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Kamala Harris' border crisis. Biden put her in charge. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter NorvilleBarnes
- Start date
Hope not. I'd like it to be zero.
It's not 200K like I guessed it might be, but, it still increased. They are still processing 6K a day. What I worry about is that the resources are saturated and that might mean more just walk on in that are never counted.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
so much for a transparent, active, fully engaged administration :(
Monday was the 55th consecutive day that Harris has neither visited the border region nor held a news conference regarding her role as President Biden’s appointed manager of the federal response to the crisis.
the human trafficking that has went on in this administration should make everyone sick to their stomachs :(
Monday was the 55th consecutive day that Harris has neither visited the border region nor held a news conference regarding her role as President Biden’s appointed manager of the federal response to the crisis.
the human trafficking that has went on in this administration should make everyone sick to their stomachs :(
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Of course, this should make everybody sick in general. All administration's policies have added to this, so not sure what the answer is for this.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
the answer is to focus on the core problem - people coming to the USA illegally
what is king Biden doing to stop the massive flow? because if he's not doing anything to stop it, if his administrations policies encourage it ... then literally he's enabling human traffickers isn't he?
the solution is to seal the border and stop it
Quick thought if you're interested. This is related to what we're talking about in the other thread.
Assuming you want to have a real discussion, dropping the "king" thing will help a lot.
By getting that little shot in, it almost ensures you won't get real discussion. It's your choice.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
My point is:
1. we aren't stopping that. people are desperate, and we offer hope.
2. i posted a bit ago and article stating how previous policies actually ramped up the trafficking b/c people who got kicked across the border were preyed on again by the smugglers, and the smugglers got richer b/c they charged more since they sold it as a package deal for multiple attempts needed.
Seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.
The Commish
Footballguy
We are aware that Harris' job in all this is the diplomatic side of working with Central/South American countries to see what can be done in those areas to improve life so people don't think it's a better option to flee to the US right? To my knowledge, she has not been appointed to "fix the border" real time.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Yeah, it feels like the solutions are to prop up their countries so they don't need to come here, or attempt to allow them here as safely as possible while taking some power away from the smugglers. Easier said than done, i realize.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
7 billion people in the world
I imagine 4-5 billion would love to live in the USA vs where they live
that's the "why" .... we are a great country with great qualities vs where many live. that's no excuse to come here illegally though
Stealthycat
Footballguy
pouring billions of US Tax dollars into the Govt's of Central/South American isn't a solution IMO
Stealthycat
Footballguy
there are probably 3-4 billion people on the planet that are desperate - we cannot accommodate them all can we ?
only a tight, secure border will get any results IMO and as long as its open there will be mass human trafficking and along with it deaths, rapes, sex slavery, assaults and everything that comes with it
the USA might not support all that, but we're creating the very situation that it breeds and there IS a responsibility there
The Commish
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Nowhere have I said that we can accommodate everybody on the planet, or that we should try.Stealthycat said:
Do you think the border was tight in the last 4 years, and is not now? #s have shown otherwise, and like I have stated - there were unintended consequences of the policies of the last 4 years (actually putting more money and power into he hands of the smugglers you are concerned about). Doesn't matter who is in charge or how much we pretend to puff out our chest about it, they are going to try anyway - the smugglers are too smart and savvy and they are experts at twisting the narrative to suit them no matter who the POTUS is.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
didn't you know ?The Commish said:
https://www.americamagazine.org/politics-society/2021/01/21/joe-biden-four-billion-dollar-immigration-plan-central-america-239732
The Biden administration has vowed to invest $4 billion in Central America to address issues like these and other factors that drive immigration to the United States. They include economic insecurity, violence, environmental crises and government corruption.
On his first day in office, Mr. Biden introduced the U.S. Citizenship Act of 2021, an immigration reform bill that offers aid to Central America. The bill proposes an approach that focuses on private investment in Central America, supporting programs to improve security and the rule of law and to confront corruption.
timschochet
Footballguy
The right doesn’t want to let any of these people in. They don’t want to give legality to any of the people already here. They don’t want to spend any money to help improve the conditions that created the desire for these people to come here.
All they want is to build a wall, deport all the undocumented people, and then wish for the whole thing to go away. It’s a lazy “solution” doomed to failure.
All they want is to build a wall, deport all the undocumented people, and then wish for the whole thing to go away. It’s a lazy “solution” doomed to failure.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
the border was tighter IMO and the administration much more dedicated to sealing it - Democrats fought it tooth and nail remember ?
in red - are they ?
does the USA do anything really at all to discourage the practice? do we prosecute? imprison? do we do anything to those people?
I mean there are known migrant routes/caravans, staging areas, networks in place ... no, I don't think the cartels are that smart and savvy in comparison to our military intelligence. Do this. Put thousands of military on the border and space them across the southern border and completely seal the border. Seal the border, stop people from crossing - yes absolutely 100% we could do it
When that happens, nobody is going to pay coyotes to get them into Mexico - and that entire human trafficking ring collapses. It puts all the focus on Mexico for allowing all those people to cross their country and the burden is squarely on them. Send that message and in a years time, people will stop flooding up towards USA IMO
I bet thousands die crossing through Mexico to the USA every year - and as long as this administration and Govt encourages it? that blood is on their hands IMO
Stealthycat
Footballguy
yes and no
the right has always supported legal immigration - its the "illegal" part that gripes us
yes build a wall because barriers are what everyone uses to deter unwanted, illegal entry
as for deportation ..... I'd make a deal right now. a 10 year process towards citizenship, a heavy monetary fine for being here illegally and a secure southern border
win win - illegal here have a path, secure border stops the humanitarian crisis there
timschochet
Footballguy
All it would stop is you having to be aware of it. If you were somehow able to secure the border, do you think these people will just give up and go home? And if they did what would happen to them? Not our problem right? Out of sight, out of mind, problem solved!
timschochet
Footballguy
A little over 80 years ago, we turned away other desperate refugees who sought asylum here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27373131
The arguments were the same back then: they didn’t have proper papers and there was no room. (The underlying, unspoken arguments were the same as well: they’re not like us and we don’t want more of them.)
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27373131
The arguments were the same back then: they didn’t have proper papers and there was no room. (The underlying, unspoken arguments were the same as well: they’re not like us and we don’t want more of them.)
Stealthycat
Footballguy
its a good series of questions
I personally think yes - people are not going to pay their life savings to be taken 1,000 miles to a closed border - that makes no sense, few people would do that.
However, to get to an open border with so many incentives for illegally entering people and an administration that's made it clear they're welcomed ? Yeah - they'd do that much faster IMO
"not our problem" .......... is it Mexico's problem ? Is it our problem that we offer so many attractive incentives as to encourage people to endanger their lives and their children's lives? I think both those are problems - I wanted Trump to really put these squeeze on Mexico to stop allow the trafficking and he didn't. Biden certainly won't.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
what does this have to do with what's happening right now ?
we are not in a world war, the people coming up are not refugee's or political asylum people - even Biden has said people are coming here because they're in poor countries and he's encouraged them all to STAY HOME
as for what happened 80 years + ago do not try to paint the USA as not accepting immigrants with one instance .....
https://exhibitions.ushmm.org/americans-and-the-holocaust/how-many-refugees-came-to-the-united-states-from-1933-1945
Though estimates vary, somewhere between 180,000 and 220,000 European refugees immigrated to the United States between 1933 and 1945. The United States accepted more refugees fleeing Nazi persecution than any other country in the world. Most of these refugees were Jewish and from central and western Europe.
The Commish
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
To be fair, I know a few that pretend all this and say all that, but are more than willing to hire them to help their bottom line.
a lot of talking out of both sides of the mouth going on.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Come on, you are actually proposing that we do a hands across America style of defense with our military for 1000s of miles across our southern border? You get hung up too much on words like "stop" and "sealed" as though we are going 100% prevent people from getting across the border.
As far as bolded 1 - it wasn't tighter - look at the numbers. What people were against is what they considered to be "crueler" policies - separating kids, etc..
The second bolded - absolutely they are. Read up on it. They way they go to villages, use SM, etc.. it's nuts. With Trump they sold it as - "it's going to get harder, so you need to go now", and there was some big #s of encounters. Now they are selling a little bit of hope. When the wall was going up, they showed videos of people getting over the all with ease, on and on. Also, how are you suggesting that we go about arresting, prosecuting smugglers from other countries that are probably working with corrupt governments?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
Stealthycat
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Then people will probably complain about cost of goods going up too.
Just saying it happens a bit, they know it and we know it, and silly for us to pretend to act too tough on them since when they get here there doesn't seem to be a huge lack of opportunity.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
I absolutely think sealing the border is possible. Most countries have secure borders and/or really tough penalties for illegally entering people ....
can you name any other country in the world that allows more immigration than we do AND suffers from hundreds of thousands trying to pour in illegally as well ?
We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked, and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently, and lawfully to become immigrants in this country.
Do you agree with that ?
Stealthycat
Footballguy
that's a what-if ..... and again i'll default and say absolutely, laws being broken needs to stop, don't you agree? the consequences would be American's getting jobs and/or better wages because I doubt businesses would fail. they'd simply have to use LEGAL labor
oh the horror
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Kind of, but agreeing to the bolded is not acknowledging the 100s of thousands that are stopped and sent back. We are not letting people "pour into" the country. Posts like your's make it seem like it's some kind of free for all at the border. Not sure if that is your intent or not.
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Stealthycat
Footballguy
Obama said those words December 15, 2005
What do you consider a free for all trying to illegally get into the USA every year ? 5,000 ? 50,000 ?
The Commish
Footballguy
Why are we fining people with no money? I've been told a billion times that laws just inhibit the people that follow them. Why are we punishing the law followers?
Sand
Footballguy
CNN Report - "Incomplete sections of the border wall have “become new transit points” and that at one incomplete segment, smugglers built a road to have better access to the entry point."
Not sure if they meant this unbiased reporting or not. I'm going with a hearty, unintentional self-own here.
Not sure if they meant this unbiased reporting or not. I'm going with a hearty, unintentional self-own here.
whoknew
Footballguy
You didn't ask me but - of course we can. I mean - I'm not sure how you would define "pour" but we've had lots and lots of undocumented people come to the US for a long time. So we most certainly can allow it.
Whether its good overall policy - well I reckon that's a neverending debate.
Stealthycat
Footballguy
like I said, Clinton spoke hard on it, GW did, Obama did, Trump did .... Biden not so much :( and still, we have tens of millions illegally here and a problem that costs billions to US taxpayers and if it was counted, likely costs thousands of lives to death and human trafficking
seal the border, its time
Stealthycat
Footballguy
"we" aren't allowing - this Government is ..... its time action is taken isn't it ?
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/illegal-immigrants-arrested-fy-2020-had-average-four-criminal-convictions-or-charges
According to the figures released by ICE, it conducted 103,603 administrative arrests in FY 2020. Of those arrested, 90% had criminal convictions or charges at the time of the arrest. The arrested immigrants had a total of more than 374,000 convictions and charges, an average of four per person.
https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/crimes-illegal-immigrants-widespread-across-us-sanctuaries-shouldnt
Non-citizens accounted for 24 percent of all federal drug arrests, 25 percent of all federal property arrests, and 28 percent of all federal fraud arrests.
In 2018, a quarter of all federal drug arrests took place in the five judicial districts along the U.S.-Mexico border.
Migrants from Central American countries are also accounting for a larger share of federal arrests, going from a negligible 1 percent of such arrests in 1998 to 20 percent today.
A recent report from the Texas Department of Public Safety revealed that 297,000 non-citizens had been “booked into local Texas jails between June 1, 2011 and July 31, 2019.” So these are non-citizens who allegedly committed local crimes, not immigration violations.
The report noted that a little more than two-thirds (202,000) of those booked in Texas jails were later confirmed as illegal immigrants by the federal government.
According to the Texas report, over the course of their criminal careers those illegal immigrants were charged with committing 494,000 criminal offenses.
Some of these cases are still being prosecuted, but the report states that there have already been over 225,000 convictions. Those convictions represent: 500 homicides; 23,954 assaults; 8,070 burglaries; 297 kidnappings; 14,178 thefts; 2,026 robberies; 3,122 sexual assaults; 3,840 sexual offenses; 3,158 weapon charges and tens of thousands of drug and obstruction charges
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/illegal-immigrants-arrested-fy-2020-had-average-four-criminal-convictions-or-charges
According to the figures released by ICE, it conducted 103,603 administrative arrests in FY 2020. Of those arrested, 90% had criminal convictions or charges at the time of the arrest. The arrested immigrants had a total of more than 374,000 convictions and charges, an average of four per person.
https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/crimes-illegal-immigrants-widespread-across-us-sanctuaries-shouldnt
Non-citizens accounted for 24 percent of all federal drug arrests, 25 percent of all federal property arrests, and 28 percent of all federal fraud arrests.
In 2018, a quarter of all federal drug arrests took place in the five judicial districts along the U.S.-Mexico border.
Migrants from Central American countries are also accounting for a larger share of federal arrests, going from a negligible 1 percent of such arrests in 1998 to 20 percent today.
A recent report from the Texas Department of Public Safety revealed that 297,000 non-citizens had been “booked into local Texas jails between June 1, 2011 and July 31, 2019.” So these are non-citizens who allegedly committed local crimes, not immigration violations.
The report noted that a little more than two-thirds (202,000) of those booked in Texas jails were later confirmed as illegal immigrants by the federal government.
According to the Texas report, over the course of their criminal careers those illegal immigrants were charged with committing 494,000 criminal offenses.
Some of these cases are still being prosecuted, but the report states that there have already been over 225,000 convictions. Those convictions represent: 500 homicides; 23,954 assaults; 8,070 burglaries; 297 kidnappings; 14,178 thefts; 2,026 robberies; 3,122 sexual assaults; 3,840 sexual offenses; 3,158 weapon charges and tens of thousands of drug and obstruction charges
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
No doubt. It’s a major problem in the building trades. Personally I wouldn’t use a company that wasn’t licensed and insured, you’re asking for trouble. Many don’t have a problem with it.
GoBirds
Footballguy
Can you imagine if the tables were turned and she had an (R) next to her name? Very sad, almost like she doesn’t want to fix the problems.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Must have done something, right? - at least those numbers you thought would do to infinity leveled off.
When Biden announced Harris being the immigration czar he said that one of her assignments was to "enhance migration enforcement at their [Mexico and Central American countries'] borders". That sounds an awful lot like resurrecting some form of the "remain in Mexico" policy. So what has she done? Trump enacted that policy, and it worked, and Biden unwound it on Day 1.
And how does the US address root causes exactly? Biden mentioned everything from corruption, gang violence, and climate change. he also mentioned that when he was assigned this task under Obama he worked to get a bipartisan bill signed that got $700 million appropriated to deal with those root causes. Does anyone think any amount close to that figure is going to solve the problem? Not that we can't try to alleviate the problem - we can and should - but it's fallacy to think that we can stem the tide of illegal immigration by addressing root causes only.
And how does the US address root causes exactly? Biden mentioned everything from corruption, gang violence, and climate change. he also mentioned that when he was assigned this task under Obama he worked to get a bipartisan bill signed that got $700 million appropriated to deal with those root causes. Does anyone think any amount close to that figure is going to solve the problem? Not that we can't try to alleviate the problem - we can and should - but it's fallacy to think that we can stem the tide of illegal immigration by addressing root causes only.
Must have done something, right? - at least those numbers you thought would do to infinity leveled off.
timschochet
Footballguy
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