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NE Running Game - 2 dozen threads merged (1 Viewer)

GordonGekko said:
-- what do they do if Taylor gets hurt?
They sign a free agent. Look, I realize most of you have never been in a locker room when a young professional athlete has been traded for the first time. But often one of the first things a player does is excuse himself, go somewhere in private, and starts crying. Professional athletes are generally a very highly insecure bunch of people. Love and hate for them swings on a fragile balance from day to day, from snap to snap, from at bat to free throw. Being traded the first time is a traumatic experience for a drafted player who knows no other team. It's also difficult for a player's wife and children who must then relocate. Two of the most stressful situations in a person's life is a big move from one geographic location to another and the process of divorce. This kind of "divorce", a public first one, is one of the most grueling for a player. ( This would be the basis of a good NFL article, Chase Stuart, if of course you could be convinced to put down your worn out calculator. I just realized if I wanted to see good sportswriting out of you son, I have to start giving you the subject matter on a plate. ) What a trade means, in real life to a real franchise, is we would rather be without you compared to our worst available option. Otherwise the team wouldn't have traded him. Again, running backs in the current NFL, given the implications of the salary cap, the shift towards a QB dominant league ( which changes the role of the 3rd down COP back) and the double ended candle nature of the position ( Burns at both ends, the light that shines brightest burns half as long) means they are disposable. What is the current status of the Patriots O line? That will have more to do with the success or failure of a RB signed as a FA if Taylor gets hurt than if Maroney could have outplayed a replacement. Hell, I'm an old man and I could probably hobble for 800 yards behind Steve Hutchinson and Walter Jones in their prime. Admit your mistakes early and let them go. Angry Bill could do it with O'Connell, couldn't seem to do it with Maroney. ( He should read MoneyBall again) Marginal production for marginal pay is not value. Winning teams have players outperforming their first contract, that's actual value. It's why the Ravens and Colts are consistently competitive ( look at their draft records, esp in the lower rounds) It's not just the money spent on the contract or the use of a draft pick, it's time, time invested in the player to learn the system and build a rapport with his team mates. Angry Bill wasted time with Maroney. People should stop looking at Maroneys draft status. That's like looking at a kids major in college when he's looking at his third full time career oriented job since graduation. The only thing his draft status determines is his first contract. His performance is measured against that, not his draft status. As for free agent backs who people think are washed up. Maybe they are. But they are getting something most people aren't looking at. They are getting rest and time to rehab their lingering injuries. Maybe not a long term solution, but fresh legs at the end of a grinding season can make a difference. There is also a level of unpredictability with a FA RB down the stretch. It's not like defenses have a ton of history with a guy likely from another division or how the new team will use him. This is not like WR or OL, where timing and rapport are essential within a unit framework. A RB is a plug and play unit on the field as long as he can actually block. The Patriots will be fine without Maroney. They however WILL NOT be fine if they can't hit the QB and if they can't find a way to establish a power running game when needed. This is a "shootout" team. The Pats are three steps away from having Mouse Davis run that offense. The Colts proved it in the last SuperBowl again and the Iggles prove it every year ( Relax Jason Wood, we aren't filming a western, you can slide back into your armchair and continue to second guess GM on the yellow brick road) that you can't win in the playoffs unless you have an effective ground assault. Good God, for all the things I really love about Angry Bill's approach to football, he's like an old lady with coupons and thirty cats when it comes to his pass rush. For the love of the football gods man, stop waiting for a sale and use some assets to get an actual pass rusher. It's like the guy is trying to build a log cabin smack dab on top of the second round of the NFL draft. Or did he suddenly forget that the Giants, serious underdogs, were able to beat his undefeated team because they were able to batter Tom Brady around? Who cares about Maroney. Let him cry in private and then shuffle over to Denver. The Pats need someone who can beat the living hell out of an opposing quarterback.
ABC
 
Pats had to get rid of one U of Minnesota RB to make room for another. In a stunning move, The Pats trade Logan Mankins and a case of Sam Adams to the Cowboys for Marion Barber and Jerry Jone's plastic surgeon.

 
So...Are the patriots confident enough in Taylor/Green-Ellis that they just traded Maroney away.

Figured I give this thread a bump.

Keep an eye on BenJarvus midseason.
TaylorMorris

Faulk

Green-Ellis
The Patriots don't simply have one back step up a rung on the depth chart when another back goes down. Each plays a role. Taylor - Starting back; majority of carries

Morris - pounder; short yardage; wear down the clock

Faulk - third down back; shotgun formation back; change of pace back

Ellis - give Taylor a breather; wear down the clock

I've watched the Pats enough that I believe should Taylor go down to injury, Ellis might take his lead role with the other backs remaining in the niche position they have carved out for themselves.
Patriots website lists BJGE behind Taylor and Morris behind Faulk. This is consistent with a report I read earlier this offseason saying Ellis had passed Morris on the depth chart. I will see if I can dig up that link.
 
If BB got anything of value for Maroney he pulled off another genious trade. This guy is a first round bust.
So that would make BB a genius when trading and a complete failure in drafting then, correct?
His drafting track record hasn't been all that great of late.
:thumbdown:Off the top of my head; Merriwhether, Mayo, Edelman, Chung, Butler, Vollmer, Tate, Spikes, McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez are all guys taken in the last few drafts and looking like they will be playing significant minutes. And all the while they have managed to keep stockpiling picks. That looks like a pretty good record of late to me.
He has plenty of misses, that we don't need to rehash. Also, you could say all those young guys are playing heavy minutes because of BB's draft failures earlier. If you draft a ton of awful players, then you will naturally have a good deal of turnover. We shall see just how good your list of young players are.
 
If BB got anything of value for Maroney he pulled off another genious trade. This guy is a first round bust.
So that would make BB a genius when trading and a complete failure in drafting then, correct?
His drafting track record hasn't been all that great of late.
:lmao:Off the top of my head; Merriwhether, Mayo, Edelman, Chung, Butler, Vollmer, Tate, Spikes, McCourty, Gronkowski, Hernandez are all guys taken in the last few drafts and looking like they will be playing significant minutes. And all the while they have managed to keep stockpiling picks. That looks like a pretty good record of late to me.
He has plenty of misses, that we don't need to rehash. Also, you could say all those young guys are playing heavy minutes because of BB's draft failures earlier. If you draft a ton of awful players, then you will naturally have a good deal of turnover. We shall see just how good your list of young players are.
So your definition of a good GM is someone who has no "misses"? Are you kidding?His defense got old so he's drafted young defensive talent. I see no reason for that to automatically mean that his team sucks.
 
The Patriots passed on Joseph Addai to take Beef-a-roney. :(
At the time, this was considered a great move. I believe there was lots of discussion about the Colts wanting Maroney, but having to settle for Addai.
That was a rumor starting by a Pats beat writer... it had no substance.And to Yudkin - no one said they are done trading... but these moves still would have been better in the preseason, so that the acquired player could get a feel for the system before needing to play.
I saw this in other reports where Tom Brady was quoted saying that Peyton Manning told him that the Patriots 'stole' his guy (Maroney) in the draft. I recall seeing a direct quote from Brady of what Manning had told to him but I had not heard that it was just a made-up and unsubstantiated rumor.

This is one of the reports from four years ago.

Belichick stole Maroney from Colts

May 4, 2006Belichick is a Thief

There…I bet that got your attention!

Before you go ballistic on me, I’m not criticizing the Patriots boss or calling him a criminal. I’m actually complimenting him on what I’ve already characterized as a great move.

Tom Brady met the New England media during a break from the off-season conditioning program in Foxboro. During his chat, the Pats QB mentioned he had spoken with Peyton Manning since the NFL Draft, and that Manning told him the Patriots had stolen the Colts running back in the draft, Laurence Maroney.

Not that we need confirmation from Indy that Maroney was a highly thought of prospect. But the fact we messed up their draft plans and made them go with their second choice has to make Patriots followers smile a bit more.

Now then, haven’t heard much chatter about the Patriots draft…you folks happy with what they did? (I’m ecstatic, to be honest!) How soon will Maroney push Corey Dillon out of town…2006? 2007? And how about the rest of the picks….surprised they didn’t focus more on defense?
 
Guys,

Please try not to feed the trolls, they aren't all that hard to spot, just look for the non NE fans who feel compelled to post in virtually every NE related thread and have nothing but negative things to say about NE, their org, coaches, players and fans. It is an obsession with some, try not to feed them.

On to Maroney and how many NE fans feel about him (IMO). I have always thought of Maroney as a bit of an enigma and a good way to describe him might be to say "the whole is less than the sum". Terrific size and speed, but the vision and instinct just doesn't seem to be there as well as concerns about his attitude and work habits. A poor draft pick who never lived up to his potential and would likely never be a good fit for their offense.

I think Den got a good deal; in the right system (stretch plays, cut & go), Maroney could be very effective. NE, as they so often do, calculated what was best for their team long term and made the best of a poor situation. They knew Maroney was unlikely to be in their plans unless they took some hits at rb in TC and since they didn't, they felt now was the time to move him. Good for Denver and likely better than the comp pick NE would have received when he left at the end of the year. IMO, it is much more likely that DEN will finish closer to the bottom and NE closer to the top than vice versa. Potentially moving from the back half of the 6th to the top of the 4th could (again potentially) provide them with some decent value.

 
Guys,Please try not to feed the trolls, they aren't all that hard to spot, just look for the non NE fans who feel compelled to post in virtually every NE related thread and have nothing but negative things to say about NE, their org, coaches, players and fans. It is an obsession with some, try not to feed them.
FYI Trolling comes from both sides. And just because someone comments negatively about your favorite team does not mean they are trolling. No organization is perfect.
 
Guys,

Please try not to feed the trolls, they aren't all that hard to spot, just look for the non NE fans who feel compelled to post in virtually every NE related thread and have nothing but negative things to say about NE, their org, coaches, players and fans. It is an obsession with some, try not to feed them.
FYI Trolling comes from both sides. And just because someone comments negatively about your favorite team does not mean they are trolling. No organization is perfect.
Yes, I agree with you that Trolling comes from ALL sides.Yes, I agree with you that there is plenty to criticize NE about. However, I NEVER claimed that "because" someone comments negatively on NE that makes them a Troll. I quite specifically narrowed it down to those that "feel compelled to post in virtually every NE related thread and have nothing but negative things to say about NE, their org, coaches, players and fans. It is (quite literally) an obsession with some"

I never claimed NE was perfect and of course legitimate criticism of their org, staff, players is fair game and like any team there will alwyas be plenty of legitimate things to criticize them for.

There are at least 2 such IHNE (I hate NE) Trolls on this page 1 new one hiding behind an alias and 1 oldie but goodie :wub: . I have no probs with the other 99% of posters, many of whom I dissagree with. I didn't mention any names, all I did was ask everyone that might be interested in a reasonable discussion to be on the lookout.

I apologize for any misunderstanding, there is nothing I like more than fair and reasoned debate; bring it on :thumbup:

 
I'll admit that I don't see a ton of Patriots game, and I haven't had a Pats player on one of my teams the past two seasons (no reason, just the way it turned out), so I haven't paid them a ton of attention.

Is Fred Taylor a guy worth having now? I put in a waiver claim on him, since I failed on both Jackson and Hillis...but I am wondering if he is worth keeping on my bench. I have Rice, Spiller, Best, BarberIII, and Caddy as well.

 
If they move Mankins for a rb, who are possible trade partners?BarberLynch
Mankins is worth way more than Lynch.
I'm not denying that. I really doubt any trade would be a 1 for 1 type deal. But I don't really care about the other pieces of a potential trade. I just want to know what rb's have been speculated to possibly end up in NE's backfield.
Steven Jackson had been the rumored guy all preseason. Don't see it happening now, as STL would not have another option at RB.
 
I stil think BJGE is low man on the totem pole. Taylor, Morris, Faulk, BJGE. Maybe they bring back Chris Taylor if they need a body. They also have Javarris James on the practice squad (although I don't know much about him).
Is this the way you'd stack rank them, and if so, by the way NE utilizes them or for FF purposes (or both).While Faulk has to compete with a lot of other weapons, both in and coming out of the backfield, he still seems pretty utlilized in the game, and I see him as potential value in PPR.
Taylor remains the starter and gets the core of the carries IF HEALTHY (big if). Morris and BJGE used sparingly to give Taylor a blow.If Taylor is out, I think Morris and BJGE would split carries.

Faulk gets what Faulk gets regardless. Occasional a handful of carries and almost all the receiving targets out of the backfield.



If anything, bump up Brady, as this tells me they will be focused on passing more than expected.
By the same logic, I think it is a bump for Faulk.
 
If they move Mankins for a rb, who are possible trade partners?BarberLynch
Mankins is worth way more than Lynch.
I'm not denying that. I really doubt any trade would be a 1 for 1 type deal. But I don't really care about the other pieces of a potential trade. I just want to know what rb's have been speculated to possibly end up in NE's backfield.
Steven Jackson had been the rumored guy all preseason. Don't see it happening now, as STL would not have another option at RB.
I heard the rumors as well (I think from your postings). While I realize all these possibilities are simply us speculating, I can at least see Dallas and/or Buffalo making a deal here as it could be a match. I don't see how this could make any sense for the Rams unless we started talking a 3 team deal but that makes things infinitely more complex and unlikely.Are there actual rumors/reports of Mankins being shopped?
 
I'll admit that I don't see a ton of Patriots game, and I haven't had a Pats player on one of my teams the past two seasons (no reason, just the way it turned out), so I haven't paid them a ton of attention.Is Fred Taylor a guy worth having now? I put in a waiver claim on him, since I failed on both Jackson and Hillis...but I am wondering if he is worth keeping on my bench. I have Rice, Spiller, Best, BarberIII, and Caddy as well.
He could have some decent games (maybe next week for instance); unfortunately, the problem with having him on your bench is that by the time you want to start him he will probably be hurt.
 
If they move Mankins for a rb, who are possible trade partners?BarberLynch
Mankins is worth way more than Lynch.
I'm not denying that. I really doubt any trade would be a 1 for 1 type deal. But I don't really care about the other pieces of a potential trade. I just want to know what rb's have been speculated to possibly end up in NE's backfield.
Steven Jackson had been the rumored guy all preseason. Don't see it happening now, as STL would not have another option at RB.
I heard the rumors as well (I think from your postings). While I realize all these possibilities are simply us speculating, I can at least see Dallas and/or Buffalo making a deal here as it could be a match. I don't see how this could make any sense for the Rams unless we started talking a 3 team deal but that makes things infinitely more complex and unlikely.Are there actual rumors/reports of Mankins being shopped?
I doubt they get a player for him and I don't think they are fixated on picking up an RB anyway; why should they be?At this point I think it will be difficult to get anything more than a 2nd and my guess is that is what they are probably trying to do. I agree with the earlier sentiment that it is highly unlikley they would trade him within the division or to the Colts unless they could get a 1.
 
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If they move Mankins for a rb, who are possible trade partners?BarberLynch
Mankins is worth way more than Lynch.
I'm not denying that. I really doubt any trade would be a 1 for 1 type deal. But I don't really care about the other pieces of a potential trade. I just want to know what rb's have been speculated to possibly end up in NE's backfield.
Steven Jackson had been the rumored guy all preseason. Don't see it happening now, as STL would not have another option at RB.
I heard the rumors as well (I think from your postings). While I realize all these possibilities are simply us speculating, I can at least see Dallas and/or Buffalo making a deal here as it could be a match. I don't see how this could make any sense for the Rams unless we started talking a 3 team deal but that makes things infinitely more complex and unlikely.Are there actual rumors/reports of Mankins being shopped?
Well, at this point there is very little movement in resigning him, so the only other option would be to trade him. I suspect he would be considered available, although I don't know if anyone at this point has shown much interest. I would guess they put the word out that they would entertain offers.As far as trade partners for a RB go, in theory any team with two decent options or that has a RBBC might be a fit. Clearly the Cowboys would make a lot of sense as they have 3 decent RB and at this point a so so OL.Unless the Pats get a premium back, I don't see them willing to give up a whole lot. In that case, mid round draft picks might be more sensical than trading Mankins for a RB.Guys I could see as potentially being available might be McGahee, Lynch, MBush, MMoore, KSmith, one of the Cowboys backs, and who knows, maybe one of the Panthers backs. That's just from looking at rosters. Whether they have any interest in those options and whether they might be available is anyone's guess at this point.
 
Per the Boston Herald

The Patriots released their practice report today, and it contained one interested nugget of information. Patriots RB Fred Taylor, who is the unquestioned starter now that Laurence Maroney has been traded, was limited with a toe injury.

That’s not the best sign for the 34-year-old, and it explains why he wasn’t seen in the locker room today. But he did practice some, so maybe it’s not completely serious.

WR Julian Edelman (foot) was limited in work with his foot injury. He passed through the locker room today and said, “We’ll see” when asked by his reporter if he returns this week.

OL Nick Kaczur (back) and CB Terrence Wheatley (foot) both missed practice completely.
Turf toe anyone? Unfortunately, all that probably means is Taylor will become even less useable and listed as a GTD every week. Sounds like he'll probably play through, but if this condition worsens, what's the better play? BJGE or Morris (assuming Faulk's role probably doesn't change since he's been doing the same thing forever).

Obviously no one from this backfield (including Taylor) should be considered for more than a FLEX at any point unless one guy is clearly anointed.

 
Per the Boston Herald

The Patriots released their practice report today, and it contained one interested nugget of information. Patriots RB Fred Taylor, who is the unquestioned starter now that Laurence Maroney has been traded, was limited with a toe injury.

That’s not the best sign for the 34-year-old, and it explains why he wasn’t seen in the locker room today. But he did practice some, so maybe it’s not completely serious.

WR Julian Edelman (foot) was limited in work with his foot injury. He passed through the locker room today and said, “We’ll see” when asked by his reporter if he returns this week.

OL Nick Kaczur (back) and CB Terrence Wheatley (foot) both missed practice completely.
Turf toe anyone? Unfortunately, all that probably means is Taylor will become even less useable and listed as a GTD every week. Sounds like he'll probably play through, but if this condition worsens, what's the better play? BJGE or Morris (assuming Faulk's role probably doesn't change since he's been doing the same thing forever).

Obviously no one from this backfield (including Taylor) should be considered for more than a FLEX at any point unless one guy is clearly anointed.
Sure they are just resting the old man. He will play this week!

 
They activated Edgerrin James' little brother from the practice squad so I'll be interested to see if they give him any snaps.

 
For those infatuated with BJGE, he's basically a hard nosed pile mover but he's nothing special. He really is not elusive and has very average speed. He stuck around mostly because of his work ethic and the fact that he also plays special teams. He's 4th on the depth chart after Taylor, Morris, and Faulk and probably ahead of their practice squad call up James. I doubt Law Firm would have much value unless the other guys got hurt. The trade of Maroney bumps up Brady and the receivers more than the RBs as I see it. BJGE might get a few carries here and there, but not enough work to make him fantasy relevant at this point,

 
I bid on and got Law Firm in two dynasty leagues, mostly out of deperation in 16 team leagues with huge rosters. If nothing else, he has a chance for some GL carries. Taylor could well wear down, so I figure it's worth a shot in the dark.

 
For those infatuated with BJGE, he's basically a hard nosed pile mover but he's nothing special. He really is not elusive and has very average speed. He stuck around mostly because of his work ethic and the fact that he also plays special teams. He's 4th on the depth chart after Taylor, Morris, and Faulk and probably ahead of their practice squad call up James. I doubt Law Firm would have much value unless the other guys got hurt. The trade of Maroney bumps up Brady and the receivers more than the RBs as I see it. BJGE might get a few carries here and there, but not enough work to make him fantasy relevant at this point,
I think you've posted the same thing about BJGE so many times now that one of us 40000ers should start posting it for you... I agree, of any team, NE is one of the last people should hope produces a RB goldmine.
 
For those infatuated with BJGE, he's basically a hard nosed pile mover but he's nothing special. He really is not elusive and has very average speed. He stuck around mostly because of his work ethic and the fact that he also plays special teams. He's 4th on the depth chart after Taylor, Morris, and Faulk and probably ahead of their practice squad call up James. I doubt Law Firm would have much value unless the other guys got hurt. The trade of Maroney bumps up Brady and the receivers more than the RBs as I see it. BJGE might get a few carries here and there, but not enough work to make him fantasy relevant at this point,
I think you've posted the same thing about BJGE so many times now that one of us 40000ers should start posting it for you... I agree, of any team, NE is one of the last people should hope produces a RB goldmine.
At this point I think we may need a NE RB Forum.
 
With Belichick, Taylor either had bad turf toe that will hamper him all year, or this is just an excuse to get him rest to stay healthy. There is no in-between.

 
With Belichick, Taylor either had bad turf toe that will hamper him all year, or this is just an excuse to get him rest to stay healthy. There is no in-between.
I don't understand why they would make up a phantom injury just to rest Taylor. If they wanted to rest him, it would be better and more secretive to pretend that he's fine and everything is great. They don't need to list him on the injury report to do so.
 
Marooney could be a GAME CHANGER. Strongly advise making a play on the next Denver WORK HORSE. Lots of jokers in this thread haven't been paying attention.

 
All aboard the Ben-Jarvus Green-Ellis bandwagon! Toot toot!

The only thing between him and a starting job is "Fragile" Fred Taylor who is 94! Toot toot!

It's the year of players with freakishly unusual names (Legedu Naanee, Devin Aromashodu) doing well and "Lawfirm" Ben-Jarvus Green-Ellis is next! Toot toot!

 
I don't think I have seen enough of Green to give an educated opinion but I have to think if the Pats gave Maroney away they have to think Green can do the job as a start. Their other rb's are either very old or fragile or both so they have to know that Green will be a much bigger part of that team before the end of the season.

 

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