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2014 Hall of Famers announced - '15 class now being discussed (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raider Nation
- Start date
Encyclopedia Brown
Footballguy
His whiff in the playoff game against the Bears is an automatic disqualifer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzhwSIuA5XQ
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But wasn't that because so many were out with hookers the night before? lol
Ever read LTs book where he speaks of "setting up" other teams in hotel rooms?
wow first completion with about 2 min leftSorry, forgot to post a link as you requested. I put this up on my YouTube page. Love the weather and the NFL Films music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR-NTVY64Cw
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Very cool buddy, pop a cold one tonight, you deserve it.Sorry, forgot to post a link as you requested. I put this up on my YouTube page. Love the weather and the NFL Films music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR-NTVY64Cw
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Insane, isn't it? Terrible conditions. Nothing beats a crap weather game.wow first completion with about 2 min leftSorry, forgot to post a link as you requested. I put this up on my YouTube page. Love the weather and the NFL Films music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR-NTVY64Cw
You might like the one other video I posted... also of The Juice, only in a different uniform.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Hooper31
Footballguy
It would have been just fine to say you don't know much about Walter Jones and leave it at that.
He was never a hold out. Management kept slapping the franchise tag on him after his rookie deal expired. He never "held out of camp". He didn't have a contract. Grumpy? Like you've ever met him? He didn't talk to the media. Was on par with Marshawn Lynch in that regard.
And loafer? Really? Seems you're searching for a reason to dislike the guy to make up for your lack of knowledge about the guy. Am I wrong there? I could list the ridiculous stats that made up his career, but I would suggest you do some searching on your own. You'll be able to take a little pride in knowing you did some research instead of just filling in the gaps with some negativity.
Hooper31
Footballguy
They kept Bullet Bob Hayes out until after he passed away. You can dislike it all you want, but they are consistent with regard to the "character counts" mantra.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
My odds on who will give the best induction speech - for entertainment purposes only:
Michael Strahan 2-1 (would be a shock if he doesn't kill)
Andre Reed 5-1
Aeneas Williams 5-1
Derrick Brooks 10-1
Walter Jones 15-1
Ray Guy 20-1
Claude Humphrey
Can't recall hearing him speak.
Michael Strahan 2-1 (would be a shock if he doesn't kill)
Andre Reed 5-1
Aeneas Williams 5-1
Derrick Brooks 10-1
Walter Jones 15-1
Ray Guy 20-1
Claude Humphrey
Can't recall hearing him speak.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Seahawks fan right? I post that it's "on me" as I wrote this and you highlight it and then you somehow use that as a launch board? You didn't take the time to try and educate me on anything other than to just try and scold me.
I'll wait until I read what you have to say about ALL the candidates and anything you want to add about who is getting in and then maybe I can rip you apart…I'll be in the corner holding my breath till I turn Seahawk Blue.
I do appreciate you speaking up about Jones but I tell you that media coverage where I lived was lacking I guess. Never saw a lot of Jones highlights but I did overlook Shaun Alexander who had it pretty easy running Off Tackle left. Some posters Hoop have to post more than just a couple lines per post, I know you Twitter folks like things in less than 100 bytes but sometimes we gotta go a little longer. I got most of my news in Miami/Los Angeles, never got a lot of Walter Jones hype. Miami played them in 1999 playoffs, seemed like Trace Armstrong destroyed them and I don't remember too many playoff games where Jones had much impact.
FYI…I'm not a big fan of Joe Thomas for Cleveland and I already know he is gonna get in the HoF. Not a lot of RB studs, not much has done well at QB his entire run at Left Tackle for Cleveland and they don't go to the playoffs…I mean if he is that good and I assume he is based on the reports, why oh why does Cleveland not trade him for a top 10 pick in the draft? Because having him on the team certainly isn't translating to wins.
Got way off topic, sorry about that.
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
Ministry of Pain said:You posted a fishing expedition and then good posted yourself?Frostillicus said:Frostillicus said:
Fariq
Footballguy
He was league MVP in 1968. He was a 1st team All-AFL and All-NFL QB in a couple seasons. He is a unique choice for induction, but not a wrong one. His impact on the sport was huge. His body of work can be considered among the bottom rung of Hall of Famers, but it is not as if he is an undecorated player like Andre Reed (unlike Namath, Reed was never a 1st team all-pro and Reed had to only be considered 2nd best to get a 1st team WR nod; Namath was considered the best QB in his league in 1968 and 1972).MoveToSkypager said:
Bruno Tataglia
Footballguy
JWB's head would explode if a long-snapper got in.
Fariq
Footballguy
Didn't click the link, but from your comment I figure this is the Bills game from '74. Ferguson didn't do much passing either. The only two completions in that game were from Namath.Bri said:wow first completion with about 2 min leftRaider Nation said:Sorry, forgot to post a link as you requested. I put this up on my YouTube page. Love the weather and the NFL Films music.Bri said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eR-NTVY64Cw
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Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Ministry of Pain said:You posted a fishing expedition and then good posted yourself?Frostillicus said:Frostillicus said:
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Walter Jones was consistently one of the top three lineman in the league when he played. Roaf was more lovable as a person, Jones was all business. Why would anyone respect him less because he was a serious guy? 
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Not for nuthin, but that fumble was awesome. I've never seen a ball spin so beautifully. It's like he fumbled a spiral 40 yards.
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
Jones and Hutch was such a nasty left side. Alexander must have loved going to work every day.Walter Jones was consistently one of the top three lineman in the league when he played. Roaf was more lovable as a person, Jones was all business. Why would anyone respect him less because he was a serious guy?
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
It could have to do with the fact that it does tend to be a neglected position.Kids don't grow up wanting to be a punter. There aren't NFL Channel programs on the Top 10 Greatest Punters. Therefore, people tend to not be steeped in the arcana of punting lore.Just Win Baby said:In this forum, we tend to discuss merits of HOF selections. We tend to do that even though the actual HOF voters cast their votes independent of what we are saying in this forum.nxmehta said:Here are the possibilities:Just Win Baby said:Correct. Same as with the Major League Baseball veteran committee nominees. Generally speaking, they have weakened the MLB HOF. Same thing is happening with the Pro Football HOF.
That being said, yes, of course this discussion is in the aftermath of Guy being selected. We are having a discussion. I would expect that those in favor of Guy being inducted should be able to make a case for him. Yet no one has actually put forth his case in this thread.
1. The people on this forum can't make the proper case, but the committee could, and you might agree with them. In which case we need a committe member's help here.
2. You disagree with the committee's argument (which may or may not be presented correctly on this forum). But, this is irrelevant since the definition of being a HoFer is the committee thinks you are one. QED.
I'm guessing it's 2? Or maybe it's 1. I dunno.
Can no one actually discuss Guy's merits? If he is a deserving HOFer, why is it that no one can or will make a case for him?
As to many punters surpassing him on raw numbers, I think the debate is whether he was historically important for revolutionizing his position. I don't know enough to make that argument (see above). Do you know enough about the history of the position to say he definitely wasn't and didn't?
A criticism of the later players surpassing an older player in raw numbers being grounds for exclusion argument could be along the following lines. Let's say Jesse Owens wasn't in the Track and Field Hall of Fame, and advocates were thinking about inducting him. A detractor brings up the fact that there have been many faster sprinters since that have surpassed his times. Would you think this a good argument to exclude him?
Somebody said it is easy to quantify punting. What if you are on the opposition 45 yard line, punt it out at the 10, that is a 35 yard punt included in your average. Bad play by the numbers, right?
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Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Regarding the argument of neglecting a position. How many kick returners are in the Hall? I ask that question because one day Devin Hester will be argued to be the greatest at his position before or since anyone took the time to log stats. He definitely changed games although his teams never won any SBs. I think at some point he needs to be considered for the HOF. If a player revolutionized his position or stood out in an way that made his performance outlined his era, then he should be a candidate without rotisserie numbers geeks all going up in arms.It could have to do with the fact that it does tend to be a neglected position.Kids don't grow up wanting to be a punter. There aren't NFL Channel programs on the Top 10 Greatest Punters. Therefore, people tend to not be steeped in the arcana of punting lore.
As to many punters surpassing him on raw numbers, I think the debate is whether he was historically important for revolutionizing his position. I don't know enough to make that argument (see above). Do you know enough about the history of the position to say he definitely wasn't and didn't?
A criticism of the later players surpassing an older player in raw numbers being grounds for exclusion argument could be along the following lines. Let's say Jesse Owens wasn't in the Track and Field Hall of Fame, and advocates were thinking about inducting him. A detractor brings up the fact that there have been many faster sprinters since that have surpassed his times. Would you think this a good argument to exclude him?
Somebody said it is easy to quantify punting. What if you are on the opposition 45 yard line, punt it out at the 10, that is a 35 yard punt included in your average. Bad play by the numbers, right?
Fariq
Footballguy
Off the top of my head, I think Guy was chosen 1st team six times. I will assume you got info from PFR which has a love affair with the Associated Press teams. The Assc Press all-pro team is not the only one and not until the past 10 or so years has it become the most prestigious selecting body. At one time, the Assc Press did not even select a punter. I know the AFL itself had an official all-league team with a punter and I think the PFWA team chose a punter before the Associated Press got on board later.
Devin Hester may be a first-ballot Hall of Famer. He is in for sure!!Regarding the argument of neglecting a position. How many kick returners are in the Hall? I ask that question because one day Devin Hester will be argued to be the greatest at his position before or since anyone took the time to log stats. He definitely changed games although his teams never won any SBs. I think at some point he needs to be considered for the HOF. If a player revolutionized his position or stood out in an way that made his performance outlined his era, then he should be a candidate without rotisserie numbers geeks all going up in arms.It could have to do with the fact that it does tend to be a neglected position.
Kids don't grow up wanting to be a punter. There aren't NFL Channel programs on the Top 10 Greatest Punters. Therefore, people tend to not be steeped in the arcana of punting lore.
As to many punters surpassing him on raw numbers, I think the debate is whether he was historically important for revolutionizing his position. I don't know enough to make that argument (see above). Do you know enough about the history of the position to say he definitely wasn't and didn't?
A criticism of the later players surpassing an older player in raw numbers being grounds for exclusion argument could be along the following lines. Let's say Jesse Owens wasn't in the Track and Field Hall of Fame, and advocates were thinking about inducting him. A detractor brings up the fact that there have been many faster sprinters since that have surpassed his times. Would you think this a good argument to exclude him?
Somebody said it is easy to quantify punting. What if you are on the opposition 45 yard line, punt it out at the 10, that is a 35 yard punt included in your average. Bad play by the numbers, right?
Tau837
Footballguy
Tau837
Footballguy
What makes him the best ever at his position? No one has explained that yet.No kidding.Doctor Detroit said:
at people that don't think the best ever at his position does not deserve to be in the HOF. It really shows a lack of understanding of what the Hall Of Fame is.
Tau837
Footballguy
Devin Hester is not the greatest kick returner in history. Gale Sayers was very clearly better, for one.Regarding the argument of neglecting a position. How many kick returners are in the Hall? I ask that question because one day Devin Hester will be argued to be the greatest at his position before or since anyone took the time to log stats. He definitely changed games although his teams never won any SBs. I think at some point he needs to be considered for the HOF. If a player revolutionized his position or stood out in an way that made his performance outlined his era, then he should be a candidate without rotisserie numbers geeks all going up in arms.It could have to do with the fact that it does tend to be a neglected position.Kids don't grow up wanting to be a punter. There aren't NFL Channel programs on the Top 10 Greatest Punters. Therefore, people tend to not be steeped in the arcana of punting lore.
As to many punters surpassing him on raw numbers, I think the debate is whether he was historically important for revolutionizing his position. I don't know enough to make that argument (see above). Do you know enough about the history of the position to say he definitely wasn't and didn't?
A criticism of the later players surpassing an older player in raw numbers being grounds for exclusion argument could be along the following lines. Let's say Jesse Owens wasn't in the Track and Field Hall of Fame, and advocates were thinking about inducting him. A detractor brings up the fact that there have been many faster sprinters since that have surpassed his times. Would you think this a good argument to exclude him?
Somebody said it is easy to quantify punting. What if you are on the opposition 45 yard line, punt it out at the 10, that is a 35 yard punt included in your average. Bad play by the numbers, right?
How did Hester "revolutionize" his position? Same question applies to Guy.
Hooper31
Footballguy
Perhaps. I usually don't gladly suffer fools.
Very tired of reading ignorant comments about the Seahawks, their history, and their fans. I feel like I've tried to represent our fans well dating back to 1993 when I first found RSFF on Usenet. I've discovered it only takes one fool (ITS) for others to latch onto the notion that all Seattle fans are loud, obnoxious, blind homers. The team is playing well now so it only draws more attention. And where does that attention get focused? I guess other teams have their fools, and those fools tend to glom onto the comments of other fools.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
Awesome news about Ray Guy, I'm really thrilled to hear he made it.
He totally deserves it.
He totally deserves it.
Premier
Footballguy
Jesus Christ. Who cares what somebody trolling you thinks. Just enjoy the game. It's very rare.
Ketamine Dreams
Footballguy
Exactly. There was also a Pro Bowl incident where Harrison's associates roughed up a couple people. The guy is a DB. Does that exclude him from getting in? No, he'll get in, but IMO he shouldn't.Bri said:
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
He made the guarantee, but he didn't make the win. What he did was essentially place a bet with someone else's money. That's not ballsy to me.Raider Nation said:
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
There were better players in 1968, Len Dawson to start with. He is known for a single moment of NFL history and that's it. He's like the original David Tyree.
CalBear
Footballguy
No, because punts inside the 20 are part of the numbers, and every punter gets asked to punt it from the opposition's 45 yard line.
pizzatyme
Footballguy
Link?Harrison hasn't even been questioned by detectives IIRC.
Yet he is preceded into the hall by Reed? What a joke.
Faust
MVP
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