Ghost Rider
Footballguy
Good to see that arrests were made.
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Murder of Ahmaud Arbery (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Sweet J
- Start date
pantherclub
Footballguy
Except you kindof are. It looks to me like the jogger was running on the left side of the truck saw the man and then went wide left then it appears he sees the gun and makes a play for it.
I certainly hope there isn't a legitimate self-defense case to be made when you hunt down someone with your guns drawn. As someone who viewed the Zimmerman case as a political railroading of a case that had no business going to trial, this is quite the opposite and should result in a conviction.
pantherclub
Footballguy
Almost identical narratives in the initial reporting. This one the facts actually line up.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
pantherclub
Footballguy
You simply cannot be armed and chase people and put them in a scary situation no matter what you think they may have done. These guys deserve jail but its Georgia so i have my doubts.
pantherclub
Footballguy
It seals the deal of guilt IMO. They allegedly tried to stop him twice before and then they stop in the middle of the street one guy with a shotgun one in the bed with a pistol. The jogger tries to run away but is confronted with teh shotgun guy. This isnt rocket science of what happened. Those dudes deserve hard time.
Absolutely in this case. Having a legally concealed weapon undrawn is a different case.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
I think by now, with the actions he has shown after the incident that George Z was a d bag that instigated the entire thing and more than likely had his gun drawn while hunting TM
Being a d bag has nothing to do with it. The facts of the case overwhelmingly supported self-defense.
Challenge Everything
Footballguy
If I see a guy running on the street, grab my gun to go "investigate," brandish and display said gun to the runner, with a vehicle and another passenger, I'm not there to "talk." I don't grab a weapon to "talk." I don't hop in a truck and chase someone down to "talk." And, I don't get out of my vehicle to "talk."
pantherclub
Footballguy
No worries man we are going to have to agree to disagree. We got one side of it because the other is dead. And like I said Zimmy in his actions afterwards showed he has some mental deficiency. I 100% believe he is to blame for the death of TM and he went looking for a confrontation simply because he had a gun
Amused to Death
Footballguy
There's some stinky bait being thrown around to derail this thread.
Gregory McMichael apparently was a police office in the 80s, and was an investigator in the DA's office for 20 years prior to retiring last year. As an investigator he was not allowed to make arrests.
My guess is his involvement in law enforcement will keep him protected. Maybe he'll get a few years for this murder but my expectations are low.
Here is a quote from the existing DA who has 'recused himself' from the case:
"It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived," Barnhill said. "Under Georgia law, this is perfectly legal."
My guess is his involvement in law enforcement will keep him protected. Maybe he'll get a few years for this murder but my expectations are low.
Here is a quote from the existing DA who has 'recused himself' from the case:
"It appears their intent was to stop and hold this criminal suspect until law enforcement arrived," Barnhill said. "Under Georgia law, this is perfectly legal."
Correct.
ETA: Think they will argue they thought they had witnessed him shoplifting.
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Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Without the video, we would have the same skepticism due to innate biases that we see in other situations.
HellToupee
Footballguy
I read he was a lawyer and wasn’t the person who took the video. Seems like their defense is showing the poor victim throwing a punch and trying to get the rifle. Absolutely insane
PinkydaPimp
Footballguy
When you have a history of getting off you just get used to it. I’m sure they still feel they won’t get convicted and tbh it wouldn’t shock me in the least. Hell they would have never been arrested if it didn’t go viral.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
urbanhack
Fight The Power!
dkp993
Footballguy
This is simply not true Jon. Without this video these guys don’t get arrested, hell they didn’t get arrested with the video. It took until it went viral before action was taken.
kwille
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I thought I read that to perform a citizen's arrest, you have to have witnessed the person committing a crime and not just because you suspect someone committed a crime. No clue if that is true but it makes sense.
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dkp993
Footballguy
Dinsy Ejotuz
Footballguy
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The facts of the case are these two men did not witness Arbrey committing a felony and had no right to make a citizen arrest. They in fact were committing a felony in using weapons try to apprehend and have no legal ground to base a stand your ground self-defense for the killing. There is no need for the video to establish any of this. All that was needed is a competent prosecutor. The original DA seemed to have had a bias. This case is in stark contrast to what went on in Florida.
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dkp993
Footballguy
I’m made no comparison to Florida so that is irrelevant. While I agree with the facts of the case as you outline them what is also a fact is they did not get arrested, with every single fact you stated not in question, until this video went viral and the original DA THEN recused himself. Had the video not been around the original DA would still be the lead and those dirtbags would be free right now. The video is paramount unfortunately.
I believe that this case was high-profile enough and the undisputed facts would have eventually prevailed. But that is speculation and my opinion. The video definitely did expedite it.
Here's a quote from him mom, hard to believe this is 2020, although cops protecting their own I'm sure happens all the time.
Wanda Cooper-Jones: The night of this initially happening was February 23. I was called by local authorities and an investigator for the Glynn County Police department had told me Ahmaud was involved in a burglary and that there was a confrontation between Ahmaud and the homeowners and that in the confrontation, a struggle began and Ahmaud was killed. He did not share that they came after him in a pickup truck at all. That’s all he really told me. Naturally I was in shock. I didn’t ask any more questions at that time.
Wanda Cooper-Jones: The night of this initially happening was February 23. I was called by local authorities and an investigator for the Glynn County Police department had told me Ahmaud was involved in a burglary and that there was a confrontation between Ahmaud and the homeowners and that in the confrontation, a struggle began and Ahmaud was killed. He did not share that they came after him in a pickup truck at all. That’s all he really told me. Naturally I was in shock. I didn’t ask any more questions at that time.
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bigbottom
Footballguy
HellToupee
Footballguy
GBI reviewing additional video footage in Ahmaud Arbery case
GBI agents in the Ahmaud Arbery murder investigation are reviewing additional video from the Glynn County neighborhood where he was shot to death as they piece together the minutes before the fatal confrontation that has drawn national attention to Georgia and its justice system.
Investigators are reviewing the tape, recorded minutes before the Feb. 23 killing, to gain a better understanding of what transpired before the shooting.
“We are using video to put the timeline together to fill in the blanks of what happened that afternoon,” said Scott Dutton, GBI’s Deputy Director of investigations.
The digital video file was obtained by The Atlanta Journal-Constitution from a source outside the GBI on Friday, and investigators confirmed it was part of the case file when the agency entered the case on Tuesday.
"We are indeed reviewing additional video footage and photographs as part of the active case," the GBI said in a statement Saturday afternoon, several hours after the AJC’s article about the video posted online. "It is important to note that this footage was reviewed at the beginning of the GBI investigation and before the arrests of Gregory and Travis McMichael."
The video appears to be from a home security camera installed at a house about a block from the shooting.
A former Fulton County prosecutor who reviewed the video on Saturday said it doesn’t appear to alter the criminal questions facing the two men arrested in the case.
Lawyers representing Arbery’s family said in a Saturday statement that the security camera video proves Arbery did nothing wrong prior to the fatal encounter: “Ahmaud Arbery did not take part in any felony, had no illegal substances in his system, was not armed yet was shot three times with a shotgun at close range.”
Arbery’s family said he liked to jog in the area. One of the armed men who confronted Arbery that day later told police they pursued him because they thought he had been involved in earlier break-ins in the neighborhood.
» COMPLETE COVERAGE: Ahmaud Arbery shooting
The video shows a man wearing a white shirt and shorts, who appears to be Arbery, 25, walking down Satilla Drive on that Sunday afternoon. It shows the man walk into the garage of a house under construction and then walk around back of the house. The tape indicates that man was on the construction site less than five minutes, much of the time out of view of the camera. He did not appear to take anything from the house.
Soon after the figure in shorts and t-shirt enters the construction property, a man wearing what appears to be overalls walks near a stand of trees across the street from the site and the figure appears to be observing the construction site.
A minute later, after a car passes, a figure that appears to be Arbery comes out of a front door of the house quickly and runs down the road in the direction of Travis McMichael’s home on Satilla Drive.
McMichael, 34, and his father, Gregory McMichael, 64, were charged Thursday with felony murder and aggravated assault by the GBI.
The surveillance video appears to describe what a witness reported to police on a 911 call. At 1:08 pm that Sunday, the Glynn County 911 center received report that a man was in the house under construction.
The dispatcher responded: “And you said someone is breaking into it right now?
“No,” the caller said. “It’s all open, it’s under construction. And he’s running right now! There he goes right now.”
“OK,” the dispatcher asked. “What is he doing?”
“He’s running down the street.”
The dispatcher said she would send police.
Six minutes later another caller called 911 to say, “There’s a black male running down the street.”
The security video shows a person, who appears to be Arbery, continuing down Satilla Drive. Former Fulton prosecutor Manny Arora, who reviewed the video, said entry of a construction site is not necessarily a crime. At most, it may be a misdemeanor, unless anything was taken, he said.
Georgia law allows for a citizen’s arrest in a felony crime committed in one’s presence, said Arora, who is currently a criminal defense attorney in Atlanta. But a citizen can only use reasonable force to detain a person and deadly force cannot be used unless it’s to prevent a forcible felony or for self-defense.
Since the McMichaels initiated the confrontation with the weapons it will be difficult for them to claim self-defense and what appears on the security video doesn’t justify their actions, he said. The footage also demonstrates that police were not far from the neighborhood when the incident occurred, he said.
“If you initiate an assault you don’t get then claim self-defense if the other person reacts to them being assaulted,” Arora said. “From the information we have right now, this video doesn’t change the basis for the arrest.”
At the distant periphery of the video, two people can be seen around a parked pickup truck in a driveway a a few houses down from the construction site. The driveway is at or near Travis McMichael’s house.
Gregory McMichael told police that he was in the front yard when he saw “the suspect from the break-ins ‘hauling ###’ down Satilla Drive.”
Gregory McMichael ran in the house to alert his son, Travis McMichael. The men armed themselves and went after Arbery, according to Gregory McMichael’s police statement.
The McMichaels told police that they had decided to arm themselves and pursue Arbery because they suspected him of committing burglaries in the Satilla Shores neighborhood. They also told police they had seen Arbery on earlier surveillance tapes and were concerned that he could be armed because they said they saw him on another occasion sticking “his hand down his pants.”
Glynn County police records include no recent reports of house burglaries in Satilla Shores. The only report of that kind was a Jan. 1 theft of a handgun stolen from an unlocked truck parked at McMichael’s house.
On the video, the truck, which resembles the one driven by the McMichaels, can be seen driving off in the same direction Arbery had run. The man in the overalls walks down the street and appears to motion toward the truck.
Four minutes after the truck drives off, a police cruiser is seen on the video driving in same direction. Minutes later another cruiser drives by, followed by an EMT truck, a fire truck with lights flashing and more police cruisers speeding by.
A block away, out of view of the home surveillance video, the confrontation with the McMichaels had left Arbery dead on the pavement.
A video made public Tuesday, which has gone viral worldwide, shows Arbery running at a jogger’s pace on a road in the neighborhood. He slows as he approaches Travis McMichael’s truck, which blocked the street in front of him.
A struggle ensues as the McMichaels confront Arbery and three shots are fired. Arbery moves a few feet and collapses onto the asphalt.
After the case stalled for two-and-a-half months as two prosecutors recused themselves because of conflicts of interests, the GBI arrested the father and son Thursday afternoon after reviewing the case for less than two days.
GBI Director Vic Reynolds said Friday that his agency received the case Tuesday night and began investigating Wednesday. By Thursday afternoon agents had concluded they had sufficient evidence to charge the two men.
“I can tell you there was more than sufficient probable cause in this case,” he said. Both men are in the Glynn County jail after a judge refused to free them on bond Friday afternoon.
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this paints a fuller picture if accurate, still no reason to die
The first two DA's had connections to the shooter. Last Tuesday the second DA finally recused himself, and handed the case to GBI, who acted swiftly and made the arrests. We can speculate if the video caused it or what, it seems related. There was also mounting pressure as the public pressure in this case as this thread, news coverage and even my facebook feeds show. As soon as a competent/unconnected prosecutor got involved there were going to be charges filed. A self-defense argument in this case is very unlikely to stand in court.
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Not odd at all. The facts in the case as seemingly testified to by the defendants, do not support a legitimate self-defense plea. They had two DA's provided cover for them by making incorrect conclusions based on the facts. Of course the tapes are useful and verify what is known and will prevent the defendants from trying to invent a scenario that is defensible. But the tapes are not necessary to get a conviction. Charges were brought almost immediately once the GBI was brought in. The defendants already convicted themselves.
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pantherclub
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
this isn't any more or less worse than a couple of black people killing a white person ... or a couple of white people killing a white or a couple of blacks killing a black or a couple of latino people killing a black/white/latino ....
this is a story because it can be used to fan the fires of racism and make a national "story"
it looks to me, on the surface, two people kill a person in cold blood and they need a quick death penalty ... that's what I see without knowing more
this is a story because it can be used to fan the fires of racism and make a national "story"
it looks to me, on the surface, two people kill a person in cold blood and they need a quick death penalty ... that's what I see without knowing more
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Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Among other differences this invokes an earlier time when blacks could be lynched without a trial by whites.
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Now that the state has it there will be no issues. The county does look like it was covering for these two, most likely because the father worked with them for many years but there could very well be a racial slant to it also. The police report was grossly slanted and the DA's reasoning for not pressing charges was a legally incorrect interpretation of the law. It was shady. I think beyond these two men, the actions of the police and DA need to be questioned.
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gianmarco
Footballguy
Arbery seen at construction site before his death
Oof. Hate that this will now likely complicate the situation even though it in no way justifies his murder.
Oof. Hate that this will now likely complicate the situation even though it in no way justifies his murder.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Ditto. I’ve walked around random construction sites before. It’s not uncommon behavior.
bigbottom
Footballguy
It’s a story because:
1) The two charged individuals were, by all appearances, law abiding citizens who armed themselves and chased down someone who they concluded was a criminal suspect simply because he (a) was black; and (b) was running in the street.
2) The local DA’s office had declined to charge them even though there is wide consensus that they should be charged.
You’re right that this isn’t necessarily any better or worse than another situation where two people murder someone. But the reason these two are finally facing charges is because this became a story and pressure was brought to bear on the local DA’s office.
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bigbottom
Footballguy
My thought. And I edited out the "thugs" in previous post from stealthycat.
I agree completely any time a human murders another human, it's tragic. Regardless of race.
This tragedy is receiving more attention because race unfortunately has a significant role in our country's history and present.
This often comes up as the "double standard" issue.
Is there a double standard sometimes? Yes. There is. And there are some reasons and history for it. If you're waiting for life to be completely fair, you're in for a long wait.
Can a black person say things to another black person that I can't? Yes. It's life. That's a pretty small "price" for me to pay given the past and present. Get over yourself.
My friend posted this written by a pastor friend of his in Georgia. This seems relevant and feels right to me. It's maybe a little more directed at Christians, but I think it's pretty applicable to all.
---------
I agree completely any time a human murders another human, it's tragic. Regardless of race.
This tragedy is receiving more attention because race unfortunately has a significant role in our country's history and present.
This often comes up as the "double standard" issue.
Is there a double standard sometimes? Yes. There is. And there are some reasons and history for it. If you're waiting for life to be completely fair, you're in for a long wait.
Can a black person say things to another black person that I can't? Yes. It's life. That's a pretty small "price" for me to pay given the past and present. Get over yourself.
My friend posted this written by a pastor friend of his in Georgia. This seems relevant and feels right to me. It's maybe a little more directed at Christians, but I think it's pretty applicable to all.
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sho nuff
Footballguy
Good post Joe...and yes...there are double standards...but there are also double standards the other way. This is paraphrased because I can't find it...but saw this posted by someone...
The basics were..
I am not afraid to run during the day, at night because I am a white male.
I am not afraid to run in my neighborhood, or the neighborhood next to mine, because I am a white male.
I am not afraid to run at a public park or trail because I am a white male.
I am not afraid to have my son run with me or let him go for a run because I am a white male...
It went on much longer than that. Hell, we let our son get up and walk over to a hill near an elementary school this morning to watch the sun rise...and didn't worry. I don't think I have the same reaction if I were black. Would I be worried someone was watching him or me...judging me as I went for a run or search through the wooded area behind my house for down trees to gather wood for a fire pit.
The basics were..
I am not afraid to run during the day, at night because I am a white male.
I am not afraid to run in my neighborhood, or the neighborhood next to mine, because I am a white male.
I am not afraid to run at a public park or trail because I am a white male.
I am not afraid to have my son run with me or let him go for a run because I am a white male...
It went on much longer than that. Hell, we let our son get up and walk over to a hill near an elementary school this morning to watch the sun rise...and didn't worry. I don't think I have the same reaction if I were black. Would I be worried someone was watching him or me...judging me as I went for a run or search through the wooded area behind my house for down trees to gather wood for a fire pit.
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