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Carson Palmer Traded to Oakland (1 Viewer)

Hmmm.. I remember hearing how bad that 1st rounder for Seymour trade was 2 years ago and how it was the "Worst trade since Hershel Walker" then too... That move doesn't look so outrageous now, does it. Let the hater's keep hating.

 
It would be fair value if we were talking about Carson Palmer at the apex of his career. Clearly, that isn't the case. Palmer's arm strength isn't close to what it used to be.

 
'Hüsker Brü said:
It would be fair value if we were talking about Carson Palmer at the apex of his career. Clearly, that isn't the case. Palmer's arm strength isn't close to what it used to be.
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watch some film please. it's on page 3.
 
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2nd worst in the league last season in Adjusted INTs (accounting for dropped INTs, hail marys, tipped balls). The likelihood that his problems last year stemmed from poor route running is very low.

 
I don't think Palmer is done, in fact, I think the guy can still play at a high level, but 2 1sts

was way overboard for a 32 year old QB.

Never good to allow emotions come into the business side here, and with Davis being gone, Oakland is trying to win at all costs in his memory.

Plus, with dwindling attendence, Mike Brown most likely views this as a way to jump start some attendence

Get some enthusiasm and positve energy into the organization, bc the city of Cincinnati has suckers for fans.

Gullible.

Mike Brown-#Winning

Never thought I'd say that.

 
'RUSF18 said:
2nd worst in the league last season in Adjusted INTs (accounting for dropped INTs, hail marys, tipped balls). The likelihood that his problems last year stemmed from poor route running is very low.
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Behind Gomer Manning, maybe? Gomer is kicking ### this year. Means nothing. However, those in the know, realize the suckage of ochocinco. He's really ripping it up in NE.
 
Why don't we wait and see how this plays out before declaring it the worst trade in the history of the multiverse, shall we? Yes, it's a big win for the Bengals, but Palmer is only 31 years old and we don't know the conditions of the second pick. I recall Palmer finishing pretty strong last year and playing on a disaster of a team with a bunch of clowns for WRs. Seen 85's season so far in NE?

 
I think so.....but you're gonna see A LOT of DMC. Probably a scaled down playbook to start.

He could be a stud after the bye week however.

Boncos > Chargers > Vikings > Bears > :thumbup:

 
'FavreCo said:
'yellowdog said:
'VaTerp said:
'FavreCo said:
Did the Raiders also get a jar or marinara sauce in this deal? Cuz Palmer's spaghetti shoulder is going to be pretty bland without it.
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Why don't we wait and see. I'll put up my 'Ochcosuckos suckage at route running' vs your 'Palmer's spaghetti shoulder'.
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Chad's route running has NOTHING to do with the complete lack of arm strength Palmer has demonstrated since his elbow problems in 2008.Maybe the time off has magically rejuvenated his arm but there is no debate among those who have seen him play that Palmer has not had the same velocity or overall arm strength the last few years.
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Watch
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First of all the video was uploaded in January of 2010 but there are many highlights with TJ Housh in it. He hasnt played for the Bengals since 2008 so we don't know when those highlights are from. They definitely are NOT from the 2010 season.Secondly, my opinon on Palmer's arm is based on WATCHING him play the last few years and the written opinions of many people who evaluate NFL talent for a living.

And blaming everything on Ochocinco b/c you obviously don't like the guy falls much more in the "repeating stuff b/c one bozo says it with no proof to back it up" department.

Here is a link to Greg Cosell, NFL films executive, saying that Palmer's arm strenght "has clearly decreased on tape since his 2008 elbow injury. Not the same passer he was," Cosell says. "Can't drive the ball and make stick throws." Palmer's passes have been fluttering since he tore ligaments and tendons in his throwing arm three years ago.

http://forum.go-bengals.com/index.php?showtopic=59976

Here's a link with Palmer himself admitting he needs to regain arm strength in 2009.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/dayton-sports/cincinnati-bengals/bengals-palmer-works-to-improve-arm-strength-178892.html

I'm not saying Palmer completely sucks nor am I saying that he has "lost ALL his arm stregnth" as suggested. What I am saying is that based on watching him play and the opinions of talent evaluators that his arm is not nearly the same as it was prior to his elbow problems and it shows on tape and in games.

 
'FavreCo said:
'Hüsker Brü said:
It would be fair value if we were talking about Carson Palmer at the apex of his career. Clearly, that isn't the case. Palmer's arm strength isn't close to what it used to be.
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watch some film please. it's on page 3.
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I'm not trying to start something here, but you do know the difference between film and youtube highlights right? Need the lowlights video to balance it out.Any professional QB can stand in a clean pocket and throw the ball 50ish yards in the air on the fly.What he can't do with any consistency since the surgery is drive the 15 yard out, hit the TE in a tight seam, throw on the move, etc.I'm not saying that reports his arm is shot aren't overblown, but he is definitively on a different level than he was previously.
 
Perhaps it's possible that since he has acknowledged that he needs to increase his arm strength that maybe he has actually increased his arm strength? I doubt the Raiders sign him if he's just been sitting at the crib all this time doing bong hits and playing Call of Duty.

 
'FavreCo said:
'RUSF18 said:
2nd worst in the league last season in Adjusted INTs (accounting for dropped INTs, hail marys, tipped balls). The likelihood that his problems last year stemmed from poor route running is very low.
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Behind Gomer Manning, maybe? Gomer is kicking ### this year. Means nothing. However, those in the know, realize the suckage of ochocinco. He's really ripping it up in NE.
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No, behind Mark Sanchez. But I'm not claiming that's the end all, be all to judge this by. And for the record, other guys up there in numbers are Peyton and Brees. But those guys don't have a noodle arm like, those in the know, realize Palmer has.
 
'domvin said:
I don't think Palmer is done, in fact, I think the guy can still play at a high level, but 2 1stswas way overboard for a 32 year old QB.Never good to allow emotions come into the business side here, and with Davis being gone, Oakland is trying to win at all costs in his memory.Plus, with dwindling attendence, Mike Brown most likely views this as a way to jump start some attendenceGet some enthusiasm and positve energy into the organization, bc the city of Cincinnati has suckers for fans.Gullible.Mike Brown-#WinningNever thought I'd say that.
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It is pretty funny how getting rid of a player for draft picks can spur attendance - but this is the one case where it probably will :) -QG
 
'Apple Jack said:
Perhaps it's possible that since he has acknowledged that he needs to increase his arm strength that maybe he has actually increased his arm strength? I doubt the Raiders sign him if he's just been sitting at the crib all this time doing bong hits and playing Call of Duty.
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:goodposting: Palmer could surprise...but keep ripping him while I stash him off waivers this week.
 
'treat88 said:
'FavreCo said:
'Hüsker Brü said:
It would be fair value if we were talking about Carson Palmer at the apex of his career. Clearly, that isn't the case. Palmer's arm strength isn't close to what it used to be.
Click to expand...
watch some film please. it's on page 3.
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I'm not trying to start something here, but you do know the difference between film and youtube highlights right? Need the lowlights video to balance it out.Any professional QB can stand in a clean pocket and throw the ball 50ish yards in the air on the fly.What he can't do with any consistency since the surgery is drive the 15 yard out, hit the TE in a tight seam, throw on the move, etc.I'm not saying that reports his arm is shot aren't overblown, but he is definitively on a different level than he was previously.
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Exactly. As you said, what they are calling "film" is a highlight video that we don't even know when it's from. I'm willing to bet that a lot of it is from pre 2008.
 
From the ESPN article:

"Palmer was willing to restructure his contract, which would pay him $6.9 million for the balance of this season, sources said. The Raiders have about $6 million left under the cap."

Make sense that that would happen.

-QG

 
Carson Palmer traded to Raiders for first-round pick, future considerations

By Doug Farrar

After insisting that he would not trade quarterback Carson Palmer(notes) under any circumstances, even after Palmer threatened to retire rather than play for the his team, Cincinnati Bengals owner Mike Brown(notes) was finally ready to bend on that issue at the 11th hour. According to a Tuesday report by Fox Sports' Jay Glazer, Brown had been talking with the Oakland Raiders about a trade that would send Palmer to the Oakland Raiders for a first-round draft pick in 2012 and a conditional first-round pick in 2013. The trade has subseqently been confirmed by ESPN's Chris Mortensen, and it will happen just before the 1:00 PM PT trade deadline. According to Peter King of Sports Illustrated, Palmer is in the Bay Area getting the physical that will seal the deal.

On Tuesday morning, Shutdown Corner spoke with Travelle Gaines of Athletes Performance in Carson, Calif., where Palmer has been working out for months. As it turns out, Gaines — who also works with the Raiders in an advisory capacity — was the man the Raiders leaned on to find out what kind of football shape Palmer was in. "He looks great — he's been throwing every day, and working with Ken O'Brien, the quarterbacks coach," Gaines said. "He's been throwing to his good buddy T.J. Houshmandzadeh(notes), working with Terrell Owens(notes) and Hank Baskett(notes). He looks great. I think he'll be ready to go and step right in for the Raiders. He and Coach Jackson have worked together in the past, and they have a great relationship."

Gaines has built up one of the more impressive NFL clienteles as a conditioning coach over the years, and the Raiders asked him to join their staff to play a similar role in the 2011 offseason. That paid dividends when the Raiders starting doing due diligence on Palmer's ability … and availability. "Coach Jackson leaned on me heavily through this process, and they definitely kept tabs on him," Gaines said of Palmer.

The deal makes Oakland's 2012 draft very interesting — not only did they give up their 2012 third-rounder when they selected Ohio State quarterback Terrelle Pryor(notes) in the 2011 supplemental draft, but they will also have traded away their first-round, second-round, fourth-round, and seventh-round picks for 2012 in various other deals. The second-rounder left in a draft weekend trade with the New England Patriots, the fourth-rounder was for Jason Campbell(notes), and the seventh-rounder was for former Seattle Seahawks linebacker Aaron Curry(notes). Add in the third-rounder sacrificed for Pryor, and the Raiders might as well go fishing nesxt April.

Of course, that's not entirelly true -- they'll get compensatory picks for losing veterans like Nnamdi Asomugha(notes), Zach Miller, and Robert Gallery(notes) -- but it's obvious that the 4-2 Raiders, who are currently in second place behind the San Diego Chargers in the AFC West, are going all out to win in a 2011 season that has been marked by the loss of Al Davis.

The Raiders were desperate for a quarterback after losing Jason Campbell to a broken collarbone and finding out that former Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback David Garrard(notes), who the team was looking at in the wake of Campbell's injury, needs surgery of his own to repair a herniated disc in his back.

According to Glazer, the close relationship between Brown current Hue Jackson was the tiebreaker that sent Brown on a different path — Jackson was the Bengals' receivers coach from 2004 through 2006.

Still, it's a big move for the notoriously stubborn Brown, who will take grudges over value whenever he feels like it; we remember when the Vinny Cerrato-era Washington Redskins offered him two first-round picks for Chad Ochocinco(notes), only to be rebuffed.

"Carson signed a contract, he made a commitment," Brown said of the situation in late July. "He gave us his word. We relied on his word and his commitment. We expected him to perform here. If he is going to walk away from his commitment we aren't going to reward him for doing it."

It's also possible that Brown never expected to receive a first-round pick and more from any team. Although Palmer ranked decently in Football Outsiders' DVOA and DYAR metrics in 2010, the Bengals had no qualms about drafting TCU quarterback Andy Dalton(notes) and moving forward with the rookie under center. They're 4-2 with Dalton's efforts, the great productivity of rookie wideout A.J. Green(notes), and one of the best defenses in the league. It could be that Brown, sitting in the catbird seat as he is, took a rare shot at recognizing when another team was overvaluing one of his assets.

There's also the matter of Palmer's contract, which would ostensibly revert entirely to the Raiders. Right now, in the contract extension that runs through 2014, Palmer is due base salaries of $11.5 million in 2011 (more like $6.9 million prorated for 2011) and 2012. Oakland's front office will certainly work to reduce those numbers going forward in some kind of restructure, which could be why the trade wasn't consummated more quickly. The Raiders are currently about $6 million under the salary cap.

According to Glazer, Palmer is in good football shape and ready to go — he said on the Dan Patrick Show this morning that Palmer has been working out at Athletes Performance in Carson, Calif. (with friend of Shutdown Corner Travelle Gaines in attendance) with Terrell Owens, Hank Baskett, and T.J. Houshmandzadeh.
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LINK
 
I would worry less about his arm strength, I think he still has plenty of arm. But he plays scared. Any clutter around his legs he gets happy feet, doesn't plant and sails balls high, begging to be picked off. His problem's are more psychological than physical IMO.

 
So I wasn't dreaming....

Has to be one of the worst deals (as it stands today) I have seen. The Raiders don't even have a draft next season and they probably won't have one in 13 when all is said and done. This was a QB you KNEW wasn't going to play for Cincy again and you gave up 2 - 1's?!?! WOW

 
'yellowdog said:
'VaTerp said:
'FavreCo said:
'5-ish Finkle said:
Did the Raiders also get a jar or marinara sauce in this deal? Cuz Palmer's spaghetti shoulder is going to be pretty bland without it.
Click to expand...
Why don't we wait and see. I'll put up my 'Ochcosuckos suckage at route running' vs your 'Palmer's spaghetti shoulder'.
Click to expand...
Chad's route running has NOTHING to do with the complete lack of arm strength Palmer has demonstrated since his elbow problems in 2008.Maybe the time off has magically rejuvenated his arm but there is no debate among those who have seen him play that Palmer has not had the same velocity or overall arm strength the last few years.
Click to expand...
Watch
Click to expand...
he's lost his arm strength
 
'Apple Jack said:
Perhaps it's possible that since he has acknowledged that he needs to increase his arm strength that maybe he has actually increased his arm strength? I doubt the Raiders sign him if he's just been sitting at the crib all this time doing bong hits and playing Call of Duty.
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Entirely possible. Also possible that his arm is not, and will not ever be, what it once was.There is some middle ground between having one of the better arms in the league that he displayed pre elbow problems to a guy on his couch doing bong hits and playing X-box.Time will tell and I have no dog in this fight. I think Palmer is obviously still a very serviceable QB. I also think that his arm is not nearly what it once was and that the Raiders drastically overpaid for his services if the end up giving up a 1st and another high round pick. JMO.
 
This is an especially bad trade for the Raiders considering that they already spent next year's third rounder on a QB. Just an absolute disaster of a trade IMO.

 
Boatload of 'lack of arm strength' guys are going to look foolish. 26 TD's last year with a noodle arm. :lmao:

 
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So where do we rank Palmer in RoY value for fantasy? I'm going to say QB10-QB15, comparable to guys like McCoy, Hasselbeck, and maybe Ryan. But his floor could be a lot lower than other QBs in that range, depending on whether or not he's really lost arm strength or not.

 
'Rich Conway said:
This is an especially bad trade for the Raiders considering that they already spent next year's third rounder on a QB. Just an absolute disaster of a trade IMO.
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Great deal for the Raiders. Most draft picks are overrated and don't pan out anyways. Anytime you can get a proven player for draft picks it is well worth it. The Raiders already have the young talent to build around as well.
 
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'GreenNGold said:
'Rich Conway said:
This is an especially bad trade for the Raiders considering that they already spent next year's third rounder on a QB. Just an absolute disaster of a trade IMO.
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Great deal for the Raiders. Most draft picks are overrated and don't pan out anyways. Anytime you can get a proven player for draft picks it is well worth it. The Raiders already have the young talent to build around as well.
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I agree that Palmer is a "proven player", it's just that the proof shows he's decidedly mediocre.
 
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'VaTerp said:
'Apple Jack said:
Perhaps it's possible that since he has acknowledged that he needs to increase his arm strength that maybe he has actually increased his arm strength? I doubt the Raiders sign him if he's just been sitting at the crib all this time doing bong hits and playing Call of Duty.
Click to expand...
Entirely possible. Also possible that his arm is not, and will not ever be, what it once was.There is some middle ground between having one of the better arms in the league that he displayed pre elbow problems to a guy on his couch doing bong hits and playing X-box.Time will tell and I have no dog in this fight. I think Palmer is obviously still a very serviceable QB. I also think that his arm is not nearly what it once was and that the Raiders drastically overpaid for his services if the end up giving up a 1st and another high round pick. JMO.
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Agree 100%.
 
The pieces in Oakland could make for some big numbers for Palmer. No runner in the league demands more respect than DMC. He could be a fantasy stud.

 
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The worst part of this trade is that two more first-round talents will end up in the black hole that is Cincy.

 
As a Raiders fan im ok with the choice of QB ...but the price was too steep...maybe 1 first round pick(a second round pick would have been more in line) but TWO first round picks ???? :shock:

 
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'GreenNGold said:
'Rich Conway said:
This is an especially bad trade for the Raiders considering that they already spent next year's third rounder on a QB. Just an absolute disaster of a trade IMO.
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Great deal for the Raiders. Most draft picks are overrated and don't pan out anyways. Anytime you can get a proven player for draft picks it is well worth it. The Raiders already have the young talent to build around as well.
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Although two 1st rounders is shocking, Palmer is an upgrade over Campbell and the Raiders are playing safe with a proven player than an unknown QB prospect who may take time to develop. They have the WR talent and RB depth and now they have a better QB.
 
'ImTheScientist said:
lolRaiders, joke of a franchise, joke of the NFL.
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This deal was inevitable. The only thing that's baffling is the quantity of bounty that Cincy was able to squeeze out of this. Congrats to the Bengals. If the NFL were a typical fantasy league, you'd see half the AFC screaming for a commish veto!! :eek: The only thing that the Bengals didn't get out of this deal are the rights to use all of Oakland's attorney's that they've used to sue the NFL over the years to work on bailing Bengal's players out of legal trouble at the Raiders expense (or maybe that was included?) . . . . paging MassRaider to this thread. MassRaider, MassRaider, you out there?
 
'BustedKnuckles said:
As a Raiders fan im ok with the choice of QB ...but the price was too steep...maybe 1 first round pick(a second round pick would have been more in line) but TWO first round picks ???? :shock:
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It's one first round pick, with the conditions of the second not made public yet. I imagine he'd have to be pretty successful in order for that to be bumped up to a first rounder, in which case, it would obviously be worthwhile to the Raiders. I'm in agreement with those who say draft picks can be wildly overvalued. It's a gamble, just like anything else. Obviously, they feel they need a QB and don't like who would be falling to where they'd end up, and most importantly, this is somebody they can plug in now with a team they feel is competitive and they believe can give them results. How many mid to late first round QBs end up producing like Palmer in the NFL? Clearly, it's very important to the Raiders organization that they pull all stops this season. I respect the aggressiveness.
 
As far as price goes- this is what QBs go for. Whitehurst- 3rd rounder, Kolb 2nd + DRC, Schaub two 2nds, McNabb a 2nd and a 4th.

Palmer looked pretty league averageish the past two years. On the other hand he looked like a first ballot HoFer his first 4 years starting- and that was with a severe knee injury.

 
'Sinn Fein said:
'Walton Goggins said:
'notdarkyet said:
At worst it's a first and a second. As a Bengals fan, I am ecstatic. Hell hath frozen over and Mike Brown ended up making the right move and making out like a bandit.
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How many Bengal fans are now saying Mike Brown is the worst owner in the NFL?
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:hey:He is still a bad owner. The only team he could swindle was a team with no owner.
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So you hated their last draft and who they picked as well since he's a bad owner, right?
 
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