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If you truly thought that those players would give you the best chance of winning, I have no issue. But, if you're trying to cover up tanking by saying that you have a gut feeling about normally lesser players out-scoring normal studs, you won't get kicked out right away but I suspect someone with that type of integrity would try to do something shady another time and would eventually do something that would warrent being kicked out. It would just be a matter of time.
x 1,000,000That is such a weak line of reasoning. CB, You really should take a step back from your post for a minute and just drink in how bad the logic is. If you submit that lineup in our league you're either getting booted or losing your 1st round draft pick next year, and I don't think the reaction from any other reasonable league would be much different. Your whole argument loses credibility when you try to support it with silly examples like that.
LOL! When you can't come up with a good argument just turn to the Red Scare!! The commies are coming for your fantasy league! And picking up kickers and defenses every week based on match-ups isn't what we are talking about here.
You can't tell anyone who to set in their lineup if the rules allow changes after 1pm. As long as you field a full team, its within the rules.
You can't tell anyone who to set in their lineup if the rules allow changes after 1pm. As long as you field a full team, its within the rules.
I understand that you think it's weak...but you don't really say why. You call it "legitimately picking up players," but that's your bias. You don't need those guys and your opponent does. Don't you want to beat him at his best? You really want to win because a guy couldn't get a kicker? I guess you do. So do I. Your bench doesn't exist to horde one position you don't need, but you're bending the intent to help yourself. You see that as totally okay...but not intentionally hurting your team is wrong? You're not applying the same standard. It's just "different" in your head. But we both know that the purpose of a bench is not to gobble up every option at kicker your opponent could choose when playing against you. It's legal...but you also think it's ethical? Seems inconsistent.It doesn't really seem like a grey area. It doesn't affect the outcome of a game, and an owner is trying to improve their team. To not do it seems like hurting your team for no reason at all.
you seriously can't tell the difference? Picking up players who might not be "needed" are just commodities with value. You then try to take that value and exchange it for something that is worth more to you than what you picked up. Which is what every team should be trying to do and has nothing to do with tanking.And the team that might need a kicker can get one from one of the ten other teams in the league.
Best lineup can be subjective also. With limited bench spot in one league I draft with the bye weeks in mind. I try to line up the byes so that most end up on the same week and I just tank that week.
We have short rosters - 17 spots, so that isn't going to happen in my league. If someone is gonna go and hold 5 or 6 kickers or something, that is excessive, but I assume they are having to release talent from other positions to do so right??
Some things aren't clear here, so I'm going to assume some things, but this is what I get out of the OP:1. OP is currently losing this week by 65 points and doesn't think he'll win the game with Jennings and Finley in the lineup tonight as they'd need to score a lot. A loss is a given in his eyes.2. OP is currently sitting 35 points behind the next lowest scoring team in his league, thus he currently sits at the top of the waiver wire order.3. OP is worried that if he keeps Jennings and Finley in his starting lineup they could conceivably score 35+ points, thus moving him down to the second slot on the waiver wire order.4. OP moving down the waiver wire order would effectively "lose" him his shot at McGahee because he "knows" the team currently behind him will pick McGahee should their waiver wire order ranking get switched.5. OP is permitted, by rules, to alter his starting lineup (with regards to players playing tonight) prior to tonight's game.6. (An assumption) OP must submit a complete starting lineup.7. (An assumption) OP has a WR & TE on his bench still available to put in his starting lineup prior to the start of tonight's game.If all these are all true then I don't have a problem with the OP doing what is best for his team as he sees fit. He feels his team cannot win tonight, but could lose not only the weekly matchup but also his standing in the waiver wire ranking if he keeps Jennings and Finley in his starting roster. If he can legally switch out these 2 players for other players that are playing tonight then I don't see the problem here. He is assuming a loss in the matchup and trying to ensure that his team remains at the top of the waiver order to secure the backup RB he needs because he lost Rice this weekend. As commissioner, I would allow this and wouldn't think twice about it. If the OP does not have any players to put into his starting lineup in place of Jennings and Finley and he wants to leave those slots blank, I would have a problem with this if he must submit a complete lineup. If there are no rules stating each team must submit a complete lineup, then he is walking a thin line and I would have issues with it but until a rule was in place to ensure it never happened it would have to be allowed. It would be shady though and would harm the integrity of the league, especially since he is the commissioner. Others will surely use this loophole to their advantage later in the year.Some rules and/or facts are missing from the OP which led me to use assumptions.RodyETA: I would also like to state that if I was in the OP's position and everything I laid out above was true then I would switch out Jennings and Finley in an effort to ensure I maintained my position atop the waiver wire order. Yes, maybe I should already have McGahee on my team, but I don't and that is regardless at this point. I need to maintain that top waiver priority and if sitting Jennings and Finley will accomplish that then I will do it. Especially when it is completely within the rules as I understand them. Again, I am going on a number of assumptions here and if either of those assumptions were wrong then I wouldn't do what the OP is suggesting.pipman33 said:
So you are saying you have not dignity. Check.
Do you also try to line-up against your 8 year-old niece at the Thanksgiving family football game, instead of your 22 year old cousin, so you can beat her for TDs everytime?And yes, I'm one of those people who would rather lose with dignity, which I have done outside of fantasy football as well. i coach high school rugby and a few years ago we were in the semi-finals, down by 5 points with basically no time left. Both coaches were line judges because the two league ones failed to show. Our guys got the ball to the outside, the player was right along the sidelines, broke a tackle and would have scored but his foot did touch out of bounds. the ref was out of position and could not have possibly seen it and it was the opposite side of the fans and benches. Would have won the game if i hadn't raised the flag.And I don't want to seem self-righteous because I'm the dirtiest player when I did play sports and pushed the rules to the limit during competition...
You're not going to use those kickers. Ever. You'll dump them the next week. You're just using your bench to prevent your opponent from having a kicker. It's legal, but is it ethical? Wouldn't you rather face a full team and win with dignity and pride? Aren't you abusing the bench? Would you feel good about winning that way?We both think it's a clever move. You're doing what you can to help your team win. Not very sporting of you, but within the rules. I just don't think refusing to help your team when it DOES NOT affect any games, outcomes, standings, playoffs or seedings is okay, too. I don't see the dignity in purposely hurting your own team.
Uh....I did!By halftime at thatDid the OP jump back into this firestorm? I'd be interested which way they are leaning after both sides have been argued.No one has pointed out that Finley should easily score 65 himself.
That's not preventing him from having a kicker. That's only preventing your opponent from having the only kicker that is left on the waiver wire. Would be simple for him to trade for another kicker and you just wasted a roster spot. I wouldn't bother doing it and wouldn't care if someone else did.it would be helpful to see the full rules on play-off seeding and tie breakers before you say it "DOES NOT" affect anything at all.Edit to add: It certainly does affect games going forward. Teams will start to look at takin gplayers out of the afternoon games to ensure the lowest point total, if they have no chance to win when they run into an opponent who happens to get 4 Chris Johnson TDs and 4 Michael Vick TDs and 2 Lance Moore TDs in the morning game. It's just a slippery slope.
The OP didn't really clarify what he was doing. He stated "Throwing game" and it got people in a tizzy.
No. Reading comprehension down?
It's harder to trade for a kicker, especially if you're up against the game deadline. I agree it's good play, but it's using your bench for something other than its intention, and it's not "sporting" to deny your opponent a kicker. Why wouldn't you want to beat them at their best? Where's your "integrity?" I don't see why one is considered creative and the other terrible. In both cases you're trying to help your team succeed.I also don't buy the pulling players out argument. Every fantasy owner has stories about getting crushed in the early gams...only to rally in the afternoon ones. Everyone knows it can happen. I don't see it.
Your words not mine, but I was admittedly stretching a bit. I'm getting off track here and headed towards the attacking posts I dislike to read from others. This really comes down to a personal values judgement on how far each of us is willing to go to win. Some of us are willing to go farther into the gray than others and just as I have strong feelings on this and won't change my opinion, it is the same for those of you arguing for this behavior. So be it!I play in one league mostly friends I've known for 20+ years. It's not a league where I'd be willing to shave to points for waiver priority - there is a camaraderie and friendship factor to this league as well. To those that see no issue with shaving the points, would you be more likely to do this in a league with no personal ties to the other owners, or less likely to do so in a league with close friends (lets say it's not a big $$ league)? Just curious.
Are there leagues where every one of the 32 kickers are rostered? I mean do guys really roster 5 or 6 kickers to do this? If so, that seems kinda dooshy to me as well. I just play in a short roster 10 team league, so I don't have this experience.
I have never heard of a team filling his bench with kickers and defenses so his opponents cant have one. Makes no sense. What I have seen is someone pickup and drop all available kickers so they are all on waivers and unavailable.
It would be pretty obvious tanking here is you benched Finley and Jennings on Monday after the game seems out of reach, and inserted 2 scrubs...Besides, the question wasn't whether or not you'd be caught, it was whether or not it's ethical...
You nork, you don't even live in the US, go watch some lawn darts, real men are talking about sports here..
churning is definitely unethical... And is specifically spelled out in the set of rules I use... I won't play in leagues where people tank or churn... If you do, I'm sorry for you..
What you described seems bogus to me, because you're taking advantage of limitations in the software. That's not a league rule as much as a limitation of the league site. Big difference. In a large league with big rosters, when you throw in bye weeks it can be done. I've considered it, but didn't want to part with my bench. But I've seen it done, and people complained.
Guess only your hypothetical situations are realistic....
people have been known to pick up and then drop every available kicker when an opponent needed a kicker in leagues that lock players till the next waiver period after they have been dropped... That's called Churning and it's for scum bags..Games are supposed to be fun, once someone starts pulling BS tactics it's no longer fun and I'll move on to another league if it's not corrected..Play the game the way it was intended....
Sorry, I thought you had been playing fantasy football for a while now. Okay, here's what happens. A team might be way down in the early games; looks insurmountable. But when the afternoon games have been played, that owner has caught up and is only a little bit behind or has taken a lead. If you play long enough, it will happen to you.Once it does, you realize that team won't bench players if they're down after the early games. As people who have pleyed before, they know a comeback is very realistic. It's what makes the game so great.It's also what separates that unrealistic example from what the OP said. That's why I didn't buy the "people will bench players if they're behind early" argument. If you play long enough, you know that lead can evaporate quickly.So it's not that only my hypothetical situations are realistic; it's that, in this thread, I'm using realistic ones. Does that make sense?
We're not talking about judging someones line up... He himself already said he was considering tanking... That question has already been answered.. The question you're left with.. 'Is it Ethical/Unethical'?
Not sure if you're serious here but understand that patronizing me, doesn't make your argument any better..Everyone knows what the average score is of a said player... It is very possible to be down by so much after the 1pm games to know you won't come back... Especially if most of your players played at 10pm.. or if all of your studs have played and did nothing this week...
Yea, set a president that you'll push the envelope if it means gaining an advantage over another team .... every chance you get... You shouldn't ever have any trouble finding people to join leagues you commish...Should be a really fun league...
Sorry, I thought you were being serious. If you really think that owners will bench their starters because they're down a lot after the early games...I can only assume you haven't played enough to see the comebacks that are so common in this game. I mean, it happens all the time. If you're a vet (which I assumed originally) then you're well aware that the OP's scenario is realistic, and people benching players because of a deficit after the early games is unrealistic. I never said only my scenarios are realistic; that was you. Not sure why you said it if you already knew owners won't pull their starters due to a deficit after the early games.
It is possible to have all but 2-3 of your players play in the early games... How is that different then the OP's situation?
How is this trying to get an advantage by pushing the envelope every chance you get? The outcome of the game has already been decided. The winners still won; the losers still lost.Yea, set a president that you'll push the envelope if it means gaining an advantage over another team .... every chance you get... You shouldn't ever have any trouble finding people to join leagues you commish...Should be a really fun league...
Oh the pickup and drop is definitely a garbage move, but it is very often used. Especially in leagues like CBS where everyone is strangers. Even with a large bench, to pick up every kicker you would need to almost empty your bench players and make all of your reserves available. Seems like a huge price to pay for one win and the kicker points probably won't effect the outcome either way. If someone was crazy enough to gut their team to stop me from getting a kicker for one week, I wouldn't complain but encourage it as their putting themselves in a hole the rest of the way. Regardless, what you do with your bench is your own business and filling it with kickers may be stupid but not unethical. No different than if your opponents RB got hurt and you picked up the backup knowing he will never play for you, but dont want the other team to have him.
