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Marriage...When is it over? (1 Viewer)

CurlyNight said:
Tick said:
Spanky24 said:
badmojo1006 said:
Peak said:
badmojo1006 said:
How old the kids? 10, 8, 5

Does she work? Yes

Make more money than you? No

Is there someone else? No. She doesn't spend her time going out or doing anything else. Her daily routine is exactly the same, like clockwork. I'm confident there is no one else.

Sounds like you guys are in a bad place and should try counseling at least if you do split up, you can communicate better.

But it looks like it is done. :no: Sorry man
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Ya. Reading over what I wrote, it looks that way. I think counseling will help us, or at least me. Just hard to give up on someone you've known and loved for so many years because they aren't happy with themselves. The part that bothers me is that she doesn't realize that she's taking it out on everyone around her. Or if she does, she doesn't seem to care. :shrug:
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Sorry again. Just remember to keep telling the kids "It is not their fault" keep repeating until they get sick of it. I still see it in my kids eyes a bit of guilt and I have been divorced 13 year.

Also, learn to bite your tongue until it bleeds when talking to the Soon to be ex in front of the kids. Nothing good ever comes in fighting in front of the kids or bad mouthing your ex.

GL
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This.

As a kid who grew up with divorced parents, my relationship with my dad was ruined for many years because my mom bad mouthed him non-stop. Looking back it was all lies and pent up anger that hurt only my siblings and I.
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I had the opposite - my relationship with my dad was ruined for many years because he tried to badmouth my mom. Dude... she's my mom.
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I was 17 when I was put in middle of their ordeal by my dad. My bro was 8. He was using bro as a pawn and making him think my mom is the bad guy. With me I knew he was at fault but had a heart to feel bad for both of them and just listened to my dad go on and cry to me about helping him get back with her, and mom freaking out about how she's going to do it on her own on the other end. Mind you we are talking about an Iranian family where 30 years ago divorce was pretty much only accepted if something big was wrong, not just not getting along. You made your bed and you lay in it was the motto back then. Not so these days but man was it hard when you had extended family from Iran on your back as well trying to get the scoop from me and being told to keep them together. NOT good times and I was starting university too so way too much on me. But I love both my parents and did back then too through all the shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit I was put through and bro the same. Life is too short to hold a grudge against a parent or 2 so both us kids not too long after it was over moved on from it mentally.
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Bless you for sharing this beautiful event in your life. It is simply wonderful you are able to forgive them both and move on.

 
 
NCCommish said:
Peak said:
Reading through the FFA this week has got me thinking, when do you know when your marriage is over? Is there something that just clicked? Is it you, or is it your s/o? Should you try to make it last, or do you just let it go?

My wife and I aren't in a good place. Haven't been for at least three years. No physical relationship at all (no hugs, hand-holding, or sitting next to each other on the couch - obviously nothing above any of these either). We talk about it, but nothing seems to change. I know she's depressed and upset with herself. She won't seek treatment, or talk to anyone about it outside of her sisters. She has a very short fuse and takes it out on me and the kids. I've tried to talk to her about it, but it's no use.

I thought I was handling it well, but it's really getting to me now. I'm even lashing out at people over little things. I didn't recognize it at first, but after reading the "Anger" thread, I realized I'm doing it out of depression. I'm not happy with what's going on at all. But I don't want to leave. I loved our relationship and how we were together before all of this changed. We've been married for 13 (known each other for 18), and it's only been since 2010 or so when this started happening.

We had another fight a week ago which ended with her saying it's not working for her and she's done. I don't turn my back on my family and I won't leave. I told her that we need to figure out what the problem is and fix it. I offered up going to counseling, but she's against it. Instead we sit in separate rooms and avoid each other once the kids go to bed. In front of the kids or in public, we act "normal". In private, we don't talk or notice each other. In a way, I guess it is over.

Regardless, I'm at my wits end. I have tried to make her happy, or be that loving supportive husband and father. Instead, she views me as the idiot who doesn't think and can't do things right. Everyday I think things will get better. But if we don't try, nothing will change. Following my latest outburst with our kids, I think I'm going to see a therapist. I need to talk to someone about this and hopefully figure something out. She's my best friend and confidant, but now it's like I don't know who she is anymore. She's not the same person I married, that I know.

So...is it over and I'm just in denial? I feel like there's something worth fighting for, but if refuses to get help or even try, will anything even change?
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I understand where you are completely. My wife has been diagnosed as clinically depressed. She has extreme anxiety issues. She has become agoraphobic. We had a great thing for a lot of years. She couldn't have kids but that didn't bother me we just got to be more selfish with each others time. We went places, did things and enjoyed a low key but fun life. Then it all started to change. She got sick. The sickness dragged on due to misdiagnosis.Took two years and thousands of dollars to get the right diagnosis. Then took 2-3 years to get that physical problem fixed. Fixing that one caused another. She slipped into depression/anxiety and here we are. We spend a lot of time in other rooms. She only feels fully safe in "her" room. So she stays in there a lot. To the point of eating in there as well. This has been going on for 10 years. There is no real physical relationship. She finds it painful and is never really "in the mood" and I feel like I am forcing her if I press. The lack of children makes it a bit easier but not much. I will say at least with her meds she doesn't have a temper and most of her symptoms are under control most of the time. So we don't fight and we aren't in moods with each other.

I know a lot of folks would leave and no one would blame them. I know I wouldn't. This is so very hard. But for me I made a promise. I don't make many and I stick by the ones I do make. I don't know if she would do the same. I would bet against it actually. But that isn't the point. It's what would I do. And I am staying because I said for better of worse in sickness and in health. I waited a while to say those things and I didn't take it lightly. I am not going anywhere.
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You said yes to what you had then, not this life. You got baited and switched. I have a friend who feels the same way you do. His wife hid her mental issues and medications from him until they were married. Fast forward 15 years and she's cheated on him many many times. He won't leave. Their kids are flunking out of school in 7th grade, he won't cut the cord. He's even getting some on the side now. But he won't divorce her. No. Matter. What. He recently just bought her a house to live in. And helped her boyfriend renovate it. It's ####### crazy. I just quit asking him about it. It's so far beyond the pale that I can't understand it.

It's his life but seeing the damage it is doing to the kids is disheartening. Both kids are over weight and mentally they are behind the curve. They are going to have a tough life ahead of them.

Sometimes leaving is the only right thing you can do.

To me it comes down to a spectrum of acceptable behavior. At the one end is the perfect wife, caring and good mom. On the other end is the worst wife possible, like one who would murder her babies. Every marriage falls somewhere in between. It's where you draw the line that determines where you'll end it. I honestly thing some guys won't draw the line anywhere. They'll rationalize any behavior from their wives. It's crazy to me. They'd prefer to be martyrs I guess.

 
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Judge Smails said:
AAABatteries said:
urbanhack said:
Judge Smails said:
http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/marriage/signs-your-marriage-is-in-trouble-and-how-to-fix-it/ss-AA3cNvf#image=21
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Websites suck these days. There is the headline and then no article or content. Great job yahoo!!
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Click the left arrow in the window. I think the good Judge linked to the end.
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My bad..

http://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle/marriage/signs-your-marriage-is-in-trouble-and-how-to-fix-it/ss-AA3cNvf#image=1
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Thanks for the link. There are quite a few signs in there that reflect where we've been and where we are now. It's been awhile since I first started this thread, so here's an update.

We've found some time to talk (2 or 3 times where it's just us). We both agree there are issues and we both feel that each other needs to take steps to resolve them. That's a good sign, and we've seen a little change over the last few months. Christmas is always a bad time for me as I have typically been on the recieving end of a Christmas Eve argument where we ended the night with her talking about a divorce. This year, that trend broke and it was never brought up. It gave me a little hope that things are moving in the right direction.

She admitted that she is not feeling like herself - she's upset and does not want to think about having a relationship until she loses weight and gets back to "feeling normal". I picked up a treadmill and a fitness class membership for her as she dropped hints about these for the holidays. Both have gone unused. She talks about what she wants "needs" to do, and yet there is no movement.

I have started to lose weight and work out again. I'm down 10 lbs over the last 5 weeks. I'm also seeing a therapist just to get out my own frustrations and talk to someone. I felt that I needed to work through issues on my own and get to a good place. If she can't take the steps to feel better about herself, I can't make her. But I'll at least do all I can to get myself there.

Aside from that, I'm staying involved with the kids and being there for all of their practices, games, lessons, and school activities. Sometimes we go as a family, other times I may go without her. But the big thing is that I'm not giving up and I'm not going to let it impact my kids lives.

The coming month will be telling for me. If she doesn't start doing something for herself - then that will show me a lot about how she views this relationship. We still argue/fight at times - but not as openly as before. As for the checklist from the Judge's link:

You've become roommates - check

One spouse feels resentful - I don't, yet she has hinted saying we have "different priorities" in life

Emotional cheating - I don't see this yet

Zero communication - We've broken this barrier for now. But it was there for awhile

Intimacy is a thing of the past - check

One spouse doesn't care to try - I've been doing what I can, she says she has noticed and will try more on her end (time will tell)

Serial cheating - No, and I don't see either of us doing that to the other

You fight constantly - check

You don't make time for each other - Hard to do with 3 kids, yet we try to go on a date night at least once a month

Your fights go unresolved - check

The relationship is unequal - Alot going on to be thinking "is this relationship equal"; let's get past the fighting and blaming first

You avoid each other - check; it's not constant but it happens. I grew up in a household like this (parents in separate rooms) and I swore it wouldn't happen to my family. It's not to that extreme yet, but it's close.

You constantly feel angry - It's not constant, but there are prolonged times of anger/frustration

You don't feel like there's a solution - I feel like one is there, it's more about the work to get to it.

You try to hurt your partner's feelings - I don't feel this way, and she hasn't openly done this (lately)

You've become enemies - No

Constant blaming - Yes, mostly passive aggressive "Someone didn't follow the directions", or saying to the kids, "Someone threw away your school papers". I always get defensive over this crap because I'm the one who cleans around the house. If I ask for her input, it's always "leave it there and I'll go through it" - when I do this I'll hear later in the week "why is this crap still laying around? I thought you cleaned!" Frustrating.

One spouse acts single - No

The bad outweighs the good - I don't think so, at least not yet. The fact that we've began communicating a little more and talking about what we need from each other is a good first step. It's up to the actions that follow to reinforce that communication. I haven't seen much of this yet. It's been brought up in conversations lately, so the awareness is there.

Constant comparing - No

There are definite signs, but hopefully we've turned that corner to work on it. Only time will tell. If I'm writing this same update by Valentine's Day, then it's a good sign things are trending downward and it's time to move on.

 
Good luck to you. If your wife doesn't care about/ love herself, she cannot love and give to a relationship. Kids may be an exception. I hope you get your resolution soon. Being in limbo waiting and seeing if the other person comes around or not is really tough. Glad to hear you are taking care of yourself and your kids, and what she does/doesn't do you have no control over and just need to go from there as time will tell.

 
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Fight like hell, and not just for the kids or for some promise, but for you and her. If you can make it through this, life will be much better than if you don't in so many ways. It is worth the effort.

 
So much of this thread hits so very close to home - but at the end of the day - if YOU want to "save" your marriage and your spouse is ambivalent - then be prepared for what you are saving being what you can live with - because until it is a joint effort you will only be able carve out existence as opposed to a thriving, healthy relationship. If you find the secret - let us know - I have been married for 25 years and it is still a struggle. I have deemed the struggle worth it - but no one would have faulted me for walking away. Not to say I am the perfect spouse, far from it, but it is a struggle.

 
I shouldn't post this because I should have learned my lesson already in here, but maybe some of you will offer actual advice here.

About 1.5 years ago my wife come off her anti-depression meds. It was a slow process that stepped her down over time but she is completely off all SSRIs (was on Zoloft) and has weened herself off Adderol as well.

About the same time she had not one but two miscarriages, when we had pretty much given up on kids.

Without going into all the details after about a year of more trying we are giving up. We finally had a come-to-Jesus talk and I said I would be more in favor of fostering than fighting nature and trying to have another pregnancy. There's other #### going on but it's regular life stuff: redoing kitchen, should we add on to house, etc. Our one kid is six.

So needless to say with two miscarriages, coming off Zoloft, and the hormone treatments for us to try and get pregnant again it has been an emotional roller coaster. I have done my best to understand but I don't think guys can truly understand female perspective on things like the ability to get pregnant/have kids.

At times things have been bad to where I legitimately worry about her mental well being. Most of the time she says she's fine, just has her bad moments where she cries for no reason. Yesterday she said most days its all she can do to hold it together and not cry hysterically. She's obviously deeply depressed and is considering going back on Zoloft.

I really don't know what to do. We love each other and neither one of us wants to divorce. We've talked about it. But her depression is making our relationship incredibly sad. Seems like the only thing we ever talk about is her mental state and how bad it is. I have asked her to see someone, really to try and deal with the miscarriages, but now she is saying if the person recommends getting back on drugs she will.

When she is on SSRIs she is essentially numb: neither happy nor sad, just kind of existing. I know I can't go back to living with that. On the other hand I know that if she doesn't get better that her depression is going to kill our relationship. I am doing the best I can to stay supportive, but what she said yesterday really freaked me out. She has a extremely low-pressure job, just one kid to take care of, and basically has a pretty cush life. We don't have to worry about making our bills, and there are very few external stress inducers. Yet she is just barely keeping it together on a daily basis.

I love her, and I love our family. I don't want it to break up. But I am beginning to realize that she will probably never be happy. It's just not in her. No matter how good things are for her, she will not only always be depressed but deeply, miserably depressed. And it's hard not to think that the only solution is for her to be in that numb, halfway state where she basically feels nothing.

She is saying this too. I don't know what to do. I love her, but I also want to be with someone capable of being happy.

 
Clifford - that sucks. I honestly have no clue what to tell you other than I hope things get better and she finds what she needs to help things.

 
Clifford said:
I shouldn't post this because I should have learned my lesson already in here, but maybe some of you will offer actual advice here.

About 1.5 years ago my wife come off her anti-depression meds. It was a slow process that stepped her down over time but she is completely off all SSRIs (was on Zoloft) and has weened herself off Adderol as well.

About the same time she had not one but two miscarriages, when we had pretty much given up on kids.

Without going into all the details after about a year of more trying we are giving up. We finally had a come-to-Jesus talk and I said I would be more in favor of fostering than fighting nature and trying to have another pregnancy. There's other #### going on but it's regular life stuff: redoing kitchen, should we add on to house, etc. Our one kid is six.

So needless to say with two miscarriages, coming off Zoloft, and the hormone treatments for us to try and get pregnant again it has been an emotional roller coaster. I have done my best to understand but I don't think guys can truly understand female perspective on things like the ability to get pregnant/have kids.

At times things have been bad to where I legitimately worry about her mental well being. Most of the time she says she's fine, just has her bad moments where she cries for no reason. Yesterday she said most days its all she can do to hold it together and not cry hysterically. She's obviously deeply depressed and is considering going back on Zoloft.

I really don't know what to do. We love each other and neither one of us wants to divorce. We've talked about it. But her depression is making our relationship incredibly sad. Seems like the only thing we ever talk about is her mental state and how bad it is. I have asked her to see someone, really to try and deal with the miscarriages, but now she is saying if the person recommends getting back on drugs she will.

When she is on SSRIs she is essentially numb: neither happy nor sad, just kind of existing. I know I can't go back to living with that. On the other hand I know that if she doesn't get better that her depression is going to kill our relationship. I am doing the best I can to stay supportive, but what she said yesterday really freaked me out. She has a extremely low-pressure job, just one kid to take care of, and basically has a pretty cush life. We don't have to worry about making our bills, and there are very few external stress inducers. Yet she is just barely keeping it together on a daily basis.

I love her, and I love our family. I don't want it to break up. But I am beginning to realize that she will probably never be happy. It's just not in her. No matter how good things are for her, she will not only always be depressed but deeply, miserably depressed. And it's hard not to think that the only solution is for her to be in that numb, halfway state where she basically feels nothing.

She is saying this too. I don't know what to do. I love her, but I also want to be with someone capable of being happy.
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Well you seem to know your problem. You are trying to fix something by putting a ton of pressure on fixing it (always talking about her problem)/ Not only that, if every time she sees you all you talk about is the bad stuff then she will associate it with you. how will she ever be happy around you?

Idk what the answer is, maybe try to find things that make her happy without talking about how depressed she is all the time.

God Bless you both and good luck.

 
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Clifford said:
I shouldn't post this because I should have learned my lesson already in here, but maybe some of you will offer actual advice here.

About 1.5 years ago my wife come off her anti-depression meds. It was a slow process that stepped her down over time but she is completely off all SSRIs (was on Zoloft) and has weened herself off Adderol as well.

About the same time she had not one but two miscarriages, when we had pretty much given up on kids.

Without going into all the details after about a year of more trying we are giving up. We finally had a come-to-Jesus talk and I said I would be more in favor of fostering than fighting nature and trying to have another pregnancy. There's other #### going on but it's regular life stuff: redoing kitchen, should we add on to house, etc. Our one kid is six.

So needless to say with two miscarriages, coming off Zoloft, and the hormone treatments for us to try and get pregnant again it has been an emotional roller coaster. I have done my best to understand but I don't think guys can truly understand female perspective on things like the ability to get pregnant/have kids.

At times things have been bad to where I legitimately worry about her mental well being. Most of the time she says she's fine, just has her bad moments where she cries for no reason. Yesterday she said most days its all she can do to hold it together and not cry hysterically. She's obviously deeply depressed and is considering going back on Zoloft.

I really don't know what to do. We love each other and neither one of us wants to divorce. We've talked about it. But her depression is making our relationship incredibly sad. Seems like the only thing we ever talk about is her mental state and how bad it is. I have asked her to see someone, really to try and deal with the miscarriages, but now she is saying if the person recommends getting back on drugs she will.

When she is on SSRIs she is essentially numb: neither happy nor sad, just kind of existing. I know I can't go back to living with that. On the other hand I know that if she doesn't get better that her depression is going to kill our relationship. I am doing the best I can to stay supportive, but what she said yesterday really freaked me out. She has a extremely low-pressure job, just one kid to take care of, and basically has a pretty cush life. We don't have to worry about making our bills, and there are very few external stress inducers. Yet she is just barely keeping it together on a daily basis.

I love her, and I love our family. I don't want it to break up. But I am beginning to realize that she will probably never be happy. It's just not in her. No matter how good things are for her, she will not only always be depressed but deeply, miserably depressed. And it's hard not to think that the only solution is for her to be in that numb, halfway state where she basically feels nothing.

She is saying this too. I don't know what to do. I love her, but I also want to be with someone capable of being happy.
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I know exactly what you are talking about there... that's me you're describing, as well as your wife. I am just hoping my shrink can find a med that will allow me to feel better. it ain't easy, but he one thing that holds me together is my wife's commitment to the marriage... it is stronger than my commitment to my own life.

It's this kind of crap that makes one realize what is really important in life. Hang in there... change shrinks if you have to... be supportive, not criticizing. She is probably doing the best she can, even if not good enough in your eyes. If she's like me, she really, really needs you... but she needs your support most of all, not your criticism.

It ain't easy. In sickness and in health...

 
Clifford said:
I shouldn't post this because I should have learned my lesson already in here, but maybe some of you will offer actual advice here.

About 1.5 years ago my wife come off her anti-depression meds. It was a slow process that stepped her down over time but she is completely off all SSRIs (was on Zoloft) and has weened herself off Adderol as well.

About the same time she had not one but two miscarriages, when we had pretty much given up on kids.

Without going into all the details after about a year of more trying we are giving up. We finally had a come-to-Jesus talk and I said I would be more in favor of fostering than fighting nature and trying to have another pregnancy. There's other #### going on but it's regular life stuff: redoing kitchen, should we add on to house, etc. Our one kid is six.

So needless to say with two miscarriages, coming off Zoloft, and the hormone treatments for us to try and get pregnant again it has been an emotional roller coaster. I have done my best to understand but I don't think guys can truly understand female perspective on things like the ability to get pregnant/have kids.

At times things have been bad to where I legitimately worry about her mental well being. Most of the time she says she's fine, just has her bad moments where she cries for no reason. Yesterday she said most days its all she can do to hold it together and not cry hysterically. She's obviously deeply depressed and is considering going back on Zoloft.

I really don't know what to do. We love each other and neither one of us wants to divorce. We've talked about it. But her depression is making our relationship incredibly sad. Seems like the only thing we ever talk about is her mental state and how bad it is. I have asked her to see someone, really to try and deal with the miscarriages, but now she is saying if the person recommends getting back on drugs she will.

When she is on SSRIs she is essentially numb: neither happy nor sad, just kind of existing. I know I can't go back to living with that. On the other hand I know that if she doesn't get better that her depression is going to kill our relationship. I am doing the best I can to stay supportive, but what she said yesterday really freaked me out. She has a extremely low-pressure job, just one kid to take care of, and basically has a pretty cush life. We don't have to worry about making our bills, and there are very few external stress inducers. Yet she is just barely keeping it together on a daily basis.

I love her, and I love our family. I don't want it to break up. But I am beginning to realize that she will probably never be happy. It's just not in her. No matter how good things are for her, she will not only always be depressed but deeply, miserably depressed. And it's hard not to think that the only solution is for her to be in that numb, halfway state where she basically feels nothing.

She is saying this too. I don't know what to do. I love her, but I also want to be with someone capable of being happy.
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That's tough man. I honestly don't know what I'd do in that situation.

 
Man, there are some good people around here. It is impressive how committed and patient you guys are. Lots of good advice too. Best wishes to all of you who are walking down this challenging path.

 
She was on SSRIs when I met her, but basically fun to be around. Occasional bouts of being blue but nothing like what has been going on lately because the SSRIs basically deadened her emotions.

 
Sorry to hear about your situation Clifford. Wish you the best.

I'm in the middle of a divorce and my STBX has been on meds and seeing psychiatrists for years. Not depression but irrational anxiety/fear. I lived with it for years but eventually realized her way of living was making me and my kids sick and I also realized she was never going to get better. It has led to an extremely high conflict divorce that I wouldn't wish on anyone. If there is any way you can stick it out and you think she also wants to, then I recommend doing so. A high conflict divorce is a tremendous amount of stress and pain.

In my case I'm glad I filed because she was going to divorce me once she got to the 10 year mark and was just stringing me along. There's an indication when you know it's over... After 9 years of marriage one night you suggest it would be better if we are divorced and she never tries to stop you or convince you otherwise. Just goes immediately into battle.

 
Clifford said:
She was on SSRIs when I met her, but basically fun to be around. Occasional bouts of being blue but nothing like what has been going on lately because the SSRIs basically deadened her emotions.
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Man that sucks, sorry to hear. I am taking care of my 37 y/o cousin who has severe depression and anxiety. She is in bed most of the day. She just got on SS disability which helps me and my SO to support her. It is quite a task and I applaud those who stick it out. But it is very draining and you do need a break from time to time or you'll be dragged down too.

The drug zoloft sends shivers down my spine. This med sent my cousin into horrible side effects to where she thought she was going to die. She described the feeling of power surges going through her body from tip of her head to toe. This was before I took her in my home. She called me frantic that she was dying in middle of the night. I couldn't get her to her dr fast enough and then to change her meds. She is one that simply needs it to be able to not kill herself. It's tragic and I don't love doling out her meds and watching her take them every day because she may not if I don't keep a vigil, but I'd rather have her alive and somewhat functioning than to possibly kill herself.

As for your wife, she just may be one that needs another med. Many people do and there's nothing wrong with being one of those. Maybe she should try another AD along with therapy. It can be quite a task finding one that has the least side effects and works well with you. It's a long list of what we tried with my cousin until we found so far the best we can for her. She is pretty far gone as far as functioning or therapy would be part of the plan too. Hopefully some day.

And a med that has been working for years can suddenly not work. Has she tried more than just zoloft? She should get back with her dr if she hasn't already to talk about what's happening now. It can take time to find something else that works but at least for her sake alone, she really should try something else imo but of course that's up to you guys. I've seen how things can spiral being in a family full of MI on my dad's side and it pains me much less the person in pain.

Best wishes to you and her. I feel your pain.

 
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Clifford said:
She was on SSRIs when I met her, but basically fun to be around. Occasional bouts of being blue but nothing like what has been going on lately because the SSRIs basically deadened her emotions.
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Did her psychiatrist support the decision?

 
Cliff:

I don't know if you've read the Suicide thread or not but there is some great info and resources in there about people tackling major depression and anxiety that may be helpful for your wife..

 
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Agree with others recommending to try different SSRI's. They are all a little different. I went through several before finding the one for me.

 
Counseling provided better clarity in my situation. You can learn a lot from counseling. But the key is to give it time, to see the therapist multiple times to sort through the 'he said/she said' and allow the therapist to really see what's going on.

I always suspected something was off regarding my ex's thought process, but it was the first therapist that diagnosed her with BPD. The second counselor over half a year later confirmed a PD diagnosis. For the prior year I had been following a lot of what BostonFred preached earlier in the thread, about being a better husband and hoping to break down any barriers of resentment. But mentally ill people are not likely to recognize such efforts...or they recognize them one day and forget them the next. Sometimes there's something deeper going on that has nothing to do with you. But I would have never got this without that counseling.

I would never say it's over without getting outside help. I think you owe it to each other and the vow you made to do that.

 
Thanks to all for advice. Took a bit of advice thrown in earlier and have just tried to be there, be around, make her comfortable. But we did have a big talk where I voiced my concerns.

Essentially the miscarriages caused trauma she has not dealt with. She, in her mind, has made getting pregnant again the cure-all, and being happier was completely dependent on that. I have said throughout that I think the miscarriages were a sign that we should not be having any more kids.

While I thought we were in agreement about not getting into IVF and all the hormone treatments she would have to take to carry the baby. We apparently are not. She said yesterday she is devastated we are not going through with IVF and sees me as the reason we are not. Therefore, in her mind, I am the only thing standing between her and having a baby, even though we have been trying for 4+ years together. And since she has made having a baby synonymous with happiness, in her mind I am the only thing standing between her and being happy.

I think she knows this is completely illogical, but I'm not sure it matters. She believes in a bunch of flaky bull#### about positive thought and I don't. I've been very open about the fact that I don't think any amount of hormone therapy or anything will help us get pregnant and yesterday she said that I didn't "believe in her" and that I don't want another baby.

Truth is I don't really want another baby, but I do want my child to have a sibling so I have gone along, scared ####less we would be successful. But I also recognize that logical thought will never tell me to go have another baby. So I was kind of trying to throw my misgivings out the window and hope I was wrong.

The fact that I don't want one as bad as she does, and don't see it as something we must do at all costs, has really driven us apart. We have had major problems throughout the marriage just getting along and remaining attracted to each other, but things were actually getting way better when she came off SSRIs. But now things seem almost irreparable because of the whole second baby question.

I don't think there's anything wrong about not wanting to pull out all the stops to have a second child. I don't view it as imperative to my or even my son's happiness. She views not having one as something akin to the end of everything. She thinks we are cursing our child to a life of loneliness because he will be without a sibling, and thinks our family and her life is incomplete without a second child. Weird part is she is an only child, her mother was an only child, and her grandmother was an only child. Furthermore my father is an only child.

Anyway just trying to be supportive and understanding. Thanks for all the advice.

 
No advice for you Clifford, but hope this all works out for you. Those drugs are no joke and I hope she can find her way without them long term with or without additional children.

 
17seconds said:
Sorry to hear about your situation Clifford. Wish you the best.

I'm in the middle of a divorce and my STBX has been on meds and seeing psychiatrists for years. Not depression but irrational anxiety/fear. I lived with it for years but eventually realized her way of living was making me and my kids sick and I also realized she was never going to get better. It has led to an extremely high conflict divorce that I wouldn't wish on anyone. If there is any way you can stick it out and you think she also wants to, then I recommend doing so. A high conflict divorce is a tremendous amount of stress and pain.

In my case I'm glad I filed because she was going to divorce me once she got to the 10 year mark and was just stringing me along. There's an indication when you know it's over... After 9 years of marriage one night you suggest it would be better if we are divorced and she never tries to stop you or convince you otherwise. Just goes immediately into battle.
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Sorry you couldn't help her, but at a certain point, you have to think about yourself and your kids. GL and GB

 
Cliff:

I don't know your wife obviously but being a woman myself and saying something to this effect (my issue will for sure end if this happens so it must happen), it won't. It sounds to me like there are other issues she is having. You have another child and her core issues are not resolved will just make her even more stressed/anxious/depressed imo. Maybe I missed it but if she's never been to therapy for the miscarriage trauma she's experienced, she really should start there, and perhaps seek out finding a better med for her to help her as she goes through this process.

 
Hey Curly, thanks, I have been pushing her to seek therapy just for the miscarriages since they happened. She has always resisted saying that every woman goes through what she is going through, and that a therapist would just try to get her back on the meds she just worked to get off.

Now she has finally agreed to see a therapist about the miscarriages. Today she said she is so tired and sad and feels like she can't take it anymore. Obviously this worries me a lot. I am suggesting options for emergency psychiatric treatment but also saying I don't know how bad it is.

I have also repeated time and time again what you have said: having another child won't make her happy. It won't solve the depression. And its probably not the best thing for anyone to add another child to the situation now.

Unfortunately she was raised to believe in the "power of positive thinking" and has convinced herself that she can and will have another child, and is now crushed by the fact that she won't. She told me flat out she has put all her energy and focus into having another baby and that she firmly believes not having one is causing her depression and having one will cure it.

 
I think it's totally normal to have depression at the end of fertility window with miscarriages in the mix. Not to say this is easy to get over, but a counselor should be able to guide you through lots of experience in dealing with it. I would also assume that there are numerous support groups out there for this exact situation.

 
Cliff:

Wow, that is tough. Yeah positive thinking is great but she's got it on the extreme and that is so unhealthy. She definitely cannot do this on her own and the sooner she seeks help, the better it will be for you both. I suggest too if you haven't seeked therapy that it may benefit you as well. Your doing "ok" now but speaking from experience from dealing with my cousin's severe case going on 6 years now, you must take care of yourself first. Don't lose sight of yourself for you won't be a hero for her so to speak if you go down as well. Does she have friends? Does she go out with anyone other than you? Being cooped up in the house is THE worst thing. Unfortunately for my cousin she is agoraphobic as well so she is welled up in here, but get her out. Hopefully she hasn't gotten to where absolutely nothing sounds good, but I fear that it sounds like we're there already.

Culdeus has a great idea: support group therapy for women in her shoes. If anything she can at least talk about it with other like women in her shoes. It just sounds to me like she really needs to find the right med. The one she was on obviously is a big no, but like was mentioned before, not all SSRIs will give the same effect. Unfortunately it's a massive trial and error, and one worth the undertaking imo.

Such massive depression and anxiety (which if you have one, you have the other to some extent) is also very painful, sometimes leading to physical symptoms. My cousin has burning sensations on the right side of her body. I've taken her to all kinds of docs, she's taken some meds for it, and it all boiled down to her major depression/anxiety as the root cause so nothing can fix that but to reduce that.

Too bad you aren't in the UK or AU. They actually have hotlines to call and talk to someone so you don't have to leave your home for support. But I did find this you may want to investigate for her. There may be one close to you or at least they do have online support forum:

http://www.compassionatefriends.org/Find_Support.aspx

Here is a great site that lists other loss of baby/miscarriage orgs you can check out plus it talks much about grief with a section on the fathers which may be good for you to read.

http://www.griefspeaks.com/id44.html

I would still get her to a psychiatrist and therapist, and not rule out meds. I know it sucks and it's so very hard to get off of them, but the thing is if she is in such a terrible consistent state of mind, then without a med to help, therapy may not do much. I'd seriously consider the ####es and minuses on this. Meds have such a bad connotation to it unfortunately, as it's seen as a proclamation of mental illness confirmed. But you have to consider that maybe she is one that needs to be on a med, you just need to do the trial and error thing again- then take it a day a day at a time. Don't view it as a life sentence on it but one of getting yourself to the point where you can get better. Meds are typically 1/2 the solution, the other 1/2 is therapy/support, etc.

Best wishes to you. I hope this info has helped.

 
CurlyNight said:
I'd seriously consider the ####es and minuses on this.
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Curious about this typo.

Cliff, good job picking up on what she said. Get her help ASAP.

I recommend never saying "power of positive thinking" to her in any discussion. It's just text, but I can hear the scorn in your voice when you type it.

 
You heard right. We've had tons of conversations about our different viewpoints here. I avoid using that term.

 
Tick said:
CurlyNight said:
I'd seriously consider the ####es and minuses on this.
Click to expand...
Curious about this typo.

Cliff, good job picking up on what she said. Get her help ASAP.

I recommend never saying "power of positive thinking" to her in any discussion. It's just text, but I can hear the scorn in your voice when you type it.
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plusses? Not sure how that got to be a bad word or how I could have mispelled it so it could be one.. :shrug:

 
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