Matt Waldman: 75% chance Bridgwater falls due to racism (1 Viewer)

[Dr. Octopus]

Etc. Are we really going to read the minds of these guys somehow?

"indefensible" and "groundless" are words that you threw around with just as little ability to "read into some GM's or owner's mind."

For the record, I don't think Bridgewater will fall out of the top 10 - and if he does I don't think it will be because of outright or indirect racism, but I can't outright dismiss the possibility as a matter of fact. Just like Matt, it would be my opinion that he fell for other reasons (i.e. poor pro-day, slight build)

I think what people may be missing here, is this is one man putting something out there that he beleives may be at least food for thought. People just seem to get so offended when anyone even raises the notion that racism, on any level, may just still exist in 2014.

I don't think that anyone here doubts that racism still exists, but that wasn't the OP's point at all.

Read some of the other responses. Why is everyone so mad at Matt for his opinion/speculation?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

If Farmer passes on Teddy Bridgewater my first reaction would not be he did so due to racism.

Why not?

Really?

Really?

Do you know who Ray Farmer is?

 

[John 14:6]

If Farmer passes on Teddy Bridgewater my first reaction would not be he did so due to racism.

Why not?

Cuz they're called the BROWNS

 

[Dr. Octopus]

Etc. Are we really going to read the minds of these guys somehow?

"indefensible" and "groundless" are words that you threw around with just as little ability to "read into some GM's or owner's mind."

For the record, I don't think Bridgewater will fall out of the top 10 - and if he does I don't think it will be because of outright or indirect racism, but I can't outright dismiss the possibility as a matter of fact. Just like Matt, it would be my opinion that he fell for other reasons (i.e. poor pro-day, slight build)

I think what people may be missing here, is this is one man putting something out there that he beleives may be at least food for thought. People just seem to get so offended when anyone even raises the notion that racism, on any level, may just still exist in 2014.

I just seems like a really, really odd point to make when an African American QB has been drafted in the top two in 2 of the last 3 years.

It's very fair and reasonable to say that you disagree with his point. Some of the other things being said in response are less than fair and reasonable.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

If Farmer passes on Teddy Bridgewater my first reaction would not be he did so due to racism.

Why not?

Really?

Really?

Do you know who Ray Farmer is?

Sure.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

If Farmer passes on Teddy Bridgewater my first reaction would not be he did so due to racism.

Why not?

Really?

Really?

Do you know who Ray Farmer is?

Sure.

Then it shouldn't be at all surprising that it wouldn't be Bracie's first reaction to think that Ray Farmer bypassed Bridgewater due to racism.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Then Bortles should be projected as a 3rd round pick. Explain to me what makes Bortles that much better than Manuel.

I think EJ's college career was viewed as "inconsistent" given he was a big recruit, a great athlete, and a lot was expected from him. Bortles' career is seen as a breakthrough because he came from nothing, is only an above average athlete, and did everything to get better. In the end, I think EJ was able to overcome his 3rd round grade by interviewing well, making teams believe the upside was still there, and that he could be coached up. Or maybe it was just Buffalo thought hand size + cold weather = must draft. Really it's hard to say why some QBs are better than others. Looking at combine numbers or arm strength or college stats or Wonderlic scores still doesn't give you the full picture. Some guys can handle the jump and others can't. The Peyton vs. Leaf decision is revisited over and over again.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

If Farmer passes on Teddy Bridgewater my first reaction would not be he did so due to racism.

Why not?

Really?

Really?

Do you know who Ray Farmer is?

Sure.

Then it shouldn't be at all surprising that it wouldn't be Bracie's first reaction to think that Ray Farmer bypassed Bridgewater due to racism.

Not necessarily.

 

[Bracie Smathers]

If Farmer passes on Teddy Bridgewater my first reaction would not be he did so due to racism.

Why not?

Really?

Really?

Do you know who Ray Farmer is?

Sure.

Then it shouldn't be at all surprising that it wouldn't be Bracie's first reaction to think that Ray Farmer bypassed Bridgewater due to racism.

Not necessarily.

OK, you have the floor.

Explain why my first reaction should necessarily be that Ray Farmer would by-pass QB Teddy Bridgewater due to racism?

You've done your drvie-by and got your reaction so if you honestly have some point make it.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Just playing along here.

Yeah, I can't see any scenario where anyone's first reaction to a black general manager bypassing a black player would be because of racism.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Just to be annoying, is it possible racism is involved if a white GM passes on a white RB?

 

[Soulfly3]

Where the Hell did Waldman come up with 75% ??

 

[Boston]

His comments sound like he is his agent...I think there are a lot of generalizations here with nothing to support them...once you get into this area you would have much more credibility if you gave concrete examples to back up your accusation..

As for the "face-of-the-franchise" I think that is something all owners care about as they should...it's smart business in this day-and-age...that being said I don't think the fact you are black (or white) should give you a free pass to not be scrutinized in this area...I have zero to base this on but I would guess there are some execs worrying that Johnny Football may have issues in this area as his track-record has it's warts...

 

[Soulfly3]

Where the hell is Linus?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The good news is that if an NFL GM passes on a player, QB or not, based on his race then he won't be an NFL GM for very long.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

If Farmer passes on Teddy Bridgewater my first reaction would not be he did so due to racism.

Why not?

Really?

Really?

Do you know who Ray Farmer is?

Sure.

Then it shouldn't be at all surprising that it wouldn't be Bracie's first reaction to think that Ray Farmer bypassed Bridgewater due to racism.

Not necessarily.

OK, you have the floor.

Explain why my first reaction should necessarily be that Ray Farmer would by-pass QB Teddy Bridgewater due to racism?

You've done your drvie-by and got your reaction so if you honestly have some point make it.

You should correct yourself. There is no drive by here. I've been here responding to Andy's posts.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

You should correct yourself. There is no drive by here. I've been here responding to Andy's posts.

Which was a response to Bracie's.

Having fun?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

You should correct yourself. There is no drive by here. I've been here responding to Andy's posts.

Which was a response to Bracie's.

Having fun?

What's your point?

 

[Andy Dufresne]

You should correct yourself. There is no drive by here. I've been here responding to Andy's posts.

Which was a response to Bracie's.

Having fun?

What's your point?

That, whether or not it's on purpose, you're talking nonsense.

Why would racism be someone's first impression if a black GM passed over a black QB?

 

[Bruce Hammond]

Well, I won't be checking into this thread again. It's just gotten too stupid. Seriously, this is the kind of thing that lowers the value of the SP and a reason I come here so infrequently these days. A big fat waste of time to read, way too often.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

You should correct yourself. There is no drive by here. I've been here responding to Andy's posts.

Which was a response to Bracie's.

Having fun?

What's your point?

That, whether or not it's on purpose, you're talking nonsense.

Why would racism be someone's first impression if a black GM passed over a black QB?

Could you connect your last two posts? I asked you what your point was and you explain something but they seem disjointed.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

You should correct yourself. There is no drive by here. I've been here responding to Andy's posts.

Which was a response to Bracie's.

Having fun?

What's your point?

That, whether or not it's on purpose, you're talking nonsense.

Why would racism be someone's first impression if a black GM passed over a black QB?

Could you connect your last two posts? I asked you what your point was and you explain something but they seem disjointed.

No.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

You should correct yourself. There is no drive by here. I've been here responding to Andy's posts.

Which was a response to Bracie's.

Having fun?

What's your point?

That, whether or not it's on purpose, you're talking nonsense.

Why would racism be someone's first impression if a black GM passed over a black QB?

Could you connect your last two posts? I asked you what your point was and you explain something but they seem disjointed.

No.

I don't think anyone else can either.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Well, I won't be checking into this thread again. It's just gotten too stupid. Seriously, this is the kind of thing that lowers the value of the SP and a reason I come here so infrequently these days. A big fat waste of time to read, way too often.

Ohh cmon. This thread started out with quote stating that there is a 75% chance Bridgewater will fall due to racism. If you wanted a good read, this wasn't the place. If anything, you should thank me.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Well, I won't be checking into this thread again. It's just gotten too stupid. Seriously, this is the kind of thing that lowers the value of the SP and a reason I come here so infrequently these days. A big fat waste of time to read, way too often.

Thread was worth it just for the 2 lazy Geno Smith comparisons by 2 posters who I expected more from.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Well, I won't be checking into this thread again. It's just gotten too stupid. Seriously, this is the kind of thing that lowers the value of the SP and a reason I come here so infrequently these days. A big fat waste of time to read, way too often.

Bust out your staff powers and take out some of the trash, brother. This place is years overdue for a housecleaning.

 

[massraider]

Well, I won't be checking into this thread again. It's just gotten too stupid. Seriously, this is the kind of thing that lowers the value of the SP and a reason I come here so infrequently these days. A big fat waste of time to read, way too often.

Ohh cmon. This thread started out with quote stating that there is a 75% chance Bridgewater will fall due to racism. If you wanted a good read, this wasn't the place. If anything, you should thank me.

It was a respected contributor here that said something pretty out there, and it was worth discussing. Contribute or move on.

 

[GroveDiesel]

His comments sound like he is his agent...I think there are a lot of generalizations here with nothing to support them...once you get into this area you would have much more credibility if you gave concrete examples to back up your accusation..

As for the "face-of-the-franchise" I think that is something all owners care about as they should...it's smart business in this day-and-age...that being said I don't think the fact you are black (or white) should give you a free pass to not be scrutinized in this area...I have zero to base this on but I would guess there are some execs worrying that Johnny Football may have issues in this area as his track-record has it's warts...

RGIII, Cam Newton and Russell Wilson all sell tons of jerseys, get great publicity and are fantastic faces of their franchises. I don't think there's a GM out there right now that would refuse to take a black QB because he doesn't want them to be the face of the franchise. The idea is ridiculous. It's certainly possible that some older GMs still think that black guys can't really be successful QBs, but even that seems farfetched after seeing so much success from various black QBs over the last decade. At this point it would have to almost be more than just a subconscious thought and be outright racism.

As for Bortles, he's not going #1 overall. I doubt he even goes in the first round.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

We need a troll smilie.

just doesn't cut it anymore.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

As for Bortles, he's not going #1 overall. I doubt he even goes in the first round.

See guys, now THIS is how you fish.

 

[GroveDiesel]

As for Bortles, he's not going #1 overall. I doubt he even goes in the first round.

See guys, now THIS is how you fish.

I'm actually serious. If he does go in the first round, it will be a tremendous mistake. Worse than the Bills trading down and taking Manuel. But I think his positioning now is more media hype from some media members than actual value.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

As for Bortles, he's not going #1 overall. I doubt he even goes in the first round.

See guys, now THIS is how you fish.

I'm actually serious. If he does go in the first round, it will be a tremendous mistake. Worse than the Bills trading down and taking Manuel. But I think his positioning now is more media hype from some media members than actual value.

Oh. Sorry to hear that. T&P

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Where the hell is Linus?

Banned for a bit.

 

[thriftyrocker]

RGIII, Cam Newton and Russell Wilson all sell tons of jerseys, get great publicity and are fantastic faces of their franchises.

You're confusing black with black. The NFL will gladly accept a black QB. The question is if they'll accept a black QB. If he's too street or they don't like his friends or his back story, then they will question him enough to look elsewhere. The decision over whether to take a QB is so stressed over (usually) that those questions are enough for them to decide no.

The questions around Bridgewater sound a lot like the questions around DeSean, and DeSean's getting kicked off a team after a 80/1300 season.

 

[Limp Ditka]

I wonder if his opinion would change if his name was Keith Bridgewater?

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Well, I won't be checking into this thread again. It's just gotten too stupid. Seriously, this is the kind of thing that lowers the value of the SP and a reason I come here so infrequently these days. A big fat waste of time to read, way too often.

Ohh cmon. This thread started out with quote stating that there is a 75% chance Bridgewater will fall due to racism. If you wanted a good read, this wasn't the place. If anything, you should thank me.

It was a respected contributor here that said something pretty out there, and it was worth discussing. Contribute or move on.

We all make crazy statements from time to time, that doesn't mean they should be discussed.

 

[bigmarc27]

RGIII, Cam Newton and Russell Wilson all sell tons of jerseys, get great publicity and are fantastic faces of their franchises.

You're confusing black with black. The NFL will gladly accept a black QB. The question is if they'll accept a black QB. If he's too street or they don't like his friends or his back story, then they will question him enough to look elsewhere. The decision over whether to take a QB is so stressed over (usually) that those questions are enough for them to decide no.

The questions around Bridgewater sound a lot like the questions around DeSean, and DeSean's getting kicked off a team after a 80/1300 season.

Michael Vick went to jail and is about get a starting job with a 3rd team.

 

[thriftyrocker]

RGIII, Cam Newton and Russell Wilson all sell tons of jerseys, get great publicity and are fantastic faces of their franchises.

You're confusing black with black. The NFL will gladly accept a black QB. The question is if they'll accept a black QB. If he's too street or they don't like his friends or his back story, then they will question him enough to look elsewhere. The decision over whether to take a QB is so stressed over (usually) that those questions are enough for them to decide no.

The questions around Bridgewater sound a lot like the questions around DeSean, and DeSean's getting kicked off a team after a 80/1300 season.

Michael Vick went to jail and is about get a starting job with a 3rd team.

Your rebuttals both here and page 1 are valid. Vick is also a generational athlete at QB. Post jail he remade his image almost as well as Ray Lewis did, and had a harder road to slog given he re-entered the league as a QB3. In general he's a player teams want in the clubhouse, if you go off of what Kelly and Reid have said. It's a different question to say "should we give this guy who has been in our meetings for 2 years and just set the league on fire for half a season $100m with a lot of out clauses" and "do we trust our evaluation of this CFB guy and our read of him from a few interviews." Vick is not viewed as a felon anymore by the NFL. The NFL is going off what 2 top 10 coaches feel about Vick, and that is that he's a good player to have.

Vick entering the league is a more interesting story. He was the first black QB taken at 1.1. The internet then was not the internet now, but his image was more black than RG3. Still, he was a freak of nature (speed+arm strength) that demanded to be picked, which is a lot different than Teddy Bridgewater.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Teams want an Andrew Luck. They don't want a RG3.

Pretty sure more than half of the team's in the league would freaking LOVE to have RGIII. Any questions about him are related to his knees, not his race. I really, really hope this is just trolling.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Even the team that had Peyton Manning wanted Andrew Luck instead.

 

[Soulfly3]

Where the hell is Linus?

Banned for a bit.

Must be scrambling for a second account to join this thread

 

[fatness]

Teams want an Andrew Luck. They don't want a RG3.

Pretty sure more than half of the team's in the league would freaking LOVE to have RGIII. Any questions about him are related to his knees, not his race. I really, really hope this is just trolling.

He's serious. He's been like that for years.

 

[plotts_n_plans]

Racism exists everywhere. If cannot admit to it, then you might as well stick you head in the sand South Park style.

 

[Limp Ditka]

awfulness

 

[cstu]

Cam Newton was told not to get tattoos before the Panthers took him...did Andrew Luck get that treatment?

 

[BuzzCagney]

While I disagree with the rant, I'm reminded of a Yahoo article a few years back where a GM anonymously said they wouldn't draft Andy Dalton because there had never been a successful red head qb before...

sonny jurgensen?

 

[Insein]

McNabb Was #2 overall back in 98. We still doing this.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

awfulness

Time to turn in your keys, guy.

 

[hostile]

I read Waldman's articles before every draft season, especially about RBs, so a big fan here.

However it's important that this was a podcast, people say stuff on the radio and tv that they would never write.

So I'd be really surprised if he would actually be willing to put this in an article. I doubt it because it is completely unverifiable in any kind of draft analysis. You can look at past statistical data for teams' weaknesses showing how they might draft, you can look at their roster and personnel and see where they need to draft position wise, you can look at their offensive and defensive systems and see who would be a fit, but you absolutely cannot read into some GM's or owner's mind and say they what they are thinking on a team by team basis, like you would do any other kind of draft analysis. Can't be done. Even if he wanted to state it in writing it's indefensible anyway, groundless.

Why wouldn't he be willing to put it in writing?

It's his speculative opinion and a social commentary. You can argue about whether he's "right" or "wrong", but he's a highly intelligent man, who is entitled to express his beliefs in a respectful and measured way.

Agreed... He is also a white man, married to a black woman who works in the corporate world, who deals with racism *constantly*.

He's speaking from close experience. Anyone who reads his stuff knows this.

 

[rdrouyn]

Speculating on racism is kinda pointless because it is impossible to prove or disprove and nobody will admit to doing it. I bet there is racism in the NFL but not any more or less than there is in the rest of society. Who knows if a team that passes on him is racist or just terrible at evaluating talent? Maybe a little bit of both? What is the percentage? It is impossible to know.