covid test.

This isn't totally adding up.

I would get a Covid test if I had cold-like symptoms. I have also gotten a Covid test after being around people who have tested positive. This is how a couple family members who have been vaccinated and had no symptoms found out that they had it. 

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2 minutes ago, Dickies said:

I would get a Covid test if I had cold-like symptoms. I have also gotten a Covid test after being around people who have tested positive. This is how a couple family members who have been vaccinated and had no symptoms found out that they had it. 

Hmmm....To to be totally honest I never even considered it.   Not with a cold.  But I guess it does make sense somewhat?

Is that where we are now?  Now and forever anytime we get the sniffles we are off for a covid screen?

Oh well..If thats where we are, I'll play along

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3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Hmmm....To to be totally honest I never even considered it.   Not with a cold.  But I guess it does make sense somewhat?

Is that where we are now?  Now and forever anytime we get the sniffles we are off for a covid screen?

Oh well..If thats where we are, I'll play along

For me it’s not so much because I feel like I have a cold, it’s so that I know what I have and can prevent spreading Covid to others if I am positive. I also have young kids who aren’t old enough to vaccinate, so I would quarantine myself from them. 

Edited by Dickies
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39 minutes ago, jobarules said:
2 hours ago, massraider said:

NYT: " Mayor Blasio plans to announce that NYC will require proof of vaccination for participating in indoor activities, including restaurants, gyms and performances "Policy is similar to mandates issued in France and Italy last month. believed to be the first of its kind in US"

I hate this

‘it’s time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks’ - Kay Ivey

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The more I think about it the more I get really upset how some government officials framed "your choice" as the most important part of the message.  Smoking isn't treated Ike that. Suicide isn't treated like that. They're "your choice" too but nobody would say "We think you shouldn't commit suicide but hey, it's your choice!" Yes that is ludicrous but so is the fact that the most important thing is to strongly consider getting the vaccine.  

I've lost loved ones to this disease.  I'm so sorry to hear about your friend too BB. I just have had enough of the political games.  It's a new dark ages where science is treated like a horoscope. 

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21 minutes ago, Dickies said:

I have also gotten a Covid test after being around people who have tested positive. This is how a couple family members who have been vaccinated and had no symptoms found out that they had it. 


My wife was exposed at work this past Friday, and is having a PCR test later today. She has no symptoms ... but if she's had a breakthrough infection, we'll know soon.

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1 minute ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:

The more I think about it the more I get really upset how some government officials framed "your choice" as the most important part of the message.  Smoking isn't treated Ike that. Suicide isn't treated like that. They're "your choice" too but nobody would say "We think you shouldn't commit suicide but hey, it's your choice!" Yes that is ludicrous but so is the fact that the most important thing is to strongly consider getting the vaccine.  

Smoking and seat belts are the two comparisons for me. Remember when the seat belt laws were going into effect? There were people who tried making the argument that you were safer without them. Where are those people now?

Same with smoking. As recently as the 1990s we had people like Mike Pence still denying it caused cancer. People thought it was ridiculous to ban smoking indoors because they didn't believe second-hand smoke was really a public danger.

Both are good examples of confirmation bias. Look for the data that supports our preconceived conclusions. Some do the same with climate change data.

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Just now, Sand said:

Sweden hovering at 0 deaths per month.  Maybe they did do it right, after all.


The info is legit ... but Russia Times, my man?

...

The issue with Sweden is not where they've ended up, but what they had to pay to get there. To date:

Sweden: 108,374 case/M    1,438 deaths/M
Denmark: 54,915 case/M     439 deaths/M
Norway: 25,320 case/M     146 deaths/M
Finland: 19,524 case/M    177 deaths/M

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Europe's reaction to vaccine passes

 

"Denmark pioneered vaccine passes with little resistance. Belgium will require a vaccine certificate to attend outdoor events with more than 1,500 people by mid-August and indoor events by September. Germany and Britain have so far resisted a blanket approach, while vaccinations are so popular in Spain that incentives are not deemed necessary.

In France and Italy, demonstrations against vaccine passes or virus restrictions in general are bringing together otherwise unlikely allies, often from the political extremes. They include far-right parties, campaigners for economic justice, families with small children, those against vaccines and those who fear them."

 

Quote

 

Some protesters in Italy and France have worn yellow Stars of David, like those the Nazis required Jews to wear during World War II.

Oh for Pete's sake. We really need to improve everyone's knowledge of history, and maybe we can all start making better historic comparisons.  

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2 minutes ago, massraider said:

Oh for Pete's sake. We really need to improve everyone's knowledge of history, and maybe we can all start making better historic comparisons.  

Of all natural laws, it seems Godwin's Law is the most immutable.

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1 minute ago, Amused to Death said:

Smoking and seat belts are the two comparisons for me. Remember when the seat belt laws were going into effect? There were people who tried making the argument that you were safer without them. Where are those people now?

Same with smoking. As recently as the 1990s we had people like Mike Pence still denying it caused cancer. People thought it was ridiculous to ban smoking indoors because they didn't believe second-hand smoke was really a public danger.

Both are good examples of confirmation bias. Look for the data that supports our preconceived conclusions. Some do the same with climate change data.

Exactly.  I mentioned suicide as a hyperbolic extreme but it's all the same.  

I guess it sets me off even more that at the doctor yesterday for my annual the gal in front of me was asked if she was vaccinated. She said no, it's my choice not to and laughed. I heard her give her birth date, she was 54.  If I would have guessed I would have said close to 70.  Overweight, couldn't stand without loudly moaning in misery.  It's so dang dumb. 

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3 minutes ago, massraider said:

Europe's reaction to vaccine passes

 

"Denmark pioneered vaccine passes with little resistance. Belgium will require a vaccine certificate to attend outdoor events with more than 1,500 people by mid-August and indoor events by September. Germany and Britain have so far resisted a blanket approach, while vaccinations are so popular in Spain that incentives are not deemed necessary.

In France and Italy, demonstrations against vaccine passes or virus restrictions in general are bringing together otherwise unlikely allies, often from the political extremes. They include far-right parties, campaigners for economic justice, families with small children, those against vaccines and those who fear them."

 

Oh for Pete's sake. We really need to improve everyone's knowledge of history, and maybe we can all start making better historic comparisons.  

These comparisons started here in the US last year.  It's sickening. 

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1 hour ago, Prinefan said:

Tests are under way right now for children from 3 months to 12 years old.  Shouldn't be too long now.  Would you want your children in an enclosed restaurant if you knew some of the customers in the same room with you are unvaccinated?

 

And this is why you should be concerned because it will mutate to attack kids more seriously if we let it

 

 

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2 hours ago, Doug B said:


Talking shop here:

Do you think a finger-stick home PCR test (or similar) is technologically feasible?


I don’t have a definite answer but I’d guess that it would be tough to develop something that would keep the specificity of a PCR test while being readily available for home use. But I have no expertise in the area.

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For those who know people who have had breakthrough infections, are any of them reporting the loss of taste or smell? Seems like that was the most telltale sign of the previous wave but not hearing that as much now. 

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2 hours ago, Doug B said:


The info is legit ... but Russia Times, my man?

...

The issue with Sweden is not where they've ended up, but what they had to pay to get there. To date:

Sweden: 108,374 case/M    1,438 deaths/M
Denmark: 54,915 case/M     439 deaths/M
Norway: 25,320 case/M     146 deaths/M
Finland: 19,524 case/M    177 deaths/M

Wow.  So funny Doug!   This was comedy gold evidently, at least for @Sand.

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2 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Well, perhaps if every eligible person got vaccinated it wouldn't be an issue.

Children under 12 are not eligible. Even if both parents are vaccinated now the family can't goto a restaurant. 

Again this sucks for restaurants 

Edited by jobarules
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12 minutes ago, Doug B said:


I thought he laugh-emojied his Russia Times link :shrug: Kind of like he was acknowledging a self-own.

I never know what people are laughing at, which is why the simple emoji is a poor way of communicating.  Apologies to Sand if I misinterpreted.

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16 minutes ago, jobarules said:

Children under 12 are not eligible. Even if both parents are vaccinated now the family can't goto a restaurant. 

Again this sucks for restaurants 

If every adult and kid 12+ was vaccinated, our level of community spread would be very close to zero.  Which would make it safe for unvaccinated kids to be in restaurants.  Science.  Math.  Logic.

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7 minutes ago, Alex P Keaton said:

If every adult and kid 12+ was vaccinated, our level of community spread would be very close to zero.  Which would make it safe for unvaccinated kids to be in restaurants.  Science.  Math.  Logic.

Delta is infecting vaccinated people and vaccinated people are spreading delta so not sure you can say that. Cities like LA and NYC have among the highest vaccination rates plus the highest previous infections yet the case positivity rate keeps rising. Your statement does not compute with what's going on.

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3 minutes ago, jobarules said:

Delta is infecting vaccinated people and vaccinated people are spreading delta so not sure you can say that.


While both true statements, the rates of transmission are not established to be the same. I'd need to see something that establishes that Delta transmits through vaccinated folks exactly as it does through unvaccinated people.

The "same viral count in the nasopharynx" thing the CDC reported last week doesn't establish that transmission rates are similar between the vaccinated and unvaccinated (though I admit to being taken in by the preliminaty, since-walked-back reporting on this topic). 

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1 hour ago, Alex P Keaton said:

Wow.  So funny Doug!   This was comedy gold evidently, at least for @Sand.

I was laughing at the Russia Times comment.  I mean, it was factual stuff, but it was funny.  

Yeah, not laughing at death statistics.  That's not cool. 

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3 hours ago, Doug B said:


The info is legit ... but Russia Times, my man?

...

The issue with Sweden is not where they've ended up, but what they had to pay to get there. To date:

Sweden: 108,374 case/M    1,438 deaths/M
Denmark: 54,915 case/M     439 deaths/M
Norway: 25,320 case/M     146 deaths/M
Finland: 19,524 case/M    177 deaths/M

Have you compared immigration, travel, demographics, etc? 

 

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54 minutes ago, jobarules said:

Delta is infecting vaccinated people and vaccinated people are spreading delta so not sure you can say that. Cities like LA and NYC have among the highest vaccination rates plus the highest previous infections yet the case positivity rate keeps rising. Your statement does not compute with what's going on.

My statement is far more logical than "hey, everyone just go out to dinner without being vaccinated."  Which seems to be the alternative offered up right now.

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3 hours ago, Biff84 said:

For those who know people who have had breakthrough infections, are any of them reporting the loss of taste or smell? Seems like that was the most telltale sign of the previous wave but not hearing that as much now. 

Yes for my bro & SIL.

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3 hours ago, Biff84 said:

For those who know people who have had breakthrough infections, are any of them reporting the loss of taste or smell? Seems like that was the most telltale sign of the previous wave but not hearing that as much now. 

So far I know of 4 breakthrough cases.  One required a hospital stay, but was released pretty quickly and her symptoms subsided rather quickly.  One lost her sense of smell and taste for a couple days, but is back to normal.  The other two were entirely asymptomatic, but got tested because they were around the person who got sent to the hospital.

Contrast that to my anti-vaxxer neighbors.  11 have tested positive within the last week and a half.  All 11 saying it's the sickest they've ever been in their lives.  4 of them are currently in the hospital, 1 of which is in the ICU and not doing well at all.  Of those 11, four of them are teenagers.  Two of the teenagers are in the hospital.

I went until about October of last year until I even knew of anyone who tested positive.  It's shocking that it seemed like we were turning the corner on this thing, but in the last two weeks I've known more people to test positive than at any point.  I've also gotten myself tested more than the entirety of the pandemic because the people I am around keep informing me that they have been in contact with someone who tested positive.

One thing that is a common denominator from all of these cases except one is that they seemed to originate from large gatherings.  The 4 breakthrough cases were from the celebrity golf tournament in South Lake Tahoe, and the neighbors originated from a trip to Disneyland.

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15 minutes ago, Dickies said:

So far I know of 4 breakthrough cases.  One required a hospital stay, but was released pretty quickly and her symptoms subsided rather quickly.  One lost her sense of smell and taste for a couple days, but is back to normal.  The other two were entirely asymptomatic, but got tested because they were around the person who got sent to the hospital.

Contrast that to my anti-vaxxer neighbors.  11 have tested positive within the last week and a half.  All 11 saying it's the sickest they've ever been in their lives.  4 of them are currently in the hospital, 1 of which is in the ICU and not doing well at all.  Of those 11, four of them are teenagers.  Two of the teenagers are in the hospital.

I went until about October of last year until I even knew of anyone who tested positive.  It's shocking that it seemed like we were turning the corner on this thing, but in the last two weeks I've known more people to test positive than at any point.  I've also gotten myself tested more than the entirety of the pandemic because the people I am around keep informing me that they have been in contact with someone who tested positive.

One thing that is a common denominator from all of these cases except one is that they seemed to originate from large gatherings.  The 4 breakthrough cases were from the celebrity golf tournament in South Lake Tahoe, and the neighbors originated from a trip to Disneyland.


Yeah it has seemed to get out of hand extremely quickly the last couple weeks. Lot of people sick or trying to find testing.

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1 hour ago, whoknew said:

The CDC expanded its eviction moratorium until October 3. Ugh.

😡

Amazing. Can't put us citizens on the streets because it's a public health emergency but 1000s of migrants a week pouring into the country and that's NOT a public health emergency.

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2 hours ago, whoknew said:

The CDC expanded its eviction moratorium until October 3. Ugh.

And this is why the Kavanaugh opinion was so stupid - either uphold it with the liberals or toss it out with the conservatives.  Instead we got the nonsensical they don't have the power but it's expiring anyway so yolo opinion, and now we'll have another protracted legal fight because they didn't resolve the issue the first time.

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https://www.foxnews.com/health/pfizer-jj-react-covid-19-breakthrough-infections

Quote

Following recent outbreaks in Massachusetts, in which nearly three-quarters of some 469 COVID-19 cases occurred in fully vaccinated individuals, federal officials involved with the country’s COVID-19 response and some vaccine drugmakers are emphasizing that the shots remain protective against serious outcomes.

 

funny, drugmakers were emphasizing vaccines were protective against covid except in very very rare instances too ... well they were until the breakthrough's wasn't very very anymore. 

now to be fair they also said

Quote

 

"Of the 469 cases of breakthrough infections observed in the town in Barnstable County, Massachusetts, only 1.2% were hospitalized. As of July 27, no deaths were reported in the cases the CDC studied, which is a sign vaccination is working as intended," the statement continues.


 

 

Of the unvaccinated I wonder if the % hospitalized is about the same or worse. Also, we don't know the age groups - if all the 469 were under 50, very very small % chance they'd be hospitalized anyway. over 55 or 60 and the % changes dramatically

 

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1 hour ago, Max Power said:

Why is the CDC the entity doing this?

 

Its argument is that "mass evictions" would be a public health crisis.

The real answer is its the only possible way they can do it without legislation. But, of course, it will still be challenged.

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4 minutes ago, joffer said:

Gov. Asa Hutchinson (R-AR) says he regrets signing law banning local mask mandates, as COVID cases quickly rise in his state.

“In hindsight, I wish that had not become law,” said Hutchinson, who has asked lawmakers to allow school districts to adopt mask mandates.

 

 

oops.  Sorry.  :shrug:

 

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