Charles Johnson - WR Grand Valley State (4 Viewers)

[lod01]

Well, if Gordon is suspended the season, and Miles Austin pulls a hammy getting out of bed on Sunday week 1, that leaves Hawkins and what else? If he's healed, he should play if he's any good at all.

 

[Khy]

Well, if Gordon is suspended the season, and Miles Austin pulls a hammy getting out of bed on Sunday week 1, that leaves Hawkins and what else? If he's healed, he should play if he's any good at all.

Yeah, I snagged him up in a couple of my dynasty leagues where he was sitting on the waivers. They're all fairly short bench leagues though, I can hold him for now but I have to cut 4 guys before kickoff week one. So if it doesn't sound like he has a chance to play I may have to drop him. But I figured, he's worth the hold to see what happens with camp and preseason.

 

[Slapdash]

Well, if Gordon is suspended the season, and Miles Austin pulls a hammy getting out of bed on Sunday week 1, that leaves Hawkins and what else? If he's healed, he should play if he's any good at all.

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out who is going to get the targets in Cleveland. Seems like people are high on his upside, but I feel like you hear the same stuff about WRs on the GB practice squad every year.

 

[Sabertooth]

I like his chances better than Josh Huff (PHI) or John Brown (AZ) to produce in the short and long term. Short term obviously the depth chart in Cleveland is a shambles. But long term he's young and has some nice size at 6'2 215. With his speed, you'd think he'll be able to make a serious push to get on the field. The team has Cameron and for targets. I think if he gets the spot, he's got a good chance to keep it.

 

[mrnick33]

Time to rev up the engine on his hype train again?

 

[Sabertooth]

I think so.

 

[Bob Barker]

He is worth grabbing if u can get him free/cheap and seeing how he does in training camp and preseason. He seems to be the WR on Clev with the physical skills most likely to replace Gordon

 

[mrnick33]

He's one of my favorite lotto tickets. Lots of opportunity on that depth chart for someone to make some noise. Hope he gets a good look during training camp.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Hang onto that lotto ticket.

The last report that mentioned WR Charles Johnson ( 6-foot-2 and 215 pounds, 4.38 forty) came days ago when rookie QB Johnny Manziel was partying with Beiber and it was reported on Cleveland Browns Daily radio show that Charles Johnson was in Cleveland working out with Andrew Hawkins and CJ said he was also working out with the Browns #1 QB.

So he was working out with Hoyer and WR Andrew Hawkins as recently as a few days ago.

The last official mention of CJ came from HC Mike Pettine and at that time it seemed to hint CJ would not be ready for training camp and might land on the PUP list at the start of TC but looking back over that story it reads more optimistically than I felt at first glance.

Pettine says it looks like even though Charles 'could' start TC on the PUP that he thought back in May that he would be ready.

Considering the latest blurb from CJ came only a few days ago I think he will be ready when camp opens in a few weeks.

Here is the last official mention of Cleveland Browns WR Charles Johnson from May.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns-notebook-defensive-coordinator-jim-o-neil-counts-on-safety-donte-whitner-to-intimidate-offenses-1.491634

... Injured players who worked out on the side with athletic trainers were wide Benjamin, Charles Johnson and Taylor Gabriel, defensive end Ahtyba Rubin, running backs Dion Lewis, Isaiah Crowell and Jourdan Brooks, safety Jamoris Slaughter, defensive back K’Waun Williams, linebackers Brandon Magee, Eric Martin and Tank Carder.

Of all the injured players, Pettine said only Benjamin and Johnson are in jeopardy of missing the beginning of training camp in late July.

“Those two would be the only ones that potentially could start on PUP [the physically unable to perform list],” Pettine said. “But at this point, I think it looks pretty good that they’ll both be able to start training camp.”

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Hang onto that lotto ticket.

The last report that mentioned WR Charles Johnson ( 6-foot-2 and 215 pounds, 4.38 forty) came days ago when rookie QB Johnny Manziel was partying with Beiber and it was reported on Cleveland Browns Daily radio show that Charles Johnson was in Cleveland working out with Andrew Hawkins and CJ said he was also working out with the Browns #1 QB.

So he was working out with Hoyer and WR Andrew Hawkins as recently as a few days ago.

The last official mention of CJ came from HC Mike Pettine and at that time it seemed to hint CJ would not be ready for training camp and might land on the PUP list at the start of TC but looking back over that story it reads more optimistically than I felt at first glance.

Pettine says it looks like even though Charles 'could' start TC on the PUP that he thought back in May that he would be ready.

Considering the latest blurb from CJ came only a few days ago I think he will be ready when camp opens in a few weeks.

Here is the last official mention of Cleveland Browns WR Charles Johnson from May.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns-notebook-defensive-coordinator-jim-o-neil-counts-on-safety-donte-whitner-to-intimidate-offenses-1.491634

... Injured players who worked out on the side with athletic trainers were wide Benjamin, Charles Johnson and Taylor Gabriel, defensive end Ahtyba Rubin, running backs Dion Lewis, Isaiah Crowell and Jourdan Brooks, safety Jamoris Slaughter, defensive back K’Waun Williams, linebackers Brandon Magee, Eric Martin and Tank Carder.

Of all the injured players, Pettine said only Benjamin and Johnson are in jeopardy of missing the beginning of training camp in late July.

“Those two would be the only ones that potentially could start on PUP [the physically unable to perform list],” Pettine said. “But at this point, I think it looks pretty good that they’ll both be able to start training camp.”

You know what, just watch Hoyer be a little tougher to dislodge than people are expecting; and he did fine finding Gordon. That was Gordon of course but if CJ is healthy I bet a vet like Hoyer will know how to find him too.

 

[BWill]

I was able to get him last year. Holding onto him in case he is the winning lotto ticket. I hope!!! Even if it's 1 year.

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

Charles Johnson - WR - Browns

The Cleveland Plain Dealer points to Browns WR Charles Johnson as the "most intriguing prospect" who could push Miles Austin and Nate Burleson for snaps.

As long as Johnson (ACL surgery) is healthy, get ready for a summer full of hype. At 6'2/215 with sub-4.4 jets, there's a good chance he's going to look special on the practice field next to washed-up vets like Austin and Burleson. Johnson underwent knee surgery in October and should be ready for the start of camp this week. He's a deep sleeper to keep an eye on throughout the preseason.

Source: Cleveland Plain Dealer

Jul 22 - 10:36 AM

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Blurb referenced above from the PD on CJ:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/07/jordan_cameron_needs_another_b.html

Emerging talents

The Browns will look to upgrade the position as teams release receivers through training camp. There's also time to trade for one, although that seems unlikely. The club must hope someone on the depth chart emerges to push the veterans. The most intriguing prospect is Charles Johnson, who at 6-2, 215 certainly looks the part. But the small-school product has been dogged by knee injuries, including an ACL tear, since turning pro. The Browns should finally get a good look at him in training camp.

At the link is a video of CJ's workout.

 

[Slapdash]

Charles Johnson is my Kembrell Thompkins of 2014....hope it works out better.

 

[fossdboss]

I grabbed Johnson as a lottery ticket in a dynasty league at the end of last year. The news of the missed ACL injury was a mystery at the time and I'm surprised there was never much reported about it after the story initially broke.

It's proven difficult to find practice report information for players on the actual practice squad.

Apparently, he practiced at least once with the torn ACL in October. Is Johnson just a tough S.O.B.? So good he doesn't need an ACL?

The article below speculates he may have torn it on the 2nd day of camp 2013 (July 27th).

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/2351/starter-pack-the-most-bizarre-injury-of-all

"Johnson sustained a knee injury on the second day of training camp. He said at the time it was diagnosed as an MCL sprain, which typically heals in 2-4 weeks. Perhaps he actually had a torn ACL at that time, and the Packers missed it. Johnson, a promising but raw seventh-round draft pick from Grand Valley State, was so far behind when he returned from the injury that he never made a serious bid for a roster spot.

The Packers immediately signed him to their practice squad, and there was no indication of a problem. However, Johnson was absent from practice on Oct. 9. Practice squad players do not appear on injury reports. Johnson returned to practice the next day. "

As soon as we get some reports from Browns camp this may be moot. I just find it a bit curious there is so little information available about the knee. Perhaps both teams are embarrassed about how the injury was missed.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

I grabbed Johnson as a lottery ticket in a dynasty league at the end of last year. The news of the missed ACL injury was a mystery at the time and I'm surprised there was never much reported about it after the story initially broke.

It's proven difficult to find practice report information for players on the actual practice squad.

Apparently, he practiced at least once with the torn ACL in October. Is Johnson just a tough S.O.B.? So good he doesn't need an ACL?

The article below speculates he may have torn it on the 2nd day of camp 2013 (July 27th).

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/2351/starter-pack-the-most-bizarre-injury-of-all

"Johnson sustained a knee injury on the second day of training camp. He said at the time it was diagnosed as an MCL sprain, which typically heals in 2-4 weeks. Perhaps he actually had a torn ACL at that time, and the Packers missed it. Johnson, a promising but raw seventh-round draft pick from Grand Valley State, was so far behind when he returned from the injury that he never made a serious bid for a roster spot.

The Packers immediately signed him to their practice squad, and there was no indication of a problem. However, Johnson was absent from practice on Oct. 9. Practice squad players do not appear on injury reports. Johnson returned to practice the next day. "

As soon as we get some reports from Browns camp this may be moot. I just find it a bit curious there is so little information available about the knee. Perhaps both teams are embarrassed about how the injury was missed.

I don't know if the Packers were embarrassed at missing the torn ACL or they didn't want to comment due to legal issues of having a player practicing with a torn ACL or they were mad at the Browns front office from last year plucking one of their practice squad guys with upside or a combination of all of the above but Green Bay's HC made a comment that hinted of something odd about that whole situation.

He seemed to rboth egret that CJ got signed away but he said something along the lines that this wasn't settled yet or something along those lines but quickly retracted from saying anything further.

Their seems to be something that he hinted at that we'll never know about the situation.

Per Charles Johnson. He was practicing the entire time with Green Bay and I think I remember hearing that he was named the practice squad player of the week four of the five weeks he was there before the Browns signed him according to an interview I heard from either the Browns GM Ray Farmer or HC Mike Pettine, can't recall who said it but they brought that up when they were asked about the untapped upside of WR Charles Johnson.

Everyone in the media who covers the Browns is at least mildly intriuged by this guy and so are fans who have been paying attention.

He's got the size/speed and raw talent. He was a late pick but he dropped in the draft due to off-field issues but now he seems to be a model citizen. He's not a rookie, he's been through a training camp with the Pack and was still practicing with them before the Browns signed him and caught the ACL injury.

No one has seem him in real NFL action and the mystery deepens since he's been in rehab and missed OTAs/mini-camp so this will be the first time we get to see him so the anticipation has been building for a long time.

Charles Johnson is in a great spot to quickly move into lots of playing time if he is physically sound and if he can mentally get up to speed since their isn't much in front of him. He's got the goods in terms of size/speed/athleticism and the team sure could use someone to emerge.

Fingers crossed.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

So is he ready for the start of training camp, now that's it's just about here?

Or not?

 

[The Hank]

 

[Bracie Smathers]

So is he ready for the start of training camp, now that's it's just about here?

Or not?

According to Browns head coach Mike Pettine nobody will start camp on the PUP and the only guy who might benefit from being limited is WR Travis Benjamin.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/q-a-browns-coach-mike-pettine-says-he-has-talked-to-johnny-manziel-about-off-field-behavior-team-won-t-cut-josh-gordon-1.506572

Q: Do you have an update on whether you will you have anybody begin training camp on the physically unable to perform list?

A: “No, but I’ll have that meeting with [head athletic trainer] Joe [sheehan] in the morning. The only guy that coming out of the spring that we thought could be on PUP was [receiver] Travis [benjamin, who suffered a torn ACL last season]. He’s good to go, but an extra week might be in his benefit. He was the only one that I was aware that had a chance to be limited. But all the other guys should be good to go, even [rookie guard Joel] Bitonio [sprained ankle], and guys that ended the [mandatory minicamp in June] with an injury. Those were all short-term issues.”

Don't forget Charles Johnson didn't even know he had a torn ACL so, I'm only guessing but I think its a reasonable guess, that his ACL probably wasn't a severe tear and we only had positive updates on his status dating back to last December all the way up through OTAs so I think he's ready to go full-speed for training camp.

 

[wadegarrett]

Could the blind investment in receiver Charles Johnson pay off this year for the Browns?Jul 28, 2014

Tony Grossi

ESPNCleveland.com

The Morning Kickoff …

Player-to-watch alert: Charles Johnson, the receiver the Browns signed off the Green Bay practice squad last October only to discover he had a torn ACL, has been a revelation in the first days of training camp.

Physically imposing (6-2 ½, 215), deceptively fast (4.38 40 time) and surprisingly up to speed on the Kyle Shanahan offense, Johnson could be the receiver that comes out of nowhere to lessen the impact of – if not offset -- the impending suspension of Josh Gordon.

“He’s a guy that we hope can emerge from this as a guy that can help us,” said coach Mike Pettine.

When Johnson walks onto the field wearing No. 80 – he traded No. 11 to Travis Benjamin in the spring – he certainly looks the part of a big-play receiver.

But the intrigue of this player stretches beyond his physical appearance.

Johnson participated fully on the Packers’ practice squad well into October despite recurring pain in his left knee and at least one MRI that revealed a slight tear of the anterior cruciate ligament.

I asked him why he did that.

“It wasn’t a pain I couldn’t get through,” he said. “I’ve got people that depend on me, so I’m out there working. The pain is temporary, but quitting is forever. It was hurting sometimes, but once the ball was snapped I couldn’t feel nothing.”

The $6,000 weekly paycheck Johnson received on the Packers’ practice squad meant everything to him. He had two infant daughters and a third on the way to support, and a father battling multiple illnesses.

A leap of faith: “It was crazy,” Johnson said of his rookie season of 2013. “My first year in the NFL, I was plagued with injuries. But it’s nothing I haven’t been through before. I faced a lot of obstacles in my life. I felt God had placed for me another one.

“My dad’s been real ill. I’ve been suspended from a school. I’ve taken a year off (to tend to his father in Kentucky). I’ve been struggling. Kids at a young age. It’s not always easy, but if you can make it through those times it makes you a stronger person.”

Johnson, of Elsmere, KY, originally committed to Louisville. He didn’t qualify early enough and went to Eastern Kentucky. Early as a true freshman, Johnson was kicked off the team when he wouldn’t rat out his roommate, a close high school friend, on the charge of a stolen laptop computer.

Johnson transferred to a community college in California. The next year, his dad became ill and Johnson quit school to be with him. After a year, he enrolled at Grand Valley State, a Division II school in Allendale, MI. In two seasons, Johnson had 128 receptions for 2,129 yards (16.6 average) and 31 touchdowns.

Not invited to the NFL Combine, Johnson turned some heads at a pro day workout arranged by his agent, posting a 40 time of 4.38 and measuring 39 ½ inches in the vertical jump. Some draftniks had him going as high as the third round; Mel Kiper projected him in the fourth round. The Browns worked him out, but their disjointed personnel department a year ago couldn’t arrive at a consensus on Johnson. The Packers selected him in the seventh round.

“I had a pretty good college career,” Johnson said. “I had good numbers at my pro day. People didn’t know about me, but the Packers are known for drafting and building receivers.”

Making up for lost time: Before the Browns knew of Johnson’s torn ACL, they signed him to a three-year contract. Though they received much derision for not knowing of the injury, they were unfazed and felt the investment was sound.

“I’m glad they kept me around,” Johnson said. “They didn’t have to. They could’ve let me go back on the street, go back to Green Bay, but they kept me around. I’m just going to work as hard as I can to get back to full recovery and go back to being me and being able to contribute.”

Through the months of lonely rehab, Johnson formed a bond with Brian Hoyer, who was rehabbing his own ACL surgery. As they both progressed, Johnson was the receiver most frequently catching Hoyer’s passes in the solitude of the empty Browns’ fieldhouse.

“He’s a hard worker,” Hoyer said. “He has size (and) speed for a big guy. I think he gets in and out of routes really well. The other day, I ran a route with him where he had a double move, and for a big guy, for him to get in and out of the break was impressive.

“I think a lot of people are waiting to see what he’s capable of. He’s very smart, he works really hard and as a quarterback, that’s all that you can ask for -- a guy who’s out there trying to learn and trying to go hard.”

Browns GM Ray Farmer was the assistant GM last year and had a voice in signing Johnson.

“The easy things (to point to) are all the recognizables right away, that he’s 6-2 ½, 215 pounds … he ran a 4.38 40,” Farmer said. “Those are the easy pieces, but when you watch the tape you like his hands. You like the fact that he can run the routes, and right now it’s a young man that put a lot of work to recovering from an ACL injury. You can see that he’s big. He’s still fast and he can run routes and catch the football.

“I’m really excited for him to get his opportunity. Everybody now is getting a chance to see what we thought about Charles Johnson live.”

Johnson is not going to replace Gordon. Even if he makes the final roster, odds are against Johnson being an instant contributor. He has too much ground to make up. But other than Gordon, there isn’t a receiver on the roster with his size and speed. And the motivation to take advantage of them.

 

[Sabertooth]

He's the next Josh Gordon.

 

[The Hank]

I'm buying -- does anyone know the latest ADP for him yet? Thinking about targeting him in 12-14th rd

 

[wadegarrett]

I'm buying -- does anyone know the latest ADP for him yet? Thinking about targeting him in 12-14th rd

Haven't seen him even hit boards yet.

 

[MAC_32]

I'm buying -- does anyone know the latest ADP for him yet? Thinking about targeting him in 12-14th rd

ADP is thrown out the window in regards to anything after round 11, create a short list of fliers, prioritize them, then pick them.

I don't know where Johnson is on that list for me for redrafts, but he'll be there. Have happily stashed him for cheap in both dyno's, anxious to see how he does in preseason games.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

... Johnson is not going to replace Gordon. Even if he makes the final roster, odds are against Johnson being an instant contributor. He has too much ground to make up. But other than Gordon, there isn’t a receiver on the roster with his size and speed. And the motivation to take advantage of them.

Have to say, that is a fair summary statement by Grossi as to reasonable expectations for an X-factor unproven raw WR like Charles Johnson.

The three things that separate CJ from other raw unproven WRs with emmense physical and athletic skills are:

1. He's not a rookie.

He's already made it into one NFL training camp, being placed on a practice squad, earning practice squad player of the week honors on a partially torn ACL, another NFL showed interest, after signing him discovered the injury but kept him showing faith in him. He went through rehab successfully.

2. Motivation.

Kid's serpentine route to this NFL opportunity came not only from physical skill and hard work but he had lots of motivation as noted in the ESPN article. Getting kicked off a college squad, leaving school to attend to an ill parent, becoming a parent himself, signing with a smaller school, not being invited to the combine, then the grit and determination of practicing on the torn ACL.

3. Thin venear of competition standing in front of him for a big chuck of playing time or possibly a starting gig.

Right now both WR Nate Burrleson and WR Austin Miles are healthy and are the starters along with WR Andrew Hawkins. He's got his hands full with the other receivers but lets be honest. Austin Miles has had hamstring injuries that have severely impacted his abilty to make it on the field and Nate Burrleson couldn't even make it out of OTAs without breaking his arm, the last in a lengthy string of inuries. So both of those guys have big question marks over their heads in terms of staying healthy even before bringing up Baby Hawk who has also had his share of injuries.

Bonus: Love that tidbit of CJ and Hoyer being the only ones at the facility and making that bond.

Bottom line, he has the physical/athletic goods, the motivation, and not a crystal clear path to a starting job but a path that seems like it open wide.

Now all he's gotta do is show us what he's got.

Come on CJ. Many are pull'n for ya.

 

[ATC1]

(KFFL)Cleveland Browns WRs Charles X. Johnson (knee) and Travis Benjamin (knee) are riding the stationary bike and working on the side Monday, July 28.

 

[msommer]

He's the next Josh Gordon.

Hopefully with a functioning head

 

[Zyphros]

Came home from work and saw 3 articles promoting this guy. Hype train is already out of control. Guy is going to be a 10th round pick by preseason. Don't get me wrong I like him as a flier but it's a little pre-mature to begin naming this guy as the only option (other than Cameron).

 

[MAC_32]

(KFFL)Cleveland Browns WRs Charles X. Johnson (knee) and Travis Benjamin (knee) are riding the stationary bike and working on the side Monday, July 28.

1st padded practice, would be their 3rd day in a row. Wish they'd have sent them out there today and planned to give them Tuesday off with Wednesday a scheduled off day, but, so it goes. Hope they're out there the next time the team is in pads.

 

[steveski]

Trying to decide if I should give up an early 2015 2nd for this guy. I really want him but just seems way too steep of a price. Unfortunately now is the time to buy on him. An early 2nd for him a couple weeks from now could seem like a steal or it could seem like a terrible move.

 

[EBF]

Trying to decide if I should give up an early 2015 2nd for this guy. I really want him but just seems way too steep of a price. Unfortunately now is the time to buy on him. An early 2nd for him a couple weeks from now could seem like a steal or it could seem like a terrible move.

Unless I'm missing something, that's way too much to give up. Guy is a workout monster, but a 25 year old 7th round pick already cut by one team coming off a serious knee injury. I'm not saying there's no upside there, but he's strictly flyer material at this point. Not worth a 3rd round rookie pick, let alone a 2nd.

This receiving corps is pretty ugly, but Cameron is a top talent at TE and Burleson/Austin/Hawkins are good players if they can stay healthy. I suspect the Browns will get by with that patchwork crew before addressing the position further in the offseason.

 

[steveski]

Trying to decide if I should give up an early 2015 2nd for this guy. I really want him but just seems way too steep of a price. Unfortunately now is the time to buy on him. An early 2nd for him a couple weeks from now could seem like a steal or it could seem like a terrible move.

Unless I'm missing something, that's way too much to give up. Guy is a workout monster, but a 25 year old 7th round pick already cut by one team coming off a serious knee injury. I'm not saying there's no upside there, but he's strictly flyer material at this point. Not worth a 3rd round rookie pick, let alone a 2nd.

This receiving corps is pretty ugly, but Cameron is a top talent at TE and Burleson/Austin/Hawkins are good players if they can stay healthy. I suspect the Browns will get by with that patchwork crew before addressing the position further in the offseason.

Thanks for talking me off the ledge. I think I'd still do a 3rd if he changed his mind since most 3rd rounders are flyers anyways, but an early 2nd is just too much. Looking at early 2nd rounders this year and you see names like Allen Robinson, Cody Latimer, etc.

 

[pghrob]

Trying to decide if I should give up an early 2015 2nd for this guy. I really want him but just seems way too steep of a price. Unfortunately now is the time to buy on him. An early 2nd for him a couple weeks from now could seem like a steal or it could seem like a terrible move.

Unless I'm missing something, that's way too much to give up. Guy is a workout monster, but a 25 year old 7th round pick already cut by one team coming off a serious knee injury. I'm not saying there's no upside there, but he's strictly flyer material at this point. Not worth a 3rd round rookie pick, let alone a 2nd.

This receiving corps is pretty ugly, but Cameron is a top talent at TE and Burleson/Austin/Hawkins are good players if they can stay healthy. I suspect the Browns will get by with that patchwork crew before addressing the position further in the offseason.

Thanks for talking me off the ledge. I think I'd still do a 3rd if he changed his mind since most 3rd rounders are flyers anyways, but an early 2nd is just too much. Looking at early 2nd rounders this year and you see names like Allen Robinson, Cody Latimer, etc.

I don't know...as a Gordon owner in dynasty, I don't think he is a bad draft pick of the waiver wire at #36 overall in our rookie draft.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

Not a lot of hard info on Browns WR Charles Johnson at this point but saw this and for anyone interested in CJ or any owners or potential owners, I think you'll like this article that shows how truly rare athletically CJ is compared to WRs who have come into the league since 1999. The phrase 'athletic freak' is used and the metrics bare out that statement.

So far he hasn't done much and he's had to sit at least one practice due to inflamation in his surgically repaired knee (ACL) and this article gives all sorts of disclaimers about tape being the ultimate indicator of NFL success and it notes the outliners who didn't have great metric scores but it provideds really good data where the author built his own a multiple regression formula and the results are very optimistic for any NFL WRs who rank as high as Charles Johnson does.

At the bottom their is a link to the chart showing the results.

http://cle.scout.com/story/1428316-a-metric-look-at-wr-charles-johnson?s=149#/story/1428316-a-metric-look-at-wr-charles-johnson?s=149

Jul 31, 2014 | 05:45 pm

A Metric Look at WR Charles Johnson

Mike Krupka

OBR Contributing Writer

... I have been working with James Cobern and Ryan Riddle, among others, to better understand measurable analytics as it pertains to scouting football players by position, height, and weight.

... there is a large range of athletic variance among NFL position groups. By holding height constant, we are able to arrange each position group more fittingly and compare athletes not just by their 40 time or their vertical, but by how dynamic those measurables really are based on mass. In other words, this tool helps us see how explosive or fast an athlete truly is for his mass. If a 5’10” 180lb man leaps 45”, most would say “that’s amazing” but by the same token if a 6’5” 245lb man leaps 45”, not only is that amazing but it’s truly a more dynamic display of athleticism when considering the variance in each player’s mass.

I can’t claim that these metrics or methods are statistically conclusive but I am working on a multiple regression formula for player data to see what relationships truly exist. That being said, I personally feel there will be correlations and patterns between athleticism and success in the NFL.

... using metric tools like this is an important piece of the puzzle. The combine is important. Numbers are important. In fact, the NFL uses similar metric tools and equations to measure athletic ability. Nike also collects data and tracks these same measureables very closely. Each year, NIKE evaluates thousands of athletes across the country from various age ranges, heights and weights all with the goal to track and gather data around this same idea. Uncovering the athletes. NIKE uses a formula known as SPARQ which is a much more refined statistical formula that provides data with better fit and statistical confidence.

The Data

To better understand why I might have something beneficial or relevant to offer on this topic, it’s important to note that with the help of James I have compiled a database of measureable data, heights, weighs, schools, etc., for every player who completed the combine events from 1999 to the present – this includes 40, vertical, short shuttle, 3-cone, broad jump, and bench press. Plugging this data into my formulas allows me to compare any particular athlete to any other athlete or group of athletes in terms of where they rank on spectrum of athleticism.

... it’s immediately clear from my data below – that this kid is an athletic freak!

In fact, you can see below where he ranks among the group of receivers I selected. Each receiver is within his height grouping (6’2” < ) and when comparing all athletes in this group since 1999 you can see that Johnson’s “scores” rank him in the top 9 in the broad jump; top 17 in the 40; and top 23 in the vertical jump. Then, when putting his numbers into an adjusted Waldo formulahttp://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=439601 for both speed (SPEED) and explosiveness (EXP) based on height/weight ratios, Johnson ranks in the top 17 in both EXP and DYS. I won’t fully reveal the adjustments that were made, but you can reference the original formula above.

I didn’t group or rank the players according to their DET or DAS because I haven’t been able to apply those formulas to my database yet. But what I did do was make bold any metric, including DET and DAS, that ranked better than Charles Johnson’s respective metric. This was simply for comparison sake among this specific sample....

DET = vert + bench + broad jump inches

DAS = (40 + 3 cone + short shuttle) / 3

The next layer to this was that I wanted to look at Sammy Watkins because I wanted to compare where his athleticism ranked on the spectrum. The narrative in Cleveland and across the league is that the Browns lost out on one of the most dynamic and explosive players in the 2014 NFL Draft. .

... it’s interesting to note how non-explosive and non-dynamic Sammy Watkins is for his height when looking at the chart above. I went a step further and layered the ranking, adding Watkins within his height group as well as within the bigger height group – again just for comparison sake. In the end you can see that Watkins is fast for his speed - ranking 16th in the SPEED category – but across the board he clearly isn’t as explosive or dynamic as most claim.

... Charles Johnson is one of the most explosive and dynamic athletes to play in the NFL since 1999 –

at this point, nobody really knows that he can do on the field. Last year was Johnson’s rookie season and the Browns were able to “steal” him away from Green Bay’s practice squad but were never able to see him play. That’s because during his physical with the team last fall he discovered that he had a torn ACL and was shut down for the season. As a rookie in Green Bay last year, and given their depth at WR, Johnson never really got a true look at a roster spot. The opportunity in Cleveland is his first legitimate shot at making a roster and having a chance to contribute – and in a big way.

Recently, Mike Pettine had this to say about Johnson:

"He's explosive," coach Mike Pettine said. "He's a guy that is deceptively fast. He doesn't look like he's covering a lot of ground but he is. I think his catch radius is bigger than most. He's got long arms and he's got (big) hands. He's a guy that we hope can emerge from this as a guy that can help us."

And just this week Lane Adkins shared that the Browns have been very impressed with Charles Johnson’s play on the field and were pleased with all his work in the off season to ensure he entered into camp 100% healthy and ready to compete. The word is that he’s been catching everything thrown his way; he’s been going up, battling and winning jump balls; he’s been running sharp, crisp routes; showing good hands and concentration; and similar to Josh Gordon, those in Berea have described his speed and explosiveness as “effortless”. If this chatter is legit and Johnson can continue to build upon what he has demonstrated so far in training camp, this young man could develop into the dynamic, explosive weapon the Cleveland Browns need.

... LINK to graph of where WR Charles Johnson ranks with other NFL WRs who had similiar metrics noted in the formula:

http://media.scout.com/media/image/135/1356933.jpg

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

sitting on the end of my bench in one league

If gordon is suspended the year, they have Miles (always hurt), Hawkins (smurf like guy) and Nate Burleson who breaks his arm getting a pizza.

Not much in front of him if that knee is healthy, sounds like he is still having issues though.

not a big deal to cut him in september for a different flavor of the day

 

[Bracie Smathers]

The one bit of hard information on the WRs that has come out of camp is that WR MIles Austin has looked like a #1 WR.

He is subject to injury but right now he is the one who is looking like the #1 WR.

Andrew Hawkins has been the most impressive from all accounts but he lines up primarily in the slot.

We still haven't really gotten a chance to see CJ in action but one thing that I glossed over were the comments made by Browns HC Mike Pettine per CJ.

I wrote it off as coach speak and didn't pay much attention but this tidbit caught my eye while re-reading it.

Recently, Mike Pettine had this to say about Johnson:

"He's explosive," coach Mike Pettine said. "He's a guy that is deceptively fast. He doesn't look like he's covering a lot of ground but he is. I think his catch radius is bigger than most. He's got long arms and he's got (big) hands. He's a guy that we hope can emerge from this as a guy that can help us."

A few years ago I had read another in-depth draft article that linked rookie WR prospects success with having large hands.

I remember I read that right before Hakim Nicks came into the league and took a shot on him in a rookie draft and that paid off. Its only one metric but coupled with the metrics listed in the regression formula where hand size isn't noted, that is another plus in Charles Johnson's favor.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Nice little catch and run by Charles Johnson on 3rd and long vs the Lions, almost converted.

 

[werdnoynek]

Nice little catch and run by Charles Johnson on 3rd and long vs the Lions, almost converted.

Showed some nice speed and creativity with the ball in his hands. It was nice to actually see him play the game again... hopefully he can build on this. The WR position seems to be wide open behind Gordon and Hawkins. (Gordon while he's eligible that is.)

 

[Sabertooth]

Kind of on Johnson lately. Anything to see here?

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

May find out tonight. He looked decent on that WR screen last week. I'd imagine the Browns are also curious what he can do.

 

[Khy]

May find out tonight. He looked decent on that WR screen last week. I'd imagine the Browns are also curious what he can do.

Yeah... I'd like to see him get a real chance to do something. I don't understand the point in rolling Josh Gordon out there with the 1st team offense in preseason. He's likely to only play 0-8 games this year and even if he gets no suspension... the talent level of this kid? He has no need for much preseason looks... he can just 'do it'. Why now get Johnson some snaps and see if you can feed him the ball a few times vs a first team defense to see what you have in him.

Imagine if they find out they have something in him and then find out Gordon isn't going to be suspended? All of a sudden they went from having a empty peanut jar for a wide receiver corps to having a really good WR corps with probably one of the Top 3 talents in Gordon and new comer Johnson.

 

[Slapdash]

Why now get Johnson some snaps and see if you can feed him the ball a few times vs a first team defense to see what you have in him.

I'm sure they have there reasons here.

 

[Khy]

Why now get Johnson some snaps and see if you can feed him the ball a few times vs a first team defense to see what you have in him.

I'm sure they have there reasons here.

There's always reasons... I'm always of the opinions though that sometimes we give coaches too much credit and assume just because they're coaches they're making the right decisions. There may be reasons, but they may not be the right reasons. Fact is, preseason is supposed to be for player evaluation. It seems silly to me from a simple logic standpoint to keep rolling out a guy who you a) know everything about, there's no doubt Gordon is a Top 3-5 talent in the league when he's not hot boxing his car b) may not even take a snap this season; when you have young physically talented guys who may just need a chance in the spotlight to shine.

 

[Slapdash]

Why now get Johnson some snaps and see if you can feed him the ball a few times vs a first team defense to see what you have in him.

I'm sure they have there reasons here.

There's always reasons... I'm always of the opinions though that sometimes we give coaches too much credit and assume just because they're coaches they're making the right decisions. There may be reasons, but they may not be the right reasons. Fact is, preseason is supposed to be for player evaluation. It seems silly to me from a simple logic standpoint to keep rolling out a guy who you a) know everything about, there's no doubt Gordon is a Top 3-5 talent in the league when he's not hot boxing his car b) may not even take a snap this season; when you have young physically talented guys who may just need a chance in the spotlight to shine.

I generally agree with you about giving coaches too much credit. Pretty sure you've made this argument several times about others players that I think is fair.

However, this is a 7th round pick coming off a serious injury. It is completely possible that he is not 100% yet or, even worse, has lost a step coming back. Maybe he is having difficulty with the playbook. A lot of possibilities here that could make them prefer to see what other players have.

 

[steveski]

I agree. Coaches and everybody has been talking him up in camp and there's a very likely chance they don't have their star WR this year, so why don't they give him a chance to see what he can do even if it's just for a series or two. That is what preseason is for. Josh Gordon doesn't need preseason snaps even if he does play a full 16 games.

I've already traded for him so it's it's okay for him to break out now.

 

[socrates]

Given the horrible QB play we witnessed, I'm not sure what we can take away from last night's exhibition game vs. the Redskins. However, as a player who needs to impress to earn PT, I was hoping for more than 1 rec. for 3 yards out of Johnson.

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

Given the horrible QB play we witnessed, I'm not sure what we can take away from last night's exhibition game vs. the Redskins. However, as a player who needs to impress to earn PT, I was hoping for more than 1 rec. for 3 yards out of Johnson.

Yep. Abysmal. It's beginning to look like you will have to take a leap of faith if you want to roster him in the regular season.

 

[Slapdash]

Given the horrible QB play we witnessed, I'm not sure what we can take away from last night's exhibition game vs. the Redskins. However, as a player who needs to impress to earn PT, I was hoping for more than 1 rec. for 3 yards out of Johnson.

Was he on the field at all when Connor Shaw was lighting it up?

 

[ROYALWITCHEESE]

Given the horrible QB play we witnessed, I'm not sure what we can take away from last night's exhibition game vs. the Redskins. However, as a player who needs to impress to earn PT, I was hoping for more than 1 rec. for 3 yards out of Johnson.

Was he on the field at all when Connor Shaw was lighting it up?

He was in on the Hail Mary.

 

[socrates]

Given the horrible QB play we witnessed, I'm not sure what we can take away from last night's exhibition game vs. the Redskins. However, as a player who needs to impress to earn PT, I was hoping for more than 1 rec. for 3 yards out of Johnson.

Was he on the field at all when Connor Shaw was lighting it up?

He was in on the Hail Mary.

I believe he was targeted on the 2-point attempt