PhillipPhoto
Footballguy
No security on site that day and the back door unlocked is about as far away from "fortress" as you can get. They cited two inconclusive studies. Where do you find these horrible articles.
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Shooting at Texas school - Kids among victims (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter eoMMan
- Start date
dkp993
Footballguy
Well apparently for every trained good guy with a gun there are 19 more trained good guys with guns who don’t stop anything. Or in the case of Buffalo a trained good guy with a gun who gets killed. That ratio doesn’t exactly inspire confidence.
Meanwhile again we chose to ignore (and in many cases defend the right) that a mentally ill 18 yr old bought these weapons and thousands of rounds easier then getting a drivers license. Solutions for that? Harden our school. Wtf has this world come too.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
How about if we have the threshold of somebody with the training of the officer who downed the shooter and with the attitude on gun safety that icon has displayed in thread as our good guys with guns. I would have 0 issues with us having all the good guys with guns we could find walking around and guarding schools.
For me the idea of people who are far less trained and more likely to be involved in an incident like the two road ragers shooting each other than successfully stopping a mass shooter just becomes nonsensical.
For me the idea of people who are far less trained and more likely to be involved in an incident like the two road ragers shooting each other than successfully stopping a mass shooter just becomes nonsensical.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
I don't have a problem making schools more secure, at least for a short-term stop-gap. But you're absolutely right that we can't ignore how easily the mentally ill can obtain dozens of guns and thousands of rounds of ammo without raising red flags. That's the issue.
Make some short term changes but address the root cause of the issue. Access to guns and our obsession with them.
We can't continue to say nothing can be done.
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Blah blah blah. Our kids shouldn't have to live in a country where the schools are the equivalent of Fort Knox. We have a gun epidemic problem. We need to fix that --
And this incident shows there will ALWAYS be human error, inadequate protection or reluctant, not properly trained law enforcement. You will just be trotting out the excuses each time like you are here.
PhillipPhoto
Footballguy
. I shouldnt have to go through the equivalent of airport security to go to the ballpark either but here we are. Security works and if we are willing to protect baseball patrons why arent we willing to protect our kids? Because clicking our hills 3 times hoping guns disappear isnt going to work anytime soon. 
massraider
Footballguy
Bingo.
Yep, let's burden everyone's local community with financial burden to "harden" the 100,000 schools in this country. (Who hands out the buzzwords? The NRA?). Then the next jerkoff unloads at the homecoming football game.
Welp, we better beef up security at these games, maybe we can get some hand to hand combat training for these game officials. I see no reason these officials cannot call a game, and also grapple with a lunatic in body armor.
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
These guys look for any excuse, any “solution” other than reasonable gun restrictions. It’s beyond pathetic at this point.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
We have people who shoot up concerts, movie theaters, churches, food stores...we need to solve the problem not bury it behind walls.
PhillipPhoto
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
FairWarning
Footballguy
timschochet
Footballguy
dkp993
Footballguy
dkp993
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Because a guy who saved up 4 grand working at Wendy's is going to NOT engage in an act of terrorism if there's a heavy door and rent-a-cop at the school.
PhillipPhoto
Footballguy
Ooof. Mass shootings and children's deaths take a back seat to "war". Just when I thought I've read the worst take on the internet you come up with something better. Not to mention the ability to multitask when printing money. Covid rank above or below war?
PhillipPhoto
Footballguy
PhillipPhoto
Footballguy
Sounds silly until you realize our ballparks are already hardened. You want an immediate solution or play the politics of guns for decades while it keeps happening? You are going to loose big seats in the house and Senate to the NRA in November. Face the facts and look for viable solutions. Or dont.
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dkp993
Footballguy
Does it have to be either or? Thought we were the greatest country in history.
And yes hardening supermarket seems silly.
the moops
Footballguy
You should make sure to read your postings out loud. May change your mind on this.
the moops
Footballguy
Moonlight
Footballguy
dkp993
Footballguy
Well obviously. Little league games too, soccer fields, Tuesday night bowling leagues, birthday parties, restaurants……. But let’s never talk about the guns themselves though, that’s not practical.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Also each person's house should be hardened/bulletproofed like in that Purge movie. Outstanding example of how to protect yourself from those bad people who want to kill you.
the moops
Footballguy
From a training session these officers had 2 months ago.
https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1529965774701330432?t=nV9YjwTJEJwnKdkEG91Igw&s=19
The “first priority is to move in and confront the attacker.”
“A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field."
https://twitter.com/ByMikeBaker/status/1529965774701330432?t=nV9YjwTJEJwnKdkEG91Igw&s=19
The “first priority is to move in and confront the attacker.”
“A first responder unwilling to place the lives of the innocent above their own safety should consider another career field."
Moonlight
Footballguy
I'm of the belief that at least 80% of the population wants further restrictions on gun availability. Age and training requirements, lethality of weapon (as expressed by rate of fire and magazine size), mental health exclusions, previous unlawful use of a firearm exclusions are supported by most people. The NRA has used their money to buy off politicians who are afraid to cross them because the NRA voices are louder.
Maybe that will change. Mothers against Drunk Driving (MADD) was formed in 1980 to decrease the number of deaths and injuries caused by drunk drivers. It backed policy initiatives to increase the drinking age to 21, decrease alcohol limits permitted while operating a vehicle and increasing public education regarding alcohol consumption and its effects on driving. These efforts have led to decreasing fatalities.
Someday a similar national grass roots leader will arise for reasonable gun restrictions but they will have to survive the far right's claims to discredit them.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
The average age of mass shooters is 33. Maybe raise gun ownership requirement to the same age as qualifying for POTUS?Leroy Hoard said:
I'll do this once, because it's probably both obnoxious and a little bit pretentious. But I feel like I have to say it, so to all my Conservative brothers - please consider this...
This whole tragedy perfectly illustrates the fallacy that we can somehow "fortify" schools. We can't. School Resource Officers are human, and as we have seen they are often ineffective. Locked doors don't work. They get propped open, as happened here. If nothing else, the shooter can simply blast his way through it.
When someone wants to kill, and they have an arsenal of weapons and ammunition at their disposal, there is no stopping them. We have seen it time and time again. This is where it gets pretentious...
LOOK AT THIS PICTURE FROM NEWTOWN, AND ZOOM IN ON THEIR FACES
LOOK AT THIS ONE FROM TEXAS. AND THIS ONE.
If you look at these pictures, you have to ask yourself - what the hell are we doing? We are the only country in the world where this happens. And for what? What benefit could possibly outweigh this cost - the oft chance that tyranny will overtake the USA and gun owners will reverse the tide? What are the odds of this happening? Really. I get the argument, and I know the odds are not zero, but no matter what scenario is considered, the cost is too much. What is the value of an innocent child being slaughtered?
Please - reconsider your position on common sense gun reform. Be honest - assault weapons aren't needed for anything other than killing lots of people quickly I get that these weapons are a check on governmental tyranny. I truly believe this was the intent of the 2nd Amendment, and I have always supported it. But the costs... Is it worth it? I ask that you you think this through - honestly. I trust your judgment.
At least give in on background checks. Who in their right mind could possibly object to this? Are you really ok with criminals having guns? And how about red flag laws? Same thing - why the hell not? It won't affect you. Let's at least get guns out of the hands of people who WE KNOW aren't responsible enough to own them. That benefits all of us. That's all I ask for. I'm not asking for a complete repeal of 2A. I am simply asking for reasonable regulation. Look at the pictures I linked to above. Because it WILL happen again. I can guarantee it.
I know why Conservatives don't trust Liberals on this issue. They can't be trusted, and we need to guard against it. But do it anyway, because it is the right thing to do. The status quo just isn't acceptable anymore, and I believe you know this. You guys are smart, and you can't deny the data. If nothing else, take this off the table as a campaign issue for Democrats in 2022.
This whole tragedy perfectly illustrates the fallacy that we can somehow "fortify" schools. We can't. School Resource Officers are human, and as we have seen they are often ineffective. Locked doors don't work. They get propped open, as happened here. If nothing else, the shooter can simply blast his way through it.
When someone wants to kill, and they have an arsenal of weapons and ammunition at their disposal, there is no stopping them. We have seen it time and time again. This is where it gets pretentious...
LOOK AT THIS PICTURE FROM NEWTOWN, AND ZOOM IN ON THEIR FACES
LOOK AT THIS ONE FROM TEXAS. AND THIS ONE.
If you look at these pictures, you have to ask yourself - what the hell are we doing? We are the only country in the world where this happens. And for what? What benefit could possibly outweigh this cost - the oft chance that tyranny will overtake the USA and gun owners will reverse the tide? What are the odds of this happening? Really. I get the argument, and I know the odds are not zero, but no matter what scenario is considered, the cost is too much. What is the value of an innocent child being slaughtered?
Please - reconsider your position on common sense gun reform. Be honest - assault weapons aren't needed for anything other than killing lots of people quickly I get that these weapons are a check on governmental tyranny. I truly believe this was the intent of the 2nd Amendment, and I have always supported it. But the costs... Is it worth it? I ask that you you think this through - honestly. I trust your judgment.
At least give in on background checks. Who in their right mind could possibly object to this? Are you really ok with criminals having guns? And how about red flag laws? Same thing - why the hell not? It won't affect you. Let's at least get guns out of the hands of people who WE KNOW aren't responsible enough to own them. That benefits all of us. That's all I ask for. I'm not asking for a complete repeal of 2A. I am simply asking for reasonable regulation. Look at the pictures I linked to above. Because it WILL happen again. I can guarantee it.
I know why Conservatives don't trust Liberals on this issue. They can't be trusted, and we need to guard against it. But do it anyway, because it is the right thing to do. The status quo just isn't acceptable anymore, and I believe you know this. You guys are smart, and you can't deny the data. If nothing else, take this off the table as a campaign issue for Democrats in 2022.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
If the honus is on the teachers to protect the community, maybe we should give the teachers what the cops are making. And the same overtime scams.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
I think it is not a stand alone issue for many. The fact that 19 trained law enforcement officers pissed themselves over a half wit with a couple AR-15s needs to be addressed.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
That’s impressive. But how can we screen prospective LEOs to ensure they have the fortitude to act so heroically and selflessly?
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
My paraphrasing wont do it justice, but, I will try. Parentheses and all cap emphasis kare mine.
1- The focus should be on the mental illness problems we have in this country. Every single one of these shooters fits a very similar profile and the warning signs are there ahead of time.
2- There is no substitute for a strong family unit with a mother and father. None.
3- (knowing we dont have 100% control of #1 and #2, #3 becomes the most important implementation wise) Harden the Schools. Fully attainable. A single entrance with metal detectors and no one gets in until they are vetted and pass screening. (No different than going to a ballgame, you wont get into a pro stadium with a gun, nor a courthouse). We give 58 million to protect all of Ukraine, we can do the same with our own children. Armed and TRAINED security on staff at every school. Let teachers be TRAINED and conceal carry. Take down the stupid "gun free zone" advertisement signs for mass shootings.
4- FUND police and first responders.
- The GOP gutted mental health care under the Reagan Administration
- ok?
- will be impossible in many schools. as many have stated ITT, a lot of schools have outdoor access for every classroom. The $58M we gave to UA didn't fo to UA, it went to Raytheon, Lockheed, Boeing, etc UA is just the conduit. I agree with you though on the $58M. If you are going to train teachers to be protectors, then pay hem as such, and take it from LE funding. We should actually be doing that anyway (paying them).
- LE is already overfunded
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Places with easy access to a sh!t-ton of weapons probably need LEOs with more high tech stuff. But more importantly, they need officers who respond quickly and courageously.
One aspect I haven’t seen talked about - has there been any indication he had any training or even practice with this gun? For the sake of argument, let’s say he had little or no training. What is the reason for keeping these guns readily available? Guns that can kill many quickly and easily with little experience. It’s not about skill, marksmanship or anything like that. Why do responsible, skilled gun owners have no willingness get these guns off the market?
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Interesting. The “hardening” nonsense also probably promotes anxiety/paranoia in kids, leading to fearful adults who buy more firearms. Just another log on the psychiatric fire we’ve created for our children.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Or, we could move the classrooms to prisons - they’re already “hardened” and guarded!
Max Power
Footballguy
Shouldn't, but there is a policy in place that was violated and let a killer access the building.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
An entire police force was afraid of one gun and let 19 kids die. But the issue is doors.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
FairWarning
Footballguy
We’ve had two mass shootings where there have been a lot of clues on social media about how unstable these killers are. The party of social workers should have sniffed this out a mile away.
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