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New cyber attack on pipeline...how vulnerable is our infrastructure


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13 minutes ago, rockaction said:

Yeah, our cyber warfare needs massive improvement. Won't be easy. Very few people inclined to hack systems seem to want to work for the government.

Title needs an update, too.

Updated 

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The average price of a barrel of Brent crude in January of 17 when Trump took office was $55.70.  The average price of a barrel of Brent crude in January or 21 when Trump left office was $55.88.  Betw

63 yo tinfoil hat guy blows up a RV.    Shonuff - look a teen text group talked about white supremacy!      lol

Listen.  Dont make fun of me unless you've been in a fist fight.  

 

1 hour ago, JAA said:

Rando's sure.  The physical attack vector is reasonable to solve.  But once you allow remote connectivity into stations, once you perpetuate routable 61850, the sky is the limit 

:goodposting:

The structure of the guts of the internet needs to change.

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Posted (edited)

Cyberattacks are a major threat and you need to show strength here. The perception is currently weakness. Putin needs a phone call right now letting him know to handle this in his country or face severe repercussions. If Biden  doesn’t handle ASAP this will be a humungous Big Red X on his handling of protecting national interests and foreign policy.

A message needs to be sent that you don’t #### around or this will be the norm.

Edited by fantasycurse42
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13 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Cyberattacks are a major threat and you need to show strength here. The perception is currently weakness. Putin needs a phone call right now letting him know to handle this in his country or face severe repercussions. If Biden  doesn’t handle ASAP this will be a humungous Big Red X on his handling of protecting national interests and foreign policy.

A message needs to be sent that you don’t #### around or this will be the norm.

It's been the norm for the better part of 15 years now. :shrug: 

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Posted (edited)

Even after this...and our own hacking of the Keystone Pipeline....Biden's Energy Secretary says this about oil pipelines.

...and while the software is fixed, we are utilizing 10,000 trucks to get product to market.

Just a few months ago, the US was self-sufficient and an exporter of energy.
In just four months, by being attacked from the inside and outside of our borders, we see the gas lines of the '70's.
The only difference is that the music was better to listen to while you were waiting in your car.

Our pipelines work but we secure them with totally outdated software. 
Gore invented the internet...why can't he secure it? 
And yes, President Trump should have done this too. (we will hear plenty of that when the finger pointing starts)

Do you think it would be any different with wind or solar energy distribution?

Our foreign policy could work if we simply spoke softly and carried a big stick and make foreign entities think twice before kicking sand our (or Israel's) way. We had that for four years.

Edited by Opie
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15 hours ago, fantasycurse42 said:

Cyberattacks are a major threat and you need to show strength here. The perception is currently weakness. Putin needs a phone call right now letting him know to handle this in his country or face severe repercussions. If Biden  doesn’t handle ASAP this will be a humungous Big Red X on his handling of protecting national interests and foreign policy.

A message needs to be sent that you don’t #### around or this will be the norm.

Biden is a weak leader.   He is being tested all over the world and he looks weaker and weaker.    Inviting more challenges.

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18 minutes ago, quick-hands said:

Biden is a weak leader.   He is being tested all over the world and he looks weaker and weaker.    Inviting more challenges.

Could be worse....could be a situation where several of our defense agencies were compromised by the Russian government :shrug: We probably don't want to talk about that though do we?

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3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Could be worse....could be a situation where several of our defense agencies were compromised by the Russian government :shrug: We probably don't want to talk about that though do we?

Now do China

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Ramblin Wreck said:

Now do China

I don't even know what this means in context.  China's been playing us like a fiddle for a while now

Edited by The Commish
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I guess I should be happy that people are on board with getting this addressed now, but it's hard for me to get passed the selectiveness of the "outrage" and knowing that being on board is only temporary for a great many here.

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Silver lining - maybe some in our population will finally see how important these pipelines are to our way of life and stop obstructing and trying to shut them down.

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4 minutes ago, Sand said:

Silver lining - maybe some in our population will finally see how important these pipelines are to our way of life and stop obstructing and trying to shut them down.

Should I take this to mean you think pipelines like this are like the Keystone pipeline in terms of type and/or circumstance?

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Should I take this to mean you think pipelines like this are like the Keystone pipeline in terms of type and/or circumstance?

Keystone transports crude rather than refined fluids, so in that sense they are different.  However, in criticality and relative safety of transport they are very comparable.

Edited by Sand
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1 minute ago, Sand said:

Keystone transports crude rather than refined fluids, so in that sense they are different.  However, in criticality and relative safety of transport they are very comparable.

Not sure I'm connecting the dots here.  We are operating just fine as a country with the current status of Keystone.  And this particular issue has nothing to do with safety of transport.  It has to do with lack of attention to cyber security.  If you want to argue that we should be beefing up our cyber security on all our various pipelines, then I'd agree.  The rest is a rather large stretch at comparison IMO.

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42 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Could be worse....could be a situation where several of our defense agencies were compromised by the Russian government :shrug: We probably don't want to talk about that though do we?

 Gaslight much.   China, China is the major problem.   Putin,  wouldnt have let his cyber attack us.   He was afraid of Trump.

Iran didnt let hamas off thw leash under Trump.  And Xi still has Bidens kid on payroll.

But you wanna talk about Trump.

Obama and Clinton dropped their pants for the russians....but trump.    Sheesh.

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19 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Not sure I'm connecting the dots here.  We are operating just fine as a country with the current status of Keystone.  And this particular issue has nothing to do with safety of transport.  It has to do with lack of attention to cyber security.  If you want to argue that we should be beefing up our cyber security on all our various pipelines, then I'd agree.  The rest is a rather large stretch at comparison IMO.

Fact is there are a ton of folks in this country who object to pipelines without understanding how critical they are.  That was the point.

Now, as far as cybersecurity, you're right in that we need to lock down these items.  I worry about dams, waste treatment plants, power plants (nuclear on the top of that list), electrical grids, traffic control centers, flight control centers, etc. etc.  There are a lot of ways to cause chaos in this society. 

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43 minutes ago, The Commish said:

I don't even know what this means in context.  China's been playing us like a fiddle for a while now

China was the one who stole the database from OPM, my records included.  This remains the most damaging breach in US history.

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15 minutes ago, quick-hands said:

Obama and Clinton dropped their pants for the russians....but trump.    Sheesh.

This is pretty funny.  Is the insinuation here that Obama and Clinton were kinder/nicer to Putin than Trump?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, JAA said:

This is pretty funny.  Is the insinuation here that Obama and Clinton were kinder/nicer to Putin than Trump?

Btw i assume this is a joke.   You dont believe obama was tuff on russia do you?    I mean before trump was elected.    Unless you think telling vlad to "cut it out" is tuff.

Edited by quick-hands
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24 minutes ago, quick-hands said:

 Gaslight much.   China, China is the major problem.   Putin,  wouldnt have let his cyber attack us.   He was afraid of Trump.

Iran didnt let hamas off thw leash under Trump.  And Xi still has Bidens kid on payroll.

But you wanna talk about Trump.

Obama and Clinton dropped their pants for the russians....but trump.    Sheesh.

Weird....I didn't even mention Trump's name.  My comment is a direct comment about how some of you seem to care only in particular incidents.  Reality is Solarwinds was an incredibly clever attack on this country and many of our defense groups and it came from Russia.  If you want to ignore all the evidence and experts saying they believe it was government sanctioned, I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise.  Keep doing you.  

You should probably go back and look at my comments around Obama's inability to get a grasp on cyber security as well.  But fair warning, you'll realize how foolish you look with the babble at the end of your comments if you do.  Clinton was when I was 18 years old and I couldn't give two ####s about politics then.  If he dropped his pants, ok?  Great, he's just as bad.

What other misguided talking points do you want to throw out there?

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28 minutes ago, Sand said:

Fact is there are a ton of folks in this country who object to pipelines without understanding how critical they are.  That was the point.

Now, as far as cybersecurity, you're right in that we need to lock down these items.  I worry about dams, waste treatment plants, power plants (nuclear on the top of that list), electrical grids, traffic control centers, flight control centers, etc. etc.  There are a lot of ways to cause chaos in this society. 

Sorry...would have never gotten that from your post.  Seemed like you were comparing them.  Are there really people saying our pipelines aren't necessary?

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3 minutes ago, The Commish said:

Weird....I didn't even mention Trump's name.  My comment is a direct comment about how some of you seem to care only in particular incidents.  Reality is Solarwinds was an incredibly clever attack on this country and many of our defense groups and it came from Russia.  If you want to ignore all the evidence and experts saying they believe it was government sanctioned, I'm not going to try and convince you otherwise.  Keep doing you.  

You should probably go back and look at my comments around Obama's inability to get a grasp on cyber security as well.  But fair warning, you'll realize how foolish you look with the babble at the end of your comments if you do.  Clinton was when I was 18 years old and I couldn't give two ####s about politics then.  If he dropped his pants, ok?  Great, he's just as bad.

What other misguided talking points do you want to throw out there?

Well i wouldnt want to look foolish now would I.    I better not do that.

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33 minutes ago, Sand said:

China was the one who stole the database from OPM, my records included.  This remains the most damaging breach in US history.

As I said, they've been playing us like a fiddle for a while.  I'll disagree with the severity of the breach though.  When we find out in the next 5 years (if we're lucky it will be that quick) what actually was obtained in Solarwinds, I suspect that it will easily be the biggest error in our cyber infrastructure.  That they were in those areas so easily and so widely already puts it over the top for me and that's if they didn't even get a single piece of information.  Just that they were able to so easily get where they did is incredibly disturbing.  

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17 minutes ago, quick-hands said:
24 minutes ago, JAA said:

This is pretty funny.  Is the insinuation here that Obama and Clinton were kinder/nicer to Putin than Trump?

Btw i assume this is a joke.   You dont believe obama was tuff on russia do you?    I mean before trump was elected.    Unless you think telling vlad to "cut it out" is tuff.

Edited 14 minutes ago by quick-hands

You really believe Trump was harder on Putin than Obama and Clinton?

Look - I got no problem saying Trump was much harder on China than Obama and Clinton combined.  But to say Trump was hard on Russia?  Cmon man

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Posted (edited)

My link:  https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/05/ransomware-crooks-post-cops-psych-evaluations-after-talks-with-dc-police-stall/

Its going to continue to get worse.

For the utility industry you have entities like NERC and FERC.  For standard companies you have basics like ISO and SSAE/SOC.  Just like safety regulations, the govt is going to have to step in to make some of this stuff mandatory and auditable, just like financials.  There is too much at risk and no incentive for companies to give a crap until its too late.  Anyone remember Equifax?  I mean, geez.  Our attention spans are that of a knat.

Edited by JAA
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Posted (edited)

It seems that Quick-Hands is a little too quick with the space bar.

Edited by Jayrod
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22 minutes ago, JAA said:

You really believe Trump was harder on Putin than Obama and Clinton?

Look - I got no problem saying Trump was much harder on China than Obama and Clinton combined.  But to say Trump was hard on Russia?  Cmon man

Obama gave putin crimea.   He gave the ukrainians blankets.   Trump gave ukraine weapons.

Obama gave putin uranium1.

Trump opened up oil production and lowered energy prices.   Nothing hurts russia more than low energy prices.

In fact biden should threaten putin with continuing the keystone unless darkside is handed over.

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28 minutes ago, The Commish said:

As I said, they've been playing us like a fiddle for a while.  I'll disagree with the severity of the breach though.  When we find out in the next 5 years (if we're lucky it will be that quick) what actually was obtained in Solarwinds, I suspect that it will easily be the biggest error in our cyber infrastructure.  That they were in those areas so easily and so widely already puts it over the top for me and that's if they didn't even get a single piece of information.  Just that they were able to so easily get where they did is incredibly disturbing.  

We'll find out, maybe.  Solarwinds was a pretty ingenious scheme - plant a programmer to write in a back door.  OPM exposed all our govt. workers doing sensitive work.  Both are awful, no doubt.

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1 hour ago, Sand said:

Silver lining - maybe some in our population will finally see how important these pipelines are to our way of life and stop obstructing and trying to shut them down.

Or Green energy :backsawayslowly:

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6 minutes ago, quick-hands said:

Listen.  Dont make fun of me unless you've been in a fist fight.

 

My link

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59 minutes ago, Sand said:

We'll find out, maybe.  Solarwinds was a pretty ingenious scheme - plant a programmer to write in a back door.  OPM exposed all our govt. workers doing sensitive work.  Both are awful, no doubt.

Not sure what you mean here.  Solarwinds is the perfect example of weaknesses in supply chain.  OPM is an example of inept government officials with no clue about cyber security.  The OPM attack was significantly more social and gained via methods a 7th grader learns about in computer class.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, belljr said:
2 hours ago, Sand said:

Silver lining - maybe some in our population will finally see how important these pipelines are to our way of life and stop obstructing and trying to shut them down.

Or Green energy :backsawayslowly:

Our population has the attention span of a knat.  No one is realizing anything.  This is why we have the federal regulations.  So much greed, immoral, un-ethical activity.  We are unable to critically think as a populace.  Even worse, science is under-attack.

Edited by JAA
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14 minutes ago, JAA said:

Our population has the attention span of a knat.  No one is realizing anything.  This is why we have the federal regulations.  So much greed, immoral, un-ethical activity.  We are unable to critically think as a populace.  Even worse, science is under-attack.

If you think the usa is bad.   Try a socialist utopia like california.  

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Just now, quick-hands said:
14 minutes ago, JAA said:

Our population has the attention span of a knat.  No one is realizing anything.  This is why we have the federal regulations.  So much greed, immoral, un-ethical activity.  We are unable to critically think as a populace.  Even worse, science is under-attack.

If you think the usa is bad.   Try a socialist utopia like california.  

I'm going to laugh at your post choosing to believe it was made sarcastically.

:thumbup:

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1 hour ago, quick-hands said:

Obama gave putin crimea.   He gave the ukrainians blankets.   Trump gave ukraine weapons.

Obama gave putin uranium1.

Trump opened up oil production and lowered energy prices.   Nothing hurts russia more than low energy prices.

In fact biden should threaten putin with continuing the keystone unless darkside is handed over.

Uranium One. Oh here we go

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2 hours ago, quick-hands said:

Trump opened up oil production and lowered energy prices.   

The average price of a barrel of Brent crude in January of 17 when Trump took office was $55.70.  The average price of a barrel of Brent crude in January or 21 when Trump left office was $55.88.  Between the average price was $58, and that was with the benefit of the Covid crash.

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44 minutes ago, parrot said:

The average price of a barrel of Brent crude in January of 17 when Trump took office was $55.70.  The average price of a barrel of Brent crude in January or 21 when Trump left office was $55.88.  Between the average price was $58, and that was with the benefit of the Covid crash.

Can you give me the USA Market share 2016 and 2020

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Opie said:

Even after this...and our own hacking of the Keystone Pipeline....Biden's Energy Secretary says this about oil pipelines.

...and while the software is fixed, we are utilizing 10,000 trucks to get product to market.

Just a few months ago, the US was self-sufficient and an exporter of energy.
In just four months, by being attacked from the inside and outside of our borders, we see the gas lines of the '70's.
The only difference is that the music was better to listen to while you were waiting in your car.

Our pipelines work but we secure them with totally outdated software. 
Gore invented the internet...why can't he secure it? 
And yes, President Trump should have done this too. (we will hear plenty of that when the finger pointing starts)

Do you think it would be any different with wind or solar energy distribution?

Our foreign policy could work if we simply spoke softly and carried a big stick and make foreign entities think twice before kicking sand our (or Israel's) way. We had that for four years.

This is what happens when weakness is sensed.  Keep poking and see what happens.   Bidens been challenged and hopefully he or whoever is in charge is up to the task.

Edited by Summer Wheat
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3 hours ago, JAA said:

Our population has the attention span of a knat.  No one is realizing anything.  This is why we have the federal regulations.  So much greed, immoral, un-ethical activity.  We are unable to critically think as a populace.  Even worse, science is under-attack.

That’s gnat how you spell that.

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45 minutes ago, Snorkelson said:
4 hours ago, JAA said:

Our population has the attention span of a knat.  No one is realizing anything.  This is why we have the federal regulations.  So much greed, immoral, un-ethical activity.  We are unable to critically think as a populace.  Even worse, science is under-attack.

That’s gnat how you spell that

SPELLING IS UNDER ATTACK!!

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10 hours ago, Opie said:

Even after this...and our own hacking of the Keystone Pipeline....Biden's Energy Secretary says this about oil pipelines.

...and while the software is fixed, we are utilizing 10,000 trucks to get product to market.

Just a few months ago, the US was self-sufficient and an exporter of energy.
In just four months, by being attacked from the inside and outside of our borders, we see the gas lines of the '70's.
The only difference is that the music was better to listen to while you were waiting in your car.

Our pipelines work but we secure them with totally outdated software. 
Gore invented the internet...why can't he secure it? 
And yes, President Trump should have done this too. (we will hear plenty of that when the finger pointing starts)

Do you think it would be any different with wind or solar energy distribution?

Our foreign policy could work if we simply spoke softly and carried a big stick and make foreign entities think twice before kicking sand our (or Israel's) way. We had that for four years.

Not a good start for Biden.  Starting to get nervous about the economy.

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