Rams acquire #1 pick, Massive haul for Titans (1 Viewer)

[massraider]

In a league where teams are passing more, and more and more and more, how exactly are LT losing value?

When LT were truly valuable, was when NFL defenses were drafting right ends all day long, and putting their top pass rushers on the QBs blind side.  They would leave them there, and turn them loose, play after play.  RE was ideally a 6'5'', 265 pound pass rusher, the LE was the base end, right?  Power rusher, holds up to the run, tight end on that side.

NFL has changed.  Teams move their pass rushers all over the line.  Where are Watt, Houston, MIller, and Mack lined up?  Mostly over the right tackle.  

Passing game has also changed, to a lot more of short passing, making interior pressure more desirable, increasing the value of guards. 

Left tackles are still valuable, of course they are.  But their value peaked a while ago, IMO. and it's not as big a deal to have that HOF LT that can shut down Bruce Smith or Dwight Freeney.  Because now, teams just move their best pass rusher somewhere else.  

Give me a $8 mill left tackle, someone else can have a $12 mill left tackle, and I'll use that extra money to have a better team.  

 

[stbugs]

If you aska  QB if he'd rather have a great LT or great Rb or WR, which do you think he'd choose?

How is this even a question? You'd rather have Joe Thomas over Tomlinson or Peterson? That was the actual question. Personally, I'd rather have the guys who've gotten to the playoffs. LT/ADP have already shown they could take teams not dominant elsewhere (and honestly the 2012 Vikings without ADP were the worst team in the league) and take them to the playoffs. I am pretty sure Joe Thomas is a great example of a HOF LT not being able to help a team make the playoffs if they aren't good elsewhere.

Maybe the QB might choose the LT to not get hit as much, but I couldn't imagine one person taking Thomas over LT/ADP if they are trying to get to the playoffs. They make the entire OL/WRs better.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

 
How could this be true? How could they trade so much if they didn't LOVE one of the QBs?

Because the NFL wants to promote the drama for the draft.

 

[lod01]

 
How could this be true? How could they trade so much if they didn't LOVE one of the QBs?

It's Goff or Wentz. That is the only question remaining.

 

[stbugs]

 
How could this be true? How could they trade so much if they didn't LOVE one of the QBs?

I don't think it is. They couldn't trade that if they weren't sold on one of them.

 

[massraider]

 
How could this be true? How could they trade so much if they didn't LOVE one of the QBs?

It can't be true.  And that's an embarrassing statement by King.  They have to have made their decision.

 

[massraider]

Just when you think you couldn't dislike Peter King any more.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

It's Goff or Wentz. That is the only question remaining.

But even that shouldn't be a question. They had to fall in love with one of them to offer a haul like that.

 

[lod01]

But even that shouldn't be a question. They had to fall in love with one of them to offer a haul like that.

Well, they know who it is. We don't. that's what I meant.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

It can't be true.  And that's an embarrassing statement by King.  They have to have made their decision.

exactly. it's a bizarre statement.

 

[shader]

As a Titans fan, this is a great trade.  BUT, if we draft the way we've drafted the last decade, it won't matter.

 

[stbugs]

Well, they know who it is. We don't. that's what I meant.

I know what you meant, they know, we don't.

 

[lod01]

I know what you meant, they know, we don't.

Yep. in fact I can't even guess. If I actually had to guess, it would be Wentz. At this point in the NFL, you have to interview these guys and now focus on 'how much do you love playing', especially after the past 2 years where the 49ers lost many to retirement along with Calvin quitting while only 30. They need to make sure the guy is a 15 year starter. Then they have to hope he works out as one for the loot they handed over.

 

[Hankmoody]

Careful, now.  If Goff goes #1, you gotta do some serious tap dancing.  

He's got a ton of experience, he'll be fine.

 

[Hankmoody]

 
How could this be true? How could they trade so much if they didn't LOVE one of the QBs?

It's possible they fully believe in them both and just have to make the decision.  Luck/Griffin, Manning/Leaf (wow), Winston/Mariotta, all were virtual coin flips going into draft day, and it's easy to see a team liking either one.  Heck just from a pure risk management perspective.  If they only like one guy, why do this now?  Why not wait until draft day and make sure their "one and only" doesn't fall down some stairs or pull a Josh Gordon in the next two weeks?

I agree they have probably made up their minds, I just don't see this as that big of a surprise if it turned out to be true.

 

[OnTheReg]

It's possible they fully believe in them both and just have to make the decision.  Luck/Griffin, Manning/Leaf (wow), Winston/Mariotta, all were virtual coin flips going into draft day, and it's easy to see a team liking either one.  Heck just from a pure risk management perspective.  If they only like one guy, why do this now?  Why not wait until draft day and make sure their "one and only" doesn't fall down some stairs or pull a Josh Gordon in the next two weeks?

I agree they have probably made up their minds, I just don't see this as that big of a surprise if it turned out to be true.

Everyone knew Peyton and Luck were going to be the top picks, far from a 'virtual coin flip'.

 

[Boston]

To make a deal like this two weeks before the draft you absolutely have to know who it is for...if not you are not qualified to be the GM...

 

[BoltBacker]

I sure hope Bri wasn't driving a car or something when he heard the news.

Should everyone here in the shark pool be chipping in for a floral arrangement? Do we know for sure he didn't have a heart condition? Seems oddly absent for a guy beating this drum like no other.

 

[FUBAR]

When LT were truly valuable, was when NFL defenses were drafting right ends all day long, and putting their top pass rushers on the QBs blind side.  They would leave them there, and turn them loose, play after play.  RE was ideally a 6'5'', 265 pound pass rusher, the LE was the base end, right?  Power rusher, holds up to the run, tight end on that side.

NFL has changed.  Teams move their pass rushers all over the line.  Where are Watt, Houston, MIller, and Mack lined up?  Mostly over the right tackle.  

Passing game has also changed, to a lot more of short passing, making interior pressure more desirable, increasing the value of guards. 

Left tackles are still valuable, of course they are.  But their value peaked a while ago, IMO. and it's not as big a deal to have that HOF LT that can shut down Bruce Smith or Dwight Freeney.  Because now, teams just move their best pass rusher somewhere else.  

Give me a $8 mill left tackle, someone else can have a $12 mill left tackle, and I'll use that extra money to have a better team.  

Agreed but I'll still take thf 12m left tackle over a 12m rb.

 

[RUSF18]

Since we seem to generally be in agreement that Joe Thomas isn't yielding a 1st in a trade...how about Tennessee now trying to make a move for him? One of those mid 2s might be too much but maybe 45 for Thomas and a 4th? Have an anchor in that spot to keep Mariota upright and allow him to develop, and turn your focus towards drafting a young guy in the mid rounds to develop for the position down the road. I never really understood the need to pair a young QB with a green LT. Seems like having an experienced player there gets much more bang for your buck.

 

[Thunderlips]

If the QB they want is a 15 year guy.....it's a bargain for the Rams.  They must think he is. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Is Lewan not a good enough LT?

 

[RUSF18]

Is Lewan not a good enough LT?

I don't know, I'm basing it off the nearly-universal agreement, before this trade, that TEN was going with Tunsil at #1. 

 

[FUBAR]

Is Lewan not a good enough LT?

Given the option of Thomas on the left avg lewan on the right?  That's very tempting.  Don't know that I'd give picks and pay his salary but it's worth considering. 

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Given the option of Thomas on the left avg lewan on the right?  That's very tempting.  Don't know that I'd give picks and pay his salary but it's worth considering. 

I guess I was talking about talking Tunsil or bust. But if they could get Thomas for a 4th/5th then sure.

 

[bud29]

Is Lewan not a good enough LT?

He's fine, but would probably be even better at RT - a position the Titans are pretty weak at. 

 

[FUBAR]

He's fine, but would probably be even better at RT - a position the Titans are pretty weak at. 

I'd have to admit, if the Titans walk away from this with a bunch of picks, trade for Thomas, with Murray signed, this will be a very good off season.  Might even contend for the division (the worst in the league but still....)

Eta: and the biggest reason to trade for Thomas might just be to help MM (can I call him slim shady? ) develop. 

 

[steelers1080]

What would the Titans have to trade to jump back up and grab Stanley?
I heard they liked him just as much as Tunsil, so if they have to trade less than 1, 2, 2, 3, 1, 3 to get him, then the trade was worth it...

 

[lod01]

To make a deal like this two weeks before the draft you absolutely have to know who it is for...if not you are not qualified to be the GM...

There are plenty of those in the NFL. The NFL is no different than the companies we (in the real world) work for. There are incompetents galore.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

The amount required to trade up drops significantly past pick 5-ish.

 

[Deranged Hermit]

What would the Titans have to trade to jump back up and grab Stanley?
I heard they liked him just as much as Tunsil, so if they have to trade less than 1, 2, 2, 3, 1, 3 to get him, then the trade was worth it...

They'd probably have to get a pick like 1.10 or so. Probably cost them a 3rd to jump 5 spots.

 

[JetMaxx]

What would the Titans have to trade to jump back up and grab Stanley?
I heard they liked him just as much as Tunsil, so if they have to trade less than 1, 2, 2, 3, 1, 3 to get him, then the trade was worth it...

I would imagine that if Stanley is there at 8 and Wentz/Goff are gone, the Eagles would consider something like #15, their 2nd rd pick back, and their 4th back from the Murray trade. 

 

[lod01]

Looks like the 49ers will get screwed out of a franchise level QB unless Cleveland can continue to screw up their pick.

 

[stbugs]

Looks like the 49ers will get screwed out of a franchise level QB unless Cleveland can continue to screw up their pick.

It would be just like the Browns to decide that they are tired of wasted 1st round picks on QBs due to Quinn, Weeden and Manziel and the guy they pass on becomes a franchise QB.

 

[FUBAR]

There are plenty of those in the NFL. The NFL is no different than the companies we (in the real world) work for. There are incompetents galore.

true, but in the NFL you would hope that the best 32 in the world would get to their position, top 50 at least. 

Then again, have you seen our POTUS nominees?  :X  

What would the Titans have to trade to jump back up and grab Stanley?
I heard they liked him just as much as Tunsil, so if they have to trade less than 1, 2, 2, 3, 1, 3 to get him, then the trade was worth it...

I would imagine that if Stanley is there at 8 and Wentz/Goff are gone, the Eagles would consider something like #15, their 2nd rd pick back, and their 4th back from the Murray trade. 

    but would the Titans have to move up?   http://walterfootball.com/draft2016.php

image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/titansb_logo.gif

Tennessee Titans: Ronnie Stanley, OT, Notre Dame


So, what are the Titans planning on doing at No. 15? Charlie Campbell has reported in the NFL Draft Rumor Mill that Tennessee is planning on taking a right tackle. Jack Conklin is expected to be the target, but Ronnie Stanley could be available. Many expect Stanley to go higher, but teams are concerned about his passion for football as well as his toughness. However, he might be too talented to pass up at this spot.
 

 

[lod01]

It would be just like the Browns to decide that they are tired of wasted 1st round picks on QBs due to Quinn, Weeden and Manziel and the guy they pass on becomes a franchise QB.

Or they could be like the Lions were with WR. Finally pick one of the best ever and still fail miserably including posting the only 0-16 season.

 

[EVHallofFamer]

Titans could trade right back up to 3 and still get tunsil.   Seems like an easy move if you loved Tunsil.  Plus the little bump they end up with from the first trade. 

 

[Bri]

exactly. it's a bizarre statement.

Everyone seems to think the Browns will pick second and select a QB. If they let the word out as to whom their pick was then, we would start chalking them up as going here n there.

If you read Peter King's article, he was privvy to some- discussing how they were at Tunsil's pro day etc. I assume they made it clear they didn't want the word out on whom they want to pick.

 

[Bucky86]

Titans could trade right back up to 3 and still get tunsil.   Seems like an easy move if you loved Tunsil.  Plus the little bump they end up with from the first trade. 

 Why do the trade in the first place then? No way they get the Chargers to move down 12 spots when they get the pick of the best non-QB in the draft.

 

[FUBAR]

 Why do the trade in the first place then? No way they get the Chargers to move down 12 spots when they get the pick of the best non-QB in the draft.

disagree there, but the Chargers sure wouldn't make it cheap.  They'd probably want 90% or more of what the Titans got in their deal.

 

[Bucky86]

disagree there, but the Chargers sure wouldn't make it cheap.  They'd probably want 90% or more of what the Titans got in their deal.

Agree. Should've added "without giving up what they got in the trade with the Rams." The #3 pick is now almost the equal to the #1(for non QB needy teams) before the trade went down since it's 99% likely two QB's go 1 and 2.

 

[matttyl]

In a league where teams are passing more, and more and more and more, how exactly are LT losing value?

The top 5 QBs in passing yards last year were Brees, Rivers, Brady, Palmer and Matt Ryan.  Only one of them had a starting LT last year picked in the top 15 of the NFL draft.  Most "NFL fans" wouldn't even be able to tell you which QB that is.

 

[FUBAR]

The top 5 QBs in passing yards last year were Brees, Rivers, Brady, Palmer and Matt Ryan.  Only one of them had a starting LT last year picked in the top 15 of the NFL draft.  Most "NFL fans" wouldn't even be able to tell you which QB that is.

when were their top RBs taken?   For that matter, IIRC only two of their top receivers were picked top 15. 

 

[matttyl]

when were their top RBs taken? 

1st (with a 1st rounder as a backup, though a 5th rounder took over when the first guy went down), 1st, undrafted with a guy off the street as well, 1st rounder supplanted by a 3rd rounder midseason, and 4th rounder

 

[Soulfly3]

@AdamSchefter  21s21 seconds agohttps://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/720695491709825024
Rams lean Jared Goff today, but one reason they made trade now was to get two weeks to debate top 2 QBs because "both are going to be good."

 

[FUBAR]

1st (with a 1st rounder as a backup, though a 5th rounder took over when the first guy went down), 1st, undrafted with a guy off the street as well, 1st rounder supplanted by a 3rd rounder midseason, and 4th rounder

how many of their top RBs were taken in the top 15? 

FWIW, Fluker and Peat (along with Jake) were top 15 picks.  although Fluker didn't pan out as a T, he's still starting on the line.  Which is part of the value Ts bring, they can usually play elsewhere on the line.

 

[matttyl]

how many of their top RBs were taken in the top 15? 

FWIW, Fluker and Peat (along with Jake) were top 15 picks. 

Posted above.  I think 3/5

 

[FUBAR]

Posted above.  I think 3/5

 

 

[Anarchy99]

Certainly having more picks and early round picks can turn a franchise around. My only concern for Titans fans is they haven't exactly hit it out of the park with they drafts in recent years. Over the past 10 seasons, here were all their picks in Rounds 1-3.

2006
3 QB Vince Young
45 RB LenDale White

2007
19 DB Michael Griffin
50 RB Chris Henry
80 WR Paul Williams

2008
24 RB Chris Johnson
54 DE Jason Jones
85 TE Craig Stevens

2009
30 WR Kenny Britt
62 DT Sen'Drick Marks
89 TE Jared Cook
94 DB Ryan Mouton

2010
16 DE Derrick Morgan
77 WR Damien Williams
97 LB Rennie Curran

2011
8 QB Jake Locker
39 LB Akeem Ayers
77 DT Jurrell Casey

2012
20 WR Kendall Wright
52 LB Zach Brown
82 DT Mike Martin

2013
10 G Chance Warmack
34 WR Justin Hunter
70 DB Blidi Wreh-Wilson
97 LB Zaviar Gooden

2014
11 T Talyor Lewan
54 RB Bishop Sankey

2015
2 QB Marcus Mariota
40 Dorial Green-Beckham
66 G Jeremiah Poutasi

Obviously not every pick is going to be a future HOFer, and the verdict is still out on some of the more recent picks. But overall I can't help but think that the Titans should have come away with some better players out of those drafts.

 

[matttyl]

 

Sorry, 3/5 were first rounders.  Ingram was 28th (though at least at the start of the season Spiller was the backup, and he was taken 9th - but he sucked).  Melvin Gordon was taken #15, but he sucked.  And to start the season Chris Johnson was the starting RB, and he was taken #24 in his class (though had folks known he was a 2,000 yard back he likely would have gone earlier).  I don't know why folks are asking about RBs, though - maybe I should go back and read the thread.