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How 'bout them Reds! (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter shuke
- Start date
Just stunned that they would give up Kearns and Lopez.
RedRaiders
Mr. +EV
Too bad they couldn't find a team to trade with that had good middle relievers.
On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
i refuse to be pissed about this trade until the middle of next year.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
That dude's been on the block for months. Ain't nobody taking a crappy defensive catcher who makes as much as Scupper does.
I think Furman said last night that Krivsky has been trying to trade Larue for months.
fasteddie_21
2006 NM Poker Champ
Whoa This is the biggest one in years... I too was shocked at the return but calming down it might make some more sense. We didn't trade Dunn or BP or EE -- whew...
I'm guilty of being attached to Kearns' potential and what he was back in 2002 at the age of 22. Ditto Lopez and his 2005 breakout. In reality they may be average starters with quickly escalating salaries.
Kearns career high is 387 AB in 2005, 18HR and 67RBI Career .358 OBP. He's never come within 60 pts of his sweet 2002 rookie season (.407 OBP and .907 OPS). Trading your best defensive OF is a bit odd given the current defensive mantra.
Lopez certainly had much higher value last offseason. He's a career .745 OPS guy with questionable defense and a rising salary.
Can't say I know the two BP guys from Adam, but Majewski has a career .688 OPS over 107IP. And he's cheap for a while. Bray looks interesting, cheap and young.
Clayton is fodder and irrelevant other than a stopgap SS for 2006.
I'm still not sure why you wouldn't deal Lopez + Kearns separately.
Salary freedom in 2007?? Lopez + Kearns would have been a $10M hit in 2007. If this $10M is redeployed to a #2 starter and a pen arm then we've got something.
Now how to get rid of the KGJ/Milton/Larue $25M deadweight anchor in 2007.
Plan has to be getting Mays out of the rotation. Biggest weakness by far now.
This should keep DenO + EE in the plans for years to come.
-fe
I'm guilty of being attached to Kearns' potential and what he was back in 2002 at the age of 22. Ditto Lopez and his 2005 breakout. In reality they may be average starters with quickly escalating salaries.
Kearns career high is 387 AB in 2005, 18HR and 67RBI Career .358 OBP. He's never come within 60 pts of his sweet 2002 rookie season (.407 OBP and .907 OPS). Trading your best defensive OF is a bit odd given the current defensive mantra.
Lopez certainly had much higher value last offseason. He's a career .745 OPS guy with questionable defense and a rising salary.
Can't say I know the two BP guys from Adam, but Majewski has a career .688 OPS over 107IP. And he's cheap for a while. Bray looks interesting, cheap and young.
Clayton is fodder and irrelevant other than a stopgap SS for 2006.
I'm still not sure why you wouldn't deal Lopez + Kearns separately.
Salary freedom in 2007?? Lopez + Kearns would have been a $10M hit in 2007. If this $10M is redeployed to a #2 starter and a pen arm then we've got something.
Now how to get rid of the KGJ/Milton/Larue $25M deadweight anchor in 2007.
Plan has to be getting Mays out of the rotation. Biggest weakness by far now.
This should keep DenO + EE in the plans for years to come.
-fe
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Ryan Freel is still on the bench. Un
ingreal
ingreal
fasteddie_21
2006 NM Poker Champ
Injured right shoulder.-feRyan Freel is still on the bench. Un
On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
fasteddie_21
2006 NM Poker Champ
Something from the best Reds forum on the net:
"Fans always analyze trades in very black and white terms. The look at the players involved, decide which players are better and that's that. Very rarely do people truly analyze how trade affects the overall SITUATION.
I LOVED this trade. I mean, LOVED it.
I don't love it because I think Majewski is superior baseball player to Kearns. Not in the least. But I love it because of what it shows me.
I am a firm believer that it is difficult to impossible to rebuild a losing team with the same players that have been losing for years. I don't want to delve too deeply into the "losing culture" theory, but I do think it has some merit. It's just hard for a new GM/owner to make the necessary changes to the franchise if the main characters remain the same.
Nothing envigorates a franchise more than young, energetic players. Yes, we lost Kearns, but basically, we gained Deno. He's always been there, but for the first time, he is an actual part of this team. I absolutely think you need to include his name EVERY time you talk about this trade.
The relievers we got aren't incredible, but they are both much better than what we've had and much YOUNGER than what we've had. Those should be two bullpen slots that we can rely on for the next few years.
There was always something about Felo I didn't like. I think it was what was between his ears. For a guy that was occasionally brilliant, he had some unreal mental lapses that shouldn't affect a player of his age.
Don't you see the parallel? Both Lopez and Kearns were once SUPERSTARS of the Reds future. Neither was bust by any means. But then again, neither se the world on fire. What you have in Kearns and Lopez are two player sthat have peaked. They can both certainly maintain their current level for many years, but neither is going to be a consistent all-start. All in all, you were looking at two average to above average major leaguers that will probably have one or two years of near all-star level play (Lopez may have already had his career year).
I'm not saying that Kearns and Lopez were "losers" or "cancers" or anything of the sort. But the bottom line is that when you have a puzzle that doesn't look right, you simply MUST try some new pieces.
People have this view of Kearns and Lopez as being these fantastic up and coming youngsters. That ship has sailed. They are what they are.
And what are the Reds now?
IMO, a better TEAM.
Good work Wayne."
Very good points and I agree.
-fe
"Fans always analyze trades in very black and white terms. The look at the players involved, decide which players are better and that's that. Very rarely do people truly analyze how trade affects the overall SITUATION.
I LOVED this trade. I mean, LOVED it.
I don't love it because I think Majewski is superior baseball player to Kearns. Not in the least. But I love it because of what it shows me.
I am a firm believer that it is difficult to impossible to rebuild a losing team with the same players that have been losing for years. I don't want to delve too deeply into the "losing culture" theory, but I do think it has some merit. It's just hard for a new GM/owner to make the necessary changes to the franchise if the main characters remain the same.
Nothing envigorates a franchise more than young, energetic players. Yes, we lost Kearns, but basically, we gained Deno. He's always been there, but for the first time, he is an actual part of this team. I absolutely think you need to include his name EVERY time you talk about this trade.
The relievers we got aren't incredible, but they are both much better than what we've had and much YOUNGER than what we've had. Those should be two bullpen slots that we can rely on for the next few years.
There was always something about Felo I didn't like. I think it was what was between his ears. For a guy that was occasionally brilliant, he had some unreal mental lapses that shouldn't affect a player of his age.
Don't you see the parallel? Both Lopez and Kearns were once SUPERSTARS of the Reds future. Neither was bust by any means. But then again, neither se the world on fire. What you have in Kearns and Lopez are two player sthat have peaked. They can both certainly maintain their current level for many years, but neither is going to be a consistent all-start. All in all, you were looking at two average to above average major leaguers that will probably have one or two years of near all-star level play (Lopez may have already had his career year).
I'm not saying that Kearns and Lopez were "losers" or "cancers" or anything of the sort. But the bottom line is that when you have a puzzle that doesn't look right, you simply MUST try some new pieces.
People have this view of Kearns and Lopez as being these fantastic up and coming youngsters. That ship has sailed. They are what they are.
And what are the Reds now?
IMO, a better TEAM.
Good work Wayne."
Very good points and I agree.
-fe
Giant Wooden Badger
the Beav
It was a bad trade no matter how anyone wants to spin it. Kearns/Lopez should have fetched more/better than what they got. Period.
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
blenderfrog
All your base are belong to us
Where's the Concepcion bobble?
On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
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Limp Ditka
Footballguy
So you trade away Kearns and Lopez for bullpen help and still let Milton pitch to Beltran with the bases loaded and two outs in the 7th
Giant Wooden Badger
the Beav
It was a solid call.So you trade away Kearns and Lopez for bullpen help and still let Milton pitch to Beltran with the bases loaded and two outs in the 7th
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Please tell me that you forgot this --->It was a solid call.So you trade away Kearns and Lopez for bullpen help and still let Milton pitch to Beltran with the bases loaded and two outs in the 7th
Giant Wooden Badger
the Beav
Check the avatar.Please tell me that you forgot this --->It was a solid call.So you trade away Kearns and Lopez for bullpen help and still let Milton pitch to Beltran with the bases loaded and two outs in the 7th
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
So you trade away Kearns and Lopez for bullpen help and still let Milton pitch to Beltran with the bases loaded and two outs in the 7th
Not to mention the batter before he walked living la vida loco or whatever his name is on 4 straight pitches and his stuff looked awful.I guess this is what we get for having someone who had a 57-71 career as our pitching coach.
jafo
Out of Mind
Interesting stat.
Since the trade, Dunn is batting .474.
After looking at his numbers I think he's changed his approach. Since the beginning of the month he is walking much less and being more aggressive at the plate for hits. He's only walked 5 times this month. 1 BB every 12.6 ABs.
For his career , he averages 1 BB every 5.9 ABs.
Less walks, more hits.
Since the trade, Dunn is batting .474.
After looking at his numbers I think he's changed his approach. Since the beginning of the month he is walking much less and being more aggressive at the plate for hits. He's only walked 5 times this month. 1 BB every 12.6 ABs.
For his career , he averages 1 BB every 5.9 ABs.
Less walks, more hits.
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shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
Does this coincide with being in the 2 spot ahead of Griffey?Interesting stat.
Since the trade, Dunn is batting .474.
After looking at his numbers I think he's changed his approach. Since the beginning of the month he is walking much less and being more aggressive at the plate for hits. He's only walked 5 times this month. 1 BB every 12.6 ABs.
For his career , he averages 1 BB every 5.9 ABs.
Less walks, more hits.
jafo
Out of Mind
Partially, I believe Dunn hit 5th in the order for the first game against the Rockies last week. Every game since though he's been hitting 2nd.I can't remember how often he was hitting 2nd before the all star break, but it doesn't seem like it was a lot.Does this coincide with being in the 2 spot ahead of Griffey?Interesting stat.
Since the trade, Dunn is batting .474.
After looking at his numbers I think he's changed his approach. Since the beginning of the month he is walking much less and being more aggressive at the plate for hits. He's only walked 5 times this month. 1 BB every 12.6 ABs.
For his career , he averages 1 BB every 5.9 ABs.
Less walks, more hits.
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On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
anyone following the game this afternoon?
does Glavine typically fall apart after 5 innings?
does Glavine typically fall apart after 5 innings?
On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
Mets 2 - Reds 0 Bottom of 4thwlw doesn't work this this old thick building... What's the score?anyone following the game this afternoon?
does Glavine typically fall apart after 5 innings?
On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
do you have a link? I can't get it from wlw's site.Live internet feed down?wlw doesn't work this this old thick building... What's the score?anyone following the game this afternoon?
does Glavine typically fall apart after 5 innings?
shuke
Black Ice Skeptic
I spoke too soon. Went there to listen and they're not allowed to stream games.do you have a link? I can't get it from wlw's site.Live internet feed down?wlw doesn't work this this old thick building... What's the score?anyone following the game this afternoon?
does Glavine typically fall apart after 5 innings?
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
All right
Ryan Freel's 3-4 with 2 RBIs
Guess that means he's due to start again next Friday
Ryan Freel's 3-4 with 2 RBIs
Guess that means he's due to start again next Friday
On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
yes.....the bad news...
going extra innings in a day game following a night game where they used 7 pitchers = bullpen disaster.
going extra innings in a day game following a night game where they used 7 pitchers = bullpen disaster.
On The Rocks
Evil Conservative
Majewski is paying instant dividends.
WampusCat43
Footballguy
Well, they quit serving beer after the 7th, anyway. Might as well put the game out of reach so we can go home early.Majewski is paying instant dividends.
Peyton Marino
Footballguy
And this surprises you?
jafo
Out of Mind
I agree. We are on the winning end of a record since the break, and last time I checked we were still in first place for the wild card.I think Majewski will come around. He has to know about the fan reaction to the trade, and I'm sure he'd love to do his best. The first couple pitching appearance are the roughest, I'm holding out hope at least.
