I guess now is the time to buy low on Justin Herbert.
I don't think he's a QB2, so if I can get him at QB2 cost, sure.I guess now is the time to buy low on Justin Herbert.
Like QB2 low?
Five years is a long wait. Also betting against Harbaugh is a bad bet.Going after him heavily in multi-year superflex rebuilds. Ride out the Harbaugh/Roman ground-and-pound years while keeping the tank on, and then have a top 3 QB for the subsequent several years drop out of the sky with the potential Air Coryell overcorrection from the next coach.
The dude had like 80 TDS in his first 2 years. Plenty of potential there, just needs proper coaching and scheme.I don't think Harbaugh took this job with plans of significantly de-emphasizing Herbert's role in the offense. I think he's a better QB than Colin Kaepernick or Alex Smith, and those guys were pretty productive in Harbaugh's NFL offense.
And a better offensive line. Everybody's focusing on the lack of receivers. He can make it pay with JAGs at WR and TE if he gets time to throw. The Chargers' O Line has been pretty bad for too much of his time here, and too much of the time period since like 2012. If they get enough picks, or coach up Zion Johnson, and Salyer (whom the team has invested draft capital in recently) to turn that around this year, he'll be good. They don't have even a reclamation project for C on the roster at this point - they'll have to address that in the draft at least.The dude had like 80 TDS in his first 2 years. Plenty of potential there, just needs proper coaching and scheme.I don't think Harbaugh took this job with plans of significantly de-emphasizing Herbert's role in the offense. I think he's a better QB than Colin Kaepernick or Alex Smith, and those guys were pretty productive in Harbaugh's NFL offense.
Chargers head coach Jim Harbaugh said he “can’t wait” to “build up” the team’s offensive line.
“April 2, let’s get it started,” Harbaugh added in an interview during the NFL coaches meetings. The new LA head coach talked up the importance of a solid offensive line in creating a consistent, productive offense. It’s a surprise to no one since Harbaugh has emphasized tough-nosed football everywhere he’s coached. The 2023 Chargers were graded by PFF as the league’s worst run blocking offensive line; they were 13th in pass blocking. It would be easy to interpret Harbaugh’s comments as a giveaway that the Chargers will take Notre Dame OL Joe Alt with the fifth pick in the 2023 draft, forgoing offensive firepower sorely needed after parting ways with Keenan Allen and Mike Williams. Just Herbert last season was pressured on 36 percent of his drop backs, which ranked 21st out of 43 qualifying QBs. Herbert completed 49 percent of his throws for five touchdowns and six interceptions when pressured in 2023.
Well he was QB11 last year and QB15 the year prior without a run-first/play D head coach/OC combo.I don't think he's a QB2, so if I can get him at QB2 cost, sure.
Yes.Did he just get traded to the Bears for #1?
Wow!!
Tex
Cool, I get it - and if that's where he's being valued, I'm buying. I tend to look at talent first, situation second - sometimes that turns out to be a mistake but erring in that direction usually works out for me.Well he was QB11 last year and QB15 the year prior without a run-first/play D head coach/OC combo.I don't think he's a QB2, so if I can get him at QB2 cost, sure.
Well he was QB11 last year and QB15 the year prior without a run-first/play D head coach/OC combo.I don't think he's a QB2, so if I can get him at QB2 cost, sure.
Herbert to JJ would be out of this world. I guess if Harbaugh likes McCarthy that much and wants to start on a rookie contract it makes sense with the run first mentality. Would allow the Chargers to load up on picks and give them a lot of flexibility with building it the way the regime wants to. For MIN it would give them a great QB to match O’Connell’s passing attack. It actually makes a lot of sense for both squads.I'm seeing a couple mocks/rumors where he's shipped to Minnesota for multiple firsts and the Chargers take JJ McCarthy at 5.
ETA: Sounds nutso to me for the Chargers to do that, but it'd be great for Herbert's future to be throwing behind that line to those receivers.
I'm seeing a couple mocks/rumors where he's shipped to Minnesota for multiple firsts and the Chargers take JJ McCarthy at 5.
ETA: Sounds nutso to me for the Chargers to do that, but it'd be great for Herbert's future to be throwing behind that line to those receivers.
Herbert to JJ would be out of this world. I guess if Harbaugh likes McCarthy that much and wants to start on a rookie contract it makes sense with the run first mentality. Would allow the Chargers to load up on picks and give them a lot of flexibility with building it the way the regime wants to. For MIN it would give them a great QB to match O’Connell’s passing attack. It actually makes a lot of sense for both squads.I'm seeing a couple mocks/rumors where he's shipped to Minnesota for multiple firsts and the Chargers take JJ McCarthy at 5.
ETA: Sounds nutso to me for the Chargers to do that, but it'd be great for Herbert's future to be throwing behind that line to those receivers.
Agree to disagree. Again I am just basing my statement off what Harbaugh said about McCarthy being the number one pick. Of course that was probably coach speak, but if they are going to run 60% of the time do you really need Herbert? Honestly most of my statement comes from my selfish dynasty team desires (Herbert & JJ).Herbert to JJ would be out of this world. I guess if Harbaugh likes McCarthy that much and wants to start on a rookie contract it makes sense with the run first mentality. Would allow the Chargers to load up on picks and give them a lot of flexibility with building it the way the regime wants to. For MIN it would give them a great QB to match O’Connell’s passing attack. It actually makes a lot of sense for both squads.I'm seeing a couple mocks/rumors where he's shipped to Minnesota for multiple firsts and the Chargers take JJ McCarthy at 5.
ETA: Sounds nutso to me for the Chargers to do that, but it'd be great for Herbert's future to be throwing behind that line to those receivers.
No, it doesn't make any sense at all for the Chargers. It would hamstring their ability to field a competitive roster until 2026. That would be counter to everything everyone including ownership, GM Hortiz, and HC Harbaugh have said.
Agree to disagree. Again I am just basing my statement off what Harbaugh said about McCarthy being the number one pick. Of course that was probably coach speak, but if they are going to run 60% of the time do you really need Herbert? Honestly most of my statement comes from my selfish dynasty team desires (Herbert & JJ).Herbert to JJ would be out of this world. I guess if Harbaugh likes McCarthy that much and wants to start on a rookie contract it makes sense with the run first mentality. Would allow the Chargers to load up on picks and give them a lot of flexibility with building it the way the regime wants to. For MIN it would give them a great QB to match O’Connell’s passing attack. It actually makes a lot of sense for both squads.I'm seeing a couple mocks/rumors where he's shipped to Minnesota for multiple firsts and the Chargers take JJ McCarthy at 5.
ETA: Sounds nutso to me for the Chargers to do that, but it'd be great for Herbert's future to be throwing behind that line to those receivers.
No, it doesn't make any sense at all for the Chargers. It would hamstring their ability to field a competitive roster until 2026. That would be counter to everything everyone including ownership, GM Hortiz, and HC Harbaugh have said.
Like I said, I understand it is mostly coach speak. Now knowing the cap implications it certainly does not make any sense for the Chargers. If that was not an issue it certainly would be more plausible.Agree to disagree. Again I am just basing my statement off what Harbaugh said about McCarthy being the number one pick. Of course that was probably coach speak, but if they are going to run 60% of the time do you really need Herbert? Honestly most of my statement comes from my selfish dynasty team desires (Herbert & JJ).Herbert to JJ would be out of this world. I guess if Harbaugh likes McCarthy that much and wants to start on a rookie contract it makes sense with the run first mentality. Would allow the Chargers to load up on picks and give them a lot of flexibility with building it the way the regime wants to. For MIN it would give them a great QB to match O’Connell’s passing attack. It actually makes a lot of sense for both squads.I'm seeing a couple mocks/rumors where he's shipped to Minnesota for multiple firsts and the Chargers take JJ McCarthy at 5.
ETA: Sounds nutso to me for the Chargers to do that, but it'd be great for Herbert's future to be throwing behind that line to those receivers.
No, it doesn't make any sense at all for the Chargers. It would hamstring their ability to field a competitive roster until 2026. That would be counter to everything everyone including ownership, GM Hortiz, and HC Harbaugh have said.
Of course Harbaugh said that.
Those positives are true and of interest to Harbaugh without him having any intent or interest in drafting McCarthy. Yes, it is valuable to have Herbert even in a balanced offense (which won't be 60% rushing)... having Herbert enables them to maximize efficiency when they choose to pass.
- He wants to help his former player McCarthy get drafted as high as possible.
- He wants some other team to draft McCarthy at #4 after the first 3 draft picks are used on QBs Williams, Maye, and Daniels. That would give the Chargers the top non-QB pick. He has been quoted on how valuable that is.
You have to remember, we are officially in "lying season" now. A lot of what is said nowadays is said for effect.
And I repeat, trading Herbert is not affordable from a cap perspective. It's not happening.
Yeah lunacy.....and most likely h******t.I'm seeing a couple mocks/rumors where he's shipped to Minnesota for multiple firsts and the Chargers take JJ McCarthy at 5.
ETA: Sounds nutso to me for the Chargers to do that, but it'd be great for Herbert's future to be throwing behind that line to those receivers.
I don't think McCarthy is even gonna make it long term in the NFLHerbert to JJ would be out of this world. I guess if Harbaugh likes McCarthy that much and wants to start on a rookie contract it makes sense with the run first mentality. Would allow the Chargers to load up on picks and give them a lot of flexibility with building it the way the regime wants to. For MIN it would give them a great QB to match O’Connell’s passing attack. It actually makes a lot of sense for both squads.I'm seeing a couple mocks/rumors where he's shipped to Minnesota for multiple firsts and the Chargers take JJ McCarthy at 5.
ETA: Sounds nutso to me for the Chargers to do that, but it'd be great for Herbert's future to be throwing behind that line to those receivers.
No, it doesn't make any sense at all for the Chargers. It would hamstring their ability to field a competitive roster until 2026. That would be counter to everything everyone including ownership, GM Hortiz, and HC Harbaugh have said.
I disagree, when you have a Harbaugh/Roman led offense it does cause for pause. After learning the cap ramifications it does equal lunacy.Yeah lunacy.....and most likely h******t.I'm seeing a couple mocks/rumors where he's shipped to Minnesota for multiple firsts and the Chargers take JJ McCarthy at 5.
ETA: Sounds nutso to me for the Chargers to do that, but it'd be great for Herbert's future to be throwing behind that line to those receivers.
This is a logical debate and I agree. However if Harbaugh was in love with him as much as he says he is and wants a run-first offense it seems like a waste of Herbert’s potential imo. Obviously it makes no financial sense.I don't think McCarthy is even gonna make it long term in the NFLHerbert to JJ would be out of this world. I guess if Harbaugh likes McCarthy that much and wants to start on a rookie contract it makes sense with the run first mentality. Would allow the Chargers to load up on picks and give them a lot of flexibility with building it the way the regime wants to. For MIN it would give them a great QB to match O’Connell’s passing attack. It actually makes a lot of sense for both squads.I'm seeing a couple mocks/rumors where he's shipped to Minnesota for multiple firsts and the Chargers take JJ McCarthy at 5.
ETA: Sounds nutso to me for the Chargers to do that, but it'd be great for Herbert's future to be throwing behind that line to those receivers.
No, it doesn't make any sense at all for the Chargers. It would hamstring their ability to field a competitive roster until 2026. That would be counter to everything everyone including ownership, GM Hortiz, and HC Harbaugh have said.
As to point #1, Harbaugh did say he thought Aidan Hutchinson could be a future NFL HOFer when he came out, and thought it was crazy that he wasn't the #1 pick.I believe three things to be true:
1. Harbaughs comments about how high he is on McCarthy are 100% sincere. Michigan had 18 players at the combine. Is he pumping anyone else up like that? Can anyone cite history of him pumping up one of his players ever like that? And to those who think he said it to get teams to increase the value I'd remind those people he was saying these things well before he took the Chargers job.
2. If not for item #3 I believe if he got McCarthy at 5 or by moving up a little and a haul for Herbert he'd be in better position to build the team he wants to build.
3. Herbert is virtually impossible to trade due to the dead cap hits.
As to point #1, Harbaugh did say he thought Aidan Hutchinson could be a future NFL HOFer when he came out, and thought it was crazy that he wasn't the #1 pick.I believe three things to be true:
1. Harbaughs comments about how high he is on McCarthy are 100% sincere. Michigan had 18 players at the combine. Is he pumping anyone else up like that? Can anyone cite history of him pumping up one of his players ever like that? And to those who think he said it to get teams to increase the value I'd remind those people he was saying these things well before he took the Chargers job.
2. If not for item #3 I believe if he got McCarthy at 5 or by moving up a little and a haul for Herbert he'd be in better position to build the team he wants to build.
3. Herbert is virtually impossible to trade due to the dead cap hits.
I do think Harbaugh took the Chargers job, mainly because of Herbert's presence. If he truly preferred McCarthy to him, he could have taken the Washington job.
Point 3 is the main thing though. It doesn't matter what anyone thinks. Herbert is the 4th highest guaranteed money guy in the NFL. The dead cap hit, would be 110 million. 43% of the team salary.
You can:Pumping up McCarthy seems like an obvious attempt to make the #5 pick more valuable
I don't see some kind of dichotomy. I'm sure he believes he's a great kid and a great prospect, while also hoping hyping him up now works out in Chargers' favor. What I don't see is that Harbaugh hyping up McCarthy means they're trading Herbert.You can:Pumping up McCarthy seems like an obvious attempt to make the #5 pick more valuable
1. Believe Harbaugh is actually sincere about a QB he just won a championship with and lost one game in two years.
Or
2. Believe Harbaugh knew back early in the college football season, when he started pumping him up, that he'd leave Michigan, take the Chargers job, have pick 5 and benefit from McCarthy going top 4.
You can:Pumping up McCarthy seems like an obvious attempt to make the #5 pick more valuable
1. Believe Harbaugh is actually sincere about a QB he just won a championship with and lost one game in two years.
Or
2. Believe Harbaugh knew back early in the college football season, when he started pumping him up, that he'd leave Michigan, take the Chargers job, have pick 5 and benefit from McCarthy going top 4.
I have in zero way, absolutely zero way, refuted that one iota. Don't get it mixed up. I'm simply pointing out not everything is a lie and his fondness for McCarthy is legit.Harbaugh prefers to keep Herbert and use the #5 pick for valuable asset(s) other than McCarthy.
I have in zero way, absolutely zero way, refuted that one iota. Don't get it mixed up. I'm simply pointing out not everything is a lie and his fondness for McCarthy is legit.Harbaugh prefers to keep Herbert and use the #5 pick for valuable asset(s) other than McCarthy.
All good and was not even pointing that comment at you.I have in zero way, absolutely zero way, refuted that one iota. Don't get it mixed up. I'm simply pointing out not everything is a lie and his fondness for McCarthy is legit.Harbaugh prefers to keep Herbert and use the #5 pick for valuable asset(s) other than McCarthy.
Cool, we agree. Earlier in the thread, I referenced "lying season" and the need to consider the source nowadays. I didn't mean to include Harbaugh in that... I meant the media outlets that are speculating about Herbert getting traded.
Assuming we're talking fantasy purposes.Question
Justin Herbert is ranked ____________ right now.
Justin Herbert is ranked ____________ at the end of the season if they draft one of the top 3 WRs in the 2024 draft?