Nice cherry picking. Lol at Cruz landing in a perfect place, but the #12 overall pick in this draft lands in the same place and now it stinks.
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Post round 1 draft, stock up/down (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter dmac37
- Start date
lod01
Footballguy
Casting Couch
Footballguy
Incorrect, no wat will Sims be used as a COP back.
He will steal carries from Martin, I really like the kid.
Anyone who thinks that Martin's value is not adversely affected by the arrival of Sims is kidding themselves.
bostonfred
Footballguy
I get that. I don't totally agree with it, but I get it. But that's not what I'm talking about.1) The guys who scarfed up multiple first in this year's draft paid a decent price to get players in a supposedly talent rich draft. Whether you think those players are talented or not, ending up on bad teams or in time shares can't be considered good news. So I stand by my comment that this is a brutal draft for guys who own multiple firsts.
2) Even if you love the talent, and think that talent trumps situation, the problem is deciding which guys have the kind of talent that trumps their crappy situations. Is Hyde ever going to start an NFL game? Ask a Lattimore owner how the talent vs situation thing worked out for them. Or a Hunter owner. Or a LMJ owner. All of those guys thought they drafted the most talented player... and any one of them would be happy to take a do-over on their picks right now. Will the same thing happen to the really talented San Francisco backup? No, not Christine Michael, I mean Robert Turbin. All we heard about was how awesome that guy was. He may literally never start for a fantasy team in his career. In fact, so far, both of the Seattle backups are very talented and completely worthless. Who's to say they don't take another stud RB prospect again next year. The 49ers just did it. So while you're trumpeting talent over situation, the problem is making sure your talented players will actually get a shot at some point.
3) And then you still have to deal with the structural issues of the teams they joined. Watkins isn't leaving Buffalo any time soon, and Buffalo isn't building a dome, and Manuel doesn't appear to be an elite passing prospect. Things can change quickly in the NFL, but this isn't a case of a bad team becoming good overnight, it's a case of a bad situation staying bad. The best Buffalo receiver in team history was barely on the hall of fame radar, and it's not because he wasn't talented enough or even because his QBs sucked. It's just not a great place to catch long passes.
4) Of course, situation doesn't trump talent. See also: what just happened to Zac Stacy's value. And Mason's value is pretty murky, too, for now anyways. Another brutal pick in an already brutal draft.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Not so sure about that. If mason improves pass blocking he has more talent than Stacy.
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Bojang0301
Omar4Heisman
Any RB and their corresponding teams RB have taken hits this draft. I actually find it humorous in a dark way.
Edit: Sankey and Hyde's situations are the least terrible so far.
Edit: Sankey and Hyde's situations are the least terrible so far.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
lod01
Footballguy
I'm one of few if not the only one who thinks there is nothing wrong with their crew of Wrs and I have Moore as the 3rd best on that squad. None are Watkins level but all are solid.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Great time to be buying Martin (and I say this as someone that thinks Sims was the rb3 in this class). All it means is that Martin won't get 400 touches, but only 300.
Shutout
Footballguy
Like I said, I agree with Fred. His points are all valid. Feel free to give relevant, earth shattering, non cherry picking examples to support your thought but it still remains, Fred is correct
1) Being a high draft pick means that usually you're on a "bad" team. That said, some of the better WR/TE prospects this year ended up on NO, Philly, Tampa, Den, NYG, Det, and GB- not exactly fantasy wastelands.
2) Not sure what your point is regarding Lattimore, his situation certainly isn't the reason he hasn't played. Hunter was a 4th round pick, and LMJ hasn't panned out (along with being drafted into a worse situation with a younger Gore). Turbin was also a 4th rounder, and I don't recall too many people having really high hopes for him. The problem is more making sure that your talented players are actually talented- if so, they'll get a shot at some point.
3) Watkins is kind of unique, he's been the consensus #1 pick, not really an issue for someone who "scarfed up multiple #1's". I'm not a Manuel fan, but he was a rookie who missed a good chunk of the season/practice time. It's premature to say he isn't going to improve, and you don't have to catch a ton of long passes to be a good fantasy WR, especially in PPR. Watkins isn't a deep threat specialist anyhow.
4) Kind of my point- you're putting too much focus on situation IMO, which can change in an instant.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
U guys are nuts and I mean that in a kind way, if u think sims has a shot at hurting Martin's value.
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I just gave my reasoning in my response to him, but how about this- you guys give me (realistic) landing spots that would have been a huge improvement for all of these guys? You mentioned Atlanta as one spot for a RB, but I really think Tenn and SF are equally good if not better long term. What else?
Kleck
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
You're handing us a blank canvas. We could come up with 100s of dream scenarios that would have fantasy people drooling. Let's send Manziel to oakland. Let's send Evans San Diego or Denver. Watkins to almost anywhere. Carlos Hyde or the mason to tennessee would have generated tons of buzz. But to go back to the basics: it's just been what Fred said and things could be a lot different. These picks, the way, they are going, is just not ideal.. That's all
az_prof
Footballguy
I like this situation for Mason. Stacy was not an exceptional back--he is a JAG. People got lulled by his total numbers but they were accumulated by volume.
Why on earth would Manziel in Oakland have people drooling? Watkins to anywhere except Buffalo? Tennessee did draft a RB, which you were arguing earlier was a bad spot for Sankey because of Greene, but now it would have been great for Mason or Hyde? It's not realistic to think Denver was going to trade from #31 to #7 for a WR, and they did draft a WR in the 2nd. Why does SD make you drool for Evans but TB is bad?
dmac37
Footballguy
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
footballstar
Footballguy
Gerhart - Up
Riffraff
Footballguy
Seems like Tampa is becoming Chicago South. Brought in their QB, two big WRs, competent TE, and a pseudo-Forte clone.
djmich
Footballguy
Was going to come in and add this, and just a big of a statement for Taylor as well....although a back here on day 3 can change that.
False Start
Footballguy
Newsflash, most all running backs share carries. Very few every down RBs. The lack of understanding on this subject should be exploited by all.
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Come on.jurb26 said:
werdnoynek
Footballguy
Which, last year, landed him in the top 15. If you thought he was going to be the feature back, you clearly weren't paying attention.jurb26 said:
Not sure I agree here. Maybe if the Jags had upgraded the o-line more, but it seems to me that based on the way they are drafting, they intend on throwing the ball more than originally believed.
footballstar
Footballguy
Responding more to the lack of a RB picked in the first three rounds, today could change things.
lod01
Footballguy
Soon to be down. Still a handful of RB better than him left to be drafted. If Isiah Crowell goes there, I would move him way up the rookie FF board.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Im thinking Crowell will be lucky to get drafted today.
Jax is revamping their entire Offense this year, starting with the Toby signing.
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lod01
Footballguy
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
This is a bit odd. On the one hand you're trumpeting the talent of a bunch of 3rd rounders as if they were top 10 overall picks that ended up in a bad situation. Then, on the other hand you're looking back at a bunch of 4th rounders and saying that they obviously didn't have much talent if they were drafted that late.
This isn't Jonathan Stewart being an obvious stud drafted into a bad situation here. The number of RBs drafted in the 3rd round and on that disappeared into obscurity without a hope of ever seeing significant time on the field is too long to list. I'm not saying that all these guys will be the same but some of the guys we're talking about here were drafted a whopping 10 picks earlier then the guys that you just said were drafted too late to have much talent/hope. You can't have it both ways.
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I'm doing no such thing. I'm not even talking about how talented these RBs are (personally I don't think they are very). This is a discussion about situation, and I'm just refuting his argument that "talented" guys like Turbin and Hunter didn't pan out because of situation. I'm saying that they didn't pan out because they weren't very talented.
If Sankey, Hyde, etc. are talented, their situations won't hurt their value (I think they'll help it actually, I like those situations). Also, the discussion is mostly about the WRs since I think most agree that they are talented, and I think many of them ended up in good situations as well- the other two posters seem to think they're terrible, which I just don't get.
az_prof
Footballguy
Really? A fourth round pick makes you adjust your rankings that much? I don't see it.
He doesn't jump to the top but the opportunity is nice. That's more what I was thinking.Really? A fourth round pick makes you adjust your rankings that much? I don't see it.
