HBO - Song of Ice&Fire Series -Varsity Thread - no TV only whiners (1 Viewer)

[(HULK)]

So which character is going to give us the wall POV next book?

Or, is the Wall POV not important?

Worth noting that Cersei didn't have a single POV chapter in the first three books, but became the primary viewpoint for King's Landing after Tyrion, Sansa, and Jamie left.

Now that Tyrion and Dany are in the same spot, is one of them going to immediately die?

Wall POV could easily shift to the Red Woman or even the Onion Knight imo.

He got sent on Rickon retrieval duty in the books, so he's not around to give that perspective, at least in the immediate aftermath of the assassination attempt.

If Jon's proper dead, I imagine Bran becomes the main viewpoint for the North. I don't really care either way as long as it's done well.

Opening chapter viewpoint can and will be someone who's never had one before. That could be at the wall, then short fingers could get back there w/ Rickon in time to do it.

 

[(HULK)]

Last stand against the walkers could easily be at the Neck rather than the Wall imo.

 

[thecatch]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

I agree that I don't think he's dead, but why do you keep assuming only Snow can use Longclaw?

 

[Tom Hagen]

A White Walker POV prologue where he looks at the wall and thinks "damn, I can't get past that" and heads back north would be kind of funny.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

Last stand against the walkers could easily be at the Neck rather than the Wall imo.

They make it all the way to kings landing. Imo

 

[JerseyToughGuys]

Varsity thread about to be demoted to JV with everyone refusing to entertain the idea that Jon Snow might be dead.

Its Martin. The story points to JS being central... but Martin kills central characters like he eats donuts, every day and twice on Sunday.

I'd say its 95% he's dead. Stop grasping at straws imo.

which "central" characters did he kill, aside from Ned, which was essentially a prologue kill.

 

[packersfan]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

I agree that I don't think he's dead, but why do you keep assuming only Snow can use Longclaw?

I don't see any reason for the killers to keep anything associated with Snow if he's truly dead. I suppose one of them could take it and find out later on that it's a pretty big deal but that goes back to my earlier point about there no longer being anyone at the watch significant enough for the readers/viewers to care about now. So why give someone there a significant weapon like that?

 

[Tusken Raider]

Bran in the North.

Sansa apparently in the North on the show.

You don't need Jon to know whats going on in the North.

But if there's going to be a battle in the North with the walkers you need a character of significance to do battle. Seems likely a person who's already fought them and possesses a weapon that can kill them would be rather important to all that.

GRRM could just gloss over the battle at the wall and make it the prologue. Although I presume the walkers can't just climb it. There's some magic keeping them from getting past the border that they somehow need to overcome. I wonder what that will end up being.

My theory (speculation, but I may have read it elsewhere):

Spoiler

The Wall is said to have been built with the aid of magic. To keep the walkers from passing, dragons have been entombed/frozen in carbonite within the wall. Their presence keeps the walkers at bay, and if the Wall collapses, the dragons awake & unleash hell.

Would make for a nice showdown.

 

[packersfan]

A White Walker POV prologue where he looks at the wall and thinks "damn, I can't get past that" and heads back north would be kind of funny.

+1

 

[thecatch]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

I agree that I don't think he's dead, but why do you keep assuming only Snow can use Longclaw?

I don't see any reason for the killers to keep anything associated with Snow if he's truly dead. I suppose one of them could take it and find out later on that it's a pretty big deal but that goes back to my earlier point about there no longer being anyone at the watch significant enough for the readers/viewers to care about now. So why give someone there a significant weapon like that?

There were other people from the Watch that probably saw/heard about the super sword at Hardhome. Even if not, Valaryian steel weapons are incredibly valuable and that's something everyone would be aware of. Someone else would end up with it.

 

[packersfan]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

I agree that I don't think he's dead, but why do you keep assuming only Snow can use Longclaw?

I don't see any reason for the killers to keep anything associated with Snow if he's truly dead. I suppose one of them could take it and find out later on that it's a pretty big deal but that goes back to my earlier point about there no longer being anyone at the watch significant enough for the readers/viewers to care about now. So why give someone there a significant weapon like that?

There were other people from the Watch that probably saw/heard about the super sword at Hardhome. Even if not, Valaryian steel weapons are incredibly valuable and that's something everyone would be aware of. Someone else would end up with it.

Someone else who likely carries no meaningful value to the story at this point. The only person there (if Jon is really dead) who carries any modest value at all to be on the side of good now is Davos and I'm guessing the killers give him the choice of leaving or they kill him. Doesn't make sense for him to join them so I don't see him picking up the sword.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

I agree that I don't think he's dead, but why do you keep assuming only Snow can use Longclaw?

I don't see any reason for the killers to keep anything associated with Snow if he's truly dead. I suppose one of them could take it and find out later on that it's a pretty big deal but that goes back to my earlier point about there no longer being anyone at the watch significant enough for the readers/viewers to care about now. So why give someone there a significant weapon like that?

There were other people from the Watch that probably saw/heard about the super sword at Hardhome. Even if not, Valaryian steel weapons are incredibly valuable and that's something everyone would be aware of. Someone else would end up with it.

Someone else who likely carries no meaningful value to the story at this point. The only person there (if Jon is really dead) who carries any modest value at all to be on the side of good now is Davos and I'm guessing the killers give him the choice of leaving or they kill him. Doesn't make sense for him to join them so I don't see him picking up the sword.

they could easily go after red women too, I mean goody to shoes Jon Snow is gone and well ya know, shes kinda hot.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Ser Alliser takes Longclaw and whips some white walker ###.

 

[packersfan]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

I agree that I don't think he's dead, but why do you keep assuming only Snow can use Longclaw?

I don't see any reason for the killers to keep anything associated with Snow if he's truly dead. I suppose one of them could take it and find out later on that it's a pretty big deal but that goes back to my earlier point about there no longer being anyone at the watch significant enough for the readers/viewers to care about now. So why give someone there a significant weapon like that?

There were other people from the Watch that probably saw/heard about the super sword at Hardhome. Even if not, Valaryian steel weapons are incredibly valuable and that's something everyone would be aware of. Someone else would end up with it.

Someone else who likely carries no meaningful value to the story at this point. The only person there (if Jon is really dead) who carries any modest value at all to be on the side of good now is Davos and I'm guessing the killers give him the choice of leaving or they kill him. Doesn't make sense for him to join them so I don't see him picking up the sword.

they could easily go after red women too, I mean goody to shoes Jon Snow is gone and well ya know, shes kinda hot.

I don't think she's safe either which gives her plenty of reason to figure out a way to bring Jon back from the dead.

 

[(HULK)]

Varsity thread about to be demoted to JV with everyone refusing to entertain the idea that Jon Snow might be dead.

Its Martin. The story points to JS being central... but Martin kills central characters like he eats donuts, every day and twice on Sunday.

I'd say its 95% he's dead. Stop grasping at straws imo.

which "central" characters did he kill, aside from Ned, which was essentially a prologue kill.

Jon Snow

 

[(HULK)]

Pretty sure the Walkers have that horn that the wildlings pretended to have. Bye bye wall.

 

[JGalligan]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

Jon Snow's sword was important and could kill the White Walker because it was made of Valyrian Steel. If he is, indeed, dead (which he isn't ), Thorne is absolutely snagging that #### first thing before Jon's body even begins smoking from the pyre.

 

[(HULK)]

Game of Thrones:

Ser Waymar Royce
Will
Gared
Lord Jon Arryn
Mycah
Lady
Ser Hugh Of The Vale
Jyk
Kurleket
Mohor
Morrec
Chiggen
Lharys
Heward
Wyl
Jory Cassel
Hali
Wallen
Stiv
Tregar
Ser Vardis Egen
Viserys Targaryen
King Robert Baratheon
Fat Tom
Varly
Cayn
Desmond
Hullen
Porther
Othor
Jafer Flowers
Lord Vance
Ser Raymun Darry
Masha Heddle
Ser Jaremy Rykker
Khal Ogo
Khal Fogo
Ulf Son Of Ulmar
Conn Son Of Coratt
Lord Halys Hornwood
Eddard Karstark
Torrhen Karstark
Daryn Hornwood
Quaro
Qotho
Haggo
Cohollo
Lord Eddard Stark
Septa Mordane
Vayon Poole
Rhaego
Eroeh
Khal Drogo
Lord Andros Brax
Syrio Forrel

Mirri Maz Duur

A Clash of Kings:

Maester Cressen
Praed
Ser Burton Crakehall
Barra
Allar Deem
Doreah
Woth
Dobber
Qyle
Murch
Koss
Gerren
Kurz
Reysen
Urreg
Yoren
Lommy Greenhands
King Renly Baratheon
Ser Robar Royce
Ser Emmon Cuy
Ser Stevron Frey
Ser Stafford Lannister
Chiswyck
Benfred Tallhart
Weese
High Septon (Fat One)
Ser Preston Greenfield
Ser Aron Santagar
Alfyn Crowkiller
Ser Cortnay Penrose
Lord Leo Lefford
Lady Donella Hornwood
Alebelly
Mikken
Ser Amory Lorch
Septon Chayle
Drennan
Squint
Gelmarr The Grim
Aggar
Gynir Rednose
Farlen
Ser Imry Florent
Ser Mandon Moore
Lord Bryce Caron
Ser Guyard Morrigen
Maester Tothmure
Ser Rodrik
Cley Cerwyn
Leobald Tallhart
Red Rolfe
Kenned
Ulf
Black Lorren
Squire Dalbridge
Ebben
Qhorin Halfhand
Poxy Tym
Maester Luwin

A Storm of Swords:

Iggo
Ser Jacelyn Bywater
Allard Seaworth
Dale Seaworth
Matthos Seaworth
Maric Seaworth
Jate Blackberry
Lord Guncer Sunglass
Lord Chyttering
Hookface Will
Hal The Hog
Maslyn
Thoren Smallwood
Ser Ottyn Wythers
Small Paul
Ser Helman Tallhart
Tion Frey
Willem Lannister
Delp
Elwood
Lord Rickard Karstark
Lord Monford Velaryon
Kraznys mo Nakloz
Grazdan mo Ullhor
Ser Cleos Frey
Jarl
Symon Silvertongue
Brown Bernarr
Bannen
Craster
Garth Of Oldtown
Rolley Of Sisterton
Ser Byam Flint
Lord Commander Jeor Mormont
Alyn
Lord Hoster Tully
King Balon Greyjoy
Lord Sawane Botley
Kyle
Septon Utt
Bodger
Lark The Sisterman
Ryles
Chett
Softfoot
Prendahl na Ghezn
Sallor The Bald
Robin Flint
Ser Wendel Manderly
Lucas Blackwood
Donnel Locke
Owen Norrey
Ser Garse Goodbrook
Lady Dacey Mormont
Smalljon Umber
Aegon "Jinglebell" Frey
King Robb Stark
Ser Tytos Frey
Ser Raynald Westerling
Grey Wind
Deaf **** Follard
Rast
Young Henly
Old Henly
Dornish Dilly
Magnar Styr
Quort
Stone Thumbs
Ygritte
Oznak zo Pahl
Mero
King Joffrey Lannister
Ser Dontos Hollard
Vargo Hoat
Donal Noye
Mag The Mighty
Ser Endrew Tarth
Ser Aladale Wynch
Red Alyn Of The Rosewood
Prince Oberyn Nymeros Martell
Orell
Harma The Dogshead
Polliver
The Tickler
Watt Of Longlake
Dalla
Shae
Lord Tywin Lannister
Lord Eon Hunter
Lysa Arryn
Petry Frey
Merrett Frey

A Feast For Crows:

Pate
Nimble **** Crabb
Pyg
Timeon
Shagwell The Fool
Senelle
Ser Arys Oakheart
Marillion
Lord Baelor Blacktyde
Ser Talbert Serry
Ser Balman Byrch
Falyse Stokeworth
Dareon
Maester Aemon
Lady Tanda Stokeworth
Rorge
Biter
Lord Gyles Rosby
Lord Beric Dondarrion
Ser Ryman Frey

A Dance With Dragons:

Thistle
Varamyr Sixskins
Stalwart Shield
Hazzea
Janos Slynt
Dirk
Ollo Lophand
Clubfoot Karl
Lord Alester Florent
Kyra
Rattleshirt
Mossador
Ralf Kenning
Dagon Codd
Adrack Humble
Hagen The Horn
Rolfe The Dwarf
Quenton Greyjoy
Oppo
Black Jack Bulwer
Hairy Hal
Garth Greyfeather
Ser Jared Frey
Rhaegar Frey
Symond Frey
Lord Harwood Fell
Yellow ****
Little Walder Frey
Luton
Holly
Barsena Blackhair
Yurkhaz zo Yunzak
Dormund
Torwynd The Tame
Hamish The Harper
Maester Kerwin
Nurse
Admiral Groleo
Yezzan zo Qaggaz
Cromm
Crunch
Khrazz
Rowan
Squirrel
Willow Witch-Eye
Frenya
Myrtle
Ser Patrek Of King's Mountain
Prince Quentyn Martell
Grand Maester Pycelle

Jon Snow
Ser Kevan Lannister

 

[Maik Jeaunz]

I hope they don't actually show Jon being resurrected. just a scene of him walking into the mess hall one night for dinner like, "sup guys?"

 

[JGalligan]

A White Walker POV prologue where he looks at the wall and thinks "damn, I can't get past that" and heads back north would be kind of funny.

 

[packersfan]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

Jon Snow's sword was important and could kill the White Walker because it was made of Valyrian Steel. If he is, indeed, dead (which he isn't ), Thorne is absolutely snagging that #### first thing before Jon's body even begins smoking from the pyre.

That's assuming he thinks it carries any special value beyond what it's made from. There's nothing in the story that indicates he or any of the other killers think the sword is special at all.

 

[JGalligan]

I hope they don't actually show Jon being resurrected. just a scene of him walking into the mess hall one night for dinner like, "sup guys?"

"Can one of you d1cks get me some porridge, or are you going to all stab me again?"

 

[JGalligan]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

Jon Snow's sword was important and could kill the White Walker because it was made of Valyrian Steel. If he is, indeed, dead (which he isn't ), Thorne is absolutely snagging that #### first thing before Jon's body even begins smoking from the pyre.

That's assuming he thinks it carries any special value beyond what it's made from. There's nothing in the story that indicates he or any of the other killers think the sword is special at all.

It's made of Valyrian steel and they all know it. I don't know the exact number, but the ratio of regular steel/iron/whatever weapons to Valyrian steel weapons in the world is probably like 1,000:1.

It's why Tywin was so psyched when he melted down Ice into two swords. They were so rare that the frigging LANNISTERS didn't even have one for a wicked long time.

 

[Buckychudd]

I won money from someone (Scupper?) years ago taking the "Snape's good" side.

I'm in the Jon's not dead camp.

Anyone care to wager?

I'm your Huckleberry.

I'll take the Jon is dead* side.

* dead, but he'll be brought back

 

[Buckychudd]

Last stand against the walkers could easily be at the Neck rather than the Wall imo.

They make it all the way to kings landing. Imo

 

[packersfan]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

Jon Snow's sword was important and could kill the White Walker because it was made of Valyrian Steel. If he is, indeed, dead (which he isn't ), Thorne is absolutely snagging that #### first thing before Jon's body even begins smoking from the pyre.

That's assuming he thinks it carries any special value beyond what it's made from. There's nothing in the story that indicates he or any of the other killers think the sword is special at all.

It's made of Valyrian steel and they all know it. I don't know the exact number, but the ratio of regular steel/iron/whatever weapons to Valyrian steel weapons in the world is probably like 1,000:1.

It's why Tywin was so psyched when he melted down Ice into two swords. They were so rare that the frigging LANNISTERS didn't even have one for a wicked long time.

So again I'll ask - who at the Wall gets the sword that the readers/viewers give a rat's ### about at this point in terms of a potential battle with the white walkers? Ollie? I hope Jon executes his puny ### when he rises from the dead.

 

[JGalligan]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

Jon Snow's sword was important and could kill the White Walker because it was made of Valyrian Steel. If he is, indeed, dead (which he isn't ), Thorne is absolutely snagging that #### first thing before Jon's body even begins smoking from the pyre.

That's assuming he thinks it carries any special value beyond what it's made from. There's nothing in the story that indicates he or any of the other killers think the sword is special at all.

It's made of Valyrian steel and they all know it. I don't know the exact number, but the ratio of regular steel/iron/whatever weapons to Valyrian steel weapons in the world is probably like 1,000:1.

It's why Tywin was so psyched when he melted down Ice into two swords. They were so rare that the frigging LANNISTERS didn't even have one for a wicked long time.

So again I'll ask - who at the Wall gets the sword that the readers/viewers give a rat's ### about at this point in terms of a potential battle with the white walkers? Ollie? I hope Jon executes his puny ### when he rises from the dead.

Thorne. That smug look that Thorne gave Jon as he was dying? That was basically, "I'm taking your Valyrian steel sword, BASTEHD!" Also, I imagine he's going to be the new Lord Commander, and the Lord Commander would get pickings over something like this before anyone else, obviously.

Honestly, if Jon's really dead, I would actually want Thorne to have Longclaw. He's a certifiable badass and will probably take out a half dozen White Walkers before being killed by some crazy general or wighted-Giant or something.

 

[packersfan]

I don't see Thorne emerging as a major character who anyone starts rooting for. In fact, I hope that he's the first one the white walkers kill when they attack the Wall.

Assuming Jon hasn't disembowled him already.

 

[JGalligan]

I don't see Thorne emerging as a major character who anyone starts rooting for. In fact, I hope that he's the first one the white walkers kill when they attack the Wall.

Assuming Jon hasn't disembowled him already.

Well yeah, the guy's a complete tool. But if I were at the Wall when the White Walkers came calling, I'd want Allister Thorne on my six or in a proverbial foxhole with me. Guy's a melee beast and gives zero ####s about pretty much anything other than ####### stuff up.

 

[encaitar]

There has been exactly one major POV character who was killed off and stayed dead. Ned. Every other major death was to someone who wasn't even worthy(in Martin's mind) of being a multiple chapter POV character.

Killing Ned advanced the entire plot. Without that event, we likely have some peaceful resolution and this is a 2 book series that is quite boring.

Killing Jon accomplishes nothing. There is nowhere for the plot to advance to with his death, if he indeed stays dead. Nothing on the wall changes. Nothing in the North changes. Nothing with the Others changes. They have all the same problems, just a new leader to deal with them. A new leader that not one reader will give a #### about.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

There has been exactly one major POV character who was killed off and stayed dead. Ned. Every other major death was to someone who wasn't even worthy(in Martin's mind) of being a multiple chapter POV character.

Killing Ned advanced the entire plot. Without that event, we likely have some peaceful resolution and this is a 2 book series that is quite boring.

Killing Jon accomplishes nothing. There is nowhere for the plot to advance to with his death, if he indeed stays dead. Nothing on the wall changes. Nothing in the North changes. Nothing with the Others changes. They have all the same problems, just a new leader to deal with them. A new leader that not one reader will give a #### about.

I don't really see any of this type of thinking as legitimate rationale for arguing he is alive. I prefer to point to things within the story that motivates character rather than what motivates the writer.

 

[(HULK)]

There has been exactly one major POV character who was killed off and stayed dead. Ned. Every other major death was to someone who wasn't even worthy(in Martin's mind) of being a multiple chapter POV character.

Killing Ned advanced the entire plot. Without that event, we likely have some peaceful resolution and this is a 2 book series that is quite boring.

Killing Jon accomplishes nothing. There is nowhere for the plot to advance to with his death, if he indeed stays dead. Nothing on the wall changes. Nothing in the North changes. Nothing with the Others changes. They have all the same problems, just a new leader to deal with them. A new leader that not one reader will give a #### about.

I don't see how you can say this without having read book 6. It's presumptuous.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Varsity thread about to be demoted to JV with everyone refusing to entertain the idea that Jon Snow might be dead.

Its Martin. The story points to JS being central... but Martin kills central characters like he eats donuts, every day and twice on Sunday.

I'd say its 95% he's dead. Stop grasping at straws imo.

70/30 dead, imo.

When I read the books first time, I was 95% dead. I'm now leaning 60/40 dead. I just don't get the "oh no, he can't be dead" narrative. He may not be, but he certainly could be.

 

[PatsWillWin]

A major battle with the white walkers has been foreshadowed since the opening scene of the series (I'm assuming the books open the same way?). So it would seem that's rather important. We know of only two things that can kill a white walker:

1. Dragonglass

2. Jon Snow's sword

The dragonglass is all gone and Snow's sword carries no relevance if Jon is dead for good. Sam is the only other person who knows how effective Jon's sword is and he'll likely be executed on the spot if he dares go back to the Wall if Jon's dead for good. So a rather significant plot point in what seems to be one of the most significant upcoming parts of the story was apparently created with the understanding that only a short time later it would be rendered meaningless.

I'm just not buying that.

One way to beat the walkers is for there to be a leader who has become something greater who has the power to lead and the ability to kill them. Jon fits the bill perfectly, especially if he's resurrected as something more than just Jon Snow.

I agree that I don't think he's dead, but why do you keep assuming only Snow can use Longclaw?

I don't see any reason for the killers to keep anything associated with Snow if he's truly dead. I suppose one of them could take it and find out later on that it's a pretty big deal but that goes back to my earlier point about there no longer being anyone at the watch significant enough for the readers/viewers to care about now. So why give someone there a significant weapon like that?

It's one sword. Jon Snow with one Valaryian steel sword is not going to defeat the white walkers. If the Wall is attacked by the full force of the white walkers, whether or not they get over/through is not going to turn on one dude with a sword.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I don't see Thorne emerging as a major character who anyone starts rooting for. In fact, I hope that he's the first one the white walkers kill when they attack the Wall.

Assuming Jon hasn't disembowled him already.

Well yeah, the guy's a complete tool. But if I were at the Wall when the White Walkers came calling, I'd want Allister Thorne on my six or in a proverbial foxhole with me. Guy's a melee beast and gives zero ####s about pretty much anything other than ####### stuff up.

Thorne vs. Tormund was one of the better duels in the show. Didn't think Thorne had it in him.

 

[PatsWillWin]

Last stand against the walkers could easily be at the Neck rather than the Wall imo.

They make it all the way to kings landing. Imo

If they get over the wall, then they'll run over King's Landing in about five minutes. Stannis almost pulled it off. There's something called the Mud Gate for crying out loud.

If they get over the wall, what defensive structure can they not take down?

 

[Sinn Fein]

He is dying - not necessarily dead:

“Jon fell to his knees. He found the dagger’s hilt and wrenched it free. In the cold night air the wound was smoking. “Ghost,” he whispered. Pain washed over him. Stick them with the pointy end. When the third dagger took him between the shoulder blades, he gave a grunt and fell face-first into the snow. He never felt the fourth knife. Only the cold …”

Excerpt From: George R. R. Martin. “A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five.” iBooks. https://itun.es/us/3ADrz.l

 

[JGalligan]

Can the Night's King only resurrect dead peeps within his immediate vicinity? Like obviously he can't resurrect someone who dies in, say, King's Landing -- yet. But we do think he's close to enough to where said radius would be able to resurrect Jon? And would Jon be blindly loyal to him in such a case or is it more of a Harry Potter Imperius curse thing where the person's discipline and willpower matter a lot?

(This is purely hypothetical, of course. I don't necessarily think this will be what happens to Jon, was just kind of curious and wanted to hear ya'll mother-f'ers opinions por favor.)

 

[JGalligan]

I don't see Thorne emerging as a major character who anyone starts rooting for. In fact, I hope that he's the first one the white walkers kill when they attack the Wall.

Assuming Jon hasn't disembowled him already.

Well yeah, the guy's a complete tool. But if I were at the Wall when the White Walkers came calling, I'd want Allister Thorne on my six or in a proverbial foxhole with me. Guy's a melee beast and gives zero ####s about pretty much anything other than ####### stuff up.

Thorne vs. Tormund was one of the better duels in the show. Didn't think Thorne had it in him.

Honestly, in a perfect world (or as perfect as a world could be in Westeros, haha), I honestly think Thorne would have made an absolutely excellent Commander of the Night's Watch. Like, obviously not one where you could have a cup of mulled wine with and shoot the shizzle like with Mormont, but like -- the Night's Watch as a whole would have been in excellent hands with him.

Reminds me of a lot of the old-school Commandant's of the Marine Corps in this regard imo.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

A lot of recent talk in here should go to the TV thread.

 

[Mile High]

I don't see Thorne emerging as a major character who anyone starts rooting for. In fact, I hope that he's the first one the white walkers kill when they attack the Wall.

Assuming Jon hasn't disembowled him already.

Well yeah, the guy's a complete tool. But if I were at the Wall when the White Walkers came calling, I'd want Allister Thorne on my six or in a proverbial foxhole with me. Guy's a melee beast and gives zero ####s about pretty much anything other than ####### stuff up.

Thorne vs. Tormund was one of the better duels in the show. Didn't think Thorne had it in him.

Honestly, in a perfect world (or as perfect as a world could be in Westeros, haha), I honestly think Thorne would have made an absolutely excellent Commander of the Night's Watch. Like, obviously not one where you could have a cup of mulled wine with and shoot the shizzle like with Mormont, but like -- the Night's Watch as a whole would have been in excellent hands with him.

Reminds me of a lot of the old-school Commandant's of the Marine Corps in this regard imo.

He can't see the forest for the trees.

 

[JGalligan]

I don't see Thorne emerging as a major character who anyone starts rooting for. In fact, I hope that he's the first one the white walkers kill when they attack the Wall.

Assuming Jon hasn't disembowled him already.

Well yeah, the guy's a complete tool. But if I were at the Wall when the White Walkers came calling, I'd want Allister Thorne on my six or in a proverbial foxhole with me. Guy's a melee beast and gives zero ####s about pretty much anything other than ####### stuff up.

Thorne vs. Tormund was one of the better duels in the show. Didn't think Thorne had it in him.

Honestly, in a perfect world (or as perfect as a world could be in Westeros, haha), I honestly think Thorne would have made an absolutely excellent Commander of the Night's Watch. Like, obviously not one where you could have a cup of mulled wine with and shoot the shizzle like with Mormont, but like -- the Night's Watch as a whole would have been in excellent hands with him.

Reminds me of a lot of the old-school Commandant's of the Marine Corps in this regard imo.

He can't see the forest for the trees.

Right. He'd just burn that mother-f'er down instead. "TRY TO HIDE NOW YEH BASTEHDS!"

 

[Harry Manback]

There has been exactly one major POV character who was killed off and stayed dead. Ned. Every other major death was to someone who wasn't even worthy(in Martin's mind) of being a multiple chapter POV character.

Killing Ned advanced the entire plot. Without that event, we likely have some peaceful resolution and this is a 2 book series that is quite boring.

Killing Jon accomplishes nothing. There is nowhere for the plot to advance to with his death, if he indeed stays dead. Nothing on the wall changes. Nothing in the North changes. Nothing with the Others changes. They have all the same problems, just a new leader to deal with them. A new leader that not one reader will give a #### about.

I don't see how you can say this without having read book 6. It's presumptuous.

Didn't you say you were 95% certain he's dead?

 

[JGalligan]

Last stand against the walkers could easily be at the Neck rather than the Wall imo.

They make it all the way to kings landing. Imo

If they get over the wall, then they'll run over King's Landing in about five minutes. Stannis almost pulled it off. There's something called the Mud Gate for crying out loud.

If they get over the wall, what defensive structure can they not take down?

I think they could eventually take it, but I bet they'd have a heck of a time trying to take the Vale imo.

 

[Harry Manback]

Last stand against the walkers could easily be at the Neck rather than the Wall imo.

They make it all the way to kings landing. Imo

If they get over the wall, then they'll run over King's Landing in about five minutes. Stannis almost pulled it off. There's something called the Mud Gate for crying out loud.

If they get over the wall, what defensive structure can they not take down?

I think they could eventually take it, but I bet they'd have a heck of a time trying to take the Vale imo.

Winterfell's double walls would've been tough.

Eyrie would be near impossible (unless they starved it out and rose those who starved)

Storm's End would prove difficult too. Dragonestone is on an island, so unless they have boats or can walk on the ocean floor a la Pirates of the Caribbean or something.

 

[Mile High]

Last stand against the walkers could easily be at the Neck rather than the Wall imo.

They make it all the way to kings landing. Imo

If they get over the wall, then they'll run over King's Landing in about five minutes. Stannis almost pulled it off. There's something called the Mud Gate for crying out loud.

If they get over the wall, what defensive structure can they not take down?

I think they could eventually take it, but I bet they'd have a heck of a time trying to take the Vale imo.

The Wights probably don't need food or sleep. They make the perfect siege army. If they get pass the wall only dragons and magic stand in their way.

 

[JGalligan]

Last stand against the walkers could easily be at the Neck rather than the Wall imo.

They make it all the way to kings landing. Imo

If they get over the wall, then they'll run over King's Landing in about five minutes. Stannis almost pulled it off. There's something called the Mud Gate for crying out loud.

If they get over the wall, what defensive structure can they not take down?

I think they could eventually take it, but I bet they'd have a heck of a time trying to take the Vale imo.

The Wights probably don't need food or sleep. They make the perfect siege army. If they get pass the wall only dragons and magic stand in their way.

 

[ScottNorwood]

I'm looking to fade some of these Jon Snow death wagers.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

A lot of recent talk in here should go to the TV thread.

Why? We all know grrm wont have the book out before season 6. Talk where u like i say

 

[Gr00vus]

Pretty sure it turns out the Heat Miser is the 3rd Targaryen who ends up demolishing the white walkers.