*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (1 Viewer)

[Todem]

So first it is, 'refs should be giving the home team more calls, they are playing on their home court after all'and now it is'it shouldn't matter that the refs give the Heat more calls, they were only shooting 70% from the line after all'They only missed a lot of free throws because they were there the whole game.

Stop it already. Wade and James were going hard to the basket almost every play. They were getting fouled almost every time because Boston has no way to stop them. They should've been shooting that many free throws. Did the refs miss a few calls, yes. They do every game. Sometimes it goes in your favor, sometimes not. However, if you want to force the refs to look at you closely, you have to be aggressive. Miami had two guys doing that on every play. Boston had one guy doing that half the time and the settled for jumpers the rest of the time. No big surprise that Miami was getting more calls.

Very Wilked come on man how long have you been watching NBA basketball? This is exactly what you want your star players who are two of the very best slashers in the game to do.Since when is Miami a jump shooting team? Quit your whining . I flip when I see them go to the hole a ton and get no calls. Which has happened plenty ON THE ROAD.When the sereies shifts to Boston Friday night Boston home cooking will be prevalent.....to a point. Talent and more youth will win out in the end. Boston still has 4 all-star caliber players. If Allen was not hurt...this series would probably be 1-1. I also expect the Thunder to roar back into their series tonight and snap the Spurs amazing 20 game winning streak and get this thing to 2-2 by the weekend. Boston obviously has a must win do or die game three. The Heat will have to bring their very best game as I expect Boston to play well again and get some home cooking so Miami will have to have a strong shooting night (the calls will be less..maybe far less in the paint this time around) and play tenacious defense.I expect to see our Road Warrior Red jerseys Friday night!

 

[the moops]

It has never been like this in the NBA.

Come on dude.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

It has never been like this in the NBA.

It's been like this ever since the 90s Bulls. Its the same time that palming became completely legal.

 

[wilked]

Since when is Miami a jump shooting team? Quit your whining

Do me a favor, click through the quarters herehttp://scores.espn.go.com/nba/shotchart?gameId=320530014Other than the 3rd where Miami dominated, tell me if either team was predominantly shooting from in the paint over the other?

 

[wilked]

It has never been like this in the NBA.

Come on dude.

Do you think Lebron, with 9 fouls in 8 games, isn't getting undue star treatment? Or do you just think that is how it has always been, always will be, and any team playing against them should be expected to play with that disadvantage? Or the 25-6 technical disparity, do you think that is just the ante you have to throw in when you line up against the Heat? Rather than use smileys, tell me in words

 

[BigSteelThrill]

It has never been like this in the NBA.

Come on dude.

Do you think Lebron, with 9 fouls in 8 games, isn't getting undue star treatment? Or do you just think that is how it has always been, always will be, and any team playing against them should be expected to play with that disadvantage? Or the 25-6 technical disparity, do you think that is just the ante you have to throw in when you line up against the Heat? Rather than use smileys, tell me in words

Welcome to NBA basketball.

 

[the moops]

It has never been like this in the NBA.

Come on dude.

Do you think Lebron, with 9 fouls in 8 games, isn't getting undue star treatment? Or do you just think that is how it has always been, always will be, and any team playing against them should be expected to play with that disadvantage? Or the 25-6 technical disparity, do you think that is just the ante you have to throw in when you line up against the Heat? Rather than use smileys, tell me in words

I think home teams that play an aggressive style of offense and defense get more calls than jump shooting visiting teams. This is true at every single level.Lebron James only got called for 1.5 fouls per game during the regular season. Him getting 9 fouls in 8 games is not out of line with what he did all year.James got to the line a lot. They all seemed pretty damn legit to me. Guy got mauled on a few other occasions and nothing was called.The technicals called on Doc and Allen were a joke. I will give you that.

 

[cheese]

So first it is, 'refs should be giving the home team more calls, they are playing on their home court after all'and now it is'it shouldn't matter that the refs give the Heat more calls, they were only shooting 70% from the line after all'They only missed a lot of free throws because they were there the whole game.

Stop it already. Wade and James were going hard to the basket almost every play. They were getting fouled almost every time because Boston has no way to stop them. They should've been shooting that many free throws. Did the refs miss a few calls, yes. They do every game. Sometimes it goes in your favor, sometimes not. However, if you want to force the refs to look at you closely, you have to be aggressive. Miami had two guys doing that on every play. Boston had one guy doing that half the time and the settled for jumpers the rest of the time. No big surprise that Miami was getting more calls.

While I basically agree with you, it is what makes it pretty much unwatchable for me. Seemingly every play is a guy barrelling through the lane trying to dunk and if you do anything about it they call a foul instantly. I don't think that's "unfair". I just think it's a terrible brand of basketball that I won't be watching. This is an NBA compared to college thing more than anything else, but the Heat seem to be the biggest offenders in what little I've watched.

 

[TobiasFunke]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nba-s-problematic-ownership-of-hornets-opens-door-to-rigged-talk-over-draft-lottery-20120531.html

"It's such a joke that the league made the new owners be at the lottery for the show," one high-ranking team executive told Yahoo! Sports. "The league still owns the Hornets. Ask their front office if new owners can make a trade right now. They can't. This is a joke."

It's remarkable to me that people could be successful enough in business to rise to the level of an NBA front office executive who gets quoted by a famous basketball writer and still be stupid enough to think the NBA would fix a draft to favor the Hornets AFTER the team was sold. I hope to God that none of the executives who were sources for that article work for my team. Talk about lacking business sense. Women with great cans don't wear oversized sweaters to the bar on a Saturday night. If you've got something to sell, you don't hide it from everyone until you make a deal.

 

[Abraham]

Then you have guys like Ferris and Abe say the Heat deserve all of that, they are playing at home and that's how the NBA works and if the Celtics can't overcome it they don't deserve to win anyway.

I think you are misunderstanding. The best players have gotten calls FOR YEARS. And it isn't usually by a little. I'm sure Bill Russell got a lot of calls. Wilt fouled out of, what, ONE GAME his whole career? No one was beating Jordan or Magic or Isiah or Kobe in the playoffs in a straight up, perfectly called game. That;s how it always has been. I'm sorry its happening to the team you want to win, but every spring there are articles about horrible officiating and every spring nothing changes.

 

[wilked]

James got to the line a lot. They all seemed pretty damn legit to me. Guy got mauled on a few other occasions and nothing was called.

He certainly got mauled when he fell on top of Rondo, and Rondo was called for a foul, apparently not for not cushioning Lebron's fall enough.In all seriousness though I do not remember many others involving him that were too egregious. Wade on the other hand...

 

[wilked]

Then you have guys like Ferris and Abe say the Heat deserve all of that, they are playing at home and that's how the NBA works and if the Celtics can't overcome it they don't deserve to win anyway.

I think you are misunderstanding. The best players have gotten calls FOR YEARS. And it isn't usually by a little. I'm sure Bill Russell got a lot of calls. Wilt fouled out of, what, ONE GAME his whole career? No one was beating Jordan or Magic or Isiah or Kobe in the playoffs in a straight up, perfectly called game. That;s how it always has been. I'm sorry its happening to the team you want to win, but every spring there are articles about horrible officiating and every spring nothing changes.

So maybe the part I am missing Abe is how you can allow yourself to become complacent with it, to accept it. Take a different sport with even more human judgment, baseball. Baseball umps do not influence a game against one team, home or not, in any way close to what you are describing. As a fan of competition, how do you excuse it? Or why do you support it, a sport with such clear biases?

 

[Abraham]

Then you have guys like Ferris and Abe say the Heat deserve all of that, they are playing at home and that's how the NBA works and if the Celtics can't overcome it they don't deserve to win anyway.

I think you are misunderstanding. The best players have gotten calls FOR YEARS. And it isn't usually by a little. I'm sure Bill Russell got a lot of calls. Wilt fouled out of, what, ONE GAME his whole career? No one was beating Jordan or Magic or Isiah or Kobe in the playoffs in a straight up, perfectly called game. That;s how it always has been. I'm sorry its happening to the team you want to win, but every spring there are articles about horrible officiating and every spring nothing changes.

So maybe the part I am missing Abe is how you can allow yourself to become complacent with it, to accept it. Take a different sport with even more human judgment, baseball. Baseball umps do not influence a game against one team, home or not, in any way close to what you are describing. As a fan of competition, how do you excuse it? Or why do you support it, a sport with such clear biases?

Umpires in baseball GREATLY influence the outcome of games. Strikezones can differ wildly, called third strikes that appear out of the zone... I don't excuse it, I accept it. There is holding on every play in football just as their is often uncalled pass interference. Roy Halladay's strike zone is bigger than JA Hap's. Lebron James gets more calls than Rajon Rondo. Would the NBA like to see Miami in the Finals? Sure. Are the Refs actively trying to make that happen? Doubtful.

 

[wadegarrett]

Hope this means Beal to the Cavs.

So glad the Cavs didn't drop past 4. Guarantees them Robinson, Kidd-Gilchrist or Beal.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Then you have guys like Ferris and Abe say the Heat deserve all of that, they are playing at home and that's how the NBA works and if the Celtics can't overcome it they don't deserve to win anyway.

I think you are misunderstanding. The best players have gotten calls FOR YEARS. And it isn't usually by a little. I'm sure Bill Russell got a lot of calls. Wilt fouled out of, what, ONE GAME his whole career? No one was beating Jordan or Magic or Isiah or Kobe in the playoffs in a straight up, perfectly called game. That;s how it always has been. I'm sorry its happening to the team you want to win, but every spring there are articles about horrible officiating and every spring nothing changes.

So maybe the part I am missing Abe is how you can allow yourself to become complacent with it, to accept it. Take a different sport with even more human judgment, baseball. Baseball umps do not influence a game against one team, home or not, in any way close to what you are describing. As a fan of competition, how do you excuse it? Or why do you support it, a sport with such clear biases?

You must not watch a lot of baseball. Here, people at least complain about it. In baseball it's accepted that the umps will give veteran pitchers or hitters the benefit of the doubt on close pitches. And when a guy "shows up" an ump like Lawrie did a couple weeks ago by running halfway down the line on a called strike two, it's just accepted that the next pitch will be a strike if it's close. Like it's OK that the game isn't called straight up, and the player should adjust.

Basketball's officiating problems are nowhere near as bad as baseball's. Fouls are subjective, so there's a lot of room for interpretation and judgment (unlike baseball, where almost everything is based on a real or imaginary line). With hi-def and slo-mo, fans are going to catch a lot more "blown calls," but they tend to even out over the course of a game, a series, a season. Anyone who thinks that only James, Wade and the Heat benefited from iffy foul calls last night wasn't watching the first half. I didn't even watch the whole thing and I saw at least two instances in which Rondo drew a nonexistent "foul" after penetration and a missed layup. I distinctly remember one in which is was clear that Miller didn't get him. It's the nature of the game.

 

[Popinski]

Van Gundy just pointed out that last play was LeBron's first post up of the game. I don't get that. A guy with that size and strength- why doesn't he post up more often?

He brings the ball up the floor a lot, that doesn't help. He rotates around the floor a lot and plays at least 4 and sometimes 5 positions. It's a big hole in his game, no doubt.

It just seems like it would be a continual mismatch if he did it more often.

I think his size/strength/quickness mismatch is a bigger deal on the perimeter. He should be posting up a little bit, but hes so effective around the perimeter that I wouldn't force him to change his game.

Pete Newell just turned over in his grave.

If nothing else (and I don't agree with kev at all), scoring in the post requires less energy and will put less wear and tear on him, allowing to play more minutes and extend his career.

Although LeBron has gone to the post more often this year than in years past, it still is not a common occurrence. The main issue for him is that his footwork is subpar. He basically just has his body and strength to rely on.

 

[Kiddnets]

Can someone please explain to me why Billy King would deal what turned out to be the Nets #6 overall pick for 2 months of Gerald Wallace? How does he still have a job? What the hell Proky.....guys get sent to Siberia for less!

I think everyone's been wanting to know that for a few months now.Wallace is a decent nba player, but of zero worth to a rebuilding franchise.

Forget the Wallace is a decent player - he is - problem is the Nets at the time of the deal were clearly a bottom 6 team and Wallace could opt out at the end of the year which he did. So what did the trade accomplish? Nets won a few more games with Wallace to go from a top 3 pick to a top 6 pick which they promptly hand over to Portland for a guy who opts out and they could have signed for no compensation! Was it a deal that Deron demanded? Possibly but unless he signed on the dotted line like Magic did to Dwight how could they mortgage their future on a whim like that? Watching Billy King defend the deal saying Wallace is better than the #6 pick makes me puke as he could have had both had he not made this deal....I dont understand how an executive can make a deal this bad and still have a job.....please someone explain to me how this is possible! Seriously - please help me see another side to this.....

 

[Short Corner]

Van Gundy just pointed out that last play was LeBron's first post up of the game. I don't get that. A guy with that size and strength- why doesn't he post up more often?

He brings the ball up the floor a lot, that doesn't help. He rotates around the floor a lot and plays at least 4 and sometimes 5 positions. It's a big hole in his game, no doubt.

It just seems like it would be a continual mismatch if he did it more often.

I think his size/strength/quickness mismatch is a bigger deal on the perimeter. He should be posting up a little bit, but hes so effective around the perimeter that I wouldn't force him to change his game.

Pete Newell just turned over in his grave.

If nothing else (and I don't agree with kev at all), scoring in the post requires less energy and will put less wear and tear on him, allowing to play more minutes and extend his career.

Although LeBron has gone to the post more often this year than in years past, it still is not a common occurrence. The main issue for him is that his footwork is subpar. He basically just has his body and strength to rely on.

The vast majority of 4's and 5's in the league have sub par footwork. The league has gone away from the true back to the basket post player. It's probably an easier skill to learn than a jump shot if he wants to put in the time. He would make a great triangle center piece.

 

[pollardsvision]

Hope this means Beal to the Cavs.

So glad the Cavs didn't drop past 4. Guarantees them Robinson, Kidd-Gilchrist or Beal.

ESPN's mock has them taking Barnes over Robinson, for what that's worth (not much, I know). I've ripped Barnes as much as anyone, but I think he's reached "he's been called over-rated for so long that he's now a little under-rated" status.He's certainly flawed, but so is everyone else, aside from Davis (though I still think Henson's going to be a steal for someone).

 

[Abraham]

Chad Forde made a point on Simmons podcast that Charlotte could be bad for a LOOOONG time without landing Davis. Next year's draft is not very deep and if the league gets a rule change calling for a 20 year old age limit, it could be 2015 before there is another big time draft.

 

[pollardsvision]

Then you have guys like Ferris and Abe say the Heat deserve all of that, they are playing at home and that's how the NBA works and if the Celtics can't overcome it they don't deserve to win anyway.

I think you are misunderstanding. The best players have gotten calls FOR YEARS. And it isn't usually by a little. I'm sure Bill Russell got a lot of calls. Wilt fouled out of, what, ONE GAME his whole career? No one was beating Jordan or Magic or Isiah or Kobe in the playoffs in a straight up, perfectly called game. That;s how it always has been. I'm sorry its happening to the team you want to win, but every spring there are articles about horrible officiating and every spring nothing changes.

So maybe the part I am missing Abe is how you can allow yourself to become complacent with it, to accept it. Take a different sport with even more human judgment, baseball. Baseball umps do not influence a game against one team, home or not, in any way close to what you are describing. As a fan of competition, how do you excuse it? Or why do you support it, a sport with such clear biases?

You must not watch a lot of baseball. Here, people at least complain about it. In baseball it's accepted that the umps will give veteran pitchers or hitters the benefit of the doubt on close pitches. And when a guy "shows up" an ump like Lawrie did a couple weeks ago by running halfway down the line on a called strike two, it's just accepted that the next pitch will be a strike if it's close. Like it's OK that the game isn't called straight up, and the player should adjust.

Basketball's officiating problems are nowhere near as bad as baseball's. Fouls are subjective, so there's a lot of room for interpretation and judgment (unlike baseball, where almost everything is based on a real or imaginary line). With hi-def and slo-mo, fans are going to catch a lot more "blown calls," but they tend to even out over the course of a game, a series, a season. Anyone who thinks that only James, Wade and the Heat benefited from iffy foul calls last night wasn't watching the first half. I didn't even watch the whole thing and I saw at least two instances in which Rondo drew a nonexistent "foul" after penetration and a missed layup. I distinctly remember one in which is was clear that Miller didn't get him. It's the nature of the game.

I still haven't figured why MLB still needs to employ umpires at all. The required equipment can't cost more than paying and flying umps all over the country for 6 months.

It'll never happen (the purists would go nuts), but I don't think umps are necessary anymore (nor ideal).

 

[wilked]

Then you have guys like Ferris and Abe say the Heat deserve all of that, they are playing at home and that's how the NBA works and if the Celtics can't overcome it they don't deserve to win anyway.

I think you are misunderstanding. The best players have gotten calls FOR YEARS. And it isn't usually by a little. I'm sure Bill Russell got a lot of calls. Wilt fouled out of, what, ONE GAME his whole career? No one was beating Jordan or Magic or Isiah or Kobe in the playoffs in a straight up, perfectly called game. That;s how it always has been. I'm sorry its happening to the team you want to win, but every spring there are articles about horrible officiating and every spring nothing changes.

So maybe the part I am missing Abe is how you can allow yourself to become complacent with it, to accept it. Take a different sport with even more human judgment, baseball. Baseball umps do not influence a game against one team, home or not, in any way close to what you are describing. As a fan of competition, how do you excuse it? Or why do you support it, a sport with such clear biases?

You must not watch a lot of baseball.

Actually, I watch a ton. The thing with baseball is that umps are judged on their work through the use of Pitch F/X. There are plenty of studies out there that show the home/away bias on called strikes balls is very slight in MLB. I think you are letting your own judgments get in the way of the analysis. Obviously you cannot use a similar system in basketball so it is trickier

 

[Captain Quinoa]

Hope this means Beal to the Cavs.

So glad the Cavs didn't drop past 4. Guarantees them Robinson, Kidd-Gilchrist or Beal.

ESPN's mock has them taking Barnes over Robinson, for what that's worth (not much, I know). I've ripped Barnes as much as anyone, but I think he's reached "he's been called over-rated for so long that he's now a little under-rated" status.He's certainly flawed, but so is everyone else, aside from Davis (though I still think Henson's going to be a steal for someone).

They must take a SG/SF at 4. So Beal, MKG, or Barnes. Robinson is nice but you can't take a PF at #4 two years in a row.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Hope this means Beal to the Cavs.

So glad the Cavs didn't drop past 4. Guarantees them Robinson, Kidd-Gilchrist or Beal.

ESPN's mock has them taking Barnes over Robinson, for what that's worth (not much, I know). I've ripped Barnes as much as anyone, but I think he's reached "he's been called over-rated for so long that he's now a little under-rated" status.He's certainly flawed, but so is everyone else, aside from Davis (though I still think Henson's going to be a steal for someone).

They must take a SG/SF at 4. So Beal, MKG, or Barnes. Robinson is nice but you can't take a PF at #4 two years in a row.

So you are saying that Matt Millen isn't the GM? Good to know.

 

[Abraham]

Gilcrest at 4 would be great for Cleveland. most mocks now have him behind drummond and barnes, which is odd to me.

 

[wadegarrett]

Gilcrest at 4 would be great for Cleveland. most mocks now have him behind drummond and barnes, which is odd to me.

Agree. Would love to get MKG. Some speculation around that Cavs could try to move up from 4.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Actually, I watch a ton. The thing with baseball is that umps are judged on their work through the use of Pitch F/X. There are plenty of studies out there that show the home/away bias on called strikes balls is very slight in MLB. I think you are letting your own judgments get in the way of the analysis. Obviously you cannot use a similar system in basketball so it is trickier

Not to get off topic, but that data is in the aggregate and balances out ... just like NBA calls do. There are plenty of instances of huge mistakes in high-leverage situations costing teams games, which is exactly what you are complaining about here w/r/t last night's game. The difference, as you say, is that in baseball the calls are 99% objective. Sure that means they can be studied, but it also means that they could choose to virtually eliminate the human element if they want, they just refuse to do so. The reason I say baseball is worse is because a pile of missed calls are just an unavoidable part of the game in basketball, because the game moves so fast and there's so much subjectivity in foul calls. It's a part of the game and always will be, and frankly has to be. A robot can't make a block/charge call. Baseball could fix its problems, it just refuses to do so. There's also the fact, as I said, bias for veterans and star players is at least something basketball fans and players complain about, so the refs are aware of that criticism. In baseball its just accepted as a part of the game. That's just dumb.

 

[Gatorman]

Dan,

You are a friend, and yu are looking at this game with green glasses on. I am a heat fan, so I am a little biased as well, but here goes:

1) Pierce jumped into wade, not straight up. That's a foul. Even if it was close (and it was), the aggressor (Wade) usually will get the call.

2) Garnett fouls on every play. he pushed lebron with the ball more than once and there was no call. I think you can start complaining about James' 9 fouls when you see Garnett foul out of a game. (ETS: The moving screen that was called in the philly series was surprising not just in that they called it then, but the fact that they called it at all considering garnett does this all the time with no call)

3) the Technicals in game 1 were a joke, but that is more Crawfords crew shtick than anything the heat did.

4) Rondo's drive likely should have been called, but the one ref seemed like he was screened by Chamers and the others were screened by the backs of wade and haslem.

I will say that the heat are so aggressive offensively and defensively that sometimes they get the benefit of a "defensive stop" when it was actually a foul. The bulls and celtics get these calls as well. The game moves so fast that refs miss things. Lebron gets fouled for about 34 of the 40 minutes he is out there. They will not call all of them (the same with wade) so I wish both lebron and wade would not stare down the refs after every drive down the court when they end up n the ground.

it is the nature of refereeing. Calls get missed and the crowd infuences the whistle at times.

 

[Abraham]

Is Meyers Leonard any good? Some mocks seem to have he and Rivers going to Houston. Houston is very old up front so I'd love to actually get two big guys

 

[pollardsvision]

Chad Forde made a point on Simmons podcast that Charlotte could be bad for a LOOOONG time without landing Davis. Next year's draft is not very deep and if the league gets a rule change calling for a 20 year old age limit, it could be 2015 before there is another big time draft.

Pretty disappointing, though getting that pick was never likely. I'm not convinced any of the options at #2 are going to make a huge impact. MKG seems like a pretty clear pick, and he's still an undersized SF that can't shoot. I'm starting to think the Bobcats need to try to make a massive trade out of the #2 spot. The hard part is finding a team dumb enough to make a bad trade with Jordan. The only decent options are Sacramento and Golden State.Portland would be fantastic, but I'm sure they are smart enough to know the player they can get at 6 could be just as good as they player they could get at 2.

 

[wilked]

Dan,You are a friend, and yu are looking at this game with green glasses on. I am a heat fan, so I am a little biased as well, but here goes:1) Pierce jumped into wade, not straight up. That's a foul. Even if it was close (and it was), the aggressor (Wade) usually will get the call.2) Garnett fouls on every play. he pushed lebron with the ball more than once and there was no call. I think you can start complaining about James' 9 fouls when you see Garnett foul out of a game. (ETS: The moving screen that was called in the philly series was surprising not just in that they called it then, but the fact that they called it at all considering garnett does this all the time with no call)3) the Technicals in game 1 were a joke, but that is more Crawfords crew shtick than anything the heat did.4) Rondo's drive likely should have been called, but the one ref seemed like he was screened by Chamers and the others were screened by the backs of wade and haslem.I will say that the heat are so aggressive offensively and defensively that sometimes they get the benefit of a "defensive stop" when it was actually a foul. The bulls and celtics get these calls as well. The game moves so fast that refs miss things. Lebron gets fouled for about 34 of the 40 minutes he is out there. They will not call all of them (the same with wade) so I wish both lebron and wade would not stare down the refs after every drive down the court when they end up n the ground.it is the nature of refereeing. Calls get missed and the crowd infuences the whistle at times.

I definitely am biased toward the Celts, which is why I am trying to steer the conversation more to the overall. Forget the individual series, no team should ever have a 26-5 gap in technicals in the NBA playoffs. Good point though Gator, I pretty much agree.

 

[the moops]

(ETS: The moving screen that was called in the philly series was surprising not just in that they called it then, but the fact that they called it at all considering garnett does this all the time with no call)

This is not a Garnett thing. It is an every player in the NBA thing. The semi-moving screen happens on nearly every single play of the game.

 

[Abraham]

Chad Forde made a point on Simmons podcast that Charlotte could be bad for a LOOOONG time without landing Davis. Next year's draft is not very deep and if the league gets a rule change calling for a 20 year old age limit, it could be 2015 before there is another big time draft.

Pretty disappointing, though getting that pick was never likely. I'm not convinced any of the options at #2 are going to make a huge impact. MKG seems like a pretty clear pick, and he's still an undersized SF that can't shoot. I'm starting to think the Bobcats need to try to make a massive trade out of the #2 spot. The hard part is finding a team dumb enough to make a bad trade with Jordan. The only decent options are Sacramento and Golden State.Portland would be fantastic, but I'm sure they are smart enough to know the player they can get at 6 could be just as good as they player they could get at 2.

I would love for Houston to trade to 2 and take drummond. Even if he busts completely, it would be worth it. Picking 14th every year leads to a team good enough to pick 14 every year. If he works out, we have our star. If not, we will be bad enough to pick higher than 14. You can have everyone but parsons.

 

[wilked]

Then you have guys like Ferris and Abe say the Heat deserve all of that, they are playing at home and that's how the NBA works and if the Celtics can't overcome it they don't deserve to win anyway.

I didn't say anything like that. I made fun of you for being a frontrunner whose only contribution to this thread has been #####ing about the officiating.

I have posted on the Celts losses, not the wins (my streak of watching the Celts win from the bar stands at 4 at the moment)...I think you have a different view of what a frontrunner is. I've pretty much said all that I wanted to on the officiating though, I will leave it alone now...

 

[Short Corner]

(ETS: The moving screen that was called in the philly series was surprising not just in that they called it then, but the fact that they called it at all considering garnett does this all the time with no call)

This is not a Garnett thing. It is an every player in the NBA thing. The semi-moving screen happens on nearly every single play of the game.

Just wait until the Olympics. FIBA is worse when it comes to moving ball screens.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Just to be clear ...

People are suggesting is that the NBA front office is somehow arranging for certain teams to advance in the playoffs for ratings purposes? So they:

(1) allowed the team from the #1 TV market in the country to lose in a five-game series in the first round;

(2) allowed the team from the #2 TV market in the country to get eliminated in six games (almost all of them close and easily turned by a few calls) in the second round in favor of the Western Conference being represented in the Finals by either the team from the #37 TV market or the one from the #45 TV market; and

(3) are now favoring the team from the #16 TV market (with a fan base so weak that needed instructions from the team in order to show up to games on time and cheer for the likes of LeBron James) over the team from the #7 TV market ... a team with a rabid fan base that they also "allowed" to win 17 previous titles?

That's really what people are going with?

 

[GroveDiesel]

What kills me is that defenders have no choice but to let Wade and Lebron barrel into the paint and lay it in or dunk it. How many charges have those guys been called for?

And yet, on the other end, the Heat routinely get charge calls by sliding under defenders that are in the air.

If their opponents got the same charge calls on the other end, the Heat wouldn't have an offense.

The NBA's long standing bias in favor of its "stars" has finally made it unwatchable for me.

I'll be checking the results hoping the Spurs are given a chance to play straight up against the Heat, but I won't reward the NBA with my viewership any longer. The game is fundamentally broken.

 

[pollardsvision]

Chad Forde made a point on Simmons podcast that Charlotte could be bad for a LOOOONG time without landing Davis. Next year's draft is not very deep and if the league gets a rule change calling for a 20 year old age limit, it could be 2015 before there is another big time draft.

Pretty disappointing, though getting that pick was never likely. I'm not convinced any of the options at #2 are going to make a huge impact. MKG seems like a pretty clear pick, and he's still an undersized SF that can't shoot. I'm starting to think the Bobcats need to try to make a massive trade out of the #2 spot. The hard part is finding a team dumb enough to make a bad trade with Jordan. The only decent options are Sacramento and Golden State.Portland would be fantastic, but I'm sure they are smart enough to know the player they can get at 6 could be just as good as they player they could get at 2.

I would love for Houston to trade to 2 and take drummond. Even if he busts completely, it would be worth it. Picking 14th every year leads to a team good enough to pick 14 every year. If he works out, we have our star. If not, we will be bad enough to pick higher than 14. You can have everyone but parsons.

I thought about Houston, but Houston is scary for 2 reasons:1-They'd fleece Jordan somehow.2-As you mention, Houston is never bad enough to get a great draft pick. There'd have to be a potential high #1 pick coming back to trade this away.

 

[the moops]

All this ref talk is nauseating. Jesus

 

[Cliff Clavin]

All this ref talk is nauseating. Jesus

Its as if these people have never watched an NBA game before. To all the whiners: NBA reffing is always terrible. HTH.

 

[Ghost Rider]

It has never been like this in the NBA.

It's been like this ever since the 90s Bulls.

No, since the 80s and the Lakers. Remember the phantom foul on Laimbeer at the end of Game 6 of the 1988 Finals? I sure do. But like has been said, NBA officiating has sucked for as long as I can remember. Teams with the biggest stars are almost always gonna get the calls; it's just the way it is. Boston might be a bigger TV market than Miami, but Miami has LeBron James, the biggest and most-talked about NAME in the sport right now, and with a ratings killer like the Spurs headed for the Finals, the NBA needs James in the Finals to help with ratings.

 

[SoCalBroncoFan]

Just to be clear ...

People are suggesting is that the NBA front office is somehow arranging for certain teams to advance in the playoffs for ratings purposes? So they:

(1) allowed the team from the #1 TV market in the country to lose in a five-game series in the first round;

(2) allowed the team from the #2 TV market in the country to get eliminated in six games (almost all of them close and easily turned by a few calls) in the second round in favor of the Western Conference being represented in the Finals by either the team from the #37 TV market or the one from the #45 TV market; and

(3) are now favoring the team from the #16 TV market (with a fan base so weak that needed instructions from the team in order to show up to games on time and cheer for the likes of LeBron James) over the team from the #7 TV market ... a team with a rabid fan base that they also "allowed" to win 17 previous titles?

That's really what people are going with?

I agree that the NBA is not picking who wins and loses and influencing the results. But to simply put the size of market out there is unrealistic. If the Heat make the Finals it wont just be Miami fans watching. Lebron has fans in every city. The same way that while Oklahoma is a much smaller market than LA, Durant, Harden and Westbrook have fans all over the country, not just in OKC.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Just to be clear ...

People are suggesting is that the NBA front office is somehow arranging for certain teams to advance in the playoffs for ratings purposes? So they:

(1) allowed the team from the #1 TV market in the country to lose in a five-game series in the first round;

(2) allowed the team from the #2 TV market in the country to get eliminated in six games (almost all of them close and easily turned by a few calls) in the second round in favor of the Western Conference being represented in the Finals by either the team from the #37 TV market or the one from the #45 TV market; and

(3) are now favoring the team from the #16 TV market (with a fan base so weak that needed instructions from the team in order to show up to games on time and cheer for the likes of LeBron James) over the team from the #7 TV market ... a team with a rabid fan base that they also "allowed" to win 17 previous titles?

That's really what people are going with?

I agree that the NBA is not picking who wins and loses and influencing the results. But to simply put the size of market out there is unrealistic. If the Heat make the Finals it wont just be Miami fans watching. Lebron has fans in every city. The same way that while Oklahoma is a much smaller market than LA, Durant, Harden and Westbrook have fans all over the country, not just in OKC.

Sure, but there's no question that from a ratings standpoint the Lakers would be the league's first "pick" if it had one. So you'd think that watching them lose in the Western Conference in six games, many of the close, would be enough evidence that there's no conspiracy. And even though LeBron draws a lot of eyeballs, I really don't think he draws as much as the Celtics, who have a huge fanbase of frontrunning Bostonians plus frontrunning NBA fans from the last 30 years, and also have some stars of their own.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

It has never been like this in the NBA.

It's been like this ever since the 90s Bulls.

No, since the 80s and the Lakers. Remember the phantom foul on Laimbeer at the end of Game 6 of the 1988 Finals? I sure do. But like has been said, NBA officiating has sucked for as long as I can remember. Teams with the biggest stars are almost always gonna get the calls; it's just the way it is. Boston might be a bigger TV market than Miami, but Miami has LeBron James, the biggest and most-talked about NAME in the sport right now, and with a ratings killer like the Spurs headed for the Finals, the NBA needs James in the Finals to help with ratings.

I remember that like it was yesterday. The league didnt want the pistons to win that one for sure.I love the piece on yahoo today about the lotto being fixed for the Hornets and their new owner.This league is a freakin joke, always has been.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Same arguments every single year.

All conspiracy theories can be dispelled with two words: "The Spurs"

 

[HellToupee]

the bleepin' fixx is in. GD NBA

 

[HellToupee]

Same arguments every single year. All conspiracy theories can be dispelled with two words: "The Spurs"

it was rigged for them to get Duncan

 

[Ghost Rider]

Same arguments every single year. All conspiracy theories can be dispelled with two words: "The Spurs"

No, when a team is so good that they keep winning, there is nothing anyone can do about it (like Miami dispatching the Knicks in 5 in the 1st round), but in close games, a call here and a call there can influence the outcome of a game (like the Sacramento/LAL debacle in '02). For all you need to know about the Spurs and the league, go back to Game 4 of 2008 against the Lakers. Down 2, the Spurs attempt a 3 for the win, a Laker clearly fouls the Spur...and no call. Now, I do NOT think that Stern ever tells the refs to call games certain ways, but they work for him, and they know what will make him happy, and that is more games, ratings and money. The refs weren't about to get in the way of the Celtics/Lakers NBA Final back in '08, hence the no call on that 3 at the end. A Spurs win would have gotten them back in the series and possibly ruined the magical Boston/LA Final.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Same arguments every single year.

All conspiracy theories can be dispelled with two words: "The Spurs"

No, when a team is so good that they keep winning, there is nothing anyone can do about it (like Miami dispatching the Knicks in 5 in the 1st round), but in close games, a call here and a call there can influence the outcome of a game (like the Sacramento/LAL debacle in '02). For all you need to know about the Spurs and the league, go back to Game 4 of 2008 against the Lakers. Down 2, the Spurs attempt a 3 for the win, a Laker clearly fouls the Spur...and no call. Now, I do NOT think that Stern ever tells the refs to call games certain ways, but they work for him, and they know what will make him happy, and that is more games, ratings and money. The refs weren't about to get in the way of the Celtics/Lakers NBA Final back in '08, hence the no call on that 3 at the end. A Spurs win would have gotten them back in the series and possibly ruined the magical Boston/LA Final.

I know, right? And how about the way they blatantly handed the Lakers those close games against another small market team, the Thunder, in 2012? That was totally unfair. No way the refs would help the Lakers get eliminated in five games in the conference semifinals in a bunch of close games that could easily turn on a call or two. They're not gonna get in the way of a LeBron/Kobe or Lakers/Celtics Finals, right?This entire 650 page thread, summarized

 

[wilked]

One more... People say NBA refs are always terrible - ok. But there are degrees of terrible (note - this is someone else's analysis)

To put it in perspective lets compare last night's game to Lakers/Kings Game6 in 2002 which pretty much everyone agrees is one of the worst officiating jobs ever.

Lakers/Kings Game6:

Lakers took 59 2pt FG attempts, got 40 FT attempts, or 0.67 FT attempts per 2pt FG attempt

Kings took 73 2pt FG attempts, got 25 FT attempts, or 0.34 FT attempts per 2pt FG attempt

Last night:

Celts took 65 2pt FG attempts, got 29 FT attempts, or 0.44 FT attempts per 2pt FG attempt

Heat took 57 2pt FG attempts, got 47 FT attempts, or 0.82 FT attempts per 2pg FG attempt

All of the numbers, no matter how you slice them, add up to the same story