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***Official 2020 Election General***


hagmania

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35 minutes ago, jwb said:

It's still kind of nuts that this stuff can be influenced by political leanings. Clearly that's what happened in Michigan. Millions of votes, and it all can depend on the political leanings of two guys. 

Unless these things get fixed, this ensures we will never have another "clean" election. 

To be fair, it seems like it can't. Though I think at least one member tried. The guy who abstained did so because he acknowledged after consulting  politicians from previous administrations that he really can not vote no on this. They are only acknowledging that votes were brought to them and were certified by their respective counties. The count level does seem like where there could be some chaos though. 

Edited by Ilov80s
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1 hour ago, Doug B said:

Does he have ambitions for higher office or something? I know he visited the White House last week ... what's Shinkle's story?

I don't think he was part of that DC trip. That was the top GOP members of the Michigan House and Senate. 

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3 minutes ago, whoknew said:

NEW: GSA has informed president-elect Joe Biden the administration is ready to begin the formal transition process, according to a letter from administrator Emily Murphy sent Monday afternoon and obtained by CNN.

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About damn time.

She didn't show up to the House Committee for Oversight and Reform today.    Some speculated she was about to get served with a subpoena.   

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6 minutes ago, whoknew said:

NEW: GSA has informed president-elect Joe Biden the administration is ready to begin the formal transition process, according to a letter from administrator Emily Murphy sent Monday afternoon and obtained by CNN.

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About damn time.

https://twitter.com/davidfrum/status/1331012621458354187?s=21

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2 minutes ago, whoknew said:

NEW: GSA has informed president-elect Joe Biden the administration is ready to begin the formal transition process, according to a letter from administrator Emily Murphy sent Monday afternoon and obtained by CNN.

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About damn time.

Probably just a coincidence that Congress insisted Murphy appear tomorrow to give a briefing on status, even if by phone - rejecting her request to delay to next week. 

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22 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

I don't think he was part of that DC trip. That was the top GOP members of the Michigan House and Senate. 

Gotcha. One of the White House visitors has a similar name, I think. Gotta look it up.

EDIT: confused Shinkle for the aptly-named Mike Shirkey.

Edited by Doug B
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55 minutes ago, whoknew said:

NEW: GSA has informed president-elect Joe Biden the administration is ready to begin the formal transition process, according to a letter from administrator Emily Murphy sent Monday afternoon and obtained by CNN.

--

About damn time.

Merely a flesh wound 

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13 minutes ago, shader said:

The president refused to concede. That ambiguity led to her wanting to let the process play out, but put her in a toxic situation where she was threatened. 

As Biff wrote, she didn’t need the President to concede to ascertain who won the election. She failed to do her damn job and, as a result, made things more difficult for the incoming administration. 
 

All she had to do was her job. She failed. Almost certainly for partisan reasons. 

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Just now, whoknew said:

As Biff wrote, she didn’t need the President to concede to ascertain who won the election. She failed to do her damn job and, as a result, made things more difficult for the incoming administration. 
 

All she had to do was her job. She failed. Almost certainly for partisan reasons. 

:goodposting: 

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12 minutes ago, Biff84 said:
19 minutes ago, shader said:

The president refused to concede. That ambiguity led to her wanting to let the process play out, but put her in a toxic situation where she was threatened. 

There doesn’t need to be a concession for her to do her job.

What is the official protocol, though? I doubt it's "Wait until the President concedes," but I also doubt that it's "Wait until the first major news network calls the race."

So, at what point is the GSA supposed to start releasing funds?

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3 minutes ago, whoknew said:

As Biff wrote, she didn’t need the President to concede to ascertain who won the election. She failed to do her damn job and, as a result, made things more difficult for the incoming administration. 
 

All she had to do was her job. She failed. Almost certainly for partisan reasons. 

She is a political appointee, how can you expect her not to be partisan?  This is on Trump  

She did not deserve any threats. It is disgusting that anyone would do that. 

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2 minutes ago, Redwes25 said:

She is a political appointee, how can you expect her not to be partisan?  This is on Trump  

She did not deserve any threats. It is disgusting that anyone would do that. 

First, nobody is defending any threats against her. 

Second, she's an American. I expect her to do her damn job. Not protect herself and Trump. Not sell out her own country for her and Trump's gain.

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2 minutes ago, whoknew said:

First, nobody is defending any threats against her. 

Second, she's an American. I expect her to do her damn job. Not protect herself and Trump. Not sell out her own country for her and Trump's gain.

It appears there's no clear guidance about when this is "officially" supposed to happen. In the past the concession probably served as the automatic trigger to start this process. Absent that, what is she to base her judgment on, particularly when one campaign is muddying the waters about the outcome of the election?

For sake of comparison, how was this handled in the Bush/Gore election? How long did they wait to release the transition funds that time?

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3 minutes ago, whoknew said:

First, nobody is defending any threats against her. 

Second, she's an American. I expect her to do her damn job. Not protect herself and Trump. Not sell out her own country for her and Trump's gain.

Your not being realistic if you don’t think a political appointee is going to follow their boss who appointed them. This is Trump’s doing by being a giant baby. 

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2 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

It appears there's no clear guidance about when this is "officially" supposed to happen. In the past the concession probably served as the automatic trigger to start this process. Absent that, what is she to base her judgment on, particularly when one campaign is muddying the waters about the outcome of the election?

For sake of comparison, how was this handled in the Bush/Gore election? How long did they wait to release the transition funds that time?

In 2000, 547 votes separated the winner of the election and the loser. 

This election was not close.

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1 minute ago, whoknew said:

In 2000, 547 votes separated the winner of the election and the loser. 

This election was not close.

It was disputed, no one conceded "early." Same deal here from her perspective. What does she hang her decision on in this situation? Seems like states certifying their votes getting at /near 270 EC isn't an unreasonable guideline.

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1 minute ago, Gr00vus said:

It was disputed, no one conceded "early." Same deal here from her perspective. What does she hang her decision on in this situation? Seems like states certifying their votes getting at /near 270 EC isn't an unreasonable guideline.

Yeah it was a very difficult spot for her and I think it was fair of her to wait for States to certify.

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42 minutes ago, Joe Summer said:

What is the official protocol, though? I doubt it's "Wait until the President concedes," but I also doubt that it's "Wait until the first major news network calls the race."

So, at what point is the GSA supposed to start releasing funds?

Protocol has been to begin transition when a president-elect is named, which occurred on Nov 7. Some here seem to be confused thinking Murphy's role as a determiner of winner. It isn't. This is plainly procedural, even if dispute exists, to ensure that whoever is in office Jan 20 is fully prepared to be there. Doing her job has no bearing on who actually becomes president, which is why her delay makes no sense.

ETA: Placing such significance on her role as being one of substance is probably going to backfire. I just read the headline in my local paper exclaiming "US agency ascertains Biden as winner" which is what most people will now think - "Gosh, this official office made a huge decision it had been struggling with until all facts were in!" Without this foolishness, GSA is a meaningless procedural cog. 

Edited by BigJim®
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22 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

It was disputed, no one conceded "early." Same deal here from her perspective. What does she hang her decision on in this situation? Seems like states certifying their votes getting at /near 270 EC isn't an unreasonable guideline.

If that's the criteria then she should have waited until Pennsylvania certified. Just sayin'.

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Just now, Roy L Fewks said:

If that's the criteria then she should have waited until Pennsylvania certified. Just sayin'.

Maybe. :shrug:

Just another area where our current "traditional" process is obviously ill designed and ill suited to protect against those who would exploit it.

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26 minutes ago, Ilov80s said:

Yeah it was a very difficult spot for her and I think it was fair of her to wait for States to certify.

No she’s yet another in a long list of Trump appointees unqualified and unfit for their  job. “The best people.” 
 

They are appointed to run the country, not protect a president. 

Edited by Nick Vermeil
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26 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

Protocol has been to begin transition when a president-elect is named, which occurred on Nov 7. Some here seem to be confused thinking Murphy's role as a determiner of winner. It isn't. This is plainly procedural, even if dispute exists, to ensure that whoever is in office Jan 20 is fully prepared to be there. Doing her job has no bearing on who actually becomes president, which is why her delay makes no sense.

ETA: Portraying her role as being one of substance is probably going to backfire. I just read the headline in my local paper exclaiming "US agency ascertains Biden as winner" which is what most people will now think - gosh, she named a winner! Without this foolishness, GSA is a meaningless procedural cog. 

She can't release funds to both candidates. It's not that anyone is saying she determines who won, we're saying she needs to have a pretty high degree of clarity on who the winner was before she can do her job here.*

*I'm wrong about this assumption, as stated in my next post. I'm leaving this here as yet more evidence that I should really do more research before I make assertions.

Edited by Gr00vus
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4 minutes ago, Gr00vus said:

She can't release funds to both candidates. It's not that anyone is saying she determines who won, we're saying she needs to have a pretty high degree of clarity on who the winner was before she can do her job here.

Huh, I was not aware of that. I understood "the transition process begins as leading presidential contenders forming a transition team to start making preliminary plans for building an administration and assuming the presidency should they be elected." That's a need for an incumbent? Any event, if the election can't be "ascertained" at 306-232, that's a problem.

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1 hour ago, whoknew said:

NEW: GSA has informed president-elect Joe Biden the administration is ready to begin the formal transition process, according to a letter from administrator Emily Murphy sent Monday afternoon and obtained by CNN.

--

About damn time.

GSA! GSA! GSA!

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3 minutes ago, BigJim® said:

Huh, I was not aware of that. I understood "the transition process begins as leading presidential contenders forming a transition team to start making preliminary plans for building an administration and assuming the presidency should they be elected." That's a need for an incumbent? Any event, if the election can't be "ascertained" at 306-232, that's a problem.

You're right, I'm wrong:

Quote

In the event that the president-elect is the incumbent, federal transition funds for post-election transition activities are returned to the Treasury. The law does allow for GSA to use funds for training of new political appointees throughout a president’s term.

So, I guess we're back to she's just worried about making sure she's not releasing the funds before she was sure Biden had won.

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NYT reporter Maggie Haberman thinks Trump's tweet is 'the closest to a concession' he'll give (The Week, 11/23/2020)

Quote

 

President Trump has yet to concede the election, and New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman thinks his Monday evening tweet about what is in "the best interest of our country" is "the closest to a concession Trump is going to get."

Trump wrote that he spoke to Emily Murphy, the head of the General Services Administration, and recommended that she "do what needs to be done with regard to initial protocols," adding that he has "told my team to do the same." Murphy needed to ascertain the election in order to formally start the transition process, and after weeks of delays, she sent President-elect Joe Biden a letter on Monday telling him the transition can officially start.

Haberman tweeted that she's been told some of Trump's advisers "had been urging him" to let the transition begin before Thanksgiving, "even if he never said the word 'concede.'" Between the Trump campaign and other Republicans, more than 30 lawsuits have been filed in six swing states, in an attempt to contest the election results, NBC News reports. Despite Trump and members of his legal team claiming there has been widespread voter fraud, no court has found a single piece of evidence.

Trump's election legal team is being led by his longtime friend and personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York City. Giuliani has been "key in stoking Trump's conspiracy theories," Haberman said, but people with knowledge of the matter told her that a recent court loss in Pennsylvania made Trump realize "Giuliani was not painting an honest picture" of his chances of actually changing the election results. Giuliani, she added, took control of Trump's legal team after the campaign dropped a lawsuit in Maricopa County, Arizona, and he warned Trump that "other advisers were lying to him."

 

 

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Trump just tweeted: "What does GSA being allowed to preliminarily work with the Dems have to do with continuing to pursue our various cases on what will go down as the most corrupt election in American political history? We are moving full speed ahead. Will never concede to fake ballots & “Dominion”."

 

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8 hours ago, Joe Summer said:

Trump just tweeted: "What does GSA being allowed to preliminarily work with the Dems have to do with continuing to pursue our various cases on what will go down as the most corrupt election in American political history? We are moving full speed ahead. Will never concede to fake ballots & “Dominion”."

 

So...the usual lies...attacks on our election system continuing to try and undermine our government which causes millions to follow along with crazy conspiracies and creates more division.

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10 minutes ago, Mile High said:

Read his tweets already this morning. 

Yeah...but he has Cousin Eddie on his side.  Seriously...does he think retweeting that is good for him?  Didn't he go nuts and move to Canada anyway?

Edited by sho nuff
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14 hours ago, whoknew said:

First, nobody is defending any threats against her. 

Second, she's an American. I expect her to do her damn job. Not protect herself and Trump. Not sell out her own country for her and Trump's gain.

I would be shocked if Trump hadn't made clear to her that if she released the funds without his OK, she wouldn't have a damn job to do any more

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14 hours ago, whoknew said:

First, nobody is defending any threats against her. 

Second, she's an American. I expect her to do her damn job. Not protect herself and Trump. Not sell out her own country for her and Trump's gain.

I would be shocked if Trump hadn't made clear to her that if she released the funds without his OK, she wouldn't have a damn job to do any more

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34 minutes ago, nysfl2 said:

I would be shocked if Trump hadn't made clear to her that if she released the funds without his OK, she wouldn't have a damn job to do any more

America relies on people to do their job in that circumstance, even if it is difficult. If the pressure you describe is real, it is not supposed to be, and is undermining to peaceful transitions.

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37 minutes ago, nysfl2 said:

I would be shocked if Trump hadn't made clear to her that if she released the funds without his OK, she wouldn't have a damn job to do any more

Then she should have the fortitude and patriotism to tell him to suck it.

Edited by whoknew
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49 minutes ago, nysfl2 said:

I would be shocked if Trump hadn't made clear to her that if she released the funds without his OK, she wouldn't have a damn job to do any more

Depending on how this plays out, she’s not going to have her position much longer anyway. 

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10 minutes ago, whoknew said:

Then she should have the fortitude and patriotism to tell him to suck it.

This fortitude and patriotism to stand up and do the right thing on behalf of the American people (as opposed to self-interest and lining politicians' pockets, blind partisan loyalty and endeavoring to score points over the other party at the expense of seeking a way forward that benefits all Americans, calling out damaging, unethical, illegal, and other behavior deleterious to the people and the system, etc.) seems to be sadly lacking on the Hill for a little bit now.

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40 minutes ago, Osaurus said:

Depending on how this plays out, she’s not going to have her position much longer anyway. 

Bad play on her part.  If she had stood up to him and done her job properly, she has a much better chance of retaining, or getting her job back, once the transition takes place.  The Dems would take notice that she had the fortitude to do her duty under immense pressure.

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Pennsylvania has certified.:pickle:

Governor Tom Wolf

@GovernorTomWolf

Today @PAStateDept certified the results of the November 3 election in Pennsylvania for president and vice president of the United States. As required by federal law, I’ve signed the Certificate of Ascertainment for the slate of electors for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

Edited by Mystery Achiever
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5 minutes ago, Mystery Achiever said:

Pennsylvania has certified.:pickle:

Governor Tom Wolf

@GovernorTomWolf

Today @PAStateDept certified the results of the November 3 election in Pennsylvania for president and vice president of the United States. As required by federal law, I’ve signed the Certificate of Ascertainment for the slate of electors for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

Kewl. I believe that is 270 correct? 

Edited by 2Squirrels1Nut
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11 minutes ago, 2Squirrels1Nut said:
16 minutes ago, Mystery Achiever said:

Pennsylvania has certified.

Governor Tom Wolf @GovernorTomWolf

Today @PAStateDept certified the results of the November 3 election in Pennsylvania for president and vice president of the United States. As required by federal law, I’ve signed the Certificate of Ascertainment for the slate of electors for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

Kewl. I believe that is 270 correct? 

Might be more than that. Let's see ...

States called for Biden = 306 electoral votes

Battleground states certified = PA (20 ev), MI (16 ev), GA (16 ev)

Battleground states remaining to certify = AZ (11 ev), WI (10 ev), NV (6 ev) = 27 electoral votes outstanding

306 - 27 = 273 electoral votes for Biden

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12 hours ago, Joe Summer said:

Trump just tweeted: "What does GSA being allowed to preliminarily work with the Dems have to do with continuing to pursue our various cases on what will go down as the most corrupt election in American political history? We are moving full speed ahead. Will never concede to fake ballots & “Dominion”."

 

I thought the concept of Dominion was the evangelical's jam? 

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