Fjax MRI results (1 Viewer)

[GroveDiesel]

Full disclosure that I'm a Spiller owner, and either based on that or because of what I saw, my gut tells me Jackson will miss a significant amount of time...But even if he's back within 4-6 weeks, we have a significant knee injury to the same leg that he broke last year. Obviously bones heal very differently than ligaments, but how do those in the know think that combination could affect his performance going forward?

Weird. The few news reports I see that specify a side all do say it was his right knee he injured, but it sure as heck looks like the left one on the video. And I thought the initial reports from Bills bloggers/reporters were also saying different leg than what he hurt last time.

 

[Hawk Fan]

Fred Jackson should tweet his MRI like Foster did last year. My GUESS is the inconclusive part comes from how acute his injury is, and they are probably trying to decide if it is Grade 1 or Grade 2. It makes it harder to grade ligament sprains when there is a lot of edema around the knee. When normal people sprain or tear knee ligaments, they usually don't get their MRI for days/weeks and a lot of the swelling/edema goes down. Disclosure: I am a Radiologist and read Knee MRIs everyday.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Fred Jackson should tweet his MRI like Foster did last year. My GUESS is the inconclusive part comes from how acute his injury is, and they are probably trying to decide if it is Grade 1 or Grade 2. It makes it harder to grade ligament sprains when there is a lot of edema around the knee. When normal people sprain or tear knee ligaments, they usually don't get their MRI for days/weeks and a lot of the swelling/edema goes down. Disclosure: I am a Radiologist and read Knee MRIs everyday.

See that? Information.So Fred could actually get to 3-4 weeks in and be ok, right?

 

[Hawk Fan]

Fred Jackson should tweet his MRI like Foster did last year. My GUESS is the inconclusive part comes from how acute his injury is, and they are probably trying to decide if it is Grade 1 or Grade 2. It makes it harder to grade ligament sprains when there is a lot of edema around the knee. When normal people sprain or tear knee ligaments, they usually don't get their MRI for days/weeks and a lot of the swelling/edema goes down. Disclosure: I am a Radiologist and read Knee MRIs everyday.

See that? Information.So Fred could actually get to 3-4 weeks in and be ok, right?

It's impossible to know. If it is a mild sprain, I don't see why he couldn't be back in 3-4 weeks. After seeing Foster's single MRI image, I was surprised he was able to come back as quickly as he did. These aren't normal people.

 

[Matt Roman]

Yeah, I'm a doctor too and the "unhappy triad" comment earlier was my first thought as well. That being said, there are occasional recoveries that are quicker than expected in the NFL, and there are factors that can help make that happen (no, not stem cell therapy). For example, his prior injury would definitely make him prone to "guarding" his leg during play, mentally, and I wouldn't be surprised if he tightened up all the muscles around his knee the millisecond he got hit on Sunday. I'm reaching, and I do think his value is finished for the season, but I'll hold on to him until the air is cleared.

 

[Hawk Fan]

Yeah, I'm a doctor too and the "unhappy triad" comment earlier was my first thought as well. That being said, there are occasional recoveries that are quicker than expected in the NFL, and there are factors that can help make that happen (no, not stem cell therapy). For example, his prior injury would definitely make him prone to "guarding" his leg during play, mentally, and I wouldn't be surprised if he tightened up all the muscles around his knee the millisecond he got hit on Sunday. I'm reaching, and I do think his value is finished for the season, but I'll hold on to him until the air is cleared.

It looked bad on the field, but he obviously didn't have the "unhappy triad." Sounds like he got lucky with the extent of the injury.

 

[Hoosier16]

Full disclosure that I'm a Spiller owner, and either based on that or because of what I saw, my gut tells me Jackson will miss a significant amount of time...

But even if he's back within 4-6 weeks, we have a significant knee injury to the same leg that he broke last year. Obviously bones heal very differently than ligaments, but how do those in the know think that combination could affect his performance going forward?

Weird. The few news reports I see that specify a side all do say it was his right knee he injured, but it sure as heck looks like the left one on the video. And I thought the initial reports from Bills bloggers/reporters were also saying different leg than what he hurt last time.

Here's a good picture of it. In the video, it looks like it's the left because he's getting hit from the left side, but in the picture, you can see it's the right knee being injured.http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-fred-jackson-20120910,0,3081429.story

 

[Matt Roman]

It looked bad on the field, but he obviously didn't have the "unhappy triad." Sounds like he got lucky with the extent of the injury.

Agreed.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Full disclosure that I'm a Spiller owner, and either based on that or because of what I saw, my gut tells me Jackson will miss a significant amount of time...

But even if he's back within 4-6 weeks, we have a significant knee injury to the same leg that he broke last year. Obviously bones heal very differently than ligaments, but how do those in the know think that combination could affect his performance going forward?

Weird. The few news reports I see that specify a side all do say it was his right knee he injured, but it sure as heck looks like the left one on the video. And I thought the initial reports from Bills bloggers/reporters were also saying different leg than what he hurt last time.

Here's a good picture of it. In the video, it looks like it's the left because he's getting hit from the left side, but in the picture, you can see it's the right knee being injured.http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-fred-jackson-20120910,0,3081429.story

Yeah, I just listened to an interview from earlier in the day from Tim Graham of the Buffalo news and he pointed out the same thing. He was hit on the left leg, but it was his right that buckled. Graham also said that apparently part of the recovery time for an injured LCL is based on where the injury to the ligament occurs. So perhaps that's part of the reason for the inconclusive diagnosis. The swelling could be covering up just how big the tear is and the exact location as well.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Players routinely target unrealistic return dates so take it with a grain of salt, but Fred Jackson said on his radio show that he's targeting Week 5 for his return.

 

[zamboni]

GB all the doctors coming out of the woodwork. This is great stuff to have.

 

[Chazzhawk]

Players routinely target unrealistic return dates so take it with a grain of salt, but Fred Jackson said on his radio show that he's targeting Week 5 for his return.

I agree and I am sure they aren't going to throw him back in there with 20+ touches a game. So you can probably count another 2 weeks of easing him back into game shape. Side note, if C.J. Spiller continues to do what he did at the end of last year and the 1st week this year would they really be that stupid and not continue to give the kid 15+ touches a game?

 

[KCitons]

FWIW, my friend is a doctor and his specialty is Orthopedics. He will be certified to perform surgery in less than a year. We were watching Jets-Bills live and his first reaction was that it was the "unhappy triad". That is a tear of the ACL, MCL, and meniscus. Of course, he might not have torn all (or any) of these, but that was his initial reaction based on his experience.

Look guys, it's not good. The leg was planted into the ground while he simultaneously got hit in the side of the knee. You saw the knee move laterally while it was planted. That is a tear (probably of a severe degree), and I would be SHOCKED if he played before week 10-12 of this season at best. It would behoove FJax owners to trade him for whatever you can get before official news comes out.

Yeah, I'm sure your friend knows more than the team doctors who ran Jackson through a bunch of tests and who have seen his MRI.Just because it "looked" a certain way on tv means absolutely nothing at this point.

No need to get defensive. They can't get a clear read on the MRI because of the swelling. Trying to provide some forward thinking because you might still be able to get a player of value for him right now. I think there is a high likelihood the 3-4 week designation is way low.

Wait, if they can't get a clear read on the MRI because of swelling. How did your Dr friend have such clear insight. Must be one of those new 3D Hi Definition TV's.

It was just an observation based on what the injury looked like. I think in forums like this, it is good to provide as much information and opinion so that people can form their own thoughts. I happen to think he will be out for an extended period of time, and it might be wise to trade him if you can still get a flex starter for him.

You just summed up the problem with this forum. Just because someone has a keyboard and an internet connection, it should still be accurate info. Not just speculation. Otherwise, you end up with threads full of garbage that helps no one.

 

[Air Stich]

FWIW, my friend is a doctor and his specialty is Orthopedics. He will be certified to perform surgery in less than a year. We were watching Jets-Bills live and his first reaction was that it was the "unhappy triad". That is a tear of the ACL, MCL, and meniscus. Of course, he might not have torn all (or any) of these, but that was his initial reaction based on his experience.

Look guys, it's not good. The leg was planted into the ground while he simultaneously got hit in the side of the knee. You saw the knee move laterally while it was planted. That is a tear (probably of a severe degree), and I would be SHOCKED if he played before week 10-12 of this season at best. It would behoove FJax owners to trade him for whatever you can get before official news comes out.

Yeah, I'm sure your friend knows more than the team doctors who ran Jackson through a bunch of tests and who have seen his MRI.Just because it "looked" a certain way on tv means absolutely nothing at this point.

No need to get defensive. They can't get a clear read on the MRI because of the swelling. Trying to provide some forward thinking because you might still be able to get a player of value for him right now. I think there is a high likelihood the 3-4 week designation is way low.

Wait, if they can't get a clear read on the MRI because of swelling. How did your Dr friend have such clear insight. Must be one of those new 3D Hi Definition TV's.

It was just an observation based on what the injury looked like. I think in forums like this, it is good to provide as much information and opinion so that people can form their own thoughts. I happen to think he will be out for an extended period of time, and it might be wise to trade him if you can still get a flex starter for him.

You just summed up the problem with this forum. Just because someone has a keyboard and an internet connection, it should still be accurate info. Not just speculation. Otherwise, you end up with threads full of garbage that helps no one.

I like the speculation. It's possible that Fred Jackson's value will never be higher than it is right now and a gambling fantasy manager might be able to trade him to the Spiller owner for decent value. The problem is that some managers take this stuff PERSONALLY and get emotional when someone predicts doom for their player. The guy prefaced that his doctor friend, who is still working on his certification had a quick reaction to what the injury might be. That pretty much screams: "TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT." No need for all the FJax owners (I also own him in one league) to act like he's ruining the shark pool with that comment.Anyone who saw the hit knew how bad it looked. You didn't have to be a doctor to predict that he was going to miss games.

 

[Mash]

FWIW, my friend is a doctor and his specialty is Orthopedics. He will be certified to perform surgery in less than a year. We were watching Jets-Bills live and his first reaction was that it was the "unhappy triad". That is a tear of the ACL, MCL, and meniscus. Of course, he might not have torn all (or any) of these, but that was his initial reaction based on his experience.

Look guys, it's not good. The leg was planted into the ground while he simultaneously got hit in the side of the knee. You saw the knee move laterally while it was planted. That is a tear (probably of a severe degree), and I would be SHOCKED if he played before week 10-12 of this season at best. It would behoove FJax owners to trade him for whatever you can get before official news comes out.

Yeah, I'm sure your friend knows more than the team doctors who ran Jackson through a bunch of tests and who have seen his MRI.Just because it "looked" a certain way on tv means absolutely nothing at this point.

No need to get defensive. They can't get a clear read on the MRI because of the swelling. Trying to provide some forward thinking because you might still be able to get a player of value for him right now. I think there is a high likelihood the 3-4 week designation is way low.

Wait, if they can't get a clear read on the MRI because of swelling. How did your Dr friend have such clear insight. Must be one of those new 3D Hi Definition TV's.

It was just an observation based on what the injury looked like. I think in forums like this, it is good to provide as much information and opinion so that people can form their own thoughts. I happen to think he will be out for an extended period of time, and it might be wise to trade him if you can still get a flex starter for him.

You just summed up the problem with this forum. Just because someone has a keyboard and an internet connection, it should still be accurate info. Not just speculation. Otherwise, you end up with threads full of garbage that helps no one.

I pretty clearly stated everything I said was speculation. There really isn't much out there in terms of fact right now regarding FJax's injury. This is what people do when there is an absence of fact.. they speculate. We will see how it plays out in a couple of weeks.

 

[LittleLarry]

The guys been a fighter his whole career and it's hard not to root for this kind of player. He's too valuable to dump so soon but not blue chip enough My guess is we won't know anything until the next waiver period has passed for most leagues.

Great post, I agree.IMO he's blue chip enough to hang on to for a few weeks to gain some more info.

 

[robertd52]

As a fan of the game, I'd like to see Fred Jackson come back this season. He never gave up on his dream, even at 26, which is an eternity for a guy trying to a pro football player. The guys been a fighter his whole career and it's hard not to root for this kind of player. As a fantasy owner, he presents a troubling situation. If he's gone for the season, he's gone for the season, these things happen, it happens every year to some players and it's just part of the game ( both theirs and ours) The problem isn't that FJax could simply be a sunk cost at this point, but the longer it stays vague, the longer he holds a roster spot. He's too valuable to dump so soon but not blue chip enough where the upside answers all other questions. ( I.E. it's not like Tom Brady or Drew Brees missing 4 weeks) Every roster spot to me on my bench has value to it. It's an opportunity I can't explore waiting for what might still be a non useful fantasy player ending up 4-5 weeks from now where he would be if you dropped him tomorrow. I'm less concerned about mining trade value for him ( any incoming owner has to ask the same question, what is the value of that bench spot for X weeks?), and more concerned about a situation where what happens 5 weeks from now will be the same answer as today, i.e. that he can't help you. Or he can come back and simply be used as a change of pace/situational back to a newly entrenched starter in Spiller. Or it turns in a dreaded RBBC split right down the middle. My guess is we won't know anything until the next waiver period has passed for most leagues.

This is both the biggest post that said nothing and everything in one single post....

 

[Burgendy]

So in Joe's week 2 players in the news email he states the LCL was torn, yet I've seen no other reports about the MRI results being anything but inconclusive. I don't know how to link an email, so I guess what I'm saying is where did Joe get this info?

 

[shnikies]

So in Joe's week 2 players in the news email he states the LCL was torn, yet I've seen no other reports about the MRI results being anything but inconclusive. I don't know how to link an email, so I guess what I'm saying is where did Joe get this info?

A sprain is a tear. You're confusing torn with completely torn.

 

[RUSF18]

So in Joe's week 2 players in the news email he states the LCL was torn, yet I've seen no other reports about the MRI results being anything but inconclusive. I don't know how to link an email, so I guess what I'm saying is where did Joe get this info?

A sprain is a tear. You're confusing torn with completely torn.

We need to pin this somewhere. Or maybe add it to the "posts asking how to manage your team..." disclaimer.

 

[Burgendy]

So in Joe's week 2 players in the news email he states the LCL was torn, yet I've seen no other reports about the MRI results being anything but inconclusive. I don't know how to link an email, so I guess what I'm saying is where did Joe get this info?

A sprain is a tear. You're confusing torn with completely torn.

Not necessarily, it can be just stretched and not torn. A tear can be complete or partial. Very different than stretched or squeezed.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

So in Joe's week 2 players in the news email he states the LCL was torn, yet I've seen no other reports about the MRI results being anything but inconclusive. I don't know how to link an email, so I guess what I'm saying is where did Joe get this info?

A sprain is a tear. You're confusing torn with completely torn.

Not necessarily, it can be just stretched and not torn. A tear can be complete or partial. Very different than stretched or squeezed.

I thought if it was stretched then it was called a strain?

 

[Jene Bramel]

So in Joe's week 2 players in the news email he states the LCL was torn, yet I've seen no other reports about the MRI results being anything but inconclusive. I don't know how to link an email, so I guess what I'm saying is where did Joe get this info?

A sprain is a tear. You're confusing torn with completely torn.

Not necessarily, it can be just stretched and not torn. A tear can be complete or partial. Very different than stretched or squeezed.

I thought if it was stretched then it was called a strain?

The lowest grade sprain (ligament) or strain (muscle) involves micro tearing of the tissue fibers. The most severe grade involves complete tearing of the tissue fibers. It's a matter of degree, but by definition, a sprain or strain is a tear.

 

[footballnerd]

Jackson said a range-of-motion examination showed his lateral collateral ligament will not require surgery -- a remote concern before the checkup -- and his recovery should happen in the earlier part of the three- to eight-week diagnosis spectrum he was initially given.

Link

 

[TheFanatic]

Jackson said a range-of-motion examination showed his lateral collateral ligament will not require surgery -- a remote concern before the checkup -- and his recovery should happen in the earlier part of the three- to eight-week diagnosis spectrum he was initially given.

Link

This is news? He's 31 on his second major injury inside id 12 montgs. He has a top 10 pick finally living up to expectations and then some. What else is he going to say? "You can find me on the end of the bench after week 9 enjoying Spiller Time with the rest of you."I'm going to say it. This guy rushes back and I would bet he is injured within 2 weeks of being declared healthy and playing again. That's only if the coaches let him see the field....

 

[moderated]

Jackson said a range-of-motion examination showed his lateral collateral ligament will not require surgery -- a remote concern before the checkup -- and his recovery should happen in the earlier part of the three- to eight-week diagnosis spectrum he was initially given.

Link

This is news? He's 31 on his second major injury inside id 12 montgs. He has a top 10 pick finally living up to expectations and then some. What else is he going to say? "You can find me on the end of the bench after week 9 enjoying Spiller Time with the rest of you."I'm going to say it. This guy rushes back and I would bet he is injured within 2 weeks of being declared healthy and playing again. That's only if the coaches let him see the field....

I think there is a much better chance he returns after the bye week then before it.

All players have a goal to return ASAP, fortunately for them most teams medical staffs make them wait until they are actually ready.

 

[footballnerd]

Jackson said a range-of-motion examination showed his lateral collateral ligament will not require surgery -- a remote concern before the checkup -- and his recovery should happen in the earlier part of the three- to eight-week diagnosis spectrum he was initially given.

Link

This is news? He's 31 on his second major injury inside id 12 montgs. He has a top 10 pick finally living up to expectations and then some. What else is he going to say? "You can find me on the end of the bench after week 9 enjoying Spiller Time with the rest of you."I'm going to say it. This guy rushes back and I would bet he is injured within 2 weeks of being declared healthy and playing again. That's only if the coaches let him see the field....

He went back for his check up and was confirmed no need for surgery. Didn't see anything on it. Thought people might want to know.

 

[footballnerd]

Jackson said a range-of-motion examination showed his lateral collateral ligament will not require surgery -- a remote concern before the checkup -- and his recovery should happen in the earlier part of the three- to eight-week diagnosis spectrum he was initially given.

Link

This is news? He's 31 on his second major injury inside id 12 montgs. He has a top 10 pick finally living up to expectations and then some. What else is he going to say? "You can find me on the end of the bench after week 9 enjoying Spiller Time with the rest of you."I'm going to say it. This guy rushes back and I would bet he is injured within 2 weeks of being declared healthy and playing again. That's only if the coaches let him see the field....

I think there is a much better chance he returns after the bye week then before it.

All players have a goal to return ASAP, fortunately for them most teams medical staffs make them wait until they are actually ready.

I agree he could be back after the bye.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

It's useful info. No idea what Fanatic's post is about.

 

[robertd52]

It's useful info. No idea what Fanatic's post is about.

Agreed. This was an update from first link, good post. So curious to see how this plays out....NONE of us know no matter how much people try to say they do...

 

[robertd52]

This #### is about to get real...freaking Fjax is trying to be back on the field in 8 days per rotoworld. I seriously thought we may not see him again for the rest of the season when this first happened....life woulda been a lot easier if that we're the case as an owner of both....

 

[Hairy Snowman]

This #### is about to get real...freaking Fjax is trying to be back on the field in 8 days per rotoworld. I seriously thought we may not see him again for the rest of the season when this first happened....life woulda been a lot easier if that we're the case as an owner of both....

I think they will hold him out until the SF game. I own both and will be starting both following that game. They need him to be a bruiser for that game. Can't get Spiller killed.

 

[Hairy Snowman]

This #### is about to get real...freaking Fjax is trying to be back on the field in 8 days per rotoworld. I seriously thought we may not see him again for the rest of the season when this first happened....life woulda been a lot easier if that we're the case as an owner of both....

I think they will hold him out until the SF game. I own both and will be starting both following that game. They need him to be a bruiser for that game. Can't get Spiller killed.

Besides, Spiller is only getting 15 carries a game anyway. I can see another 10-15 for Fred.

 

[robertd52]

This #### is about to get real...freaking Fjax is trying to be back on the field in 8 days per rotoworld. I seriously thought we may not see him again for the rest of the season when this first happened....life woulda been a lot easier if that we're the case as an owner of both....

I think they will hold him out until the SF game. I own both and will be starting both following that game. They need him to be a bruiser for that game. Can't get Spiller killed.

Besides, Spiller is only getting 15 carries a game anyway. I can see another 10-15 for Fred.

I see what your saying, fact is Spillers value is about to take a big hit. Right now he is a top 3 guy (which is a surprise in its own right), best case with Fjax in mix is top 20.Gailey is too much if a ####a IMO to keep giving spiller the work he needs to assure the kinda statistical games we want out of him. There will be some big ones sure, but I'd imagine we are going to start seeing some sub 10 point games mixed in too (and that's in ppr).Blower...this explains why gaily is laying growing work for saying they will become more of a running team/etc. when they start trying to get each guy 10-15 a game the lanes are going to shrink too...

 

[bolldpt]

so is the inconclusive due to swelling? cant really see whats the deal?not sure if this is a positive or negative for freddy j

FROM WHAT I CAN INFER FROM THE ARTICLE:• They could see (and tell from physical tests outside the MRI machine) that there is damage (tear) to the LCL. The concern is what grade sprain it is. • Given the extent of the damage they CAN see, it's likely he misses 3-4 weeks at least• Once swelling subsides they can take another MRI to see if the damage is grade 3 (complete tear) or just a grade 2. SPECULATION: The fact that 4 weeks is even being thrown out (Combined with sufficient inflammation to obscure MRI results) leads me to believe that we're looking at a grade 2 sprain of the LCL (likely confirmed by play in the joint)... If it's a grade 3 tear IMO he misses a large portion of the season if not all.

grade 4 is complete tear

 

[Chazzhawk]

If Spiller isn't still getting 15+ touches a game after Jackson comes back the owner of the Bills needs to come out of his luxury box and kick Chan Gailey square in the nuts and fire him on the spot. Spiller can't keep it up but he is averaging 10 yards a rush, and can break one on any given play. I see no reason why Spiller shouldn't keep getting his carries and still average around 5 ypc.

 

[flapgreen]

Fred with 2 significant injuries on the same leg in less than a year. I'll take Spiller over a 31 year old rb with a worn out knee any day.

 

[FF Ninja]

This first injury wasn't to the knee.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Fred with 2 significant injuries on the same leg in less than a year. I'll take Spiller over a 31 year old rb with a worn out knee any day.

and now?

 

[RUSF18]

Fred with 2 significant injuries on the same leg in less than a year. I'll take Spiller over a 31 year old rb with a worn out knee any day.

and now?

If it's a 2 week injury as being reported, Spiller will be in my lineup for the Week 6 Arizona game.

 

[coachbobbyfinstock]

Fred with 2 significant injuries on the same leg in less than a year. I'll take Spiller over a 31 year old rb with a worn out knee any day.

and now?

If it's a 2 week injury as being reported, Spiller will be in my lineup for the Week 6 Arizona game.

you will lose rusty. Az D ain't no JOKE!

 

[pittstownkiller]

Fred with 2 significant injuries on the same leg in less than a year. I'll take Spiller over a 31 year old rb with a worn out knee any day.

and now?

Now? Give me some Fred!

 

[rickyg]

Give me some t. Choice in week 4 vs NE!

 

[GroveDiesel]

Fred said today that he'll start practicing with the team Wednesday and that he is 70-75% to play Sunday.

 

[Mr. Soup Nazi]

Fred said today that he'll start practicing with the team Wednesday and that he is 70-75% to play Sunday.

WOOT!!:FJAXowner:

 

[glock]

Fred said today that he'll start practicing with the team Wednesday and that he is 70-75% to play Sunday.

WOOT!!:FJAXowner:

Pleeeeasepleasepleasepleaseplease...

 

[steelwind]

Fjax trending down

Buffalo Bills RB Fred Jackson (knee) said Thursday, Sept. 27, he felt somewhat sore the morning after his return to practice Wednesday, Sept. 26. 'I was a little sore this morning,' Jackson said. 'It was a little swollen. I got in the training room and they did what they could.' Jackson said he will once again take part in practice and maintains that he's not any less confident about playing in Week 4; however, he wonders how much he'll be able to play. 'I'm more disappointed in the way that it feels today,' Jackson said. 'I still want to play and still want to get out there. Again I've got to get cleared by people and that's the goal. I still think I can play and I still want to play. It's just going to be about how much I can play and see what today holds.'

 

[zamboni]

Doubt he's playing this week, or if so, in a limited role.

 

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Still think he is 1-2 weeks from playing

 

[GroveDiesel]

Doubt he's playing this week, or if so, in a limited role.

I agree. The Bills can't afford to have Jackson set himself back another few weeks. I'm surprised they're not resting him today and trying again tomorrow.