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***Detroit Tigers thread: 1st pick yet again, this is not fun*** (2 Viewers)

Mike Hessman, who hit 454 home runs over parts of 20 seasons in professional baseball, announced Saturday that he won't play 2016. Hessman, who turns 38 years old in March, hit 433 homers in the minor leagues in U.S. and Canada, breaking Buzz Arlett's record of 432 in August.His fame as a minor-league legend cast Hessman as a real-life version of Crash Davis from "Bull Durham," but he also played 109 games in the majors, hitting 14 home runs in stints with the Braves, Tigers and Mets. He also hit seven more home runs in Venezuela and Japan. According to SABR, only four other players -- all in the Mexican League -- hit more minor-league homers than Hessman. The all-time leader, Hector Espino, had 484.

Hessman announced on Twitter his intention to retire, which J.J. Cooper of Baseball America and Josh Jackson of MiLB.com picked up. After he deleted the tweet (for reasons unknown), Jackson said Hessman confirmed to MiLB that he was retiring, but did not add any details to his original tweet that said: "Time to swap out a bat for a fungo."

Here's Hessman going deep for the Toledo Mud Hens and breaking Arlett's record:

Not having played in the majors since 2010, Hessman had been hinting at a desire to stop playing and to go into coaching in some capacity. USA Today wrote this in August:

He's in his 20th year of professional baseball and his seventh for the Detroit Tigers'Class AAA affiliate. At 37, the physical grind gets tougher every day, and at home, Hessman's 5-year-old daughter is starting to notice he's gone all the time.

"It gets harder and harder to leave them," Hessman says of his wife and daughter. "I'd like to sit down and talk to the family, see what's out there and go from there."

He wants to get into coaching or managing after he's done playing. For now, Hessman sticks to the thankless life of a minor league baseball player. He's beloved in Toledo -- introduced as "King" before Saturday's game -- but five years have passed since his last major-league at-bat.

At this stage, he serves as a mentor for the younger players in the Mud Hens' clubhouse, using his two decades of experience to help them with their journeys to the big leagues.

"There's a lot of baseball in his head," 24-year-old outfielder Steven Moya says.
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Balco said:
Oof. Not sure what tigers are doing. 20 mil for Zimmermann?
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:lmao:

Pretty much everyone thinks it's a good deal. Intermediate term, top of rotation pitcher, about $100 million less than Grienke. Hell JZimm made $16mm in arbitration last year.

Intuitively, Zimmermann's deal seems lower than expected, given his track record of durability and just how good he had been before 2015. That durability is mitigated a bit by the Tommy John surgery Zimmermann underwent in 2010; he's the first pitcher to receive a nine-figure contract following that surgery. But he's consistently been worth three to four wins above replacement over the last five seasons. That's close to the production that netted Matt Cain more than $21 million per season in a 2012 extension with the Giants and Cole Hamels $24 million a season in an extension with the Phillies back in 2013.

Given the inflation in the free-agent market and the fact that Zimmermann signed for only five years instead of the six both Cain and Hamels received, one would have expected a larger average annual value — perhaps closer to $25 million per season.
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Balco said:
MAC_32 said:
Balco said:
Oof. Not sure what tigers are doing. 20 mil for Zimmermann?
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I have reservations about this being a good thing for Detroit given all the other holes, but it certainly is not a bad contract.
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Pre 2015 Zimmerman? Sure.
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2015 Zimm is why he comes at a discount. 2015 Zimm wasn't all that bad either. The risk is that this is the beginning of a downward trajectory and not a floor.
 
No idea what "other holes" they have to fill that are anywhere close to starting pitching. Offseason priorities were starting pitcher of some ilk, bullpen, OFer, and then another starting pitcher. Jzimm not only fills the #2 pitcher role but also replaces Sanchez on the future payroll since this is Anibal's last year.

Seekay>Simon is a free agent, right now he's not a starter nor a bullpen guy for the Tigers

 
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Sure, starting pitching was absolutely a hole. Even with Zimm it still is. As is the bullpen and corner OF. With all that cash committed to Zimm how is the rest going to be addressed? The guys still on the current roster showed last year they need a lot more than Zimm to compete.

 
I didn't know Simon was a free agent.

As for Price I was talking about the total sum of the contract. Price 200 million..

They also need another starter. Shane Greene cant get out lefties. Sanchez cant stay healthy for an entire year.

 
Watching the presser. Mike Illitch is the just the best. Some paraphrased quotes from him: "I don't care about the money, it's fun for me."

"[on winning] it's all I think about. My wife had to pat me when I go to bed "it's going to be alright Mike"

"we've been to 3 World Series, [losing] gets old"

on the luxury tax: "if I think that it's going to bring in a player that's really going to help us I'll go over it. Whoops I'm not supposed to say that."

 
Bojang0301 said:
Watching the presser. Mike Illitch is the just the best. Some paraphrased quotes from him: "I don't care about the money, it's fun for me."

"[on winning] it's all I think about. My wife had to pat me when I go to bed "it's going to be alright Mike"

"we've been to 3 World Series, [losing] gets old"

on the luxury tax: "if I think that it's going to bring in a player that's really going to help us I'll go over it. Whoops I'm not supposed to say that."
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That's just awesome news.

 
MAC_32 said:
Sure, starting pitching was absolutely a hole. Even with Zimm it still is. As is the bullpen and corner OF. With all that cash committed to Zimm how is the rest going to be addressed? The guys still on the current roster showed last year they need a lot more than Zimm to compete.
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You are aware that $47 mil came off the books with the combination of Rajai, Simon, Soria, Nathan, Cespedes and Price. They've spent about $30 mil for the offseason on KRod, Maybin and Zimmerman. That's $17 mil to still go out and get another starter, bullpen arm(s) and possibly another OFer. Not worried in the least. I would like if they got Fister, I would also not have a problem if they got someone on a high risk/high reward 1 yr deal and have them compete for the 5 spot with Boyd, Farmer, Lobstein and company.

 
Bojang0301 said:
MAC_32 said:
Sure, starting pitching was absolutely a hole. Even with Zimm it still is. As is the bullpen and corner OF. With all that cash committed to Zimm how is the rest going to be addressed? The guys still on the current roster showed last year they need a lot more than Zimm to compete.
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You are aware that $47 mil came off the books with the combination of Rajai, Simon, Soria, Nathan, Cespedes and Price. They've spent about $30 mil for the offseason on KRod, Maybin and Zimmerman. That's $17 mil to still go out and get another starter, bullpen arm(s) and possibly another OFer. Not worried in the least. I would like if they got Fister, I would also not have a problem if they got someone on a high risk/high reward 1 yr deal and have them compete for the 5 spot with Boyd, Farmer, Lobstein and company.
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Sure, which is why I wrote I have reservations about this and not I don't like it. I want to see what else is done before I make up my mind about this deal. It's Illitch's $. If he is willing to spend to fix all the holes (2 more SP's, 2 more quality RP's, and a corner OF) then the deal is fine. If it hinders other moves though...

 
K-rod, Maybin, and jzimm is a pretty awesome start to the offseason. Porcello got $20mm a year, Buerhle got $19mm. The price of starting pitching is ridiculous, so you're either in, out, or you sign a bunch of Edison Volquez types for $12mm a year and hope they are good.

They need more bullpen arms but that shouldn't cost a ton, bring in 4 guys for two spots. A LH hitting LF would be great but not absolutely necessary. One more starter is a must but a lot of one or two year options there.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Doctor Detroit, on 30 Nov 2015 - 6:26 PM, said:K-rod, Maybin, and jzimm is a pretty awesome start to the offseason. Porcello got $20mm a year, Buerhle got $19mm. The price of starting pitching is ridiculous, so you're either in, out, or you sign a bunch of Edison Volquez types for $12mm a year and hope they are good.

They need more bullpen arms but that shouldn't cost a ton, bring in 4 guys for two spots. A LH hitting LF would be great but not absolutely necessary. One more starter is a must but a lot of one or two year options there.
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Love it so far. Just heard an interview on the radio with Illitch and he said he does not care how much it costs to build or buy a winner. Including going over the tax.

 
Lots of offseason left and Avila is being aggressive. I think, much like Dombrowski, he'll let us know when he's done. Said he wasn't yesterday at presser.

Another interesting tidbit and probably not important at this point but Illitch was emphatic that he did not fire Dombrowski and that his contract was up and it was clear he wasn't returning to Detroit. He actually did Dombrowski a favor hitting the market when he did.

 
Dombrowski had his strengths but I dont see him as this cream of the crop GM some in the baseball world make him out to be.

The bullpen had been piss poor for a long time. The excuses of "we spent the money in other areas"... dont go with Ilitch's "I dont care about money... I want players" attitude. Maybe it was more so Dombrowski trying to show everyone how smart he was by bucking the trend.. while everyone else was building deeper bullpens, he was pulling guys off the scrap heap.

I think Dombrowski gets credit for Ilitch's working relationship with Boras clients.

What I like about Avila so far.. first he got rid of his son and is open to using Advance Stats information in player scouting. Also signing Zimmerman.. he was their #1 guy on their board. They could of easily overspent to get him, especially trying to land him before really any other big names were signed. They got him at fair market price even though they had to give him a no trade clause for 3 years. I think if Dombrowski was GM Zimmerman would of got a bigger deal.

 
The no trade clause isn't killer. If he gets seriously hurt you're not going to trade him anyway and if he sucks, I doubt they'll want to eat another big contract for another team to take a chance on him. People sort of overlook that these vet deals aren't as detrimental as they seem if done right. Barry Zito had years of awfulness and mediocrity while the Giants won multiple championships.

 
Bojang0301 said:
The no trade clause isn't killer. If he gets seriously hurt you're not going to trade him anyway and if he sucks, I doubt they'll want to eat another big contract for another team to take a chance on him. People sort of overlook that these vet deals aren't as detrimental as they seem if done right. Barry Zito had years of awfulness and mediocrity while the Giants won multiple championships.
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They're not if you develop your own well. Who from this farm system is going to take the next step this year?

 
Well obviously we arn't built from within but Castellanos, Norris, Rondon, Boyd, Famer, Iglesias, Collins, Gose, Moya, Fullmer and Jacoby Jones (once off suspension) are a young bunch of guys who are already on the MLB scene or on the verge of it.

Edit to add: Dixon Machado and Shane Greene (being a forgotten man after his disaster of a season last year).

 
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Mac32 only judges trades at the time they are made and never takes any stand at all on signings or prospects. "He might be ok" or "I have my reservations, but it's a good contract."

Basically the dumbest Detroit sportstalk radio fan ever. " I hate everything but I have no idea why. "

Is it because you know #### about baseball? Magic 8 ball points to #### yes!

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Is it because you know #### about baseball? Magic 8 ball points to #### yes!
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Hot takery overload. Were you at full mast? or were you already http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/722892/south-park-i-just-came-500x375_medium.jpg?

I don't think now was the right time to make this sort of pitching signing because of the other holes on the roster, but I want to see what else he does before jumping to conclusions. I think this signing makes a lot more sense when we're ready to make a postseason push. This roster as is, I don't think it can.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong because I know you have a lengthy notebook on everything I write (stalker), but I rarely comment on prospects outside of their actual production because all I'd do is repeat what someone else already said; I don't watch them.

 
Doctor Detroit said:
Dan Lambskin said:
Bojang0301 said:
Tigers close to signing Mike Pelfrey on a 1yr/8mil deal. http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2015/12/detroit_tigers_starting_pitche.html
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Awful
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Pretty much what was expected after the jzimm signing. Pelfrey was first in the AL in fewest HR allowed, but that's about the best I can do, he's a prototypical 5th starter through and through.
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Does fit better as a 5 than a 4, would rather shuttle him to the bullpen when open dates come up than a younger guy like Norris who would have go to Toledo to stay active.

 
Since they plan on having an all RHP rotation, it's key that they pick up at least one solid lefty to get out other lefties late in games and act as a bridge to the 8th/9th inning closers.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
Doctor Detroit said:
Dan Lambskin said:
Bojang0301 said:
Tigers close to signing Mike Pelfrey on a 1yr/8mil deal. http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2015/12/detroit_tigers_starting_pitche.html
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Awful
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Pretty much what was expected after the jzimm signing. Pelfrey was first in the AL in fewest HR allowed, but that's about the best I can do, he's a prototypical 5th starter through and through.
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Does fit better as a 5 than a 4, would rather shuttle him to the bullpen when open dates come up than a younger guy like Norris who would have go to Toledo to stay active.
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Yeah that could be the case. Tigers have some organizational pitching depth now also so that helps.
 
Will be interesting to see what Fister gets. Not sure they needed to sign Pelfrey this quickly. I get wanting to sew things up, they must like him a lot better than all of us. He did have a great ERA at home and was close to 2.0 WAR last season but historically he hasn't been that good. I just dont understand the two year deal. He wont be an adequate replacement for Anibal and hopefully Fulmer, Boyd and Norris are amongst the staff by 2017.

 
Zimmerman signing seems even better now after Greinke has signed. Dodgers would of been a team interested in Zimmerman, maybe even the Giants. Tigers win by getting him at that amount. Zimmerman might of list out cause I am sure he would of got more.

 
Bojang0301 said:
Will be interesting to see what Fister gets. Not sure they needed to sign Pelfrey this quickly. I get wanting to sew things up, they must like him a lot better than all of us. He did have a great ERA at home and was close to 2.0 WAR last season but historically he hasn't been that good. I just dont understand the two year deal. He wont be an adequate replacement for Anibal and hopefully Fulmer, Boyd and Norris are amongst the staff by 2017.
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Agent probably demanded it, only way he'd sign right now. Why did the Tigers blink? Beats me. It isn't going to hurt the team, but I question how much it will help. He's the type I'd be looking to sign to a one year deal in January.
 
I think Fister and Pelfrey are similar pitchers make up wise. Maybe they could get Pelfrey a little cheaper. I do recall one game he pitched against them last year he shut them down

 
Fister had his worst year by far last year. Even then, his 4.46 xfip is better than Pelfrey's career number of 4.54.

 
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