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amen (1 Viewer)

There's always an alien battle cruiser, or a Corellian death ray, or an intergalactic plague intended to wipe out life on this miserable little planet.

Let there be peace on Earth, and let it begin with me. 

I'm sorry that I don't have a better response to this than flippancy, but humanity has always had this internal struggle and always will, and the urgency of our current situation is no more dire than in any other time in history. Maybe I'm not 'Christian' enough to be so moved by the crises of the day, but neither will I let myself get all spun up over boogey men. I'll leave you with a passage from my favorite book, Ecclesiastes (the first six lines of chapter 4, FWIW):

Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun:

I saw the tears of the oppressed—
    and they have no comforter;
power was on the side of their oppressors—
    and they have no comforter.
2 And I declared that the dead,
    who had already died,
are happier than the living,
    who are still alive.
3 But better than both
    is the one who has never been born,
who has not seen the evil
    that is done under the sun.


4 And I saw that all toil and all achievement spring from one person’s envy of another. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

5 Fools fold their hands
    and ruin themselves.
6 Better one handful with tranquillity
    than two handfuls with toil
    and chasing after the wind.


:hophead:

 
A Wing & a Prayer

i dont always see eye2eye with this excellent & difficult fellow and do not ascribe the kingdom, power or glory he cites, but he nails the rest of. if not now, when?


I love this application of the book.  He doesn't appeal to its authority - he appeals to the nature and wisdom of the lessons therein.

Powerful message.

 
3 But better than both
    is the one who has never been born,
who has not seen the evil
    that is done under the sun.
also a bit flippant, but i've used this many times to counter my anti-abortion bible thumping kin. leaves them a little dumbfounded when i explain their bible is fairly mixed on the topic too. heh. 

also couldn't agree more with the rest of your thinking. there is nothing new under the sun. these current divisions many are calling the worst ever are barely par for the course. those saying these things have a short-sighted view from being caught in the trees without seeing the forest. trynna think of more applicable cliches. nah...

but what wikkid's guy has to say was earnestly forwarded to my bible thumping civil war seeking loved ones.

 
There's always an alien battle cruiser, or a Corellian death ray, or an intergalactic plague intended to wipe out life on this miserable little planet.

Let there be peace on Earth, and let it begin with me. 

I'm sorry that I don't have a better response to this than flippancy, but humanity has always had this internal struggle and always will, and the urgency of our current situation is no more dire than in any other time in history. Maybe I'm not 'Christian' enough to be so moved by the crises of the day, but neither will I let myself get all spun up over boogey men. I'll leave you with a passage from my favorite book, Ecclesiastes (the first six lines of chapter 4, FWIW):

Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun:

I saw the tears of the oppressed—
    and they have no comforter;
power was on the side of their oppressors—
    and they have no comforter.
2 And I declared that the dead,
    who had already died,
are happier than the living,
    who are still alive.
3 But better than both
    is the one who has never been born,
who has not seen the evil
    that is done under the sun.


4 And I saw that all toil and all achievement spring from one person’s envy of another. This too is meaningless, a chasing after the wind.

5 Fools fold their hands
    and ruin themselves.
6 Better one handful with tranquillity
    than two handfuls with toil
    and chasing after the wind.


:hophead:


"Now all has been heard and here is the conclusion of the matter:  Fear God and keep all of His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man."

 
also a bit flippant, but i've used this many times to counter my anti-abortion bible thumping kin. leaves them a little dumbfounded when i explain their bible is fairly mixed on the topic too. heh. 

also couldn't agree more with the rest of your thinking. there is nothing new under the sun. these current divisions many are calling the worst ever are barely par for the course. those saying these things have a short-sighted view from being caught in the trees without seeing the forest. trynna think of more applicable cliches. nah...

but what wikkid's guy has to say was earnestly forwarded to my bible thumping civil war seeking loved ones.


Not remotely so for those that care to look.  But when you have just a single point to make, pulling a single passage out for scoring points is pretty simple.

 
Not remotely so for those that care to look.  But when you have just a single point to make, pulling a single passage out for scoring points is pretty simple.
i pull over a dozen passages, but not doing it here and never visited the politics forum. also qualified the post as a bit flippant. appreciate your reply, apologize for noting my use of the passage, let's stick to the lovely thoughts in wikkid's topic. mea culpa.

 
also a bit flippant, but i've used this many times to counter my anti-abortion bible thumping kin. leaves them a little dumbfounded when i explain their bible is fairly mixed on the topic too. heh. 

also couldn't agree more with the rest of your thinking. there is nothing new under the sun. these current divisions many are calling the worst ever are barely par for the course. those saying these things have a short-sighted view from being caught in the trees without seeing the forest. trynna think of more applicable cliches. nah...

but what wikkid's guy has to say was earnestly forwarded to my bible thumping civil war seeking loved ones.
Ouch.

"Now all has been heard and here is the conclusion of the matter:  Fear God and keep all of His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man."
:hifive:

 
Yeah not usually a fan but I agree with what he said but I think we can identify the enemy and it isn't my neighbor it's the people poisoning my neighbors against each other. The politicians that rule on that divide and the press that makes the case for them.

 
Yeah not usually a fan but I agree with what he said but I think we can identify the enemy and it isn't my neighbor it's the people poisoning my neighbors against each other. The politicians that rule on that divide and the press that makes the case for them.
I agree with what you're saying here. I also thought a large part of what he was saying was that when we think it's our neighbor with the capacity to sin or transgress, it's really us confused about our perceptions of them, and therefore, back on us. I think self-ownership of our faults and frailties is a big thing here. It's the old "if I point a finger at you, I really have three pointed back at me," only he does it placing an emphasis on the imperfections of our own perceptions, especially how distorted perceptions of our true selves and our truths colors how we perceive others. 

Very interesting what he says, and it took me a time or two to understand that's where he was going. The greater the distance we are from our true selves, our truth, the more imperfections we see in our neighbors not because our neighbors are actually that way, but that our perception of everything is off. 

 
the fish may rot from the head, but personal indolence & arrogance are the wet market of this pandemic.

morals are the base of all of it, because we are now each in charge of our morals for the first time, en masse, in human history and our incompetence in that regard is only matched by our negligence.

we cannot design a society so strong that we no longer need to be good. most of us are good at heart, but few in deed. we need to be held to account for this on elemental levels with eyes to both compassion and justice. i've been railing about this on forums for over a decade and only now have company discussing this issue because it's all coming to account and is only beginning. if not now, when?

 
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I gave a presentation the other day. The topic was essentially "how to be a grown up by taking responsibility of yourself and for others". It was basically a vocabulary lesson - I believe in the power of words, especially those aspirational. Here are some of my notes.

Grown ups:
A) Take responsibility for themselves and others 
B) Have a healthy self image
C) Understand "The Big Picture"

Don't be petty - a derivation of the word petit

Two attitudes to break/beware of:

1. Envy - I want what you have
Jealousy - You don't deserve what you have
Coveting - I'm so jealous of the gap between us that I'm willing to sabotage things so you can't have them either 

This all leads to murmuring and gossiping which leads to a lack of unity.

2. Stinginess - IT'S MINE
- My time
- My money
- My edification (speaking good of others)
- My forgiveness

See also: parsimonious, which is "frugal to the point of stinginess"

Two attitudes to adopt:

Magnanimity - loftiness of spirit enabling one to bear trouble calmly, to disdain meanness and pettiness, and to display a noble generosity

Empathy - You don't have to know how people feel in order to feel for people.

 
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Parsimonious will get you 

  • more syllables
  • more mellifluousness
  • less Ichabod Crane old-timey personal


tru dat. and some people might think i'm comparing them to Sting. but it's so apropos these days.........i wont use it unless i can also work "apropos" and/or "Elviscostelloey" into the comment as well.

ETA: plus, "parsimonious" sounds like it grows on a tree

 
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tru dat. and some people might think i'm comparing them to Sting. but it's so apropos these days....i wont use it unless i can also work "apropos" and/or "Elviscostelloey" into the comment as well.
Nice. I'm going to covet that adjective you came up with there. 

 
Nice. I'm going to covet that adjective you came up with there. 
The other word I was going to work into the talk was "Hoarding"* which is a behavior akin, yet different, to stinginess. People usually use it in terms of stuff, but it's more than that. All of it really relates to the true, all encompassing word I want to use - narcissism. But that one is too gruff to get people to pay attention.

*Not to be confused with "whoring", @wikkidpissah

 
The other word I was going to work into the talk was "Hoarding"* which is a behavior akin, yet different, to stinginess. People usually use it in terms of stuff, but it's more than that. All of it really relates to the true, all encompassing word I want to use - narcissism. But that one is too gruff to get people to pay attention.

*Not to be confused with "whoring", @wikkidpissah
I think the entire 21st Century just cringed with a little shame, myself included. 

 
I've found leading a relatively simple life where I've abandoned most of my "wants" has really destressed my life. There are things I need of course but by getting over the need to just consume to consume has been quite liberating. And learning the the real difference between want and need is very edifying. 

 
I've found leading a relatively simple life where I've abandoned most of my "wants" has really destressed my life. There are things I need of course but by getting over the need to just consume to consume has been quite liberating. And learning the the real difference between want and need is very edifying. 
A tangent in the presentation I gave was giving my opinion that the very first thing that people can do to accept responsibility is to get their finances in order - and the first step in that is to prioritize spending and really consider every purchase they intend to make.  

 
A tangent in the presentation I gave was giving my opinion that the very first thing that people can do to accept responsibility is to get their finances in order - and the first step in that is to prioritize spending and really consider every purchase they intend to make.  
I eschewed credit cards sometime ago. Paying interest on baubles makes little sense. So around here we save up and watch for sales for stuff that isn't an essential and even with the essentials I try to be careful that we maximize the value we get. Heck I haven't had a car payment in years. I haven't owned a new car either but I'm cool with that. A car is a tool to me not a status symbol.

 
The other word I was going to work into the talk was "Hoarding"* which is a behavior akin, yet different, to stinginess. People usually use it in terms of stuff, but it's more than that. All of it really relates to the true, all encompassing word I want to use - narcissism. But that one is too gruff to get people to pay attention.

*Not to be confused with "whoring", @wikkidpissah
 narcissism is the $64 word here. the underrated "inconsiderate" is my Costco substitute.

 
I've found leading a relatively simple life where I've abandoned most of my "wants" has really destressed my life. There are things I need of course but by getting over the need to just consume to consume has been quite liberating. And learning the the real difference between want and need is very edifying. 
18:00

 
I thought maybe this was a thread about the Sherman Hemsley sitcom.

Then I thought it was about the Greatest American Hero.

Maybe I watched too much TV in the 80's.   :nerd:
Assumed it was a Sherman Hemsley/Crystal Bernard mashup....then I recalled Sherm as no longer with us (which wouldn't necessarily 86 said sitcom, I suppose).

 
I usually cringe when crossing paths with JBP, but yeah, that was a worthy message.  As he alluded to upfront (and maybe outright stated later), people are profiting from the division of citizens, and compounding those profits into further chaos ... which I won't dare explore in this forum.

My Link:  David Whyte

 

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