Common Core Education Standards (1 Viewer)

[timschochet]

None of you guys have come close to answering Buckfast's question. He wants to hear a specific complaint. Not a generalized "states and local communities run things better than the federal government" argument. Not a "this is an infringement on our liberties!" argument (which sounds pretty fringe in this instance, BTW.)

The federal government, and more specifically the Department of Education, has been setting rules and guidelines for decades now. We can always have a larger debate about whether or not this is good or appropriate, but the fact is that there is nothing new here. So that means that for Common Core to be especially objectionable, there should be something specific about it that you guys take issue with- hence Buckfast's question, which was perfectly reasonable. But so far, nobody has been able to answer it.

Has anyone provided a reason why it is superior to the current status quo?

Of course.

http://www.corestandards.org/resources/frequently-asked-questions

 

[timschochet]

Can anyone in here name a single specific thing in the Common Core curriculum that they oppose? Not "we don't want the Feds in our local classroom." Something specific.

"Tell me something you don't like about this, besides your main point."

I'll take that as a "no."

How about, the Constitution specifically prohibits the federal government from involving itself in education?

Really? Is Brown vs. Board of Education aware of this?

There is a difference between civil rights/discrimination and curriculum.

Does the Constitution make that distinction?

I am not an expert, but I think so.

http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/edu/ed370/federal.html

We've had a Department of Education since 1979. If it was unconstitutional, wouldn't the Supreme Court have overturned it by now?

 

[Slapdash]

None of you guys have come close to answering Buckfast's question. He wants to hear a specific complaint. Not a generalized "states and local communities run things better than the federal government" argument. Not a "this is an infringement on our liberties!" argument (which sounds pretty fringe in this instance, BTW.)

The federal government, and more specifically the Department of Education, has been setting rules and guidelines for decades now. We can always have a larger debate about whether or not this is good or appropriate, but the fact is that there is nothing new here. So that means that for Common Core to be especially objectionable, there should be something specific about it that you guys take issue with- hence Buckfast's question, which was perfectly reasonable. But so far, nobody has been able to answer it.

Has anyone provided a reason why it is superior to the current status quo?

For some reason they don't think the burden is on those supporting further intervention to prove it is needed.

 

[Hooper31]

None of you guys have come close to answering Buckfast's question.

You didn't answer my questions. Congrats on ignoring them.

He wants to hear a specific complaint. Not a generalized "states and local communities run things better than the federal government" argument. Not a "this is an infringement on our liberties!" argument (which sounds pretty fringe in this instance, BTW.)

Thanks for labeling me as "fringe". Why would you do that?

 

[Ilov80s]

Can anyone in here name a single specific thing in the Common Core curriculum that they oppose? Not "we don't want the Feds in our local classroom." Something specific.

The billions of dollars it will cost.

Billions?

According to Wiki, much of the cost of this is being funded by the Bill and Melissa Gates Foundation. But I don't know what the total expenditure is. Do you? Where do you get "billions"?

http://watchdog.org/104325/how-much-will-common-core-cost-you/

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20130907/OSH01/309070109/

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED532509.pdf

The costs are falling on the states and local districts.

 

[timschochet]

None of you guys have come close to answering Buckfast's question.

You didn't answer my questions. Congrats on ignoring them.

He wants to hear a specific complaint. Not a generalized "states and local communities run things better than the federal government" argument. Not a "this is an infringement on our liberties!" argument (which sounds pretty fringe in this instance, BTW.)

Thanks for labeling me as "fringe". Why would you do that?

1. Your questions are all very general, and have nothing to do with this specific policy. You could just as easily apply them to the Department of Education, Head Start, No Child Left Behind, etc. Actually, you could apply them to ANYTHING the federal government does. This is not to suggest that your points are necessarily invalid. But they don't address this particular proposal in any way.

2. Sorry. But this is a government program to standardize math and English test scores. Maybe it's a good idea, maybe it isn't. But calling it an infringement on our liberties seems way out there, IMO.

 

[Hooper31]

For some reason they don't think the burden is on those supporting further intervention to prove it is needed.

I don't. I think each successive generation has had it better than each one before it for quite some time. Opportunity abounds for those that wish to take advantage of it.

 

[Ilov80s]

Can anyone in here name a single specific thing in the Common Core curriculum that they oppose? Not "we don't want the Feds in our local classroom." Something specific.

"Tell me something you don't like about this, besides your main point."

I'll take that as a "no."

How about, the Constitution specifically prohibits the federal government from involving itself in education?

Really? Is Brown vs. Board of Education aware of this?

There is a difference between civil rights/discrimination and curriculum.

Does the Constitution make that distinction?

I am not an expert, but I think so.

http://www.departments.bucknell.edu/edu/ed370/federal.html

We've had a Department of Education since 1979. If it was unconstitutional, wouldn't the Supreme Court have overturned it by now?

The federal government does not pass mandated education laws (unless there is a discrimination/civil rights issue attached such as IDEA). They bribe states into adopting their policies. For example, Common Core is not required. Some states have passed on it. Most states jumped in because when Obama announced his Race to the Top money give away (during the recession when school budgets were at their worst), one of the key points to having a quality application was jumping on board the Common Core train. The reality is that very few states got any money out Race to the Top and it in no way covered any of the costs that most states have taken on in their attempt to get some quick cash.

 

[timschochet]

Can anyone in here name a single specific thing in the Common Core curriculum that they oppose? Not "we don't want the Feds in our local classroom." Something specific.

The billions of dollars it will cost.

Billions?

According to Wiki, much of the cost of this is being funded by the Bill and Melissa Gates Foundation. But I don't know what the total expenditure is. Do you? Where do you get "billions"?

http://watchdog.org/104325/how-much-will-common-core-cost-you/

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20130907/OSH01/309070109/

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED532509.pdf

The costs are falling on the states and local districts.

Thanks. The first link debates the amount of costs. The second link is specific to Wisconsin. The third link, however, sets it at somewhere between 5-12 billion. So you're correct.

IF the program is worthwhile, that's a relatively small expenditure.

 

[Ilov80s]

Can anyone in here name a single specific thing in the Common Core curriculum that they oppose? Not "we don't want the Feds in our local classroom." Something specific.

The billions of dollars it will cost.

Billions?

According to Wiki, much of the cost of this is being funded by the Bill and Melissa Gates Foundation. But I don't know what the total expenditure is. Do you? Where do you get "billions"?

http://watchdog.org/104325/how-much-will-common-core-cost-you/

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20130907/OSH01/309070109/

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED532509.pdf

The costs are falling on the states and local districts.

Thanks. The first link debates the amount of costs. The second link is specific to Wisconsin. The third link, however, sets it at somewhere between 5-12 billion. So you're correct.

IF the program is worthwhile, that's a relatively small expenditure.

What would make it worthwhile? How will we know?

 

[johnnycakes]

Can anyone in here name a single specific thing in the Common Core curriculum that they oppose? Not "we don't want the Feds in our local classroom." Something specific.

The billions of dollars it will cost.

Billions?According to Wiki, much of the cost of this is being funded by the Bill and Melissa Gates Foundation. But I don't know what the total expenditure is. Do you? Where do you get "billions"?

http://watchdog.org/104325/how-much-will-common-core-cost-you/

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20130907/OSH01/309070109/

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED532509.pdf

The costs are falling on the states and local districts.

Thanks. The first link debates the amount of costs. The second link is specific to Wisconsin. The third link, however, sets it at somewhere between 5-12 billion. So you're correct.IF the program is worthwhile, that's a relatively small expenditure

.

NOW you're sounding like a real FBG, Tim!

 

[timschochet]

Can anyone in here name a single specific thing in the Common Core curriculum that they oppose? Not "we don't want the Feds in our local classroom." Something specific.

The billions of dollars it will cost.

Billions?

According to Wiki, much of the cost of this is being funded by the Bill and Melissa Gates Foundation. But I don't know what the total expenditure is. Do you? Where do you get "billions"?

http://watchdog.org/104325/how-much-will-common-core-cost-you/

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20130907/OSH01/309070109/

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED532509.pdf

The costs are falling on the states and local districts.

Thanks. The first link debates the amount of costs. The second link is specific to Wisconsin. The third link, however, sets it at somewhere between 5-12 billion. So you're correct.

IF the program is worthwhile, that's a relatively small expenditure.

What would make it worthwhile? How will we know?

I dunno. I suppose we'd have to wait 10 years and do a comparison of states that adopt it and states that don't, and see if test scores have improved, and yada yada yada. And even then people will argue with the results, whatever they are. People always do.

But educators are mostly in favor of the idea, and I tend to think they know what they are about. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and my mother was a credentialed public school teacher her entire life, and I have learned to trust educators when they tell me something is a good thing.

 

[Slapdash]

Can anyone in here name a single specific thing in the Common Core curriculum that they oppose? Not "we don't want the Feds in our local classroom." Something specific.

The billions of dollars it will cost.

Billions?

According to Wiki, much of the cost of this is being funded by the Bill and Melissa Gates Foundation. But I don't know what the total expenditure is. Do you? Where do you get "billions"?

http://watchdog.org/104325/how-much-will-common-core-cost-you/

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/article/20130907/OSH01/309070109/

http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED532509.pdf

The costs are falling on the states and local districts.

Thanks. The first link debates the amount of costs. The second link is specific to Wisconsin. The third link, however, sets it at somewhere between 5-12 billion. So you're correct.

IF the program is worthwhile, that's a relatively small expenditure.

I'm sure communities strapped for cash that you don't live in appreciate your lack of concern about them incurring more costs.

 

[Slapdash]

But educators are mostly in favor of the idea, and I tend to think they know what they are about. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and my mother was a credentialed public school teacher her entire life, and I have learned to trust educators when they tell me something is a good thing.

Yet you have been calling other educators "fringe' for their opinions in this very tread.

 

[Ilov80s]

Common Core Standards: Are they Doomed?

Georgia is the latest state to say no thanks to the Common Core standardized tests....

Oklahoma, Utah, Alabama, and Pennsylvania have also withdrawn from parts of the Common Core State Standards. A few other states, including Florida and Indiana, may not be far behind...Mark Naison, a professor at Fordham University, said that he gives the standards five years to survive.

Common Core Assessment Myths

 

[timschochet]

But educators are mostly in favor of the idea, and I tend to think they know what they are about. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and my mother was a credentialed public school teacher her entire life, and I have learned to trust educators when they tell me something is a good thing.

Yet you have been calling other educators "fringe' for their opinions in this very tread.

If you believe that the imposition of standardized test scores is a threat to your liberties, that is fringe. I mean, how is this even open to question? Slapdash, your view on the NSA is legitimate. THAT really could be a violation of your liberties, even if I take issue. Someone who objects to gun restrictions with this argument, THAT is legitimate. Certain gun laws really could be a violation of liberties.

But standardized test scores? Come on now.

 

[Ilov80s]

But educators are mostly in favor of the idea, and I tend to think they know what they are about. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and my mother was a credentialed public school teacher her entire life, and I have learned to trust educators when they tell me something is a good thing.

Yet you have been calling other educators "fringe' for their opinions in this very tread.

If you believe that the imposition of standardized test scores is a threat to your liberties, that is fringe. I mean, how is this even open to question? Slapdash, your view on the NSA is legitimate. THAT really could be a violation of your liberties, even if I take issue. Someone who objects to gun restrictions with this argument, THAT is legitimate. Certain gun laws really could be a violation of liberties.

But standardized test scores? Come on now.

Common Core is a state led project, it is not the federal government taking control of education. However, it is still stupid and I still do not believe it is in the best interest of schools or students. In five or ten years, the only people that will be happy with how it all went will be the companies that get paid to make the tests and sell the software.

However, Tim, I do believe when you get into dictating the things that a person must learn and when they must learn them, it can infringe on a person's liberty even more than wiretapping or internet surveillance.

 

[Hooper31]

But standardized test scores? Come on now.

The ability to determine what defines an education for your community members isn't a liberty? WTF?

 

[AcerFC]

Good god. I was hoping there would be one "place" where I didn't have to hear about Common Fing Core.

Thanks, Jerk.

 

[Slapdash]

But educators are mostly in favor of the idea, and I tend to think they know what they are about. My wife was a kindergarten teacher for 8 years, and my mother was a credentialed public school teacher her entire life, and I have learned to trust educators when they tell me something is a good thing.

Yet you have been calling other educators "fringe' for their opinions in this very tread.

If you believe that the imposition of standardized test scores is a threat to your liberties, that is fringe. I mean, how is this even open to question? Slapdash, your view on the NSA is legitimate. THAT really could be a violation of your liberties, even if I take issue. Someone who objects to gun restrictions with this argument, THAT is legitimate. Certain gun laws really could be a violation of liberties.

But standardized test scores? Come on now.

I have no problem with you calling my beliefs fringe. It is expected that you will use ad hominem arguments constantly. I a happy to embrace the fringe idea that education is best handled at the local levels, as it has always been.

Just wanted to point out how full of #### it is to talk about trusting educators when you have been attacking their beliefs in this very thread.

 

[vnel8tn]

Can anyone in here name a single specific thing in the Common Core curriculum that they oppose? Not "we don't want the Feds in our local classroom." Something specific.

"Tell me something you don't like about this, besides your main point."

First off, as many have already alluded to, the effectiveness of the Common Core standards is not proven. National standards diminish the autonomy of state and local education officials. http://dianeravitch.net/2013/03/25/should-the-common-core-standards-have-been-field-tested/

Common Core Standards utilize "Mastery Learning" instead of conventional instruction. Not that it is all wrong, but it does not recognize the individual differences and intelligence of the children as with conventional instruction. When the child is doing "Mastery Learning" they are learning objectives, but they are not taught how to think things through. They will have less interaction with the teachers, but more computer time with emphasis only on learning how to pass the test. Competition is stifled, as the students regress to the mean. Here is a joke that I came across-

Standards Based Basketball-Otherwise known as doing away with competition.

Standard:

All players will make ten baskets at the game tonight and feel good about it.

(the basket is at six feet)

All players did make all 10 baskets at the game last night and both teams won.

All players received mastery of the goal. They are all treated to candy bars.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

By all means, lets not look to change something that is working as well as our current education system.

You're on of those people. I get it.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Bottom line for me is that this is just "the next big thing!". I've been around education long enough to know that there's a very big possibility that in 5-10 years somebody is going to come up with something else...and so on.

 

[Hooper31]

Common Core Standards utilize "Mastery Learning" instead of conventional instruction. Not that it is all wrong, but it does not recognize the individual differences and intelligence of the children as with conventional instruction. When the child is doing "Mastery Learning" they are learning objectives, but they are not taught how to think things through. They will have less interaction with the teachers, but more computer time with emphasis only on learning how to pass the test. Competition is stifled, as the students regress to the mean. Here is a joke that I came across-

Standards Based Basketball-Otherwise known as doing away with competition.

This is complete garbage. There is no such thing as "conventional instruction". Further, "Mastery Learning" isn't about removing competition. Its about finding out where students are at and helping them get over the bar. Lastly, common core is about a list of standards. Nowhere does it dictate how you get students up to that standard. You're doing yourself a disservice by posting this tripe.

 

[Mario Kart]

Bottom line for me is that this is just "the next big thing!". I've been around education long enough to know that there's a very big possibility that in 5-10 years somebody is going to come up with something else...and so on.

Yes, it's the talk of the town now so we all must do it.Another popular one is to differentiate for each student. Translation is that it is similar to tracking but we can't "track" students because feelings get hurt.

Same story, different storyteller.

 

[Hooper31]

Bottom line for me is that this is just "the next big thing!". I've been around education long enough to know that there's a very big possibility that in 5-10 years somebody is going to come up with something else...and so on.

 

[Ilov80s]

Bottom line for me is that this is just "the next big thing!". I've been around education long enough to know that there's a very big possibility that in 5-10 years somebody is going to come up with something else...and so on.

It's one of the great tools a politician has. Saying you will improve education, get more kids to college, improve poor performing schools...who would disagree with that? It sounds universally awesome. Then, you can tweak tests and cutoffs to show anything you want since the tests are moving targets. The questions are constantly changed and what is considered passing or not is constantly moved around.

 

[StrikeS2k]

Thanks for labeling me as "fringe". Why would you do that?

It's Tim. It's what he always does. Do you not read his posts? They're kind of hard to avoid.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

And as a middle school History teacher who keeps seeing all this Common Core stuff related to LA an Math this is more of my POV.

 

[LittleLarry]

One good thing about the Common Core is that, theoretically, a 5th grade student in Mississippi should be able to move to Illinois at Christmas time and know - for the most part - what is going on in that classroom.

 

[msommer]

In Denmark we've had uniform requirements for all public and private schools since 1937. It seems surreal to be arguing that it is better to have diverging standards. It seems like arguing that we really are better off having different regions on BluRay discs, one for Philadelphia another for New York and a third for Los Angeles.

 

[Buckfast 1]

Common Core Standards: Are they Doomed?

Georgia is the latest state to say no thanks to the Common Core standardized tests....

Oklahoma, Utah, Alabama, and Pennsylvania have also withdrawn from parts of the Common Core State Standards. A few other states, including Florida and Indiana, may not be far behind...Mark Naison, a professor at Fordham University, said that he gives the standards five years to survive.

Common Core Assessment Myths

Georgia, Alabama, and Oklahoma...pillars of educational excellence.

 

[msommer]

Interestingly, many American expats choose IB Schools for their children (International Baccalaureate) so they have mobility and the safety in knowing that the school to which they send their children actually have standards in education.

http://www.ibo.org/

 

[Mario Kart]

One good thing about the Common Core is that, theoretically, a 5th grade student in Mississippi should be able to move to Illinois at Christmas time and know - for the most part - what is going on in that classroom.

No, schools across cities/states do not have a curriculum set up that little Johnny can walk into any classroom and expect the same thing at all. Two teachers can teach different content, different styles and methods at any time. Common Core's goal is to have student X and student Y know who, what, where, when, why, how (for the most part) of the standards set.Has nothing to do with what teacher X and teacher Y are teaching in week one or week two of school just in case little Johnny moves.

 

[Ilov80s]

Common Core Standards: Are they Doomed?

Georgia is the latest state to say no thanks to the Common Core standardized tests....

Oklahoma, Utah, Alabama, and Pennsylvania have also withdrawn from parts of the Common Core State Standards. A few other states, including Florida and Indiana, may not be far behind...Mark Naison, a professor at Fordham University, said that he gives the standards five years to survive.

Common Core Assessment Myths

Georgia, Alabama, and Oklahoma...pillars of educational excellence.

That really offers a lot to the discussion, thanks.

 

[Ilov80s]

In Denmark we've had uniform requirements for all public and private schools since 1937. It seems surreal to be arguing that it is better to have diverging standards. It seems like arguing that we really are better off having different regions on BluRay discs, one for Philadelphia another for New York and a third for Los Angeles.

Denmark's population is just over half of New York City. Michigan alone has about 2.5x the square mileage of Denmark. Lets not even get into the diversity in culture, race, religion, language, poverty, etc. Denmark is not a real comparison to the US.

 

[Rich Conway]

Can anyone in here name a single specific thing in the Common Core curriculum that they oppose? Not "we don't want the Feds in our local classroom." Something specific.

"Tell me something you don't like about this, besides your main point."

I'll take that as a "no."

How about, the Constitution specifically prohibits the federal government from involving itself in education?

I wonder if these Common Core standards will teach students the meaning of the word "specifically."

The Constitution does not in any way "specifically" prohibit federal involvement in education.

It absolutely does. The Constitution specifically prohibits the federal government from legislating in any area other than those where it specifically grants permission.

 

[parasaurolophus]

I am opposed to the Common Core. When Michigan put in very specific graduation requirements for the state, I was opposed to that as well. The more that can be kept local, the better. Before Michigan put in their state requirements, the school had the ability to tailor a curriculum for each student based on their strengths, weaknesses, likes, and goals. However, with the new state requirements, we essentially have to put all students on the same curriculum. Nationalizing the standards and the testing is only going to make the situation worse. There is no way a parent, student, teacher, or administrator can have interaction or input with the forces driving their education.

Also, I am pretty sure these test scores are going to be a nightmare. All the tests are on the computer. We don't have enough computers for every kid to take the tests. The "hypemen" for Common Core keep saying not to worry and that we will get what we need. Doubtful. This means to do the testing, we are going to have to do it in blocks which means we will lose a week or more every time we test. There are talks about testing anywhere from 2x a year to monthly. This is costing states billions of dollars to reinvent their curriculum. All while many schools are physically falling apart, can't pay teachers, have a lack of technology, etc.

Here is a summarized version of a 7th grade math question:

You have been hired to help remodel a bedroom. Here are the paint color options that the couple like. It lists a few different pains and their price per gallon. It then lists it takes x gallons per square feet and tells you the dimensions of all the bedroom walls. Students must calculate how many cans of paint to buy and how much it will cost. (They have to know on their own that walls require 2 coats of paint and to subtract out the area of the windows).

Then, there is a list of the flooring the couple likes. Students will decide which flooring, how much they need, and calculate cost based on prices.

Then there are multiple furniture options they have to choose from based on price and size. The couple has an heirloom rug which must be in the space so that has to be factored in while laying out the furniture.

Finally, students must calculate a price that they will charge the couple based on the cost of the supplies and the amount of work they have done.

Can you post the actual question instead of a slanted summary? I find it impossible to believe that it didnt list the sizes of the windows and mention that it takes two coats if that was necessary for the proper answer.

Paint doesnt require two coats quite frequently. In fact probably over 50% of the paint jobs I did as a painting contractor only required one coat. It would have to list the sizes of the windows in order to even be rooted in math. I dont have a problem with forcing kids to think logically that they shouldnt paint windows. I suspect it was worded MUCH differently than what you listed.

 

[msommer]

In Denmark we've had uniform requirements for all public and private schools since 1937. It seems surreal to be arguing that it is better to have diverging standards. It seems like arguing that we really are better off having different regions on BluRay discs, one for Philadelphia another for New York and a third for Los Angeles.

Denmark's population is just over half of New York City. Michigan alone has about 2.5x the square mileage of Denmark. Lets not even get into the diversity in culture, race, religion, language, poverty, etc. Denmark is not a real comparison to the US.

So you'd like BluRays to have different regions across the US, the electrical sockets to be different in each city you go to and currency to be different in each community?

Assuming the answer to all of the above is no, then why is it different that the bar for math and English be at the same level everywhere in the US?

 

[Ilov80s]

I am opposed to the Common Core. When Michigan put in very specific graduation requirements for the state, I was opposed to that as well. The more that can be kept local, the better. Before Michigan put in their state requirements, the school had the ability to tailor a curriculum for each student based on their strengths, weaknesses, likes, and goals. However, with the new state requirements, we essentially have to put all students on the same curriculum. Nationalizing the standards and the testing is only going to make the situation worse. There is no way a parent, student, teacher, or administrator can have interaction or input with the forces driving their education.

Also, I am pretty sure these test scores are going to be a nightmare. All the tests are on the computer. We don't have enough computers for every kid to take the tests. The "hypemen" for Common Core keep saying not to worry and that we will get what we need. Doubtful. This means to do the testing, we are going to have to do it in blocks which means we will lose a week or more every time we test. There are talks about testing anywhere from 2x a year to monthly. This is costing states billions of dollars to reinvent their curriculum. All while many schools are physically falling apart, can't pay teachers, have a lack of technology, etc.

Here is a summarized version of a 7th grade math question:

You have been hired to help remodel a bedroom. Here are the paint color options that the couple like. It lists a few different pains and their price per gallon. It then lists it takes x gallons per square feet and tells you the dimensions of all the bedroom walls. Students must calculate how many cans of paint to buy and how much it will cost. (They have to know on their own that walls require 2 coats of paint and to subtract out the area of the windows).

Then, there is a list of the flooring the couple likes. Students will decide which flooring, how much they need, and calculate cost based on prices.

Then there are multiple furniture options they have to choose from based on price and size. The couple has an heirloom rug which must be in the space so that has to be factored in while laying out the furniture.

Finally, students must calculate a price that they will charge the couple based on the cost of the supplies and the amount of work they have done.

Can you post the actual question instead of a slanted summary? I find it impossible to believe that it didnt list the sizes of the windows and mention that it takes two coats if that was necessary for the proper answer.Paint doesnt require two coats quite frequently. In fact probably over 50% of the paint jobs I did as a painting contractor only required one coat. It would have to list the sizes of the windows in order to even be rooted in math. I dont have a problem with forcing kids to think logically that they shouldnt paint windows. I suspect it was worded MUCH differently than what you listed.

I don't have the question, it was presented at a Common Core workshop. It did list the measurements of the windows, the room, furniture options, etc. The question did not tell students to use two coats, but the presenter said it was expected that they did. There was also a budget and some expectations of how long the job will take. Perhaps I am mistaken, but it seems very challenging for a middle schooler. Most adults I know that remodel their house screw this stuff up. Anyway, that was just one example. Most of the questions are still multiple choice. Instead of circling in an oval on a scantron, it's dragging and dropping or pointing and clicking on a computer.

 

[Ilov80s]

In Denmark we've had uniform requirements for all public and private schools since 1937. It seems surreal to be arguing that it is better to have diverging standards. It seems like arguing that we really are better off having different regions on BluRay discs, one for Philadelphia another for New York and a third for Los Angeles.

Denmark's population is just over half of New York City. Michigan alone has about 2.5x the square mileage of Denmark. Lets not even get into the diversity in culture, race, religion, language, poverty, etc. Denmark is not a real comparison to the US.

So you'd like BluRays to have different regions across the US, the electrical sockets to be different in each city you go to and currency to be different in each community?Assuming the answer to all of the above is no, then why is it different that the bar for math and English be at the same level everywhere in the US?

Comparing Blu Ray codes and electrical plugs to education. You don't see the differences?Just because some things are good when uniform and universal, that doesn't mean everything is better that way.

 

[KCitons]

So, if every kid gets the same core education, will every kid get the same core wage?

 

[johnnycakes]

So, if every kid gets the same core education, will every kid get the same core wage?

Now you're thinking 0bama style.

 

[Slapdash]

So, if every kid gets the same core education, will every kid get the same core wage?

Yeah, minimum wage

 

[msommer]

In Denmark we've had uniform requirements for all public and private schools since 1937. It seems surreal to be arguing that it is better to have diverging standards. It seems like arguing that we really are better off having different regions on BluRay discs, one for Philadelphia another for New York and a third for Los Angeles.

Denmark's population is just over half of New York City. Michigan alone has about 2.5x the square mileage of Denmark. Lets not even get into the diversity in culture, race, religion, language, poverty, etc. Denmark is not a real comparison to the US.

So you'd like BluRays to have different regions across the US, the electrical sockets to be different in each city you go to and currency to be different in each community?Assuming the answer to all of the above is no, then why is it different that the bar for math and English be at the same level everywhere in the US?

Comparing Blu Ray codes and electrical plugs to education. You don't see the differences?Just because some things are good when uniform and universal, that doesn't mean everything is better that way.

So what is your argument against standards for math and English?.

 

[timschochet]

Thanks for labeling me as "fringe". Why would you do that?

It's Tim. It's what he always does. Do you not read his posts? They're kind of hard to avoid.

Say fringe things and you should be called out for saying fringe things. I do it from time to time.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

One good thing about the Common Core is that, theoretically, a 5th grade student in Mississippi should be able to move to Illinois at Christmas time and know - for the most part - what is going on in that classroom.

I'm not sure if a kid from Mississippi could move to Somalia and not be behind.

I kid, I kid.

 

[timschochet]

If you want to argue that this program won't work because it's not a good idea, that's fine.

If you want to argue that this program is a bad idea because the federal government shouldn't be involved in education, that's fine.

If you want to argue that this program is a waste of money, that's fine.

All of these are legitimate arguments.

BUT- if you argue that this program is a threat to your liberty, or that it's a way to impose Communism, or that it's a plot by the Obama Administration to bring about the dictatorship (I guess the NSA and gun control just aren't enough, they need Common Core as well), then you're making a fringe argument. And if I've insulted anyone by saying this, I apologize. But it's still true.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

If you want to argue that this program won't work because it's not a good idea, that's fine.

If you want to argue that this program is a bad idea because the federal government shouldn't be involved in education, that's fine.

If you want to argue that this program is a waste of money, that's fine.

All of these are legitimate arguments.

BUT- if you argue that this program is a threat to your liberty, or that it's a way to impose Communism, or that it's a plot by the Obama Administration to bring about the dictatorship (I guess the NSA and gun control just aren't enough, they need Common Core as well), then you're making a fringe argument. And if I've insulted anyone by saying this, I apologize. But it's still true.

Who the hell in this thread is arguing that? Are you setting up your own pretend straw men?

 

[wazoo11]

Bottom line for me is that this is just "the next big thing!". I've been around education long enough to know that there's a very big possibility that in 5-10 years somebody is going to come up with something else...and so on.

Abolish having timed classes and let kids go at their own speed might help for starters.