Jayrod
Footballguy
Fun fact: I passed on Rick Barry over D-Wade because he quit on his team in the playoffs. My locker room doesn't need a cancer like that.
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***** ALL-TIME NBA/ABA DRAFT ***** (Scoobus is Champion!) (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Yo Mama
- Start date
Kev4029
Footballguy
I picked Malone, so I hope not but all else being equal, I would pick somebody that wasn't an ####### over somebody that was.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I picked Malone, so I hope not but all else being equal, I would pick somebody that wasn't an ####### over somebody that was.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Part of the appeal of Zeke is that he's not nice. He looks friendly but if I need an opponent hurt, Isiah will gladly take a cheap shot on him.
Kev4029
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Good pick. Partly because he was a great player, partly because I didn’t want to have to take him.
higgins
Footballguy
3.13 -- Reggie Miller, 90's SG.
Reggie Miller is the purest and most magnificent shooter to ever step foot on a basketball court. It's not even close.
Miller spent 18 years as an Indiana Pacers player. During that span, the Pacers made the playoffs 15 times (reaching the Eastern Conference Finals in six of them) and only experienced four losing seasons (barely).
All with Miller, a jump shooter, as the team's superstar.
Not an all-around stud like Michael Jordan. Not a bruising power forward like Karl Malone. Not a dominant and versatile center like Hakeem Olajuwon.
But a jump shooter.
For 18 years, in an average of 77.2 games per season, Miller spent 34-plus minutes of each game running... and running... and running around screens, until he barely freed himself up to catch a pass every defender knew was coming and was trying to stop.
And then in one lightning quick motion, with a defender a nanosecond behind, Miller would turn his body, elevate, and slingshot the ball at the rim, just beating the outstretched arm and hand that was coming to block his attempt.
Swish.
Miller would do this continuously all game long and couldn't be stopped. One would think his legs would get tired at some point or that he would take a play or two off to catch a breather, but these moments never came.
If the defender didn't run this marathon with him, and do everything possible to keep him from getting a shot off, Miller would kill him.
And it's not like the 6'7" Miller was working his ### off to get layups. He was running defenders into the ground just to get the ball, and usually pulling up from 18 to 24 feet out.
Are you familiar with the statistic, True Shooting Percentage (TSP)? TSP is a APBRmetrics (Sabermetrics for basketball) value that measures shooting efficiency. It is essentially points scored per shooting possession.
Of all the players in basketball history with averages of at least 25 minutes per game played and eight shots per game attempted, only xxxxxx, yyyyyyy and zzzzzz rank ahead of Miller. xxxxxx and yyyyyyy were centers, and zzzzzz didn't shoot from the outside much.
Meanwhile, Miller is the all-time leader in three-pointers attempted, with 6,486.
In other words, the one player who took the most long-range shots in history is also the game's most efficient shooter. Wow.
When it came to clutch play, Miller is only rivaled by Jordan, Larry Bird ,and Jerry West. Who could forget Game One of the 1995 Eastern Conference Finals when he scored eight points in 8.9 seconds in a come-from-behind win over the Knicks in New York?
The 25 points in the Fourth Quarter against the Knicks, during which he jawed with Spike Lee and gave him the choke sign.
That insane 40-foot turnaround bank shot at the buzzer against the New Jersey Nets to send Game Five of the 2002 Playoffs into overtime.
The time he freed himself up from Jordan with 2.9 seconds left in Game Four of the 1998 Conference Finals to hit a game-winning three.
The list goes on. Few people have hit as many important shots as Miller.
The greatest shooter the game has ever seen, Miller was inducted into the NBA Hall of Fame in 2012.
^ written 2010
@scoobus
Reggie Miller is the purest and most magnificent shooter to ever step foot on a basketball court. It's not even close.
Miller spent 18 years as an Indiana Pacers player. During that span, the Pacers made the playoffs 15 times (reaching the Eastern Conference Finals in six of them) and only experienced four losing seasons (barely).
All with Miller, a jump shooter, as the team's superstar.
Not an all-around stud like Michael Jordan. Not a bruising power forward like Karl Malone. Not a dominant and versatile center like Hakeem Olajuwon.
But a jump shooter.
For 18 years, in an average of 77.2 games per season, Miller spent 34-plus minutes of each game running... and running... and running around screens, until he barely freed himself up to catch a pass every defender knew was coming and was trying to stop.
And then in one lightning quick motion, with a defender a nanosecond behind, Miller would turn his body, elevate, and slingshot the ball at the rim, just beating the outstretched arm and hand that was coming to block his attempt.
Swish.
Miller would do this continuously all game long and couldn't be stopped. One would think his legs would get tired at some point or that he would take a play or two off to catch a breather, but these moments never came.
If the defender didn't run this marathon with him, and do everything possible to keep him from getting a shot off, Miller would kill him.
And it's not like the 6'7" Miller was working his ### off to get layups. He was running defenders into the ground just to get the ball, and usually pulling up from 18 to 24 feet out.
Are you familiar with the statistic, True Shooting Percentage (TSP)? TSP is a APBRmetrics (Sabermetrics for basketball) value that measures shooting efficiency. It is essentially points scored per shooting possession.
Of all the players in basketball history with averages of at least 25 minutes per game played and eight shots per game attempted, only xxxxxx, yyyyyyy and zzzzzz rank ahead of Miller. xxxxxx and yyyyyyy were centers, and zzzzzz didn't shoot from the outside much.
Meanwhile, Miller is the all-time leader in three-pointers attempted, with 6,486.
In other words, the one player who took the most long-range shots in history is also the game's most efficient shooter. Wow.
When it came to clutch play, Miller is only rivaled by Jordan, Larry Bird ,and Jerry West. Who could forget Game One of the 1995 Eastern Conference Finals when he scored eight points in 8.9 seconds in a come-from-behind win over the Knicks in New York?
The 25 points in the Fourth Quarter against the Knicks, during which he jawed with Spike Lee and gave him the choke sign.
That insane 40-foot turnaround bank shot at the buzzer against the New Jersey Nets to send Game Five of the 2002 Playoffs into overtime.
The time he freed himself up from Jordan with 2.9 seconds left in Game Four of the 1998 Conference Finals to hit a game-winning three.
The list goes on. Few people have hit as many important shots as Miller.
The greatest shooter the game has ever seen, Miller was inducted into the NBA Hall of Fame in 2012.
^ written 2010
@scoobus
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Jayrod
Footballguy
That note at the bottom there is a key, because there is clearly a new sheriff in town.
ETA: I like the pick, though. He compliments Dr. J well, IMO, because his defender can never leave him on the 3 pt line, leaving driving lanes open for the Doc to do what he does best.
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higgins
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
scoobus
Footballguy
3.14 Jason Kidd, PG, 00s
Couple ways to go here, but we’ll go with the much stingier defense. Phenomenal passer, 2nd all-time in assists and steals, good rebounder for his position, bunch of all nbas and all defensive first and second teams. Also turned himself into a pretty great spot up 3 point shooter at the end of the decade. As good of a player on the court as he was bad of a head coach.
Couple ways to go here, but we’ll go with the much stingier defense. Phenomenal passer, 2nd all-time in assists and steals, good rebounder for his position, bunch of all nbas and all defensive first and second teams. Also turned himself into a pretty great spot up 3 point shooter at the end of the decade. As good of a player on the court as he was bad of a head coach.
trader jake
Footballguy
Is Reggie even the best shooter in the Miller family driveway? C'mon man.
Agreed. Higgins did well to add a great shooter alongside Dr. J for his squad. Nice skill set compliment.
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modogg
Footballguy
yeah i really wanted Kawhi at the turn, looking at his stats and career arc i think he may be the best pick in this 3rd round
scoobus
Footballguy
Kev4029
Footballguy
3.15 Steve Nash, PG 00s
Nash is the last multiple MVP winner available. The 00s Suns and Nash revolutionized the NBA offensively with the 7 seconds or less offense. In some ways its disappointing that he didn't come a few years later where he could have been unleashed in a bit more of a heliocentries role similar to Curry or Harden surrounded by other great shooters.
My Malone-Nash PnR should be at least as dynamic as Malone and Stockton (or Nash's former teammate for that matter).
Nash is the last multiple MVP winner available. The 00s Suns and Nash revolutionized the NBA offensively with the 7 seconds or less offense. In some ways its disappointing that he didn't come a few years later where he could have been unleashed in a bit more of a heliocentries role similar to Curry or Harden surrounded by other great shooters.
My Malone-Nash PnR should be at least as dynamic as Malone and Stockton (or Nash's former teammate for that matter).
scoobus
Footballguy
scoobus
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Need some newbies to team up with my olds. Yo Mama selects:
3.16 - Anthony Davis - PF 10s
Just an amazingly complete defender. He can protect the rim, he can switch out on guards on the wing, and he can do everything in between.
He’s also an offensive unicorn - his ball handling and footwork have always been incredible for his size. Now he’s added a reliable 3pt shot, solid passing, and deadly midrange game to the mix.
Career averages of 23.9/10.3/2.3 to go with 1.4 steals and 2.4 blocks.
1x champ
8x all-star
4x all-nba (all 1st team)
4x all-defense
3.16 - Anthony Davis - PF 10s
Just an amazingly complete defender. He can protect the rim, he can switch out on guards on the wing, and he can do everything in between.
He’s also an offensive unicorn - his ball handling and footwork have always been incredible for his size. Now he’s added a reliable 3pt shot, solid passing, and deadly midrange game to the mix.
Career averages of 23.9/10.3/2.3 to go with 1.4 steals and 2.4 blocks.
1x champ
8x all-star
4x all-nba (all 1st team)
4x all-defense
Kidd & Nash were right there with Paul for me and they ended up going in the order I had them.
EYLive
Footballguy
Jayrod
Footballguy
Ditto. I had Kidd as my next best player overall after CP3 went. Think he was the best value of this round.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Since the PGs I wanted were crudely snatched right before me, I need to change course. Also, Jayrod started Jayrodding with his “there is...another” greatest pure shooter talk, so Yo Mama selects:
4.01 - Klay Thompson - SG 10s
I need shooting and perimeter defense for my team, and he was created in a lab to do both. One of the greatest pure shooters of all time. Might not have the career accomplishments (yet) as others still to be drafted, but he’s a perfect fit on my team.
Career averages of 19.5/3.5/2.3 with a steal and half a block.
3x champ (and his injury was a key factor they didn’t get 4)
5x all-star
2x all-nba
1x all-defense
More points than dribbles (I think)
4.01 - Klay Thompson - SG 10s
I need shooting and perimeter defense for my team, and he was created in a lab to do both. One of the greatest pure shooters of all time. Might not have the career accomplishments (yet) as others still to be drafted, but he’s a perfect fit on my team.
Career averages of 19.5/3.5/2.3 with a steal and half a block.
3x champ (and his injury was a key factor they didn’t get 4)
5x all-star
2x all-nba
1x all-defense
More points than dribbles (I think)
Jayrod
Footballguy
The ultimate lightning rod in brief brilliance vs prolonged success. At his peak, he was as good as Kareem and Wilt, but it only lasted about a season and a half. In fact, he only played in the playoffs 4 times in his entire career and 2 of those he came off the bench for the C's and one he only played in 2 games. Basically he only had one great run as the man.
scoobus
Footballguy
4.03 Ray Allen, SG, 00s
Doesn’t have the accolades some others have, and I have way too many 00s guys now, but we’re building teams here! Pretty good shooter I’d say, all time 3 point leader or something. If he had got taken on the turn was going to take Klay who I thought others would see as a reach, but looks like he’s valued more in line with what I was thinking. Higgins taking Reggie Miller right before my 3rd rounder made me scared I wasn’t going to get 1 of those 3.
Doesn’t have the accolades some others have, and I have way too many 00s guys now, but we’re building teams here! Pretty good shooter I’d say, all time 3 point leader or something. If he had got taken on the turn was going to take Klay who I thought others would see as a reach, but looks like he’s valued more in line with what I was thinking. Higgins taking Reggie Miller right before my 3rd rounder made me scared I wasn’t going to get 1 of those 3.
higgins
Footballguy
This guy gets plenty of grief (some deserved?) regarding his need to be the focal point; BUT, as this team is constructed (with key offensive players shining in their preferred roles/strengths), he fits perfectly.
4.04 -- Russell Westbrook, 10's PG. <-- already 13th in assists & second in career triple doubles at age 32
@Doug B
4.04 -- Russell Westbrook, 10's PG. <-- already 13th in assists & second in career triple doubles at age 32
@Doug B
Yo Mama
Footballguy
I had Reggie, Allen, and Klay all pretty close on my personal list. Thought Klay might be a reach, but figured he’d be long gone before my next pick anyway.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I think that run in the mid 80s with the Celtics kind of cemented his legacy. Nearly crippled and in his mid 30s, he was still a major contributor to a championship team.
scoobus
Footballguy
I’m an idiot and thought he might fall all the way back to my 5th due to his lack of accolades. Was thiiiiiiiis close haha.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
he played center better than i ever seen it played, but i'm tired of fighting longevity biases.
Jayrod
Footballguy
It isn't "bias". Availability matters in life and basketball. A player isn't much good to his team on the sideline in street clothes or back home in rehab. Sure he's great, but only one year of playoffs left the Blazers feeling empty over many seasons.
Like I said as great as anybody, when available, but too many times he just wasn't.
Kev4029
Footballguy
I understand why Klay is being lumped into that group, he is their equal as a shooter and by far the best defender, but those two were the best player of playoff teams and Klay has never been better than the 3rd best. And whereas Allen and Reggie seemed to often improve their games in the playoffs, Klay had been mostly between bad and fine.
Jayrod
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Definitely Reggie and Ray have better careers, but I decided to go with a more recent player (coin flip between him and Allen). Also, Klay’s career playoff averages are all at or better than his regular season averages. Not sure how that’s between bad and fine.
Doug B
Footballguy
4.05: SF Paul George, 2010s
Many excellent attributes which I will detail in a later post.
@Mister CIA
Many excellent attributes which I will detail in a later post.
@Mister CIA
Jayrod
Footballguy
scoobus
Footballguy
Agree with this to a degree. Klay has had the luxury of playing with the greatest shooter of all time as his guard counterpart for his entire career. Would’ve been interesting to see him as the #1 option on a team during his prime and how that would’ve gone.
Mister CIA
Footballguy
I'll pick in the next 5-10 minutes. Double-checking on to see that no obvious players have been overlooked. I think I have this narrowed down to two.
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