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Stormy Daniels scandal thread (2 Viewers)

Koya said:
Really? A President and his legal are using threats of violence and other coercive measures in addition to promoting fraudulent misrepresentation is ok with you?

Has our bar been lowered that far?
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When we have messes like this one where there's all kinds of potential crap that went on, I tend to focus on the things not left to the "he said, she said" standard.  Honestly, I don't know if there was ever a guy who walked up to her and threatened her as she claimed.  It's not that I don't care, I just don't know how we'll ever know the truth so I tend to focus on the other things :shrug:  

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I must say, I do not recall Ditka Butkis being like this.  it disturbs me.  I sincerely hope that the common elements in our screen names does not cause others to conflate the two of us. 

Anyhow,  have fun discussing the events of the day. 
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Like what... Willing to see the fault in both parties involved.. I’m fairly confident that most these posters are very successful in their chosen fields. If they spend even a tenth of the energy  on their work that they spend on their hatred for Trump it would be impossible not to be.

 
The Commish said:
When we have messes like this one where there's all kinds of potential crap that went on, I tend to focus on the things not left to the "he said, she said" standard.  Honestly, I don't know if there was ever a guy who walked up to her and threatened her as she claimed.  It's not that I don't care, I just don't know how we'll ever know the truth so I tend to focus on the other things :shrug:  
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Stormy said she'd recognize the guy.  Others have described being similarly threatened by Trump associates.  It isn't like we have nothing to go on here.  Plus, after Stormy describing this on national TV, we may even learn about more stories from people who were afraid to come forward.

 
TobiasFunke said:
It's a sign of just how much Trump has lowered the bar that "the President had a bunch of hired goons who threatened people on his behalf" is just a small part of the narrative at the moment.
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No one said a bunch.  Thus far I have heard allegations of maybe up to four matters, including this one.  Certainly a single goon could have kept up that schedule and had time to run to the store for Depends.  A bunch!  Exaggerate much?

 
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The Commish said:
When we have messes like this one where there's all kinds of potential crap that went on, I tend to focus on the things not left to the "he said, she said" standard.  Honestly, I don't know if there was ever a guy who walked up to her and threatened her as she claimed.  It's not that I don't care, I just don't know how we'll ever know the truth so I tend to focus on the other things :shrug:  
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Will we know for sure?  Maybe not.  >95% likely, though? I think so. It fits an established pattern of behavior from Trump and his associates perfectly, and Daniels' credibility regarding the affair has been sky-high throughout. She's told an identical story seven years apart, has corroborating witnesses, took a lie-detector test, and has no particular reason to embellish.

 
Sand said:
Clinton got impeached for lying to Congress, if I recall.  Edwards got caught up in his affair during the election - bad timing.  The electorate is a fickle beast.

I have no idea if Trump would have gotten a pass during the election process if this came out.  I suspect not.
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Not to mention I think Edwards wife had cancer at the time.

 
The Commish said:
When we have messes like this one where there's all kinds of potential crap that went on, I tend to focus on the things not left to the "he said, she said" standard.  Honestly, I don't know if there was ever a guy who walked up to her and threatened her as she claimed.  It's not that I don't care, I just don't know how we'll ever know the truth so I tend to focus on the other things :shrug:  
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While we may not be able to make any hard and fast judgements, the reality is as humans we take what information we have, and when there is a pattern of behavior, especially one that is literally decades long, of throwing one's weight around, engaging in fraudulent practices and other illegal acts... I could go on... at that point, you have to give such allegations more merit.  It doesn't "prove" them to be the case... but then again, Trump continues to act as guilty as can be in so many ways.

To discount this, even if it's not the highest burden of proof, would seem more irresponsible than to acknowledge where such accusations and potential activities fall considering all that we know about who and what Trump is as a person, and how he has conducted himself business wise and personally over the years.  At the least, there's a decent chance that at least some of this is true, and it warrants further investigation considering the target is the sitting President, who has engaged in such tactics as his general M.O. for decades, and who through it all acts quilty as sin.

Doesn't mean he IS guilty of it all.. but if you are a better man...

 
Sinn Fein said:
Melania will divorce him at some point.  They all do...

My guess he has a an infidelity clause with a fixed amount for each dalliance.  I also assume there is a specific, separate, financial arrangement tied to not divorcing Trump while he is president.  By all appearances, they live mostly separate lives, so she will cash in once the presidency is over - whenever that occurs.
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I’m not following why folks think there may be an infidelity clause in the prenup. Given that he is a serial philanderer, why would he agree to such a clause?  It’s not like she had leverage over him did she?  He could put the prenup he wanted in front of her, and if she refused to sign, he could kick her to the curb. If there’s a prenup, I would imagine it being as one-sided and onerous as the Stormy Daniels NDA. Perhaps I’m missing something. 

 
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Ditka Butkus said:
Trump as a person is a piece of ####... What do you think of the women who slept with him ?
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Even from a misogyny shtick or devil's advocate POV I'm not even sure what the argument is anymore. Are you just debating who has more or less or the same integrity or lack thereof at this point?

 
The Indestructible said:
The Commish said:
When we have messes like this one where there's all kinds of potential crap that went on, I tend to focus on the things not left to the "he said, she said" standard.  Honestly, I don't know if there was ever a guy who walked up to her and threatened her as she claimed.  It's not that I don't care, I just don't know how we'll ever know the truth so I tend to focus on the other things :shrug:  
Click to expand...
Stormy said she'd recognize the guy.  Others have described being similarly threatened by Trump associates.  It isn't like we have nothing to go on here.  Plus, after Stormy describing this on national TV, we may even learn about more stories from people who were afraid to come forward.
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And I'm ok with revisiting this once more information comes out.  It will be piling on at that point.  I'm not against it.  I just find the other knowable parts more compelling at this point in the story.

 
bigbottom said:
I’m not following why folks think there may be an infidelity clause in the prenup. Given that he is a serial philanderer, why would he agree to such a clause?  It’s not like she had leverage over him did she?  He could put the prenup he wanted in front of her, and if she refused to sign, he could kick her to the curb. If there’s a prenup, I would imagine it being as one-sided and onerous as the Stormy Daniela NDA. Perhaps I’m missing something. 
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I agree completely.

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Not to mention I think Edwards wife had cancer at the time.
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Yeah, that was pretty scummy.  But when you defense is "well, at least my wife who was about to bear my child didn't have cancer while I cheated on yet another wife, followed by threats and coercive measures to keep the dirty sleazy* porn star quiet"

* But not too dirty and sleazy to cheat on with, as my wife is about to give birth.  Yeah, hard to have it both ways. If you want to discount anything Stormy says because she's a porn star, well, she's a porn star.  Trump seems to have been the one that on all fronts seems to be the sleazier of the two here, seeing as he's down to bed that sleaze porn star while wife is pregnant

 
Koya said:
While we may not be able to make any hard and fast judgements, the reality is as humans we take what information we have, and when there is a pattern of behavior, especially one that is literally decades long, of throwing one's weight around, engaging in fraudulent practices and other illegal acts... I could go on... at that point, you have to give such allegations more merit.  It doesn't "prove" them to be the case... but then again, Trump continues to act as guilty as can be in so many ways.

To discount this, even if it's not the highest burden of proof, would seem more irresponsible than to acknowledge where such accusations and potential activities fall considering all that we know about who and what Trump is as a person, and how he has conducted himself business wise and personally over the years.  At the least, there's a decent chance that at least some of this is true, and it warrants further investigation considering the target is the sitting President, who has engaged in such tactics as his general M.O. for decades, and who through it all acts quilty as sin.

Doesn't mean he IS guilty of it all.. but if you are a better man...
Click to expand...
Discounting is not a fair characterization of my position.  Let me put it this way......I have 10,000 pieces of information pointing me to Trump being a POS as a human.  I'd rather focus on the pieces of information that would point me to him breaking laws than on piece 10,001 pointing to him being a POS because breaking the law here is what's going to get him out of office faster than pointing out what a POS he is.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I must say, I do not recall Ditka Butkis being like this.  it disturbs me.  I sincerely hope that the common elements in our screen names does not cause others to conflate the two of us. 

Anyhow,  have fun discussing the events of the day. 
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It's all the dame DITKA based aliases here.

Thanks, bub.

 
The Commish said:
Discounting is not a fair characterization of my position.  Let me put it this way......I have 10,000 pieces of information pointing me to Trump being a POS as a human.  I'd rather focus on the pieces of information that would point me to him breaking laws than on piece 10,001 pointing to him being a POS because breaking the law here is what's going to get him out of office faster than pointing out what a POS he is.
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Then we are in agreement... I'm not looking at the evidence of coercion, setting her up with fraudulent representation and threats of physical violence as more proof Trumps a POS.  I'm looking at that evidence, in the context of all I stated, because it's illegal, immoral, unethical and should unto itself be disqualifying for the office of President.  That's a legal issue, not a POS issue (though obviously with Trump the two seem to often go hand in hand)

 
bigbottom said:
I’m not following why folks think there may be an infidelity clause in the prenup. Given that he is a serial philanderer, why would he agree to such a clause?  It’s not like she had leverage over him did she?  He could put the prenup he wanted in front of her, and if she refused to sign, he could kick her to the curb. If there’s a prenup, I would imagine it being as one-sided and onerous as the Stormy Daniels NDA. Perhaps I’m missing something. 
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I'm going to say there may not be such a clause, but there may be a moral turpitude or public embarrassment clause. So, for instance. ok sleep around but do so without risking disease with unprotected sex with porn/sex stars, or say other acts that have been alleged elsewhere. Or, ok sleep around but don't let it become public.

- eta - I really say this because I think speculating on why Trump is so eager to shut down stories about his private sex life is key here.

 
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Sand said:

This whole thing - rich guy pays for sex. :yawn: Never liked him, still don't like him, but this whole thing is nothing but a 4th estate revenge plot come to fruition.
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I would be right there with you except for the possible campaign violations. That's what makes this "scandal" much bigger than a typical tabloid sex story.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Even from a misogyny shtick or devil's advocate POV I'm not even sure what the argument is anymore. Are you just debating who has more or less or the same integrity or lack thereof at this point?
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Part of the liberal problem is they can’t stay focused., Hang your hats on the Russians  not on a sex romp payoff with a couple of cheap floozies prior to the presidency 

 
I don't know that this "bunch of goons" libel should stand.  Any one well motivated goon could have easily handled the amount of gooning thus far disclosed. To suggest that the goon needed some sort of goon squad to do his work impugns his work ethic.  Plus, we all know that if Donald hired a goon he would have gotten the best, simply the best goon, not one in need of assistance.  I believe you owe the goon an apology. 

 
It's not the whores that are the problem, its the payoffs.  Obviously this speaks to Trump's willingness to go to great lengths to not get his whoring in the open.  Which then begs the question about whether there is Russian whore-kompromat in the mix.  Which brings us right back to the pee tapes.  

 
Ditka Butkus said:
Part of the liberal problem is they can’t stay focused., Hang your hats on the Russians  not on a sex romp payoff with a couple of cheap floozies prior to the presidency 
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But Trump is a failure in so many different ways, I don't think it would be wise to ignore most of them just to focus on one.

Diversification and all that.

 
saintfool said:
You're more or less right. Daniels relationship with Trump isn't the story here really. It opens the door to Mueller, I suppose, and a Dem congress that could go after him finally with the payments to her. 
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I really hope Mueller doesn't go after this.  That was part of problem with Whitewater investigation that Starr investigated things that had nothing to do with original purpose of the investigation.  Mueller should stick to Russia because if he digs into this it is going to kill his credibility on Russia.  

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
No one said a bunch.  Thus far I have heard allegations of maybe up to four matters, including this one.  Certainly a single goon could have kept up that schedule and had time to run to the store for Depends.  A bunch!  Exaggerate much?
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So, which number of goons threatening people is ok? I assume from your above comments (which I find wildly out of character) that the number is above zero?

 
Sand said:
Clinton got impeached for lying to Congress, if I recall.  Edwards got caught up in his affair during the election - bad timing.  The electorate is a fickle beast.

I have no idea if Trump would have gotten a pass during the election process if this came out.  I suspect not.
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Lol.  About a BJ.  Why isn't Trump testifying under oath to anything?  Whether it's Russian involvement or sex with Stormy, The Playboy Bunny, the Apprentice sexual assault, or any of the other 18 women who came forward, Trump is guaranteed to lie about all of them. Do you think the man who lies with nearly every sentence he speaks is going to somehow be truthful when he testifies?  All I've heard from the right for the last 20 years is what a womanizing scumbag Bill Clinton is. Now they've chosen to idolize a genuine adulterous, sexual abuser and all of that is fine because he's orange and can do no wrong in their eyes. The lack of self-awareness and hypocrisy by the right is astonishing.

 
msommer said:
So, which number of goons threatening people is ok? I assume from your above comments (which I find wildly out of character) that the number is above zero?
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I thought the tone was obviously facetious.  If not I thought the run to the store to pick up Depends comment made my sarcasm apparent.  Apparently not.  I apologize.  I find any threatening of a young mother whether in the presence of their child, or outside of it, abhorrent.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
I don't know that this "bunch of goons" libel should stand.  Any one well motivated goon could have easily handled the amount of gooning thus far disclosed. To suggest that the goon needed some sort of goon squad to do his work impugns his work ethic.  Plus, we all know that if Donald hired a goon he would have gotten the best, simply the best goon, not one in need of assistance.  I believe you owe the goon an apology. 
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Ahem ...
 

Days before he was to reveal this information to board members at Trump Palace, Bajrushi fell ill and sent his wife and 12-year-old son to retrieve items from his office. They were gathering paperwork, according to a suit Bajrushi later filed, when someone used a screwdriver to bust the lock. The door burst open and a team of Trump security officials poured in.

According to the lawsuit, four men prevented Hatixbe Bajrushi and her son from leaving. Matthew Calamari, the hulking head of security, shoved the boy. Trump’s brother-in-law, James Grau, barked questions, demanding to know why they were there. Michael Nicoll, another guard, pushed them back when they tried to leave. Grau snatched her purse and passed it to Calamari, Nicoll, and Domenic Pezzo to rifle through.
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That's in addition to Cohen threatening Buzzfeed with violence for running the Ivana rape story. I suppose it's possible that one of the Trump Palace goons was also responsible for threatening phone call to the Trump investors' bankruptcy attorney, the threat to the NYC Housing Commissioner regarding tax treatment of the construction of Trump Tower and the threats to Daniels and her child.  But the threat described above happened in 1995 and Trump Tower was built between 1979 and 1983, so if it was the same goons those goons probably would have been senior citizens when they got around to threatening Stormy on Trump's behalf in 2011. But even it he used geriatric goons to threaten Stormy we're still at a minimum of 5 goons.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Ahem ...
 

That's in addition to Cohen threatening Buzzfeed with violence for running the Ivana rape story. I suppose it's possible that one of the Trump Palace goons was also responsible for threatening phone call to the Trump investors' bankruptcy attorney, the threat to the NYC Housing Commissioner regarding tax treatment of the construction of Trump Tower and the threats to Daniels and her child.  But the threat described above happened in 1995 and Trump Tower was built between 1979 and 1983, so if it was the same goons those goons probably would have been senior citizens when they got around to threatening Stormy on Trump's behalf in 2011. But even it he used geriatric goons to threaten Stormy we're still at a minimum of 5 goons.
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You know, when I am wrong I admit it.  I am wrong.

 
timschochet said:
Because the 24 News cycle has turned out to be incapable of focusing on more than one story at a time. 
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"The candidate/nominee/president-elect/president is a corrupt sleazy criminal who is incompetent when it comes to nearly everything except for his remarkable talent for self-promotion" is a 4 year running story. This is just the latest iteration of it. If porn star spanking tales get the underlying story across to a few more Americans whose eyes glaze over at the mention of money laundering or self-dealing with campaign funds, that's cool with me.

 
sho nuff said:
What do you have against shark week?
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He thinks if he buries his head in the sand long enough, it'll all be gone when he decides to pop hi head back up.   But this tweet is 100% right. He has been told by his lawyers to not say a thing about it. The campaign contribution/pay-off/threats thing is a huge deal. Not the fact that he's a womanizing scumbag.

 
How difficult (I’m intentionally avoiding using the term hard here) do you think it is for him not to tweet about this?  NO COLLUSION

 
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