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OG Post-Punk Countdown: 1977-1984 #1 - Joy Division - Transmission (1979) (Spotify playlist link in first post) (1 Viewer)

#8 - Public Image Ltd - Poptones (1979)

Metal Box was such a huge leap forward from PiL's debut.  Originally released in the UK in 1978 as three 12" 45 rpms in a tight-fitting 16 mm film tin, the vinyl would get nicked up just taking it out - it's like the band wanted to make things as difficult for the listener as possible even before the music started.  The album was re-released in a traditional format the following year as "Second Edition", albeit with a different track listing and the bass turned down a notch.  @fatguyinalittlecoat will laugh, but I'm always on the lookout for an original metal box yet so far haven't managed to come across one in person.

For my money, "Poptones" is the standout track, even if one of my dogs seems to hate it.  Every time I play it, he runs up to the right speaker and howls.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQtO6R4qkg0

 
scorchy said:
Had to post this too.  I was only 7 so wouldn't remember this anyway, but apparently PiL's performance of "Poptones/Careering" on American Bandstand caused quite the stir.  **** Clark didn't seem to be a particularly big fan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZLhqTzjpUM
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Excellent  :lol:

How have I never seen that before!? Thank you for changing that.

Reminds me a bit of the beastie boys playing some mtv show or another...upside down mics, and almost equally not giving a crap.

 
scorchy said:
Flipping through channels and stopped on "Grosse Pointe Blank." No way Siouxsie or Tones on Tail were getting played at my 10-year high school reunion.  Plenty of Def Leppard though.
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I went to a small school, so there is no big dance in the gym for reunions. We have dinners at houses (classmates now, classmates' parents in the early years) and spend the rest of the time in bars. But if we did the dance in the gym thing, there wouldn't be Siouxie, but there would be a lot of Cure and New Order and that kind of thing; that's what was played at the dances when we were in school.  

ETA: And absolutely no hair metal. We all hated it. 

 
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My HS was a mixed bag in terms of music...Marin County, CA in the early-mid 80s- lots of deadheads including some of their and other SF music people's kids. Lots of metal kids. Lots of alt/new wave kids, punk, early rap...wide range. The year ahead of me got The Untouchables to play prom... I used to see them play anyways, so was psyched to see them. My year got a much ####tier, local version called The Undertow. Ska by a bunch of suburban white kids. Still fun.

College in nyc in the late 80s...I missed out on all the amazing hip-hop germinating at wetlands, but saw their coeval jam bands too much...Blues Traveller (classmate was their manager), spin doctors...spacing on others (too skinny Js?) Along with a random assortment of stuff. Great being in NYC for college, heading out for a live show and being able to see just about anybody from Dizzie Gillespie to Laurie Anderson to Yo La Tengo on a given night.

 
scorchy said:
#8 - Public Image Ltd - Poptones (1979)

Metal Box was such a huge leap forward from PiL's debut.  Originally released in the UK in 1978 as three 12" 45 rpms in a tight-fitting 16 mm film tin, the vinyl would get nicked up just taking it out - it's like the band wanted to make things as difficult for the listener as possible even before the music started.  The album was re-released in a traditional format the following year as "Second Edition", albeit with a different track listing and the bass turned down a notch.  @fatguyinalittlecoat will laugh, but I'm always on the lookout for an original metal box yet so far haven't managed to come across one in person.

For my money, "Poptones" is the standout track, even if one of my dogs seems to hate it.  Every time I play it, he runs up to the right speaker and howls.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQtO6R4qkg0
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I saw the metal box edition when it came out but couldn't afford it. Much like the special leather album jacket edition of Motörhead's No Remorse.

 
Love the digression into high school dances.  Reminded me of something else I've always wondered.  When the DJ played Billy Idol's "Mony Mony" (which he or she always did at my HS), did all the kids yell "Get laid, get ####ed" during the lyrical breaks?  I had no idea it was a national thing until I brought it upa college gf from Atlanta and they did the same thing at her school (with slightly different words).  Same thing with my wife, who grew up in Orlando.  

I've gone down the internet wormhole on this several times and couldn't find a satisfactory explanation as to how this spread the country (and possibly the world) pre-internet.

 
scorchy said:
Love the digression into high school dances.  Reminded me of something else I've always wondered.  When the DJ played Billy Idol's "Mony Mony" (which he or she always did at my HS), did all the kids yell "Get laid, get ####ed" during the lyrical breaks?  I had no idea it was a national thing until I brought it upa college gf from Atlanta and they did the same thing at her school (with slightly different words).  Same thing with my wife, who grew up in Orlando.  

I've gone down the internet wormhole on this several times and couldn't find a satisfactory explanation as to how this spread the country (and possibly the world) pre-internet.
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We absolutely yelled that at a neighbor school, not at ours -- at first. (We went to the dances because our towns were small and eventually overlapped with respect to the dating pool. While we were overlapping, it became a staple at our school, too.)

It takes one person to start it, and teenagers, with their proclivities towards all things sexual, obscene, and in poor taste, saw awfully fit to yell it without much encouragement.

 
My first high school job was DJing at the local roller rink.  Skateland flipped the script on my HS dances, which despite the school being 50/50 black/white, were straight up classic rock and pop affairs.  If this weren't an old white dude board, I could do a killer countdown of funk, R&B, early hip-hop, electro, and Latin freestyle.  Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam ftw.

 
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Didn't attend a single school dance in High School. We would go to under 21 clubs a lot instead. I used to hang out with Juniors and Seniors when I was a Freshman/Sophomore and was exposed to lots of awesome music. Husker Du's Candy Apple Grey and Peter Murphy's Love Hysteria come to mind. Yes, I was clearly too cool for school as it seems. 

 
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Osaurus said:
Didn't attend a single school dance in High School. We would go to under 21 clubs a lot instead. I used to hang out with Juniors and Seniors when I was a Freshman/Sophomore and was exposed to lots of awesome music. Husker Du's Candel Apple Grey and Peter Murphy's Love Hysteria come to mind. Yes, I was clearly too cool for school as it seems. 
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We had one under-21 club (The Nite Lite) about 30 miles away in Ocean City, MD.  It was only open during the summer and occasionally would have nights where they would play what we called "progressive" music - New Order, The Cure, The Smiths, but definitely no Husker Du.  I went a few times, but if you can imagine how skeevy and lame an under-21 club in a resort town would  be, well, it was several times worse.

 
scorchy said:
We had one under-21 club (The Nite Lite) about 30 miles away in Ocean City, MD.  It was only open during the summer and occasionally would have nights where they would play what we called "progressive" music - New Order, The Cure, The Smiths, but definitely no Husker Du.  I went a few times, but if you can imagine how skeevy and lame an under-21 club in a resort town would  be, well, it was several times worse.
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I went to school in the Milwaukee suburbs so regional music was always in heavy rotation

 
scorchy said:
Love the digression into high school dances.  Reminded me of something else I've always wondered.  When the DJ played Billy Idol's "Mony Mony" (which he or she always did at my HS), did all the kids yell "Get laid, get ####ed" during the lyrical breaks?  I had no idea it was a national thing until I brought it upa college gf from Atlanta and they did the same thing at her school (with slightly different words).  Same thing with my wife, who grew up in Orlando.  

I've gone down the internet wormhole on this several times and couldn't find a satisfactory explanation as to how this spread the country (and possibly the world) pre-internet.
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At my school in the mid-80s, yes. When and why that started, I have no idea. It was before Billy Idol's version came out. 

 
scorchy said:
My first high school job was DJing at the local roller rink.  Skateland flipped the script on my HS dances, which despite the school being 50/50 black/white, were straight up classic rock and pop affairs.  If this weren't an old white dude board, I could do a killer countdown of funk, R&B, early hip-hop, electro, and Latin freestyle.  Lisa Lisa and Cult Jam ftw.
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You'd be surprised at what some of us are picking in the Genrepalooza drafts. Of course, that is just a handful of the total population on this board. 

 
scorchy said:
#6 - Bauhaus - Dark Entries (1980)

Bauhaus' second single was released several months before their debut album "In the Flat Field."  "Dark Entries" was a lot faster and a lot less gothy than the band's first and most famous release ("Bela Lugosi's Dead" obvs), which I had managed to sneak into this thread via the goth mini-countdown.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmogiSvu3lI
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I saw one of their reunion shows a long time ago in Chicago. To date, I have seen Love and Rockets, Peter Murphy, Bauhaus, and Poptone live. All were amazing shows.

 
I bought a David J lp just from the record cover and thinking it was by some outfit with the snazzy name David 7. Haven't listened to it in 30 years- tempted to spotify that ####...had a couple good tracks on it iirc.

 
El Floppo said:
I bought a David J lp just from the record cover and thinking it was by some outfit with the snazzy name David 7. Haven't listened to it in 30 years- tempted to spotify that ####...had a couple good tracks on it iirc.
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You inspired me.  I had been going through some bins in the basement a few weeks ago and found old tapes and a walkman.  Dug them out this morning just to listen to the solo record by the black guy in General Public.  Honestly not bad, or maybe it's just nostalgia.

 
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scorchy said:
You inspired me.  I had been going through some bins in the basement a few weeks ago and found old tapes and a walkman.  Dug them out this morning just to listen to the solo record by the black guy in General Public.  Honestly not bad, or maybe it's just nostalgia.
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Eh... More than one black guy.

But I assume Ranking Roger?

The local dive bar at my HS town is a place called the 2am club...best known from the cover of huey lewis' sports album. I'm there one random weeknight post college (c1992) with my pals and these two guys are hogging the pool table. My gb says "get a load of ranking roger over there", making fun of the wannabe who sucked at pool. Turned out it was him. And Dave Wakeling. Both ended up being really nice and hung chatting and shooting pool with us for a couple hours. They were working on a new album at the Plant in my hometown Sausalito.

And then we beat the crap out of them and took all their money and told them general public sucked.

 
El Floppo said:
Eh... More than one black guy.

But I assume Ranking Roger?

The local dive bar at my HS town is a place called the 2am club...best known from the cover of huey lewis' sports album. I'm there one random weeknight post college (c1992) with my pals and these two guys are hogging the pool table. My gb says "get a load of ranking roger over there", making fun of the wannabe who sucked at pool. Turned out it was him. And Dave Wakeling. Both ended up being really nice and hung chatting and shooting pool with us for a couple hours. They were working on a new album at the Plant in my hometown Sausalito.

And then we beat the crap out of them and took all their money and told them general public sucked.
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California and NYC seem to lend themselves to much better encounters than Gainesville, FL and Salisbury, MD.  The fact that your buddy used "ranking roger" to describe a random dude means that he was a lot more famous than I realized, but that's already obvious given that I thought that General Public was just two people.

OTOH, once at a show in Philly, I said to the dreadlocked drunk guy behind me "Can you stop knocking into me you Muzz Skillings-looking mother####er?"  Shocker - it wasn't actually Muzz Skillings, but like most Philadelphians, he appreciated the creative and good-natured insult.

 
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scorchy said:
#5 - Talking Heads - Psycho Killer (1977)

Qu'est-ce que c'est?  As far as I know, the only song in the countdown to be included in The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame's 500 Songs that Shaped Rock and Roll.  The linked video is from the band's 1978 appearance on Old Grey Whistle Test.

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmmvtX0IUHU
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The Documentary Now episode of Stop Making Sense (aka Final Transmission) is hilarious! Highly recommend. Love this band and the spinoffs. Glad I got to see David Byrne's American Utopia a few years ago. It was one of the best shows I've ever been to.

 
Osaurus said:
The Documentary Now episode of Stop Making Sense (aka Final Transmission) is hilarious! Highly recommend. Love this band and the spinoffs. Glad I got to see David Byrne's American Utopia a few years ago. It was one of the best shows I've ever been to.
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That's supposed to be coming back this fall...I completely missed even hearing about it originally- will see about getting tickets...thanks!

 
#4 - Wire - Three Girl Rhumba (1977)

On any given day, I might give 5 or 6 different answers if someone asks what is my favorite post-punk band or song.  But my favorite album doesn't change.  "Pink Flag" is the one that always calls on me to listen to the whole thing, not while I'm doing other stuff, but to sit down and really pay close attention and feel it.  I mean, it's only 36 minutes long, so what else am I doing that's more important?  It's somehow both textured and minimalist, unstructured but purposeful, tense but not paranoid, and insanely simple yet somehow complex.  Impossible for me to pick a favorite from the album, so I'll just go with the one that made Justine Frischmann famous:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr9Cn3yFnnQ

 
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I actually do have a favorite song "from" the album, but it doesn't qualify because it's a re-imagining of the title track from Wire's 2000 EP "The Third Day."  It kind of makes me want to stab people, so I tend to only listen to it when no knives are around.

Pink Flag [r2]

 
scorchy said:
#4 - Wire - Three Girl Rumba (1977)

On any given day, I might give 5 or 6 different answers if someone asks what is my favorite post-punk band or song.  But my favorite album doesn't change.  "Pink Flag" is the one that always calls on me to listen to the whole thing, not while I'm doing other stuff, but to sit down and really pay close attention and feel it.  I mean, it's only 36 minutes long, so what else am I doing that's more important?  It's somehow both textured and minimalist, unstructured but purposeful, tense but not paranoid, and insanely simple yet somehow complex.  Impossible for me to pick a favorite from the album, so I'll just go with the one that made Justine Frischmann famous:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr9Cn3yFnnQ
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Not sure how much was the band and how much was their producer, but Wire created a monster guitar sound.

 
scorchy said:
#4 - Wire - Three Girl Rhumba (1977)

On any given day, I might give 5 or 6 different answers if someone asks what is my favorite post-punk band or song.  But my favorite album doesn't change.  "Pink Flag" is the one that always calls on me to listen to the whole thing, not while I'm doing other stuff, but to sit down and really pay close attention and feel it.  I mean, it's only 36 minutes long, so what else am I doing that's more important?  It's somehow both textured and minimalist, unstructured but purposeful, tense but not paranoid, and insanely simple yet somehow complex.  Impossible for me to pick a favorite from the album, so I'll just go with the one that made Justine Frischmann famous:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr9Cn3yFnnQ
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There it is!!!!   :headbang:

 
scorchy said:
#4 - Wire - Three Girl Rhumba (1977)

On any given day, I might give 5 or 6 different answers if someone asks what is my favorite post-punk band or song.  But my favorite album doesn't change.  "Pink Flag" is the one that always calls on me to listen to the whole thing, not while I'm doing other stuff, but to sit down and really pay close attention and feel it.  I mean, it's only 36 minutes long, so what else am I doing that's more important?  It's somehow both textured and minimalist, unstructured but purposeful, tense but not paranoid, and insanely simple yet somehow complex.  Impossible for me to pick a favorite from the album, so I'll just go with the one that made Justine Frischmann famous:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qr9Cn3yFnnQ
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I started a thread here back in like 2014 or so opining that Pink Flag was the finest punk or post-punk album, ever. Got a good discussion going. It was my top album for the 1970s in tim's 70s draft, and an album that I can listen to over and over and admire its minimalist art-rock tendencies that still manifest in wonderfully constructed songs, sometimes sing-a-longs even, at least for the avant garde in '76-'77.

Here's my review of it for anyone who might care. https://forums.footballguys.com/topic/743528-1970s-music-draft-link-to-google-spreadsheet-in-first-post/page/6/#elControls_19150669_menu

 
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scorchy said:
That's beautiful, man.
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Thanks, scorchy. I was really intoxicated when I wrote it (I no longer partake) and I just got a little confused myself reading it. But there was a point in there, I'm sure! I think the point I was trying to make was that it is a living document of the avant-garde and where the art world was meeting rock and roll back in '77 in England. And that it was a masterwork for this sensibility. It really is quite the album. And one of the best LP covers in rock history, as per their wont. Love that "Three Girl Rhumba" is here. Gives me an excuse to talk about it, maybe even throw it on the stereo.

 
rockaction said:
I think the point I was trying to make was that it is a living document of the avant-garde and where the art world was meeting rock and roll back in '77 in England. And that it was a masterwork for this sensibility.
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I have a long history of interpreting thoughts of the drunken intelligentsia (although I am not a member myself), so I understood your point completely.  😀

 
scorchy said:
I have a long history of interpreting thoughts of the drunken intelligentsia (although I am not a member myself), so I understood your point completely.  😀
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:D Heh. That's me, smiling and laughing. Thanks for understanding, man.

BTW, your r2 song from '99 is awesome in its own right, but it also segued into My Bloody Valentine in my You Tube algorithm, and I'd never heard 2013's m b v. What a great sounding album...I have no idea why or how I missed this the first time around.

 
Before we get to the top 3, I wanted to look back on a few bands that didn't appear in my top 75 list.  I started thinking about doing a countdown way back in the summer:  listened to a ton of records and spotify playlists, pulled out some old mix tapes, read a lot of reviews, talked a bunch with the eccentric owner of my local record shop, etc.  Through it all,  there were several bands whose names often came up, especially in those "Top Post-Punk Albums of All Time" lists, that didn't make the cut for me:

Television - probably the most glaring omission, but Marquee Moon was recorded in late 1976 (released in Feb 1977).  Almost seems pre-punk.

The Smiths and REM - love both of them.  Never miss the local Smiths cover band when they do a show.  But it's indie, not post-punk.

The Minutemen, Husker Du - neither were straight up punk, but to me, they're more associated with hardcore.

OMD, Depeche Mode, The Wake - synthpop

Suicide, Throbbing Gristle - I know they have their fans, especially Suicide, but can't stand either one

Durutti Column - may have just completely whiffed on them.  Totally off my radar.

 
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Television, who I'd never really listened to until I joined this board, is really a sonic jam band. I don't think they're really what I think of when I think of post-punk. The hype sticker on the record declares that it is "jazz for the punk rock set," and so it is. It's great -- it's considered a classic album and deservedly so -- it's just not post-punky.

 
scorchy said:
Suicide, Throbbing Gristle - I know they have their fans, especially Suicide, but can't stand either one
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Both hard sells for sure. TG did have a couple side projects were somewhat more listenable, Chris & Cosey being the one I listened to most. They still don't fit this thread,  but would fit other genres.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vT6zjsMAY_o

 
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scorchy said:
OTOH, once at a show in Philly, I said to the dreadlocked drunk guy behind me "Can you stop knocking into me you Muzz Skillings-looking mother####er?"  Shocker - it wasn't actually Muzz Skillings, but like most Philadelphians, he appreciated the creative and good-natured insult.
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If I bumped into Muzz Skillings at a show in Philly, it wouldn't surprise me at all. 😆

 
A not as close buddy in college was in a Wire cover band called the ex-lion tamers. At some point Wire stopped playing their older tunes live and recruited them to tour just to play those early songs. I have no memory of how they were received....but I want to say the fans weren't into it and the band didn't finish out the tour. 

 
El Floppo said:
A not as close buddy in college was in a Wire cover band called the ex-lion tamers. At some point Wire stopped playing their older tunes live and recruited them to tour just to play those early songs. I have no memory of how they were received....but I want to say the fans weren't into it and the band didn't finish out the tour. 
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Having a cover band of theirs open was brilliant enough, but to use them to cover a previous era of their songs even better.

 
#3 - The Cure - 10:15 Saturday Night (1978)

Originally released as the b-side to the Cure's debut single "Killing an Arab", "10:15 Saturday Night" was the first track on the band's up-and-down first album (for me, "Fire in Cairo" is really the only other memorable song).  I love 10:15, but I don't know that anyone could have listened to "Three Imaginary Boys" and predicted that the Cure would end up in the RnR HoF. 

Everyone in the band looks like such little kids in this video.

ETA:  I don't know which is my favorite part - the bassline, the guitar solo, or "drip, drip, drip..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NERzLlHo-D0

 
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scorchy said:
#3 - The Cure - 10:15 Saturday Night (1978)

Originally released as the b-side to the Cure's debut single "Killing an Arab", "10:15 Saturday Night" was the first track on the Cure's up-and-down first album (for me, "Fire in Cairo" is really the only other memorable song).  I love 10:15, but I don't know that anyone could have listened to "Three Imaginary Boys" and predicted that the Cure would end up in the RnR HoF. 

Everyone in the band looks like such little kids in this video.

ETA:  I don't know which is my favorite part - the bassline, the guitar solo, or "drip, drip, drip..."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NERzLlHo-D0
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Have always loved this tune.

The SF chronicle had a terrible music critic (and a good one) who reviewed the Cure's local show one year early 80s. Wrote a paragraph being shocked about how racist Killing an Arab was and how awful it was they'd include it live. Even as a kid, that was the moment I realized not only did this guy have crap taste in music (anything post 77 was lost in him) but in spite of being paid to write stuff, he'd obviously never read stuff. Like books and whatnot. I knew if I saw his byline, I could confidently take the opposite pov.

 
El Floppo said:
Have always loved this tune.
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Same here. I'd always been aware of The Cure in high school and found a tune or two catchy, but never really appreciated them until I went to boarding school and was loaned a copy of a cassette of Staring At The Sea, the extended play one with the singles and B-sides that many thought suffered from bloat compared to the CD, but was actually glorious for it. Loved it. Loved this song probably the most. IIRC, it's the somewhere between second through fourth track on the cassette. I think it went Killing An Arab, Jumping Someone Else's Train, Boys Don't Cry, 10:15 Saturday Night. One of Jumping or this wasn't on the CD, which is by my estimation a criminal omission of either. Many a day spent listening to those first four songs, anyway. 

 
El Floppo said:
The SF chronicle had a terrible music critic (and a good one) who reviewed the Cure's local show one year early 80s. Wrote a paragraph being shocked about how racist Killing an Arab was and how awful it was they'd include it live. Even as a kid, that was the moment I realized not only did this guy have crap taste in music (anything post 77 was lost in him) but in spite of being paid to write stuff, he'd obviously never read stuff. Like books and whatnot. I knew if I saw his byline, I could confidently take the opposite pov.
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My son picked "The Stranger" as one of his summer reading books last year, and when he was done, I played "Killing an Arab" for him.  Not his style for sure, and he wasn't personally offended, but he also couldn't imagine that the song could ever be released today - no matter the inspiration.

I know the Cure have gone back and forth from not playing it, to changing the lyrics, to playing it as written, and back to changing the lyrics.  It's gotta be a tough call for them.

 
scorchy said:
My son picked "The Stranger" as one of his summer reading books last year, and when he was done, I played "Killing an Arab" for him.  Not his style for sure, and he wasn't personally offended, but he also couldn't imagine that the song could ever be released today - no matter the inspiration.

I know the Cure have gone back and forth from not playing it, to changing the lyrics, to playing it as written, and back to changing the lyrics.  It's gotta be a tough call for them.
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This is all true...delicate area for sure. But this critic had obviously no idea what the song was about or what it's origins were...so the foundation of his entire argument was off-base.

 
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