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RB Le'Veon Bell, FA - 9.6.21 Workout For Baltimore (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Eminence
- Start date
Bronco Billy
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I'm sure he would make himself available to play, but is it a #### move akin to forcing a player to accept consecutive one year contracts while running him into the ground with no care for his long term outlook?
Both sides are in the wrong here.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
You draft Bell with your first pick in that many leagues?Does anyone know how to set up a GoFundMe page?
Sure, I'd be willing to donate to the James Connor fund. I'd love to see him play 16 games.Does anyone know how to set up a GoFundMe page?
Steeler
Footballguy
He can't play without knowing the game plan, line calls, etc. Remember they have a new OC this year. Also, I realize many people are fixated on the rear view mirror but I'm looking forward to how this can play out in the best interest of all parties. Bell has to play 6 games for the Steelers at some point or somehow force the Steeler to rescind the tender. Bell can hold out for 10 games as far as I am concerned, but my biggest issue with him right now is that he is making the process more toxic (again, I'm not looking at the rear view, we are here now even if the Steelers screwed him over). Just tell the Steelers when you plan to sign the tender, be upfront about the reasons, and go from there.
mr. peanut
Footballguy
running backs just aren't worth what they think they are. if he was smart he would take the $15M, invest it and be very thankful. if i were the steelers i would cut him and use the cap money for more important positions. keep bringing in rookie galley slaves at running back on the cheap and use them till their bodies give out...
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Underachievers
Footballguy
tombonneau
Footballguy
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
Angry Beavers
Footballguy
He needs the 6 games to be able to a FA next year. if he isn't on the roster for 6 games then this year does not count and he can be tagged again next year as Season 2 of the tag. He is currently in Season 2 of the tag. That was put into the system to prevent players who get tagged from just skipping a season completely and then becoming a FA.
mr. peanut
Footballguy
exactly. he is not at all hard done by. the only issue here is he thinks a superstar running back is worth more than NFL GM's think a superstar running back is worth. he will not win this war. a rookie RB is a way better option than a Bell will ever be when you consider the price tag.
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brewer
Footballguy
tombonneau
Footballguy
Even if he is just COP guy that's better than most WW TEs. With the added upside of potential starting RB points at TE spot.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Sure - I’m not shedding tears for him but the Franchise Tag also restricted his true market value and while he made millions he also lost many more millions he could have potentially earned.
NJ
Footballguy
If all of this is over saving 20 touches on the season then that is just plain stupid in my opinion. I could at least understand the logic behind skipping 10 games, saving the mileage on the legs, reducing his risk of injury, etc.in exchange for a big payday next season with another team. But if he intends to report Saturday anyway and play out the rest of the year why not just tell everyone that? I'm failing to understand exactly what he gains by keeping his plans close to the vest if he is going to report in 2 to 3 days anyway? His idiot agent is on the radio talking #### about how he needs to put himself before the team, etc. He's alienating him from other players who are now annoyed with him and its getting ugly. Why let all that happen? It makes zero sense to me to let it all go this far if you're planning to report on Saturday anyway?
Steeler
Footballguy
It's to accrue this season and no longer be under the 2018 franchise tag.
ETA @Angry Beavers gave a better explanation a few posts up.
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I love some of the comments here on Conner.
The Steelers reached for him, he should've been a 5th rounder
You know who thought he was a 3rd rounder? The only people that matter in this equation.
He looks terrible! Well his O Line and coach sure as #### are talking him up. He also had the overwhelming bulk of the time with the starters in the preseason.
I can't predict the future, but Bell doesn't look like he is coming back anytime soon (unless he is really awful with how he manages his money, which is within the realm of possibilities). What I can do is figure out what is most probable... Simple math here:
- guy gets drafted in the 3rd
- guy spends all his time with the starters
- team/coach talk him up
That is the guy who gets first crack and the guy I want. You want to stash Samuels, go ahead... But the probability at this juncture is Conner is the guy. He can get hurt, suck, Bell can sign, Samuels can catch 3 80 yard TD passes on his first 3 snaps, anything can happen.
But as of this post, the prime target should be Conner.
The Steelers reached for him, he should've been a 5th rounder
You know who thought he was a 3rd rounder? The only people that matter in this equation. He looks terrible! Well his O Line and coach sure as #### are talking him up. He also had the overwhelming bulk of the time with the starters in the preseason.
I can't predict the future, but Bell doesn't look like he is coming back anytime soon (unless he is really awful with how he manages his money, which is within the realm of possibilities). What I can do is figure out what is most probable... Simple math here:
- guy gets drafted in the 3rd
- guy spends all his time with the starters
- team/coach talk him up
That is the guy who gets first crack and the guy I want. You want to stash Samuels, go ahead... But the probability at this juncture is Conner is the guy. He can get hurt, suck, Bell can sign, Samuels can catch 3 80 yard TD passes on his first 3 snaps, anything can happen.
But as of this post, the prime target should be Conner.
irish eyes
Footballguy
jtp1982
Footballguy
Also though I’d give Bell a good chunk of the credit for how much more an elite dual threat rookie RB earns now, in upfront cash, since he’s shown the league the value of that type of player.
Bell was signed to a 4 year contract for a little over 4 million dollars out of college but I’m not sure he got quite that much due to his injury. Barkley’s contract is a little over 31 million and it’s guaranteed money.
If Barkley has Bell’s career he’ll be thrilled so I don’t know if Bell will win this battle but I also don’t blame him for fighting it. He’s played a lot of football for the Steelers well below is market rate.
LawFitz
Footballguy
If Bell wants to maximize his own gain at the Steelers expense, he should report Saturday, then refuse to go into games once he hits whatever he feels is too many touches each week (or even play up the nicks and bruises he'll invevitably receive to sit out). Get his $14 MM this year, stay healthy and move the #### on. If you think teams won't pay him as a result, that might be fair, but I don't think it's realistic. All it takes is two teams to say they understand his "plight" and are willing to do whatever it takes to gain his services in 2019 and beyond. This is quickly becoming a huge cluster#### for the Stillers.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again here... Khalil Mack showed Leveon that you can play hardball with a team and get what you want. You just have to be willing to put yourself first above your teammates, your fans and even your own public image. #### you, pay me!
I've said it before, and I'll say it again here... Khalil Mack showed Leveon that you can play hardball with a team and get what you want. You just have to be willing to put yourself first above your teammates, your fans and even your own public image. #### you, pay me!
mr. peanut
Footballguy
no disagreement here. i just think he is overvaluing his worth. the franchise tag is a huge gift IMO. he should be paid 4 x $5M. instead he gets offered 1 x $15M and says no? the reason he is saying no is he knows he is declining already and wants a long term deal because he may be worth 0 next year. if he knows this so do NFL GM's thats why he is not getting paid. if he were a free agent today he might get 4 x $8M tops.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Sammy Watkins just signed a three-year, $48 million contract. The deal includes $30 million guaranteed. SAMMY WATKINS.
mr. peanut
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Snorkelson
Footballguy
Conner is the back to own, but is likely already owned, so taking a flyer on samuels especially with a te designation is worth a spot.tombonneau said:
![[icon]](/data/avatars/m/5/5167.jpg?1660313464){kind=avatar}
mr. peanut
Footballguy
usually not a good idea to get into a battle with a child here but i'd like to ask why you feel my math is off?
i feel he is worth 4 x $8M on the open market. maybe 4 x $10M if we want to be generous. if we assume 4x$10M open market, taking a $15M franchise tag and then signing a 3 x $7M deal still is better than the 4x$10M deal no?
should be easy to get a 3x$7M next year unless he knows he is done and wants long term money locked up before others realize it.
although you could just be a frittata that thinks a RB is worth $10M+/year
Given the most recent comparable (Gurley), how would you meaningfully argue an RB of a certain level of talent is NOT worth $10+M/year?
Hairy Snowman
Footballguy
I think he will play a minimum of 8 games. I think that those numbers will be easy for a guy coming in fresh late in the season playing for a franchise trying to use his talent. Easy.irish eyes said:
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I mean, to start, what you feel here is really irrelevant and doesn't reflect reality. The Steelers offered him $14MM a season over 5 years that he turned down before the deadline, so while your feelings are $8MM or possibly $10MM, the reality of an actual offer from an NFL franchise was 40% higher than your stretch valuation.
You almost have it right. He thinks a superstar running back is worth more than Pittsburgh's GM thinks a superstar running back is worth.mr. peanut said:
YOUR value of RB worth is also wrong. You say you think Bell is worth 4 years @$5M. Dion Lewis got 4 years/$20M. Devonte Freeman got 5 years/$41M. McCoy got 5 years, $40M. Jerick McKinnon got 4 years/$30M. Your belief that Bell is "valued" at 4 year/$5M per year is ignorant nonsense, completely out of touch with NFL reality.
I get that you are trying to make a point about RB value, but you are wrong, and using ridiculous numbers that are easily, factually disproved merely emphasizes that point.
Bell is MUCH closer to Gurley's 4 year/$57M contract than he is to your 4 year/$20M idea.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
jtp1982
Footballguy
If I have one criticism of what Bell’s going for as far as resetting RB contracts its that trying to get paid on the back half of a career isn’t going to be as effective as trying to change rookie contracts on the front end.
Best way to fix RB pay is building some kind of guaranteed pay incentive structure into the original rookie contract. Base it on some combination of yardage, number or carries, making playoffs, etc. ...
What you want to keep from happening is an Andre Ellington type situation where Bruce Arians rode the kid into the ground and got millions of dollars of value out of a kid making 5-700K while his body was beaten down to the point where he’ll never be able to see those millions.
Pay them their value as they earn it with incentives, goals, etc. ... Exactly how they pay anybody in a sales job.
Best way to fix RB pay is building some kind of guaranteed pay incentive structure into the original rookie contract. Base it on some combination of yardage, number or carries, making playoffs, etc. ...
What you want to keep from happening is an Andre Ellington type situation where Bruce Arians rode the kid into the ground and got millions of dollars of value out of a kid making 5-700K while his body was beaten down to the point where he’ll never be able to see those millions.
Pay them their value as they earn it with incentives, goals, etc. ... Exactly how they pay anybody in a sales job.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
mr. peanut said:
5 million a year for one if the best offensive weapons in the league. 
steelers1080
Footballguy
THIS ISN'T HOW ROOKIE CONTRACTS WORK.jtp1982 said:
They're 100% based on the CBA. Bell had 0 to do with how much Barkley is making, it's 100% due to his draft slot. No rookie has benefited from Bell, except if you think they got drafted higher because Bell is good. If he can reset the market value of RBs then he has a shot at affecting their 2nd contract, but he hasn't and won't affect any rookie contracts. That's just silly.
mr. peanut
Footballguy
not all GMs are dumb enough to give a Gurley deal. I don't think 1 player makes the market. I would say Freeman is a better comparison here and that was a huge overpay. Smart GM's do not pay $10M+ on a RB. no need to. there are practice squad guys that can step in and compete with the right opportunity. no such luck with OL, DL or QB.
matttyl
Footballguy
Gurley is 24 (actually just turned 24 last month), while Bell is 27 two weeks after the Super Bowl. Gurley also has zero off the field issues, for whatever that's worth. I also believe that Gurley was paid way too much (nearly 75% more than the next highest paid guy at the same position, in terms of average $ per year). I think 10 a year for 3 (depending on how many years and how it's guaranteed) is about right.
steelers1080
Footballguy
It also makes a huge difference that they're paying their QB on his rookie salary. They have way more money to divvy out, they can afford to overpay compared to the market.
irish eyes
Footballguy
He may be there for 8 games but why would they use him. He has already said needs to take care of himself and stay healthy. No way would I run him out there, he could care less what the team does.
jtp1982
Footballguy
Barkley definitely got drafted higher because of Bell. Not just Bell but the whole recent trend of dual threat RBs Bell is the prime example of.
I don’t know how many years it’s been since an RB went #2 but it’s been an insanely long time. The league changes, its changed to value guys that can run and catch and ya, Bell’s one of the key ones that has made that change.
That’s why Bell’s not insane when he says he wants to get paid like an elite offensive weapon and not just an RB. A team just drafted a rookie they think might have Bell’s skills set some day like an elite offensive weapon and not just an RB
BoltNlava
Footballguy
Who's to say what quality of life is worth? Surly not you or I. We do not play this game and don't cash the checks. He is due what he is due or he'll try to make more for his inability to literally potentially walk away from this game and play with his kids and grandchildren. FF don't mean ####.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Not sure what you are getting at with this replyBassNBrew said:
jtd13
Footballguy
True that. I honestly can't say I'd carry the ball 400 times against NFL defenders for any amount of money.
NeverEnough
Footballguy
Even w/o the TE designation he is if you have the room. Yahoo is the only place that has him as a TE FYI
mr. peanut
Footballguy
this guy gets it. gurley is a one off not a market rate. it was a dumb contract for the Rams but they can get away with it. bell and his agent are idiots if they hold out. his market rate is not what he thinks it is. market rate is not determined by production, it is determined by supply and demand like anything else. there are hundreds of guys that can be running backs in the NFL. there are not hundreds of guys that can be OL,DL or QB in the NFL.
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