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Never Biden Movement (1 Viewer)

msudaisy26 said:
He is moving left to get votes. I highly doubt he tries to move any policies left if gets elected. 
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This is my concern too.  

Again though, I'll at least hear him out on it... if he assigns people I trust (or at least kind of trust) to positions where they can make change I'll believe it a little more. As I mentioned earlier... Pick a VP with a progressive record, Tulsi on Wars, Warren on healthcare, get Yang involved if UBI becomes a permanent thing, work with Bernie on strengthening unions, etc then I'll have more trust in him.

If he picks another centrist VP and it sounds like it'll be Jamie Dimon and John Brennan in high profile positions... yea, pass. 

 
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KiddLattimer said:
This is my concern too.  

Again though, I'll at least hear him out on it... if he assigns people I trust (or at least kind of trust) to positions where they can make change I'll believe it a little more. As I mentioned earlier... Pick a VP with a progressive record, Tulsi on Wars, Warren on healthcare, get Yang involved if UBI becomes a permanent thing, work with Bernie on strengthening unions, etc then I'll have more trust in him.

If he picks another centrist VP and it sounds like it'll be Jamie Dimon and John Brennan in high profile positions... yea, pass. 
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You say these are "people you trust", but that trust ends when they ask you to vote for Biden?

 
msudaisy26 said:
If you need our votes, but refuse to give us something or a decent candidate then you don't deserve to win. You can't blame Bernie supporters when you continue to put horrible candidates and wonder why independents don't vote for them. 
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Like I said, enjoy your next 4 years of Trump.

 
msudaisy26 said:
If you need our votes, but refuse to give us something or a decent candidate then you don't deserve to win. You can't blame Bernie supporters when you continue to put horrible candidates and wonder why independents don't vote for them. 
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If you want MFA, the worst thing you can do is vote Biden.  Voting him is the equivalent of saying "please keep ignoring my causes".   

 
tommyGunZ said:
You say these are "people you trust", but that trust ends when they ask you to vote for Biden?
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Correct. The fact that they're endorsing him gets me in the door to listen to him. Now it's his job to earn my vote.... by putting people I trust in positions where they can actually do the things I care about. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
He is moving left to get votes. I highly doubt he tries to move any policies left if gets elected. 
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Perhaps. He will most likely have hard time getting much done and will force resistance at every step. Exactly like if Bernie won.

You know who absolutely has zero chance of doing anything to help progressive causes and will work hand in glove with Mitch and the gang to destroy anything remotely progressive?

 
The General said:
You know who absolutely has zero chance of doing anything to help progressive causes and will work hand in glove with Mitch and the gang to destroy anything remotely progressive?
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I don't know why this is so hard for you people.  I don't want to "vote against" something that sucks.  I want to vote FOR something that I want.  I don't want Joe Biden.  I didn't want Hillary Clinton.  I don't want Donald Trump. 

I don't want them because they perpetuate everything I hate about Washington.  And I'm not going to contribute to this bleak deadender pathology by throwing all my principles out the window just to get Joe Biden in there, on the offchance he sucks less than Trump.  It's not good enough anymore.  

I know who Joe Biden is.  I reject his entire body of work, his constant lying, his creepy demeanor towards women and children.  I am going 3rd party/Independent or staying home.

If the Democrats lose to Trump, oh well, sucks for them, maybe they should have thought about that before lining up behind Joe Biden.  This is the candidate Democratic primary voters chose at this moment in history?  Great, good for them, good luck with their "never trumpers".  Tired of being jerked around like the two-party race to the bottom is our fault.  

 
Golf Guy 69 said:
If it mattered so much, maybe Obama should have fought for his SCJ.  But let's not blame him, let's blame the people with no power.  
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Hey guess what I actually voted for Bernie on Super Tuesday.  But I believe his ideas are bigger then the man. 4 years of Trump has pushed us farther from those ideas from becoming a reality. 4 more years of Trump will make it even farther from reality.  But you guys go ahead and set this out.

 
The General said:
Perhaps. He will most likely have hard time getting much done and will force resistance at every step. Exactly like if Bernie won.

You know who absolutely has zero chance of doing anything to help progressive causes and will work hand in glove with Mitch and the gang to destroy anything remotely progressive?
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I hope you ain't talking Trump. 

 
ren hoek said:
I don't know why this is so hard for you people.  I don't want to "vote against" something that sucks.  I want to vote FOR something that I want.  I don't want Joe Biden.  I didn't want Hillary Clinton.  I don't want Donald Trump. 

I don't want them because they perpetuate everything I hate about Washington.  And I'm not going to contribute to this bleak deadender pathology by throwing all my principles out the window just to get Joe Biden in there, on the offchance he sucks less than Trump.  It's not good enough anymore.  

I know who Joe Biden is.  I reject his entire body of work, his constant lying, his creepy demeanor towards women and children.  I am going 3rd party/Independent or staying home.

If the Democrats lose to Trump, oh well, sucks for them, maybe they should have thought about that before lining up behind Joe Biden.  This is the candidate Democratic primary voters chose at this moment in history?  Great, good for them, good luck with their "never trumpers".  Tired of being jerked around like the two-party race to the bottom is our fault.  
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This is unpossible.

What you want or I want or anyone wants is separate from what you will get. There are 2 choices now.

Bernie is telling you go with Biden. Not sure what else to tell you.

 
ren hoek said:
No, you’re wrong.   And if that’s the way people think, they’re the impediment to progress, not Trump.  
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Tell me, in reality, how we don't have 2 choices now. You get Biden you get Trump. If you fail to see a difference between the two I guess we have a to disagree there.

 
The General said:
The courts being shaped, environmental regulations, just having to listen to this dude's nonsense, etc...this is what we are picking now. 
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You're arguing for environmental regulation and care by supporting Joe Biden. Listen to yourself. This entire situation is your (and not only your) fault.

 
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Leroy Hoard said:
Like I said, enjoy your next 4 years of Trump.
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Yeah, this is why we liberals can't have nice things.  These purity tests and attempts to paint a long time liberal like Biden as = to Trump by folks on the progressive left is self defeating.  You make progress when you bring coalitions together, and that necessarily means everyone has to compromise.  It's frustrating when folks don't understand that 

 
tommyGunZ said:
Yeah, this is why we liberals can't have nice things.  These purity tests and attempts to paint a long time liberal like Biden as = to Trump by folks on the progressive left is self defeating.  You make progress when you bring coalitions together, and that necessarily means everyone has to compromise.  It's frustrating when folks don't understand that 
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And because of their "wisdom", we get treated to 4 more years of this crap.

 
ShamrockPride said:
You're arguing for environmental regulation and care by supporting Joe Biden. Listen to yourself. This entire situation is your (and not only your) fault.
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Absolutely.  Because regardless of what you personally believe Joe Biden thinks about the environment, I guarantee you his administration will be 100X more competent and progressive than a 2nd Trump term, where we'll continue to actually go backwards on climate issues.  

 
tommyGunZ said:
Absolutely.  Because regardless of what you personally believe Joe Biden thinks about the environment, I guarantee you his administration will be 100X more competent and progressive than a 2nd Trump term, where we'll continue to actually go backwards on climate issues.  
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Inadequacy is not a substitute for failure.

 
The General said:
Tell me, in reality, how we don't have 2 choices now. You get Biden you get Trump. If you fail to see a difference between the two I guess we have a to disagree there.
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Because you don't have to pick one of them.  Nothing is making you pull the trigger for bad candidates except braindead 2-party logic.  Just because other voters jump off the bridge doesn't mean you have to as well.  

If people think there's a meaningful difference between the Republican and Democratic parties at this point, two sellout bought corporate parties that are really functionaries of a 1-party warfare state, then I think they misunderstand the real nature of political power.  Biden's faintly liberal window dressing- again, his record is hard-right with very tepid and very delayed support for left/social ideas- is not fooling anybody.  I would rather they bask in the failure of 8 years of Trump than give my support to a corrupt candidate that I don't believe in.  

If their answer to Trump is Joe Biden, then they can go lose to Trump.  Again good luck with Rick Wilson

 
ren hoek said:
Because you don't have to pick one of them.  Nothing is making you pull the trigger for bad candidates except braindead 2-party logic.  Just because other voters jump off the bridge doesn't mean you have to as well.  

If people think there's a meaningful difference between the Republican and Democratic parties at this point, two sellout bought corporate parties that are really functionaries of a 1-party warfare state, then I think they misunderstand the real nature of political power.  Biden's faintly liberal window dressing- again, his record is hard-right with very tepid and very delayed support for left/social ideas- is not fooling anybody.  I would rather they bask in the failure of 8 years of Trump than give my support to a corrupt candidate that I don't believe in.  

If their answer to Trump is Joe Biden, then they can go lose to Trump.  Again good luck with Rick Wilson
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I respect all the thought you put into this and enjoy reading it. I completely disagree with there being no meaningful difference between the parties, think that's pretty ridiculous. They aren't as different as you would like. 

 
Mile High said:
Hey guess what I actually voted for Bernie on Super Tuesday.  But I believe his ideas are bigger then the man. 4 years of Trump has pushed us farther from those ideas from becoming a reality. 4 more years of Trump will make it even farther from reality.  But you guys go ahead and set this out.
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Neither Trump or Corporate Dems do much monetarily to help the people that need it.  You will see little difference from Wall Street Joe or Trump where it matters.  

 
You all need to ask yourself one question.  If Obama and Corporate Dems were so great for the country, how did we end up with Trump?

 
Golf Guy 69 said:
Neither are establishment.  The right lines up behind Trump because he had the best shot.  The left lined up behind HRC again, basically.
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How does this support the idea that Bernie voters would pick Trump over any Democrat. Makes very little sense. Other than you just want a ####show.

 
ren hoek said:
Because you don't have to pick one of them.  Nothing is making you pull the trigger for bad candidates except braindead 2-party logic.  Just because other voters jump off the bridge doesn't mean you have to as well.  

If people think there's a meaningful difference between the Republican and Democratic parties at this point, two sellout bought corporate parties that are really functionaries of a 1-party warfare state, then I think they misunderstand the real nature of political power.  Biden's faintly liberal window dressing- again, his record is hard-right with very tepid and very delayed support for left/social ideas- is not fooling anybody.  I would rather they bask in the failure of 8 years of Trump than give my support to a corrupt candidate that I don't believe in.  

If their answer to Trump is Joe Biden, then they can go lose to Trump.  Again good luck with Rick Wilson
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Again, you're ignoring non-partisan groups who have scored Biden a "hard core liberal" based on his voting record, public comments, and platform.  The idea that he isn't any different than Trump ideologically is absolute nonsense.  

 
sho nuff said:
That does not explain voting for someone as bad as Trump.  Hence the question.  But clear that isn’t really what you are here for.  So...im done.
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So your opinion that Trump is worse than Biden and nothing else matters, got it.

I think it is immoral for the richest country in the world to not have free healthcare for all their citizens.  IMO 4 more years of Trump gets us closer to M4A that most Americans want.  I know, radical stuff.  At least with Trump he is too unfiltered to hide his biases.  Joe, will says he cares but really doesn't IMO.

Plus he has been pro WAR.

 
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tommyGunZ said:
Again, you're ignoring non-partisan groups who have scored Biden a "hard core liberal" based on his voting record, public comments, and platform.  The idea that he isn't any different than Trump ideologically is absolute nonsense.  
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There is no way they are using his voting record for this and labeling him a hard core liberal. Or their definition of hard core liberal isn't the same as the rest us. He is going to run on the platform he feels get him the most votes. He flip flops on the issues almost as much as Hillary. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
If you need our votes, but refuse to give us something or a decent candidate then you don't deserve to win. You can't blame Bernie supporters when you continue to put horrible candidates and wonder why independents don't vote for them. 
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If you want this nation to move forward (to progress) it is not ever going to happen when you throw your vote into the trash can because your preferred candidate is not an option.  Not voting at all is not better than picking the candidate that is "only barely better",  it is thwarting what you want.   Voting for a third party that is apparently better because they are enough of an unknown that you don't know enough about them to realize how horrible they are (see Johnson and Stein last cycles) is also thwarting the progress you want.  Tiny steps might be frustrating, no they are frustrating but change happens painfully slow until the right minute hits and it happens all at once.   Right now might have been one of those moments where the conditions are right for some form of Medicare for All or a UBI trial run with someone that was "only slightly better" leading us rather than Trump.  But I guess enough progressives felt it was more important to reject Hillary, to reject the establishment, to reject the center left, etc than to plant a few more seeds for the world they want.  Such a shame!

 
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