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Commissioner Collusion - what say you? - Update - I’m playing the sketchy commish in the semi’s and Thomas is out (2 Viewers)

What should happen since the trade already went through?

  • Overturn the trade

    Votes: 35 16.1%
  • Fine both owners significantly but allow the trade

    Votes: 13 6.0%
  • Impeach the commissioner

    Votes: 23 10.6%
  • Let trade stand but fine and impeach

    Votes: 13 6.0%
  • Overturn trade, fine and impeach

    Votes: 26 12.0%
  • Nothing

    Votes: 107 49.3%

  • Total voters
    217
Yup--and thats exactly where the murkiness comes in.  
It’s not murky. it’s cut and dry collusion. 

There’s nothing murky about this in the slightest when you break the deal down to the most basic elements. 

Regardless of how the condition was communicated to the league of not, the condition of the trade itself is collusion.

Lying about it after the fact merely cements the fact that both teams (one of whom is commish) knew there were doing something shady. So while it makes it much worse, it’s certainly not murky. 

1. Team A wants Thomas, does not need a W.

2. Team B has Thomas, but needs a W.

3. They play each other that week. team A agreed to set a lesser lineup (without Thomas) as a condition of acquiring him. 

4. Team B didn’t want to face Thomas because he believed he would score well. Team A admitted he would not have benched Thomas if not for the agreement.

That’s how this went down. Everything about their feels or how hard they may or may not have been trying to win is window dressing on a deal where two teams colluded.

At its most basic level, Team A, the commish, opted to abandon his duty to the league as an ethical steward in order to tank a game he didn’t need to win in order to get MT from a team that did need to win. 

That’s it. Thats what happened. I’m stunned this poll is anywhere near 50-50. It is a stunning breach of ethics. 

 
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This debate is exactly why a commissioner that is involved in a possibly ethically amigious trade should never think that the best way to handle the situation is through keeping secrets. A commssioner should be preaching transparency.   Had they announced the trade and the condition to the league the moment it went down--the other owners could have made a decision on whether or not it should be allowed and go from there. 
 
in my opinion as a long-time commissioner, that’s not quite on the mark. More accurately, this example is exactly why there must be a co-commissioner to handle situations like this where the commish is directly involved in a trade.

The commish should be subject to the same rules and bound by the same assumption of ethical behavior as everyone else.

In this example, a co-commish would have been the 1st one to call out the commish on benching MT and get to the bottom of it, preferably before kickoff.

Had this happened, at the very least the league would have a sense that it was being addressed, rather than the chaos & infighting that ensued.

I’m not sure what my recourse would be if I were the co-commish here. If I were to take a WAG at it, I’d likely privately admonish the commish for making this conditional trade. He should know better, and he should recognize both the action as tanking, and the precedent that such a deal would set. 

I would likely rule that the deal stands, but without the condition since that condition is collusion. But it’s also possible that I would put the deal up to league vote, with the new information available, to see if it should be vetoed altogether. I don’t love the idea of rewarding the shady commish with MT. ETA: the more I consider it, the more i lean towards a veto. 

And I would put up for vote whether the commish who did it should remain commish. That way the league’s voice is heard and it’s not some unilateral decision. I strongly suspect this league would vote to move on to a new commish as a result.

But that’s all speculative. 

 
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It’s not murky. it’s cut and dry collusion. 

There’s nothing murky about this in the slightest when you break the deal down to the most basic elements. 

Regardless of how the condition was communicated to the league of not, the condition of the trade itself is collusion.

Lying about it after the fact merely cements the fact that both teams (one of whom is commish) knew there were doing something shady. So while it makes it much worse, it’s certainly not murky. 

1. Team A wants Thomas, does not need a W.

2. Team B has Thomas, but needs a W.

3. They play each other that week. team A agreed to set a lesser lineup (without Thomas) as a condition of acquiring him. 

4. Team B didn’t want to face Thomas because he believed he would score well. Team A admitted he would not have benched Thomas if not for the agreement.

That’s how this went down. Everything about their feels or how hard they may or may not have been trying to win is window dressing on a deal where two teams colluded.

At its most basic level, Team A, the commish, opted to abandon his duty to the league as an ethical steward in order to tank a game he didn’t need to win in order to get MT from a team that did need to win. 

That’s it. Thats what happened. I’m stunned this poll is anywhere near 50-50. It is a stunning breach of ethics. 
In my league this would have been a completely acceptable conditional trade.  You have every right to think it was unethical and shouldn't be allowed, but that doesn't make us wrong.

 
In my league this would have been a completely acceptable conditional trade.  You have every right to think it was unethical and shouldn't be allowed, but that doesn't make us wrong.
1. It is unethical

2. If your league allows it, you’re not wrong.

both of these things can be true. If you play in a system where anything goes & the ends always justify the means so cheating is ok, then yes, you aren’t wrong.

it’s the same as saying If your city allows bank robbery, there would be no bank robbers. 

But you have to apply that explicit condition to your reasoning for you to be right about this deal. Because we know that in the league in which this deal went down, they do not share your “anything goes” philosophy. We know this because the OP told us that league’s reaction to the deal. 

So when it comes to this deal, you are without question 100% wrong. You have to frame it as “in a system where ethics don’t matter, this isn’t unethical. That’s simply not relevant to this topic. My saying you’re wrong isn’t projecting ethics onto you. Ethics are ethics. 

 
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How is it a straw man? You may want to revisit your logic class, friend because your understanding of logical fallacy appears to be off. 

Hardly a straw man, this is actually what’s known as “an analogy”. 

Fact: It’s the same as the trade that went down. 100%, exactly the same. There is literally none difference. 

1. How this conditional deal went down: 

Team A gets Thomas on the condition that he can’t play him in a certain matchup against Team B, who traded him Thomas. 

2. How the trade would go down in my hypothetical analogy: 

Team A gets Thomas on the condition that he can’t play him in a certain matchup against Team B, who traded him Thomas. 

Reasonable minds can disagree, but only if they’re not disingenuously dismissing a point as a nonexistent logical fallacy. You would be quite unreasonable to have done that. 
Dude, your getting kind of nasty over this with me and with others and there is no need to.

You claim as "Fact" something that is not a fact, it is your opinion.

"Fact: It’s the same as the trade that went down. 100%, exactly the same. There is literally none difference."

The literal, factual difference is the transaction occurred in the same week (as ive mentioned repeatedly) as opposed to your fictitious scenarios that don't. 

We disagree on the trade contingency and we disagree on there being no difference between a trade that is proposed and completed in the same week and a trade that isn't completed in the same week. Its all good man, nobody died here, no need to get nasty.

 
Dude, your getting kind of nasty over this with me and with others and there is no need to.

You claim as "Fact" something that is not a fact, it is your opinion.

"Fact: It’s the same as the trade that went down. 100%, exactly the same. There is literally none difference."

The literal, factual difference is the transaction occurred in the same week (as ive mentioned repeatedly) as opposed to your fictitious scenarios that don't. 

We disagree on the trade contingency and we disagree on there being no difference between a trade that is proposed and completed in the same week and a trade that isn't completed in the same week. Its all good man, nobody died here, no need to get nasty.
I’m not getting nasty in the slightest. I corrected your bogus assertion of a straw man.

I’m in no way shape or form being “nasty”. Thats 100% projection on your part. 

preposterous. 

and the “fact” is accurate. What week the condition applies to is irrelevant. that’s the point. It is the same trade. Calling it a “straw man” is incorrect by any definition of the term. 

Sorry you don’t like facts. That doesn’t mean I’m nasty.  :shrug:  

 
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1. It is unethical

2. If your league allows it, you’re not wrong.

both of these things can be true. If you play in a system where anything goes & the ends always justify the means so cheating is ok, then yes, you aren’t wrong.

it’s the same as saying If your city allows bank robbery, there would be no bank robbers. 

But you have to apply that explicit condition to your reasoning for you to be right about this deal. Because we know that in the league in which this deal went down, they do not share your “anything goes” philosophy. We know this because the OP told us that league’s reaction to the deal. 

So when it comes to this deal, you are without question 100% wrong. You have to frame it as “in a system where ethics don’t matter, this isn’t unethical. That’s simply not relevant to this topic. My saying you’re wrong isn’t projecting ethics onto you. Ethics are ethics. 
I disagree and I don't appreciate you questioning my ethics.  We have rules and not everything goes. In this case a team is taking a short term loss for a long term gain and that is an acceptable decision to everyone in the league. 

In your example the bank is suffering harm. In my league no one would feel harmed as it is a conditional trade. I liken it more to legal weed, you may disagree with it's morality but if the people of Oregon say it OK then that is their right regardless of what Iowans think.

 
I disagree and I don't appreciate you questioning my ethics.  We have rules and not everything goes. In this case a team is taking a short term loss for a long term gain and that is an acceptable decision to everyone in the league. 

In your example the bank is suffering harm. In my league no one would feel harmed as it is a conditional trade. I liken it more to legal weed, you may disagree with it's morality but if the people of Oregon say it OK then that is their right regardless of what Iowans think.
I’m not questioning your ethics. You said in your league ethics don’t matter in trades.  You then said it again here:

Not specifically but we have always been very  laissez-faire on trades rules.
In the league in question, the league was not ok with it. You’re saying something opposite of what’s true. 

And as for your league, literally every team fighting with team B  for a playoff spot is potentially injured by this side condition. Ignoring that ignores the crux of why this is an unethical deal.

so again, if bank robbery isn’t a crime then there are no bank robbers.

And if ethics aren’t a problem in trades then this deal where a team agrees to throw a game to get a player is perfectly ok. 

I never once questioned your ethics. Your league seems to have a tenuous grasp of them when it applies to trades though based on your description that this would be perfectly ok for a team to tank a week as a condition of a deal.

 
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I'm curious which of these would be considered ok and which would be considered unacceptable:

Team A trades player A to Team B for player B - also Team B agrees:

  • that he will never use player A against Team A in all future games they ever play.
  • that he will not use player A against Team A for the rest of the season, including playoffs.
  • that he will not use player A against Team A in their next scheduled regular season game a few weeks off.
  • that he will not use player A against Team A in their regular season game that is the same week as the trade.
 
I’m not getting nasty in the slightest. I corrected your bogus assertion of a straw man.

I’m in no way shape or form being “nasty”. Thats 100% projection on your part. 

preposterous. 
You tried to correct (failed) as I pointed out in my previous post which u ignored and instead focus on my assertion u r getting nasty which you claim u r not in the "slightest". What I mean by nasty is when you call my opinion bogus and you say things like 

You may want to revisit your logic class, friend because your understanding of logical fallacy appears to be off

Just chill dude its ok to disagree.

 
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You tried to correct (failed) as I pointed out in my previous post which u ignored and instead focus on my assertion u r getting nasty which you claim u r not in the "slightest". What I mean by nasty is when you call my opinion bogus and you say things like 

You may want to revisit your logic class, friend because your understanding of logical fallacy appears to be off

Just chill dude its ok to disagree.
I said that because you asserted a logical fallacy that didn’t exist. 

sorry you feel attacked by that, but you were wrong. There was no straw man fallacy so I corrected you.

I am completely chill. I’m not emotional about this in the slightest. Your being wrong about a fallacy doesn’t upset me at all, but it did warrant correction.

maybe instead of getting defensive you could just admit you were wrong. They’re the same situation. A condition was applied to a trade that impacted a lineup. That I asked about a different week doesn’t make it a straw man, it merely shows why the condition is a problem. 

 
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I'm curious which of these would be considered ok and which would be considered unacceptable:

Team A trades player A to Team B for player B - also Team B agrees:

  • that he will never use player A against Team A in all future games they ever play.
  • that he will not use player A against Team A for the rest of the season, including playoffs.
  • that he will not use player A against Team A in their next scheduled regular season game a few weeks off.
  • that he will not use player A against Team A in their regular season game that is the same week as the trade.
It’s a trick question: every scenario is unacceptable because they are all the same.

@NE_REVIVAL will be along shortly to incorrectly assert that this is a “straw man” as he did when I brought up the exact same point.

I’m moving on to other topics. This is getting silly. 

 
1. It is unethical

2. If your league allows it, you’re not wrong.

both of these things can be true. If you play in a system where anything goes & the ends always justify the means so cheating is ok, then yes, you aren’t wrong.

it’s the same as saying If your city allows bank robbery, there would be no bank robbers. 

But you have to apply that explicit condition to your reasoning for you to be right about this deal. Because we know that in the league in which this deal went down, they do not share your “anything goes” philosophy. We know this because the OP told us that league’s reaction to the deal. 

So when it comes to this deal, you are without question 100% wrong. You have to frame it as “in a system where ethics don’t matter, this isn’t unethical. That’s simply not relevant to this topic. My saying you’re wrong isn’t projecting ethics onto you. Ethics are ethics. 
No, this is your opinion. There is nothing inherent good or evil about conditional trades. It is simply defining the rules for which ethics in compliance of those rules are observed. It was never about the condition. It was about lying. Very different 

is it unethical to have the WW be first come first serve? You could argue it however you want one way or another 

 
Except no one agreed to help another team win. If the team is good enough to have already secured a play-off spot without MT, he must be good enough to win one game without him.
Of course benching Thomas and starting Mattison helps the other team win.  We agreed on this pages ago.

You're main point is that Thomas is a better fantasy option than Mattison... something nobody has contested.

 
It’s a trick question: every scenario is unacceptable because they are all the same.

@NE_REVIVAL will be along shortly to incorrectly assert that this is a “straw man” as he did when I brought up the exact same point.

I’m moving on to other topics. This is getting silly. 
I mentioned earlier that it was a slippery slope to allow the trade described in this thread, the listed choices are meant to illustrate this.

And if there is someone that says all 4 listed trade scenarios are ok, it can get far more slipperier than just these 4 choices.

 
I’m not questioning your ethics. You said in your league ethics don’t matter in trades.  You then said it again here:

In the league in question, the league was not ok with it. You’re saying something opposite of what’s true. 

And as for your league, literally every team fighting with team B  for a playoff spot is potentially injured by this side condition. Ignoring that ignores the crux of why this is an unethical deal.

so again, if bank robbery isn’t a crime then there are no bank robbers.

And if ethics aren’t a problem in trades then this deal where a team agrees to throw a game to get a player is perfectly ok. 

I never once questioned your ethics. Your league seems to have a tenuous grasp of them when it applies to trades though based on your description that this would be perfectly ok for a team to tank a week as a condition of a deal.
You keep brining up acts that are illegal and have well documented laws against them as some analogy. Stealing is illegal plain and simple and is not an appropriate analogy to this trade. Things can be legal and unethical. You may not like the conditions of the trade based on your ethical constraints but there was no rule against the trade within the league regardless of the leagues opinion on the conditions. 

Now, why it is not collusion is based upon the league rules as we understand them:

1. There is no league vote on trades. Since there is no formal league inclusion or review on trades other than between the two parties involved there is simply no formal mechanism or requirement to report any conditions of the trade beyond what is observable. 

2. Both teams acted in good faith to improve their own team based on their perceived needs. That MT was benched was a short term sacrifice in order to gain a player of perceived value for later. If the traded players used to acquire MT were perceived to be of lower value overall then the benching was certainly a way creating a ad hoc parity with the trade.

3. Players are entitled to make the necessary decisions to win a league championship. These decisions can be both short term and long term. While it is always best to win every week the NEED to win every week is situation dependent. If I'm in 4th place and assured of a playoff spot but mathematically eliminated from bye week contention then the weekly result simply is not my driving motivation. I'm trying to align my roster for playoff success and I am not concerned about the playoff implications for 6th, 7th or 8th place teams. I am not managing for them. My benching MT may have eliminated one team and my playing MT may have eliminated one team. Frankly, that isn't my problem as they had 10 weeks to control their own destiny. I should not be punished or looked down upon for the fortune of putting myself in a position to control my destiny within reason. 

 
I mentioned earlier that it was a slippery slope to allow the trade described in this thread, the listed choices are meant to illustrate this.

And if there is someone that says all 4 listed trade scenarios are ok, it can get far more slipperier than just these 4 choices.
The slope is slippery from undefined rules 

 
I mentioned earlier that it was a slippery slope to allow the trade described in this thread, the listed choices are meant to illustrate this.

And if there is someone that says all 4 listed trade scenarios are ok, it can get far more slipperier than just these 4 choices.
Slippery slope is a logical fallacy but if it suits your narrative then carry on. 

 
No, this is your opinion. There is nothing inherent good or evil about conditional trades. It is simply defining the rules for which ethics in compliance of those rules are observed. It was never about the condition. It was about lying. Very different 
This will be my last post in this topic, and I am only responding to this because it is an important point. 

Ethical behavior is at the crux of this issue. 

Opinions about what constitutes ethical behavior can be debated, but the ethics here aren’t a matter of opinion, nor are they debatable. 

you seem confused about this concept. I’m doing my best to explain, but it seems like some in here define ethical behavior as “whatever it takes to get the job done”, which is not a generally accepted interpretation of behaving ethically. 

In general, society frowns upon cheating.

In the specifics of FF leagues, this is a no-brainer. Cheating isn’t allowed. No league has explicit rules to cover every possible scenario that blanket term “cheating” covers, but in this case we know that the two teams involved here knew that it was cheating.

They knew it, and that is why they lied about it. They agreed to fix a game. It’s at the very heart of this trade, and why it was unethical by any generally accepted standard. Because cheating is widely accepted as being unethical in the context of fantasy leagues. 

just because some people have the opinion that it isn’t unethical doesn’t make it ethical. Ethics are ethics - they don’t care about our opinions. 

So contrary to your assertion, this is 100% about the condition of the deal, and it is only peripherally about the lying, which showed consciousness of guilt because both parties involved in the deal knew they were behaving unethically. 

is it unethical to have the WW be first come first serve? You could argue it however you want one way or another 
This is set by however the league is set up, and bears no relevance on this topic. League set-up and waivers type would fall under the category of “fair”, not “ethics”. Is it fair to have waivers run one way or another? All up to the league - ethics do not enter the equation. 

 
I am just surprised this thread went to 17 pages. Most "Is this collusion" threads die a hard death after a few pages.

This one really drew out the debate, which was surprising to me. 

No way I am going back to read the 6 or 7 pages I missed -- I imagine we're not any closer to agreement outside the point of this (and any) league needs some spelled out rules to make it clear whether this kind of provision is fair game or not.

 
Perhaps it will become clearer to you if you attempt to answer the four trade condition situations I posted earlier.
I don't have to answer them because they are not connected in any way shape or form to the trade or to potential outcomes later on. 

But if I'm to entertain your 4 scenarios, based on the current league rules those trade conditions would not go against the league rules at all. 

If the league feels conditions on trades are either against the rules or need to be disclosed then the league needs to write rules to address the potential for abuse beforehand. They now have a real life scenario to base the rules on and not your four hypotheticals. Laws and rules are not predictive in nature, they are reactive. They always have been and always will be. 

My opinion is the trade is fine and should stand. It is also my opinion that if in this leagues feels that the trade does not pass the smell test then I'm all for them addressing it anyway they see fit. It is their league to run based on their standards, not mine and not yours. 

I just don't think that a player who wants to acquire MT WANTS to lose and I don't think that a player who feels the need to trade MT yet doesn't want to play against him that week also is not a manager who wants to lose. It is just very obvious that they are on opposite ends of the playoff race and did what they felt was in their teams best interest to be competitive. 

 
I'm curious which of these would be considered ok and which would be considered unacceptable:

Team A trades player A to Team B for player B - also Team B agrees:

  • that he will never use player A against Team A in all future games they ever play.
  • that he will not use player A against Team A for the rest of the season, including playoffs.
  • that he will not use player A against Team A in their next scheduled regular season game a few weeks off.
  • that he will not use player A against Team A in their regular season game that is the same week as the trade.
One of these things are not like the others (the thing that actually occurred). One transaction begins AND is completed in the same calendar week unlike all the other hypotheticals, straw men, scenarios, analogies etc which do not complete in the same week. 

If something happens on a monday and the same thing happens on a friday are they exactly the same? Or is it factually accurate to say they are the same except they occurred in a different time frame? So it is a fact that they are different (time frame) and the only thing open to debate is whether it matters and to some like me it does and to others it doesn't; its all good. The claim that something that begins and completes in the same week is 100% the same thing as something that begins in one week and ends in another is neither logical or factually accurate. It might be "similar" but it is not the same.  As previously stated, if the contingency goes beyond the week of when the transaction was completed I would have a problem with it. Reasonable minds can disagree.    

 
This will be my last post in this topic, and I am only responding to this because it is an important point. 

Ethical behavior is at the crux of this issue. 

Opinions about what constitutes ethical behavior can be debated, but the ethics here aren’t a matter of opinion, nor are they debatable. 

you seem confused about this concept. I’m doing my best to explain, but it seems like some in here define ethical behavior as “whatever it takes to get the job done”, which is not a generally accepted interpretation of behaving ethically. 

In general, society frowns upon cheating.

In the specifics of FF leagues, this is a no-brainer. Cheating isn’t allowed. No league has explicit rules to cover every possible scenario that blanket term “cheating” covers, but in this case we know that the two teams involved here knew that it was cheating.

They knew it, and that is why they lied about it. They agreed to fix a game. It’s at the very heart of this trade, and why it was unethical by any generally accepted standard. Because cheating is widely accepted as being unethical in the context of fantasy leagues. 

just because some people have the opinion that it isn’t unethical doesn’t make it ethical. Ethics are ethics - they don’t care about our opinions. 

So contrary to your assertion, this is 100% about the condition of the deal, and it is only peripherally about the lying, which showed consciousness of guilt because both parties involved in the deal knew they were behaving unethically. 

This is set by however the league is set up, and bears no relevance on this topic. League set-up and waivers type would fall under the category of “fair”, not “ethics”. Is it fair to have waivers run one way or another? All up to the league - ethics do not enter the equation. 
They didn't disclose the details of the trade because it was not a league requirement to do so. That is not a lie. The league went into the season with the agreement that they were not concerned about the details of trades by not making disclosure or league votes a requirement. League votes are as much a option upon league setup as WW priorities. Without votes the league simply has no say or recourse to intervene on a trade. Even upon asking the managers could have simply declined the to answer. Basically, the league had no right to even ask the question and the league was not entitled to any answer whether it be misleading or factual. "Ask me no questions, I tell you no lies". 

But, regardless of my stance, if the league doesn't like they'll handle it moving forward. If they don't care about it then that is fine too. It is their league and how they decide to handle it isn't to be judged as right or wrong by us. 

 
This will be my last post in this topic, and I am only responding to this because it is an important point. 

Ethical behavior is at the crux of this issue. 

Opinions about what constitutes ethical behavior can be debated, but the ethics here aren’t a matter of opinion, nor are they debatable. 

you seem confused about this concept. I’m doing my best to explain, but it seems like some in here define ethical behavior as “whatever it takes to get the job done”, which is not a generally accepted interpretation of behaving ethically. 

In general, society frowns upon cheating.

In the specifics of FF leagues, this is a no-brainer. Cheating isn’t allowed. No league has explicit rules to cover every possible scenario that blanket term “cheating” covers, but in this case we know that the two teams involved here knew that it was cheating.

They knew it, and that is why they lied about it. They agreed to fix a game. It’s at the very heart of this trade, and why it was unethical by any generally accepted standard. Because cheating is widely accepted as being unethical in the context of fantasy leagues. 

just because some people have the opinion that it isn’t unethical doesn’t make it ethical. Ethics are ethics - they don’t care about our opinions. 

So contrary to your assertion, this is 100% about the condition of the deal, and it is only peripherally about the lying, which showed consciousness of guilt because both parties involved in the deal knew they were behaving unethically. 

This is set by however the league is set up, and bears no relevance on this topic. League set-up and waivers type would fall under the category of “fair”, not “ethics”. Is it fair to have waivers run one way or another? All up to the league - ethics do not enter the equation. 
The bolded above is what I have an issue with - not necessarily with @Hot Sauce Guy but in general throughout this thread.  I admittedly didn't read every word of the 17000 posts in here, but I don't think it was ever admitted by Team A that he was willingly handing a win to Team B as part of the trade.  The trade was "I give you MT, but you can't start him this week against me".  The trade was NOT "I'll give you MT and you sit him and give me an easy win this week".  Somehow throughout this thread the argument devolved into Team A throwing a match or tanking because he flexed a different player than who he normally would have.  That's not game fixing.  

 
In my league this would have been a completely acceptable conditional trade.  You have every right to think it was unethical and shouldn't be allowed, but that doesn't make us wrong.
It's crazy how people are seeing this a so black and white when it's super grey (which is evidenced by the fact the poll is nearly 50/50).

It's also funny how self righteous some people can be. 

 
I think that one thing that is also getting overlooked here is that allowing a condition like this in leagues inherently randomly gives some teams trade advantages that other teams don't have.   Most fantasy leagues have a schedule that is randomly generated by the platform the league is played on.  You also have the randomness of certain teams having certain players on bye on certain weeks--and you have the randomness of some players getting injured at random points in the season.  If a team happens to have an opponent who might be short a player from a position because of a bye week or an injury--and the team playing them has an abdundance--that team can effectively maximize their trade equity by offering a player for more than value by throwing in the element of agreeing not to start a player.  Other potential trade partners would not have this trading chip---which is a big deal.   A team owner having the ability to offer a dynamic into a trade that other owners don't have the luxury of does not contribute to an even playing field. 

 
I don't think it was ever admitted by Team A that he was willingly handing a win to Team B as part of the trade.  The trade was "I give you MT, but you can't start him this week against me".  The trade was NOT "I'll give you MT and you sit him and give me an easy win this week".  Somehow throughout this thread the argument devolved into Team A throwing a match or tanking because he flexed a different player than who he normally would have.  That's not game fixing.  
Breaking my promise to address this:

It didn’t need to be explicitly stated or acknowledged by either of the teams for this to be the same thing. 

Since you didn’t read through, I’ll summarize what we know: 

Team A (commish) did not need to win the week. 

Team B did need to win the week. 

Team A stated they would have started MT were it not for the condition. 

Both team A & team B believed that MT would outscore Mattison that week with a healthy active Cook. 

It did no harm to team A to lose the game.

it did harm to the league, and anyone other than team B competing for a playoff spot for team A to not field his best team. 

Team A & b lied about the trade condition to the league because they knew it was cheating. 

So it really is irrelevant if Team A or Team B used the term “fixing” or “tanking” or “throwing” the game that week. That was the functional effect of their agreement. 

This aspect is not at all ambiguous. We know that they did this.  And if Team A is agreeing to field a lesser lineup for the game against Team B as a condition of the deal, they colluded to throw a game.

Whether team A thought he could win without MT is irrelevant. The only relevant factor here is that both teams believed MT was the better play, and both teams agreed that team B would face an inferior lineup, which gave team B an unfair advantage to win that week as compared to the other teams competing for a playoff spot who had no such advantage that week, and who may have to face team MT later without such a condition. 

I understand that maybe possibly it could be that they were innocent babes who did this deal with the best of intentions, and in the interest of assuming the very best about people and not calling them dirty players or unethical cheaters I’ll concede that much.

but at the end of the day, the functional agreement was for a team to throw a game they didn’t need to win to get a player. It’s been established that this was the case.

We can debate motives, we can debate intentions. But we simply can’t look past the fact that whether they intended to or not, they entered an agreement that one team tanks as a condition of player acquisition. Both teams involved clearly admitted that was the functional effect.

That they lied implies to me that they knew what they were doing, but I’m drawing my own conclusion there about intent. The nuts and bolts don’t change regardless.

i’m out. This time for real. 

 
It's crazy how people are seeing this a so black and white when it's super grey (which is evidenced by the fact the poll is nearly 50/50).

It's also funny how self righteous some people can be. 
It’s also amazing how people like to sub-post about others without recognizing the irony of the self righteousness of their own statement. 

Polls are an appeal to the masses fallacy. If 100 people polled agreed that penguins wear roller skates we don’t ask NatGeo to do a special 3 episode series on rollerskating penguins. 

logic is fun. 

 
I think that one thing that is also getting overlooked here is that allowing a condition like this in leagues inherently randomly gives some teams trade advantages that other teams don't have.   Most fantasy leagues have a schedule that is randomly generated by the platform the league is played on.  You also have the randomness of certain teams having certain players on bye on certain weeks--and you have the randomness of some players getting injured at random points in the season.  If a team happens to have an opponent who might be short a player from a position because of a bye week or an injury--and the team playing them has an abdundance--that team can effectively maximize their trade equity by offering a player for more than value by throwing in the element of agreeing not to start a player.  Other potential trade partners would not have this trading chip---which is a big deal.   A team owner having the ability to offer a dynamic into a trade that other owners don't have the luxury of does not contribute to an even playing field. 
Team that have less roster talent and depth will have a harder time trading than those who developed their depth? Sounds like a dynasty league

i ultimately agree with your opinion but again it is my preference for how the league should operate, certain not a good/evil issue

 
Not cut and dried - on its face it seems shady; but I can understand where someone would put a condition on a trade like that all other things being equal.  I suppose NOTHING should be done now - but in the future amend the rules to explicitly not allow this type of deal in the future???

 
It’s also amazing how people like to sub-post about others without recognizing the irony of the self righteousness of their own statement. 

Polls are an appeal to the masses fallacy. If 100 people polled agreed that penguins wear roller skates we don’t ask NatGeo to do a special 3 episode series on rollerskating penguins. 

logic is fun. 
Wow

 
Team that have less roster talent and depth will have a harder time trading than those who developed their depth? Sounds like a dynasty league

i ultimately agree with your opinion but again it is my preference for how the league should operate, certain not a good/evil issue
I've never said it's good or evil-so I do want to make sure that I clear that up.  Being that the OP's league rules did not mention this scenario--and being that there is legitimate debate that there is validity to it and validity against it---the right thing to do would have been to be transparent about the trade and the attached condition the moment the trade went down--so that the league can decide how they want to handle it.  That's why I'm of the belief that full transparency and full documentation of every attribute of a trade needs to be disclosed to the league at the time of the trade. This also makes it so that the condition is documented and can be enforced if it is broken (the commish could have broken the condition and started Thomas--and the league would have been able to do nothing about it because it was kept a secret from them). 

My point about the random additional trade equity that a condition like this opens the door to is just another reason why I feel like a condition like this is something that needs to be completely understood and agreed to by all of hte members of a league. Assuming it's an okay condition unless specified otherwise does not make sense to me.   I am on the belief that if a rule like this is to be allowed--it needs to be completely transparent and understood by all owners--and I do think that blindisiding owners mid season by taking part in a deal like this-- and trying to keep it a secret is sketchy and ethically ambiguous at best.  

 
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One of these things are not like the others (the thing that actually occurred). One transaction begins AND is completed in the same calendar week unlike all the other hypotheticals, straw men, scenarios, analogies etc which do not complete in the same week. 

If something happens on a monday and the same thing happens on a friday are they exactly the same? Or is it factually accurate to say they are the same except they occurred in a different time frame? So it is a fact that they are different (time frame) and the only thing open to debate is whether it matters and to some like me it does and to others it doesn't; its all good. The claim that something that begins and completes in the same week is 100% the same thing as something that begins in one week and ends in another is neither logical or factually accurate. It might be "similar" but it is not the same.  As previously stated, if the contingency goes beyond the week of when the transaction was completed I would have a problem with it. Reasonable minds can disagree.    
Why is "same calendar week" the critical unit of measure here?  Why not second, or minute, or hour, or day, or month, or year?  What's so special about a "calendar week"? 

Seems totally arbitrary, and self-serving of a rather poorly thought out argument.

I presume you're opposed to any trade involving a draft pick.  Those aren't completed for months, or even years in some cases.

And inasmuch as a new calendar week begins on a Sunday, this deal doesn't even meet your totally arbitrary standard.

 
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Breaking my promise to address this:

It didn’t need to be explicitly stated or acknowledged by either of the teams for this to be the same thing. 

Since you didn’t read through, I’ll summarize what we know: 

Team A (commish) did not need to win the week. 

Team B did need to win the week. 

Team A stated they would have started MT were it not for the condition. 

Both team A & team B believed that MT would outscore Mattison that week with a healthy active Cook. 

It did no harm to team A to lose the game.

it did harm to the league, and anyone other than team B competing for a playoff spot for team A to not field his best team. 

Team A & b lied about the trade condition to the league because they knew it was cheating. 

So it really is irrelevant if Team A or Team B used the term “fixing” or “tanking” or “throwing” the game that week. That was the functional effect of their agreement. 

This aspect is not at all ambiguous. We know that they did this.  And if Team A is agreeing to field a lesser lineup for the game against Team B as a condition of the deal, they colluded to throw a game.

Whether team A thought he could win without MT is irrelevant. The only relevant factor here is that both teams believed MT was the better play, and both teams agreed that team B would face an inferior lineup, which gave team B an unfair advantage to win that week as compared to the other teams competing for a playoff spot who had no such advantage that week, and who may have to face team MT later without such a condition. 

I understand that maybe possibly it could be that they were innocent babes who did this deal with the best of intentions, and in the interest of assuming the very best about people and not calling them dirty players or unethical cheaters I’ll concede that much.

but at the end of the day, the functional agreement was for a team to throw a game they didn’t need to win to get a player. It’s been established that this was the case.

We can debate motives, we can debate intentions. But we simply can’t look past the fact that whether they intended to or not, they entered an agreement that one team tanks as a condition of player acquisition. Both teams involved clearly admitted that was the functional effect.

That they lied implies to me that they knew what they were doing, but I’m drawing my own conclusion there about intent. The nuts and bolts don’t change regardless.

i’m out. This time for real. 
Team A did not agree to field a lesser lineup. They agreed to sit MT. Perhaps he is a Cook owner and didn't want to drop his handcuff to pick up someone on the WW. And perhaps he had no other rosterable alternative due to bye week or injury that he also did not want to throw back into the WW.

 
Team A did not agree to field a lesser lineup. They agreed to sit MT. Perhaps he is a Cook owner and didn't want to drop his handcuff to pick up someone on the WW. And perhaps he had no other rosterable alternative due to bye week or injury that he also did not want to throw back into the WW.
What are your thoughts on this dynamic? (Link below). I posted this earlier and the thread is moving so fast that I think a lot of valid points are being over looked.  Allowing a condition like this inherently randomly gives some teams more trade equity than others.  Do you not believe that this is something that every owner of a league should agree to because of this?

https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/topic/790330-commissioner-collusion-what-say-you/?do=findComment&comment=23101250

 
I don't have to answer them because they are not connected in any way shape or form to the trade or to potential outcomes later on. 

But if I'm to entertain your 4 scenarios, based on the current league rules those trade conditions would not go against the league rules at all. 

If the league feels conditions on trades are either against the rules or need to be disclosed then the league needs to write rules to address the potential for abuse beforehand. They now have a real life scenario to base the rules on and not your four hypotheticals. Laws and rules are not predictive in nature, they are reactive. They always have been and always will be. 

My opinion is the trade is fine and should stand. It is also my opinion that if in this leagues feels that the trade does not pass the smell test then I'm all for them addressing it anyway they see fit. It is their league to run based on their standards, not mine and not yours. 

I just don't think that a player who wants to acquire MT WANTS to lose and I don't think that a player who feels the need to trade MT yet doesn't want to play against him that week also is not a manager who wants to lose. It is just very obvious that they are on opposite ends of the playoff race and did what they felt was in their teams best interest to be competitive. 
I believe we are saying the same thing.

Which is, that a lack of a specific rule allowed this controversy to occur, and the way to address it is to create a rule.

Earlier my point was that as soon as you start allowing exceptions, it becomes nearly impossible to cover all situations and prevent future controversies.

In this case, the easiest solution is to state "Trades may only involve player(s) for player(s); no other consideration(s) can be added to facilitate the trade".

But if a league wants to allow exceptions and include them in their rules... more power to them.

 
I believe we are saying the same thing.

Which is, that a lack of a specific rule allowed this controversy to occur, and the way to address it is to create a rule.

Earlier my point was that as soon as you start allowing exceptions, it becomes nearly impossible to cover all situations and prevent future controversies.

In this case, the easiest solution is to state "Trades may only involve player(s) for player(s); no other consideration(s) can be added to facilitate the trade".

But if a league wants to allow exceptions and include them in their rules... more power to them.
I’ll agree to that as a solution. I’m not against fixing a loophole. 

 
Gimme a break!  The 2 sentences contradict each other and you know it.
What prevented the player from grabbing a player off the wire based on the understood trade conditions?  
 

To do so would not have broken the agreement of the trade. If Pittman was available he could have picked him up, started him, benched MT and honored the trade. 
 

The condition was very specific, you can’t start MT this week. That is it. Nothing more. 

 
Team A did not agree to field a lesser lineup. They agreed to sit MT. Perhaps he is a Cook owner and didn't want to drop his handcuff to pick up someone on the WW. And perhaps he had no other rosterable alternative due to bye week or injury that he also did not want to throw back into the WW.
Team A did agree to field a lesser lineup.  That fact is undisputed.  Team A admitted he wanted to play MT because he thought he was the best option to start but could not only due to the stipulation of the trade.  Team A owner believed that MT was his best play for that week but could not play him only because of the secret  trade agreement.  This is fact as presented by  @Judge Smails.

 
. Ethics are ethics. 
Theres a gigantic problem with this statement.

Just because something is unethical in one instance does not mean it is unethical in another.

Is lying unethical?  Is bluffing in poker unethical then?  Is talking about Santa with your kids unethical?  

In one league this trade is unethical, while in some others it is not.  

 

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