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Mass Shootings Thread


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2 hours ago, parrot said:

It just sucks that the framers didn't think to put things like Freedom of Speech and the right to petition the government for a redress of grievances into the Bill of Rights as well.  Imagine if they had done that, and maybe put it right in the very first amendment! It would have been like they were okay with American citizens expressing opinions that might run counter to what they were putting down on pap... er... parchment.  Or... and I know this is going to sound crazy, but hear me out, it would have been really cool if they had built in some way to change the Constitution in case at some point, say 250 years in the future, people decided that maybe this document from 250 years in the past didn't perfectly address the current situation.  Oh well.  Swing and a miss there.  

You want to ban handguns?  Not assault rifles, but handguns.  Good luck with that, whether it’s by petition of grievance, Constitutional Amendment, whatever.  That’s why I suggest leaving the country, because the right to bear arms is never going away in this country, and it shouldn’t.  Self defense is a fundamental, God-given right.

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1 hour ago, ekbeats said:

You want to ban handguns?  Not assault rifles, but handguns.  Good luck with that, whether it’s by petition of grievance, Constitutional Amendment, whatever.  That’s why I suggest leaving the country, because the right to bear arms is never going away in this country, and it shouldn’t.  Self defense is a fundamental, God-given right.

weird that God doesn't require guns in other countries.  Guess we got the good gun-toting Murica one.

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1 hour ago, ekbeats said:

You want to ban handguns?  Not assault rifles, but handguns.  Good luck with that, whether it’s by petition of grievance, Constitutional Amendment, whatever.  That’s why I suggest leaving the country, because the right to bear arms is never going away in this country, and it shouldn’t.  Self defense is a fundamental, God-given right.

got a tad carried away with the bolded.  

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2 minutes ago, -fish- said:

weird that God doesn't require guns in other countries.  Guess we got the good gun-toting Murica one.

God is American, what can I say.  And I, along with 75% of Americans, like the fact we have the right to defend our families and our homes.  And guess what?  That right ain’t going away, no matter how much anti-freedom Lefties like yourself try.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

got a tad carried away with the bolded.  

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

The right to self defense is a natural right.  It’s written into our genetic code.  Even if you don’t believe in a traditional God it’s surely a fundamental aspect of nature.  Good luck taking that away.

Edited by ekbeats
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Are you saying self defense is not a human right?

Their true colors are coming out.  This is why the NRA doesn’t give an inch.  These people don’t just want common sense gun reform.  They want all guns banned.

Edited by ekbeats
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2 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

Their true colors are coming out.  This is why the NRA doesn’t give an inch.  These people don’t just want common sense gun reform.  They want all guns banned.

I used to support common sense gun reform when I had some semblance of faith in the government.  We're leaning closer to tyrannical than common sense these days, so they've lost my vote and faith in reform. 

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7 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I used to support common sense gun reform when I had some semblance of faith in the government.  We're leaning closer to tyrannical than common sense these days, so they've lost my vote and faith in reform. 

Im curious to hear any example of tyrannical gun reform in the past 20 years.  Thanks!

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3 minutes ago, Max Power said:
6 minutes ago, JAA said:

Im curious to hear any example of tyrannical gun reform in the past 20 years.  Thanks!

That isnt what I said.  You're welcome

:confused:

14 minutes ago, Max Power said:

I used to support common sense gun reform when I had some semblance of faith in the government.  We're leaning closer to tyrannical than common sense these days, so they've lost my vote and faith in reform. 

So then what did you say?

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28 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

Their true colors are coming out.  This is why the NRA doesn’t give an inch.  These people don’t just want common sense gun reform.  They want all guns banned.

That's weird, since I've repeatedly stated my position on guns in this thread and the one that preceded it.  I've never advocated for a gun ban.   It's really odd how people that parrot the NRA end up relying on false statements for their arguments.   I wonder why that is?  

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37 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

God is American, what can I say.  And I, along with 75% of Americans, like the fact we have the right to defend our families and our homes.  And guess what?  That right ain’t going away, no matter how much anti-freedom Lefties like yourself try.

Congratulations on this post by the way.    It really does sum up your whole argument quite nicely.   

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50 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

God is American, what can I say.  And I, along with 75% of Americans, like the fact we have the right to defend our families and our homes.  And guess what?  That right ain’t going away, no matter how much anti-freedom Lefties like yourself try.

got a tad carried away with the bolded.  ;)

also great for home protection = alarms, locks, hell an NRA sticker.  

 

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15 hours ago, the moops said:

10 people died needlessly and yet rather than show compassion, you feel the need to type this. Ugh

Agree. I should have used quotes because it was MSNBCs headline. 

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34 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

natural for humans to want to defend themselves? yes

God-given? no

Do you have a chart or something? I'm curious where the line gets drawn between god given rights vs basic human rights.

Or are we just splitting hairs because everyone has a different view on god?

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, -fish- said:

That's weird, since I've repeatedly stated my position on guns in this thread and the one that preceded it.  I've never advocated for a gun ban.   It's really odd how people that parrot the NRA end up relying on false statements for their arguments.   I wonder why that is?  

How about we just enforce the laws already on the books?  Let's start there and see how far that gets us.  :shrug:

And, to be fair, you're in here everyday with some tragedy.  I think you want to ban guns, but you realize you have to take baby steps first and if that means fooling people into committing to "common sense reforms" gets you closer to that goal you'll be fine for now.  But, you won't be satisfied.  When you get what you want then you'll want more.  That's how it is with you anti-gun types.  The goal is an outright ban.  It always was.

That's why we don't budge anymore. 

Edited by BladeRunner
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16 minutes ago, Max Power said:

Do you have a chart or something? I'm curious where the line gets drawn between god given rights vs basic human rights.

Or are we just splitting hairs because everyone has a different view on god?

probably the 2nd one.  

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9 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

How about we just enforce the laws already on the books?  Let's start there and see how far that gets us.  :shrug:

And, to be fair, you're in here everyday with some tragedy.  I think you want to ban guns, but you realize you have to take baby steps first and if that means fooling people into committing to "common sense reforms" gets you closer to that goal you'll be fine for now.  But, you won't be satisfied.  When you get what you want then you'll want more.  That's how it is with you anti-gun types.  The goal is an outright ban.  It always was.

That's why we don't budge anymore. 

They will never be satisfied with baby steps because it wont make a difference, at all.  If they ever get a tiny piece of legislation past, the mass shooting the very next week will prompt for more. Rince and repeat. That's what happens when you chase a false root cause. They are spinning their wheels.  

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5 hours ago, tonydead said:

They will never be satisfied with baby steps because it wont make a difference, at all.  If they ever get a tiny piece of legislation past, the mass shooting the very next week will prompt for more. Rince and repeat. That's what happens when you chase a false root cause. They are spinning their wheels.  

Ironic that you post this and continue to post the "aha - a mental illness!" every time it fits your narrative.  

Just like one side gets laughed at and accused of focusing on the wrong thing with "assault rifles" when handguns are used the most, you continue to post stuff like "of course it was X" when it's been shown that mental illness isn't involved in the majority of mass shootings. 

Also, I'm not sure sure how many people are claiming that the guns are a "root cause" of gun violence.   For me, they are just a too common and too efficient way of killing multiple people when somebody decides to go down that road.  

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

How about we just enforce the laws already on the books?  Let's start there and see how far that gets us.  :shrug:

And, to be fair, you're in here everyday with some tragedy.  I think you want to ban guns, but you realize you have to take baby steps first and if that means fooling people into committing to "common sense reforms" gets you closer to that goal you'll be fine for now.  But, you won't be satisfied.  When you get what you want then you'll want more.  That's how it is with you anti-gun types.  The goal is an outright ban.  It always was.

That's why we don't budge anymore. 

You don't budge because you think you know what other people's thoughts and intentions are?  High level of paranoia going on with your posts.  

Edited by KarmaPolice
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37 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

You don't budge because you think you know what other people's thoughts and intentions are?  Hight level of paranoia going on with your posts.  

So you know what's going on with his thoughts and intentions?

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Just now, Ramblin Wreck said:

So you know what's going on with his thoughts and intentions?

I can read his posts.  I am commenting on what he is putting down in writing, not what I believe his intentions are.  

 

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34 minutes ago, KarmaPolice said:

I can read his posts.  I am commenting on what he is putting down in writing, not what I believe his intentions are.  

 

I'm sure he can do the same as well but you seemed to call him out on it as you did it yourself.  Weird

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19 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

Defend yourself with a bat or a knife.  They are equally effective at inflicting damage, right?

There does seem to be some flawed logic here.  Guns are 0% the issue, if they disappeared there would be the same level of people killing people, but I must have a gun to effectively protect my family.   

To me that means either they are more effective at killing and inflicting damage (in which case people are correct to try to limit access to them, etc.. )  or they aren't and people would be OK with hunting and protecting with knives and bats.   I know which way I am more likely to lean in that scenario.  

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Posted (edited)

 

21 hours ago, BladeRunner said:

How about we just enforce the laws already on the books?  Let's start there and see how far that gets us.  :shrug:

And, to be fair, you're in here everyday with some tragedy.  I think you want to ban guns, but you realize you have to take baby steps first and if that means fooling people into committing to "common sense reforms" gets you closer to that goal you'll be fine for now.  But, you won't be satisfied.  When you get what you want then you'll want more.  That's how it is with you anti-gun types.  The goal is an outright ban.  It always was.

That's why we don't budge anymore. 

you're fake upset about mass shootings getting posted in a thread about mass shootings?  because it makes gun zealots look bad?  and then you lie about my position because you can't back yours up.

funny, this is straight off the NRA pages. sorry if i don't take you seriously.   when you actually form an argument let me know.

Edited by -fish-
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when you say "we won't budge" who is "we"?  the 77% of gun owners who support expanded background checks?  the same percentage of republicans that support them?

or a minority of NRA parroting extremists? 

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, -fish- said:

Congratulations on this post by the way.    It really does sum up your whole argument quite nicely.   

And your position appears to be that self defense via 2A isn’t a God given right.  You have every opportunity here to clarify your positions btw.  

Edited by ekbeats
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Just now, ekbeats said:

And your position appears to be that self defense via 2A isn’t a God given right.  You have every opportunity here to clarify what your position btw.  

The 2nd Amendment is not "God given". It didn't come down from on high on stone tablets, or through a prophet speaking in tongues.  It was written by men.  Fallible men that knew they didn't know everything. 

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1 hour ago, -fish- said:

 

you're fake upset about mass shootings getting posted in a thread about mass shootings?  because it makes gun zealots look bad?  and then you lie about my position because you can't back yours up.

funny, this is straight off the NRA pages. sorry if i don't take you seriously.   when you actually form an argument let me know.

I'm fake upset?  I'm not the zealot who's posting in here day after day with every shooting I can find.  That would be you. :shrug:

How about you start making good faith posts instead of hyperventilating about needing more reform.  We already have laws on the books.  Let's start enforcing them first and see where that gets us.

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16 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

The 2nd Amendment is not "God given". It didn't come down from on high on stone tablets, or through a prophet speaking in tongues.  It was written by men.  Fallible men that knew they didn't know everything. 

Exodus 22:2: ‘If a thief is caught breaking in at night & is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.’ 

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34 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

The 2nd Amendment is not "God given". It didn't come down from on high on stone tablets, or through a prophet speaking in tongues.  It was written by men.  Fallible men that knew they didn't know everything. 

And yet here you are, thinking you know what's right for EVERYONE.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

And yet here you are, thinking you know what's right for EVERYONE.

Do you not do the same thing? I'm giving my opinion on this topic.  It's as valid as yours.

Unfortunately, your opinion that easy access to firearms for almost anyone outweighs the benefit to society that restrictions would bring is carrying the day.  I hope that changes. 

Edited by The Z Machine
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1 hour ago, The Z Machine said:

The 2nd Amendment is not "God given". It didn't come down from on high on stone tablets, or through a prophet speaking in tongues.  It was written by men.  Fallible men that knew they didn't know everything. 

Exactly 

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39 minutes ago, ekbeats said:

Exodus 22:2: ‘If a thief is caught breaking in at night & is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.’ 

What does that have to do with guns or the 2nd Amendment?

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1 hour ago, ekbeats said:

And your position appears to be that self defense via 2A isn’t a God given right.  You have every opportunity here to clarify your positions btw.  

the second amendment isn't a god-given anything, and half of it doesn't even mean anything anymore.  

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33 minutes ago, The Z Machine said:

Do you not do the same thing? I'm giving my opinion on this topic.  It's as valid as yours.

Unfortunately, your opinion that easy access to firearms for almost anyone outweighs the benefit to society that restrictions would bring is carrying the day.  I hope that changes. 

he'll not only give his opinion, but he'll tell you what yours is even though he's just making things up.  

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54 minutes ago, BladeRunner said:

I'm fake upset?  I'm not the zealot who's posting in here day after day with every shooting I can find.  That would be you. :shrug:

How about you start making good faith posts instead of hyperventilating about needing more reform.  We already have laws on the books.  Let's start enforcing them first and see where that gets us.

if the laws we had were effective, there wouldn't be another mass murder every day.   so instead of pretending guns aren't a problem, rational people, including the vast majority of gun owners, want change.  you're in a small, sad minority.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, -fish- said:

if the laws we had were effective, there wouldn't be another mass murder every day.   so instead of pretending guns aren't a problem, rational people, including the vast majority of gun owners, want change.  you're in a small, sad minority.

They aren't effective if you aren't enforcing them.  From the police, to the DA's to the judges - if they won't put teeth on violators then of course they won't be effective.

Also, I'm in a YUUUUUUGGGEEEE majority with the rest of the gun owners of the US.  :thumbup:

You champagne/limousine liberals are in the minority.

Edited by BladeRunner
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2 hours ago, ekbeats said:

Exodus 22:2: ‘If a thief is caught breaking in at night & is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed.’ 

fair. 

should we also start quoting the other nonsense and punishments from that book too? 

Also, weren't those words written by man too? 

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Just now, KarmaPolice said:

fair. 

should we also start quoting the other nonsense and punishments from that book too? 

Also, weren't those words written by man too? 

The right to self defense is a natural law as well as God-given, so pick your poison.  As I said earlier, it is programmed into our DNA and replete throughout nature.  You want to argue that your version of God doesn’t believe in that?  That’s great - I won’t argue with you on a personal religious belief.  But I will point out that yours is a minority belief, and in contravention to the founding fathers.

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