What is up with FBGs Projections? (1 Viewer)

[Chaka]

Heaven forbid you think for yourself.

Ok, I'll think for myself a minute….. This is a forum on a pay for information fantasy football site that you have been a member of for over six years. I think you probably get lots of good information from this site that has helped you make better roster/lineup decisions. And you're just arrogant enough to imply that you are just "thinking for yourself". Heaven forbid, I think that's just a wee bit hypocritical of you.

SUCCESS!!!

 

[OU#1]

Here is the schedule I'd like to see:

Tuesday

Updated Upgrades/Waiver - Waldman and staff

The Marketplace - Tefertiller

Lineup Dominator - Henderson

Custom Top 250+ - Drinen

20/20 Hindsight - Waldman

Fool's Gold - Gray

Team Capsules - Dodds

Weather Report - Gray

Trader Joe's - Pasquino

Hot Reads - Pasquino

Monopoly - Pasquino/Tefertiller

Reading the Defense - Bramel

Returnerguys - Herman

Penalty Plays - Hicks

Dynasty Watch - Tefertiller/Pasquino

Game Predictor - Dodds

Offensive Projections - Dodds

IDP Projections - Norton

Custom Cheatsheets/MyFBG - Drinen

Prelim Cheatsheets/Rankings - Dodds/Norton ***

Players in the News - Gray ***

Wednesday

MNF Game Recap - Bloom

Final Stats - Dodds

Final YTD Stats - Dodds

Final YTD Stats (PPG) - Dodds

Final Targets - Drinen

Target Details - Drinen

Final Redzone - Drinen

Data Dominator - Drinen

Historical Data Dominator - Drinen

Game Log Dominator - Drinen

Matchup Data - Dodds

Contest Results - Drinen

Dynasty Implications - Tefertiller

Rookie Profile - Tefertiller

Ultimate Survivor Recap

Def Stats Allowed - Herman

ST Stats Allowed - Herman

Gamebooks - Dodds

FP Scored/Allowed - Gray

FP Matchups - Gray

Strength of Schedule - Gray

Basically all I have done is swap Tuesday with Wednesday with a couple of exceptions.

The bulk of the current Tuesday articles are just data. Data requires no thought on your part. It's just a tedious task of formatting and posting it. As mentioned before there's not much content I use from Tuesdays articles.

Projections and articles that come out on Wednesday are the bread and butter of what we pay for IMHO. Why wait a day after the weeks games to put these out? You can start working on these right after the end of the MNF game so you can have them avaliable on Tuesday. Projections by Tuesday evening should not be a problem. Dodds has stated before that the early projections are normally not accurate anyways and are adjusted throughout the week. So whether they come out on Tuesday versus Wednesday should be a non-issue. Joe I'm not sure why you're saying "we don't want to publish bad information" because Dodds has already said before that the Wednesday projections are exactly that and should be taken with a grain of salt. He said the projections are updated throughout the week and become more and more accurate as the week goes on because staff is constantly analyzing the situations, matchups, injuries, etc. He said the Wednesday projections are more just rough drafts and what the system "spits out".

Actually I do use some of the "data" from Tuesdays content but it is not by choice. Since I have no projections I just look at all the Fantasy Points Allowed for my league's scoring system and analyze the matchups of my players. Basically I'm doing my own projections. Once your projections come out I still continue to do this because I think matchups play a bigger role than most people might.

To those of you saying "think for yourself" and stuff along those lines: Trust me I do think for myself every week. I've been doing it all season actually since I have no projections to go by to prioritize my waivers. Also I frequently go with my gut instincts instead of FBGs projections. For example in Week 12 I sat cotchery because I saw CAR had the #1 fantasy defense against the pass going into that game. FGB had him projected higher than several of the guys I started over him. Yeah I know, nobody here cares about my fantasy team, but the point is I DO make my own decisions and I DO think for myself. I also paid for a service which I think is not being delivered as advertised.

I realize I'm not member #900. This is my second year subscribing to FBGs. This is my fourth season playing FF. I will subscribe to FBGs next year regardless if these issues are fixed or not. I love the content here. With that being said FBGs should strive to improve it's content and meet it's self-imposed deadlines.

 

[grabnmcbutt]

Heaven forbid you think for yourself.

Ok, I'll think for myself a minute….. This is a forum on a pay for information fantasy football site that you have been a member of for over six years. I think you probably get lots of good information from this site that has helped you make better roster/lineup decisions. And you're just arrogant enough to imply that you are just "thinking for yourself". Heaven forbid, I think that's just a wee bit hypocritical of you.

SUCCESS!!!

I'm glad you agree with me!!!

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Maurile said it all. I am certain that David's unfortunate and untimely issue with his desktop hard drive is the main contributing factor to this situation. He has the material backed up on other computer resources, but I know that David's desktop is a really muscular computer with lots of processing power - any of his other resources are almost certainly not as powerful and this is probably delaying the processing/posting of this week's projections.Thanks for your patience and understanding, the last thing we aim to do around here is disappoint any of our valued subscribers. MW

Couple of caveats before I begin. I haven't subscribed in years because I found that I just didn't use the info. I liked it when I read it, but found I wasn't reading it so... I love the site though, always have since the cheatsheet days. I also think that the staff around here is AMAZING around here in terms of attitude and for the most part support. You aren't likely to find too many "nicer" businessmen.OK, all that said, this post is hilarious. "'Dave's desktop is a really muscular computer."? Wow. First, I can't think of any application on here that would require any more processing power than could be found on the average laptop (in terms of content generation - delivery is very different matter of course, but that is accomplished on web servers etc.). You are compiling some text and uploading data into an already existing suite of database tools. If that requires a lot of processing power, you're doing something wrong. I'm not saying this stuff doesn't take a long time to compile (not in the geek sense, but in the real-world sense), I'm sure it does. But we aren't talking about super-collider,or antenna-array data here.Second, as MANY people have already mentioned, this is a company offering paid services. A company (particularly an internet content delivery company) shouldn't be storing ANYTHING important on the hard-drive of a desktop computer. Just shouldn't happen. Sure, you can work on a local copy for a while maybe (although even that is probably not necessary), but the content should be on networked machines with multiple backup options. It's not hard, and it's not expensive - there are a million options. Relying on one hard drive on one desktop machine (if that's indeed the case) is BEYOND ridiculous in this day and age.I know I'm not adding much here, and I know there's not much to say on the staff's part at this point, but responses like this just aren't helping the cause. "Muscular computer". Jeesh.

"muscular computer" made me too. With my job I perform a lot of data analysis involving many files often with 60+ columns and millions of records. I am able to load, analyize, combine, and export millions of lines of data on a standard issued business laptop without skipping a beat.I can't imagine a scenario where Dodds needs a "musclar computer" to process fantasy football projections.

Would manipulating a database that includes each play snapped during the NFL season over the last 20 years meet your definition of needing a "muscular computer"? With all of David's statistical programs that then manipulate and weight said data according to his inputted directions each week?It would meet mine from a layman's point of view. Admittedly, I'm not a tech guru like David or Keith, but I've been around here for over 10 years and I know for a fact that David's desktop would blow away my machine - and my machine is no slouch.

Depends on what you mean by "manipulating". I grant that I don't know the particulars so I am judging based on assumptions to some degree. But yeah, if I run the data dominator tool on this website I am "manipulating" that very same (or very similar anyway) data set. I can chunk out query results on that data set in less than a second. 30 of us could do it at the same time and it would still chunk out in less than a second. That's running on a server obviously (which is typically a stronger performer than a desktop), but I hope you see my point. 20 years ago, this might have been an issue. It's really not today, unless there is something related to the business or content that I am totally missing. Sometimes, complex queries can take a little while to process, but you are likely talking about a difference of seconds from one desktop machine to another. Heck, maybe there are some SERIOUS calculations going on, and we are talking minutes. But something that just couldn't be run except on a "muscular" computer? Nope, I just have a lot of trouble envisioning how that would be the case. The more likely scenario that would generate a lengthy delay would be data loss (which is eminently avoidable), but I'm not sure even that is the root "problem".I don't doubt that David has a high-performance desktop. He's a major part of an internet company and he does "computer work" for a living, so why wouldn't he? But I seriously doubt that it would be NECESSARY to produce content for this website.Just so you know where I am coming from, I produce database-driven websites (with huge recordsets) for a living. That doesn't make me an expert on what David does for THIS website, but I know a little bit about how these things work. All I am saying is that responses like yours aren't helping the cause because knowledgeable folks just aren't going to buy the lack of a "muscular" computer as a reason for a long delay. In fact I would guess most non-technical folks aren't buying it either. Again, I don't want to pile on. Just telling you how it sounds.

 

[PosterNutBag]

Basically all I have done is swap Tuesday with Wednesday with a couple of exceptions.The bulk of the current Tuesday articles are just data. Data requires no thought on your part. It's just a tedious task of formatting and posting it. As mentioned before there's not much content I use from Tuesdays articles.

I can't be sure, but I would venture an educated guess to the fact that they need and use much of the data that gets created on Tuesday in creating much of the Wednesday content.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The bulk of the current Tuesday articles are just data. Data requires no thought on your part. It's just a tedious task of formatting and posting it. As mentioned before there's not much content I use from Tuesdays articles.Projections and articles that come out on Wednesday are the bread and butter of what we pay for IMHO.

My perspective on this is a bit different.A lot of the numbers that come out on Monday/Tuesday -- targets, red zone looks, play-by-play logs, updated Data Dominator & Game Log Dominator info, etc. -- are useful to the staff in creating the articles that come out on Wednesday. So it's hard to reverse the order on those things.Also, while I don't know for sure, I don't think that formatting and posting the numbers stuff is all that time-consuming. That is to say, I don't think that's much of a factor in delaying anything else.So I hear you when you say that moving a lot of Wednesday's stuff to Tuesday would be helpful. But I don't think that moving the current Tuesday stuff (much of which is actually posted very early on early Monday) back to Wednesday would do much to help achieve that goal.

 

[Little Joe]

Leave the projections as they are. It doesn't really matter if SJax is ranked 2nd on wednesday..only to drop to 11th by friday. Either way, the owner is gonna start him.

What we need is a a way to identify guys on the move. Guys that have made big jumps in their future week projections vs their past weeks projections/results. This would take care of the guys who hound the waiver wire and still retain the integrity of the projections themselves.

Next,

Little Joe

Edit to add: But if you're gonna still have the projections date listed as early wednesday, then they need to come out on early wednesday. I don't think that concept is very hard to grasp.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

What we need is a a way to identify guys on the move. Guys that have made big jumps in their future week projections vs their past weeks projections/results. This would take care of the guys who hound the waiver wire and still retain the integrity of the projections themselves.

This is the intent behind the upgrades/downgrades feature. We are basically trying to identify players whose rank in the current week's Top 250 Forward list will be significantly different (upward or downward) from their rank in the previous week's Top 250 Forward list -- for whatever reason.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

The bulk of the current Tuesday articles are just data. Data requires no thought on your part. It's just a tedious task of formatting and posting it. As mentioned before there's not much content I use from Tuesdays articles.Projections and articles that come out on Wednesday are the bread and butter of what we pay for IMHO.

My perspective on this is a bit different.A lot of the numbers that come out on Monday/Tuesday -- targets, red zone looks, play-by-play logs, updated Data Dominator & Game Log Dominator info, etc. -- are useful to the staff in creating the articles that come out on Wednesday. So it's hard to reverse the order on those things.Also, while I don't know for sure, I don't think that formatting and posting the numbers stuff is all that time-consuming. That is to say, I don't think that's much of a factor in delaying anything else.So I hear you when you say that moving a lot of Wednesday's stuff to Tuesday would be helpful. But I don't think that moving the current Tuesday stuff (much of which is actually posted very early on early Monday) back to Wednesday would do much to help achieve that goal.

exactly. I don't think much of the stuff posted on Tuesday is particularly time-consuming, but it is an important first step in creating projections going forward.the main issue is that there is a ton of work that goes into the weekly projections. that's not meant as an excuse. I'm certain they are a huge priority for David, but perhaps some things can be changed to support him in getting them finished quicker.

 

[BR33ZE]

the main issue is that there is a ton of work that goes into the weekly projections. that's not meant as an excuse. I'm certain they are a huge priority for David, but perhaps some things can be changed to support him in getting them finished quicker.

I keep seeing this posted.My question having been a long timer here...

If so much work goes into the weekly projections, why are there so many mistakes in them every week?

I really hate clichés, but this is almost a "can't see the forest for the trees" situation here.

Regards,

Your subscriber since '96

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

the main issue is that there is a ton of work that goes into the weekly projections. that's not meant as an excuse. I'm certain they are a huge priority for David, but perhaps some things can be changed to support him in getting them finished quicker.

I keep seeing this posted.My question having been a long timer here...

If so much work goes into the weekly projections, why are there so many mistakes in them every week?

I really hate clichés, but this is almost a "can't see the forest for the trees" situation here.

Regards,

Your subscriber since '96

sometimes when you spend many, many hours on something and are always in a rush to get it posted, you miss things that might seem obvious to someone else looking at the output for the first time. that's why books, newspapers, etc. have editors to catch typos and things of that sort.

 

[Little Joe]

What we need is a a way to identify guys on the move. Guys that have made big jumps in their future week projections vs their past weeks projections/results. This would take care of the guys who hound the waiver wire and still retain the integrity of the projections themselves.

This is the intent behind the upgrades/downgrades feature. We are basically trying to identify players whose rank in the current week's Top 250 Forward list will be significantly different (upward or downward) from their rank in the previous week's Top 250 Forward list -- for whatever reason.

To be more clear, you need to identify guys with a large projection change that moves them into (or out of) a starter role. Do I really care to see this week that Drew Brees has been upgraded and Tom Brady has been downgraded?? Or that Ray Rice has been upgraded?? How exactly am I supposed to use this information?Using the RBs for example...you have ware at the third upgrade position, brown is 7th, norwood is 11th, and ray rice is 13th. Well, if someone was using this for waivers, guess they would grab Ware. Then norwood comes out hours later with a 13.1 projection and Ware no where to be found. We need to find a way to make guys like norwood stand out....

Gotta run...good luck,

LJ

 

[OU#1]

The bulk of the current Tuesday articles are just data. Data requires no thought on your part. It's just a tedious task of formatting and posting it. As mentioned before there's not much content I use from Tuesdays articles.Projections and articles that come out on Wednesday are the bread and butter of what we pay for IMHO.

My perspective on this is a bit different.A lot of the numbers that come out on Monday/Tuesday -- targets, red zone looks, play-by-play logs, updated Data Dominator & Game Log Dominator info, etc. -- are useful to the staff in creating the articles that come out on Wednesday. So it's hard to reverse the order on those things.Also, while I don't know for sure, I don't think that formatting and posting the numbers stuff is all that time-consuming. That is to say, I don't think that's much of a factor in delaying anything else.So I hear you when you say that moving a lot of Wednesday's stuff to Tuesday would be helpful. But I don't think that moving the current Tuesday stuff (much of which is actually posted very early on early Monday) back to Wednesday would do much to help achieve that goal.

I think that's fair that you use this data to calculate projections.The point is it's Data. It's stagnant. It's not going to change between Tuesday and Wednesday.The main point of this thread is that projections were suppost to be a late Tuesday night delivery and that has slipped every week. In some weeks to late Wednesday evening. From what I can see every application uses these projections including most of the stuff in MyFBGs. People are making trades starting on Tuesday. Leagues are running waivers as early as Tuesday night/Wed morning. The only paid content that helps us make these decisions is the upgrades/downgrades at this point. The problem there is they don't really rank anything and they surely don't compare players at different positions.If FBGs staff needs a day off and Tuesday is that day then so be it, but don't state from the start of the season that Projections will come out Tuesday night and allow them to slip to Wednesday every week.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I didn't read further than page 1 but I'm going to chime in with a few things.

1. FBG usually is pretty good at getting their material up in a timely fashion but they need time sometimes in order to get information back in whether it is the NFL weekly IR, or they are trying to survey who was at practice and who wasn't. David Dodds takes his projections as serious as anyone I know of. That guy was throwing down wicked stuff long before JB came along and formed a partnership with him. I would rather they take a little more time and deliver a higher quality product.

2. I don't know any site that has such complete coverage the day after like this place come Monday...the game logs, the reviews, upgrades/downgrades...I hate to be the ahole here but my God people, you have pages and pages and pages of information to start drawing conclusions...you don't need another "Tell me what to do" every single week. At this point you should have some idea what you want to do with your line up. And if you are concerned come into the Shark Pool and ask your borthers and sisters in here for some help.

Would it have been hard to strike a thread up and ask the shark pool what their thoughts were for WW pick ups or line up decisions. There is a plethora of people here that want to help. You can email Jeff Tefertille/Wannabee and that guy will absolutely take the time and answer your questions.

I understand its a business, and I understand you are paying for a service...but OMG what you get for less than $30 in here is unreal. For less than $2 a week you are armed to the tooth with info. I spend more money on internet porn in a month than I spend on FBG in a year. I spend more at the bar downstairs for 1 night of happy hour than I do on FBG in a year. I can blow $30 on food in a day quicker than I can burn thru an FBG membership.

But just email Joe Bryant and he'll gladly refund your money because the one thing this place is not about is delivering a product that the consumer feels is a rip off. In fact if you want to fall behind in your leagues please stop buying the service here, you'll make it a lot easier on the rest of us.

Sorry but I just feel FBG is a quality site, quality writers, and quality buyers too, I love the Shark Pool and the FFA, and the Coach's forum...the site pays for these forums.

I've said enough, peace.

 

[OU#1]

I didn't read further than page 1 but I'm going to chime in with a few things.

1. FBG usually is pretty good at getting their material up in a timely fashion but they need time sometimes in order to get information back in whether it is the NFL weekly IR, or they are trying to survey who was at practice and who wasn't. David Dodds takes his projections as serious as anyone I know of. That guy was throwing down wicked stuff long before JB came along and formed a partnership with him. I would rather they take a little more time and deliver a higher quality product.

2. I don't know any site that has such complete coverage the day after like this place come Monday...the game logs, the reviews, upgrades/downgrades...I hate to be the ahole here but my God people, you have pages and pages and pages of information to start drawing conclusions...you don't need another "Tell me what to do" every single week. At this point you should have some idea what you want to do with your line up. And if you are concerned come into the Shark Pool and ask your borthers and sisters in here for some help.

Would it have been hard to strike a thread up and ask the shark pool what their thoughts were for WW pick ups or line up decisions. There is a plethora of people here that want to help. You can email Jeff Tefertille/Wannabee and that guy will absolutely take the time and answer your questions.

I understand its a business, and I understand you are paying for a service...but OMG what you get for less than $30 in here is unreal. For less than $2 a week you are armed to the tooth with info. I spend more money on internet porn in a month than I spend on FBG in a year. I spend more at the bar downstairs for 1 night of happy hour than I do on FBG in a year. I can blow $30 on food in a day quicker than I can burn thru an FBG membership.

But just email Joe Bryant and he'll gladly refund your money because the one thing this place is not about is delivering a product that the consumer feels is a rip off. In fact if you want to fall behind in your leagues please stop buying the service here, you'll make it a lot easier on the rest of us.

Sorry but I just feel FBG is a quality site, quality writers, and quality buyers too, I love the Shark Pool and the FFA, and the Coach's forum...the site pays for these forums.

I've said enough, peace.

Perhaps you do need to read more of the thread because I've stated a few times I'll continue to subscribe to FBGs regardless of the flaws. I've also stated that I love all the content on this site regardless of constantly missing the self-imposed deadlines.There are ways FBGs can be even better and the staff should strive to always improve the content of this site. Period.

If it was a free site then you're right people need to just suck it up.

Hearing people say over and over to "think for yourselves" is getting quite old. If I wanted to just think for myself then I don't need a subscription to FBGs. CBS even has all the data you would ever want and it's actually easier on the eyes and sortable. Take targets for example. I hardly ever use the Tuesday target articles beacuse I can just goto CBS and look at all players and sort the data by targets. NFL.com also has all the data you could ever want.

I don't want a refund. I want FGBs to improve it's service. Improving it's service is good for everybody because that means more business for FGBs and more quality for the subscribers. I want this site to suceed and I want it to continue to flourish.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Perhaps you do need to read more of the thread because I've stated a few times I'll continue to subscribe to FBGs regardless of the flaws. I've also stated that I love all the content on this site regardless of constantly missing the self-imposed deadlines.

There are ways FBGs can be even better and the staff should strive to always improve the content of this site. Period.

If it was a free site then you're right people need to just suck it up.

Hearing people say over and over to "think for yourselves" is getting quite old. If I wanted to just think for myself then I don't need a subscription to FBGs. CBS even has all the data you would ever want and it's actually easier on the eyes and sortable. Take targets for example. I hardly ever use the Tuesday target articles beacuse I can just goto CBS and look at all players and sort the data by targets. NFL.com also has all the data you could ever want.

I don't want a refund. I want FGBs to improve it's service. Improving it's service is good for everybody because that means more business for FGBs and more quality for the subscribers. I want this site to suceed and I want it to continue to flourish.

You seriously need to just send Joe an email and ask for a refund...so you're saying that if this was all free then it would be OK if they missed the deadlines???...you really need to have your head examined. I'm not an FBG apologist, but you sound like the type that complains at Wendy's, rails in line at Wal-Mart, its almost pitiful to read what you just posted. I wasn't even attacking you as the OP, but since you have captioned me I feel there is no reason to not fire back.

And your critique in comparing this place to Sportsline which is owned by CBS? Don't they have a major network on television? I haven't seen FBG TV yet but I'm sure its in the works. Dude, you should just buy the $149 package to CBS, host your league, and you don't need this place, you're good like you said.

FBG should not be listening to someone like you...they have way more articles, more than I can ever read in here. And yes you should try thinking for yourself a bit because otherwise what's the point? Just buy a magazine next year, skip this place, forget the Shark Pool, set your line up week 1 for the season and then you don't have to worry about anything.

There can't be more than a few players each week you are looking at on the WW, and all you need is a thread with a few of them in it and people will pile in and give you feedback. I don't even read half the stuff at FBG, mainly I use them on Mondays/Tuesdays so I can go back and check to see if I overlooked anything. I read the cheatsheets and to be honest my thoughts are different than theirs many times.

I really don't want to fight with you but I think you are completely off the ranch here.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

Perhaps you do need to read more of the thread because I've stated a few times I'll continue to subscribe to FBGs regardless of the flaws. I've also stated that I love all the content on this site regardless of constantly missing the self-imposed deadlines.

There are ways FBGs can be even better and the staff should strive to always improve the content of this site. Period.

If it was a free site then you're right people need to just suck it up.

Hearing people say over and over to "think for yourselves" is getting quite old. If I wanted to just think for myself then I don't need a subscription to FBGs. CBS even has all the data you would ever want and it's actually easier on the eyes and sortable. Take targets for example. I hardly ever use the Tuesday target articles beacuse I can just goto CBS and look at all players and sort the data by targets. NFL.com also has all the data you could ever want.

I don't want a refund. I want FGBs to improve it's service. Improving it's service is good for everybody because that means more business for FGBs and more quality for the subscribers. I want this site to suceed and I want it to continue to flourish.

You seriously need to just send Joe an email and ask for a refund...so you're saying that if this was all free then it would be OK if they missed the deadlines???...you really need to have your head examined. I'm not an FBG apologist, but you sound like the type that complains at Wendy's, rails in line at Wal-Mart, its almost pitiful to read what you just posted. I wasn't even attacking you as the OP, but since you have captioned me I feel there is no reason to not fire back.

And your critique in comparing this place to Sportsline which is owned by CBS? Don't they have a major network on television? I haven't seen FBG TV yet but I'm sure its in the works. Dude, you should just buy the $149 package to CBS, host your league, and you don't need this place, you're good like you said.

FBG should not be listening to someone like you...they have way more articles, more than I can ever read in here. And yes you should try thinking for yourself a bit because otherwise what's the point? Just buy a magazine next year, skip this place, forget the Shark Pool, set your line up week 1 for the season and then you don't have to worry about anything.

There can't be more than a few players each week you are looking at on the WW, and all you need is a thread with a few of them in it and people will pile in and give you feedback. I don't even read half the stuff at FBG, mainly I use them on Mondays/Tuesdays so I can go back and check to see if I overlooked anything. I read the cheatsheets and to be honest my thoughts are different than theirs many times.

I really don't want to fight with you but I think you are completely off the ranch here.

You really don't see the difference in expectations between something that's free and something you pay for? Really? You seem like a very smart guy, but that's an awfully easy concept to grasp. FBG should DEFINITELY be listening to guys like him, because quite obviously a lot of people who are paying the bills around here have similar issues. And they aren't paying for advice from guys in the shark pool, they are paying for products from FBG staff members.I'm a ####### LEECH around here, so they shouldn't be listening to me. But this guy IS paying and WANTS to continue to pay. The staff seems genuinely interested in what he has to say. So what's got your panties in a bunch?

 

[RUSF18]

Perhaps you do need to read more of the thread because I've stated a few times I'll continue to subscribe to FBGs regardless of the flaws. I've also stated that I love all the content on this site regardless of constantly missing the self-imposed deadlines.

There are ways FBGs can be even better and the staff should strive to always improve the content of this site. Period.

If it was a free site then you're right people need to just suck it up.

Hearing people say over and over to "think for yourselves" is getting quite old. If I wanted to just think for myself then I don't need a subscription to FBGs. CBS even has all the data you would ever want and it's actually easier on the eyes and sortable. Take targets for example. I hardly ever use the Tuesday target articles beacuse I can just goto CBS and look at all players and sort the data by targets. NFL.com also has all the data you could ever want.

I don't want a refund. I want FGBs to improve it's service. Improving it's service is good for everybody because that means more business for FGBs and more quality for the subscribers. I want this site to suceed and I want it to continue to flourish.

You seriously need to just send Joe an email and ask for a refund...so you're saying that if this was all free then it would be OK if they missed the deadlines???...you really need to have your head examined. I'm not an FBG apologist, but you sound like the type that complains at Wendy's, rails in line at Wal-Mart, its almost pitiful to read what you just posted. I wasn't even attacking you as the OP, but since you have captioned me I feel there is no reason to not fire back.

And your critique in comparing this place to Sportsline which is owned by CBS? Don't they have a major network on television? I haven't seen FBG TV yet but I'm sure its in the works. Dude, you should just buy the $149 package to CBS, host your league, and you don't need this place, you're good like you said.

FBG should not be listening to someone like you...they have way more articles, more than I can ever read in here. And yes you should try thinking for yourself a bit because otherwise what's the point? Just buy a magazine next year, skip this place, forget the Shark Pool, set your line up week 1 for the season and then you don't have to worry about anything.

There can't be more than a few players each week you are looking at on the WW, and all you need is a thread with a few of them in it and people will pile in and give you feedback. I don't even read half the stuff at FBG, mainly I use them on Mondays/Tuesdays so I can go back and check to see if I overlooked anything. I read the cheatsheets and to be honest my thoughts are different than theirs many times.

I really don't want to fight with you but I think you are completely off the ranch here.

This is quite honestly the dumbest post I have ever read on a message board...ever. Way to completely miss the point.

 

[Genester]

Thanks for the feedback from everyone on this. I know it sounds like empty promises from me so I"m hesitant to even say anything. But I am going to again try and make this a priority in the offseason. If it means cutting back half the content in order to get the most important stuff online with the deadlines, then that's what we'll do. J

This makes a ton of sense, Joe. Quality ahead of volume, please. Thanks!

 

[Ministry of Pain]

You really don't see the difference in expectations between something that's free and something you pay for? Really? You seem like a very smart guy, but that's an awfully easy concept to grasp. FBG should DEFINITELY be listening to guys like him, because quite obviously a lot of people who are paying the bills around here have similar issues. And they aren't paying for advice from guys in the shark pool, they are paying for products from FBG staff members.I'm a ####### LEECH around here, so they shouldn't be listening to me. But this guy IS paying and WANTS to continue to pay. The staff seems genuinely interested in what he has to say. So what's got your panties in a bunch?

He compared this place to a free site. Show me a free site with this much content...PLEASE!!!He says, well if it was a free site then I would understand...if this place was free they would put every pay site out of business. It's a terrible comparison IMO. You just can't please everyone, I understand...and I didn't single anyone out in my original post if you go back and read it. He took issue with it cause he likely doesn't start a lot of threads, fired up a complaint thread...doesn't Joe and crew do a year end "What can we work on thread?"I'll go back to my in ground bunker, you all carry on.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Perhaps you do need to read more of the thread because I've stated a few times I'll continue to subscribe to FBGs regardless of the flaws. I've also stated that I love all the content on this site regardless of constantly missing the self-imposed deadlines.

There are ways FBGs can be even better and the staff should strive to always improve the content of this site. Period.

If it was a free site then you're right people need to just suck it up.

Hearing people say over and over to "think for yourselves" is getting quite old. If I wanted to just think for myself then I don't need a subscription to FBGs. CBS even has all the data you would ever want and it's actually easier on the eyes and sortable. Take targets for example. I hardly ever use the Tuesday target articles beacuse I can just goto CBS and look at all players and sort the data by targets. NFL.com also has all the data you could ever want.

I don't want a refund. I want FGBs to improve it's service. Improving it's service is good for everybody because that means more business for FGBs and more quality for the subscribers. I want this site to suceed and I want it to continue to flourish.

You seriously need to just send Joe an email and ask for a refund...so you're saying that if this was all free then it would be OK if they missed the deadlines???...you really need to have your head examined. I'm not an FBG apologist, but you sound like the type that complains at Wendy's, rails in line at Wal-Mart, its almost pitiful to read what you just posted. I wasn't even attacking you as the OP, but since you have captioned me I feel there is no reason to not fire back.

And your critique in comparing this place to Sportsline which is owned by CBS? Don't they have a major network on television? I haven't seen FBG TV yet but I'm sure its in the works. Dude, you should just buy the $149 package to CBS, host your league, and you don't need this place, you're good like you said.

FBG should not be listening to someone like you...they have way more articles, more than I can ever read in here. And yes you should try thinking for yourself a bit because otherwise what's the point? Just buy a magazine next year, skip this place, forget the Shark Pool, set your line up week 1 for the season and then you don't have to worry about anything.

There can't be more than a few players each week you are looking at on the WW, and all you need is a thread with a few of them in it and people will pile in and give you feedback. I don't even read half the stuff at FBG, mainly I use them on Mondays/Tuesdays so I can go back and check to see if I overlooked anything. I read the cheatsheets and to be honest my thoughts are different than theirs many times.

I really don't want to fight with you but I think you are completely off the ranch here.

This is quite honestly the dumbest post I have ever read on a message board...ever. Way to completely miss the point.

Well that wasn't very hard.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'd ask this question:Obviously the push is to get projections as soon as possible. We've always been hesitant to throw out info that we don't have a lot of faith in. A projection done Monday night or Tuesday we honestly have VERY little faith in. I mean it can be done, but it's not even remotely something feel confident in. There is simply too much left to play out during the week. But let's say we throw something up there. Say We rank Jay Cutler as the #12 QB on Tuesday. But because of things that happen during the week (or maybe nothing significant happens and we just are able to think about it more) he winds up as the #20 QB by Saturday night. Will folks be ok with that?J

Joe, please don't let this thread become the end all be all. You hit the nail on the head with the Mon/Tue projections. I can imagine a sea of threads complaining about the early projections and how far off they are. I try and list the RB thread as close to Thursday as possible and I still at times am not sure who is starting and have no way to gauge players right now like Jerome Harrison, Jerious Norwood, Dallas RBs...My input would echo posters who want to see guys that are moving up/down. For example, you all had Knowshon Moreno outside the top20...maybe 22/24 in the past few days, today he suddenly popped up to 17, why? Or maybe on the cheatsheets it should show a guy rising 5 spots. I'm sure others suggested it too, but to me its not time sensitive. I want to be able to make the best decisions and please don't take offense but I much prefer to use the data and come up with my opinions. I think Moreno is a major play this week along with Charles in that Den-KC game, glad to see him move up but at the same time I wish I knew why DD had him so low to begin with. Reason is you guys a lot of times end up being right.I can't see from a cheatsheet what MJD does on the road vs home, grass vs turf, rain vs sunshine...there are a lot of variables. If I stepped on anyone, I apologize but I really would like to see what others are doing to get their info if not here. I haven't checked in 1 time on any of the freebies this year...they just end up getting me sidetracked. I feel strongly that between FBG and the Shark Pool, and Drinen's site, I feel pretty strong that I have all the info I need to make an informed decision.And that's another thing...informed decision. I have preached it before but again I will say that just like in poker you can have the best cards and still come up short, lot of luck involved.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Most waivers run Wednesday morning

seriously? most?i've never played in a league that processes waivers Wed morning.

this is the default waiver time for sportsline leagues. And it's usually about 2-3:00 am on wed am.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

Here is the schedule I'd like to see:

Tuesday

Updated Upgrades/Waiver - Waldman and staff

The Marketplace - Tefertiller

Lineup Dominator - Henderson

Custom Top 250+ - Drinen

20/20 Hindsight - Waldman

Fool's Gold - Gray

Team Capsules - Dodds

Weather Report - Gray

Trader Joe's - Pasquino

Hot Reads - Pasquino

Monopoly - Pasquino/Tefertiller

Reading the Defense - Bramel

Returnerguys - Herman

Penalty Plays - Hicks

Dynasty Watch - Tefertiller/Pasquino

Game Predictor - Dodds

Offensive Projections - Dodds

IDP Projections - Norton

Custom Cheatsheets/MyFBG - Drinen

Prelim Cheatsheets/Rankings - Dodds/Norton ***

Players in the News - Gray ***

Wednesday

MNF Game Recap - Bloom

Final Stats - Dodds

Final YTD Stats - Dodds

Final YTD Stats (PPG) - Dodds

Final Targets - Drinen

Target Details - Drinen

Final Redzone - Drinen

Data Dominator - Drinen

Historical Data Dominator - Drinen

Game Log Dominator - Drinen

Matchup Data - Dodds

Contest Results - Drinen

Dynasty Implications - Tefertiller

Rookie Profile - Tefertiller

Ultimate Survivor Recap

Def Stats Allowed - Herman

ST Stats Allowed - Herman

Gamebooks - Dodds

FP Scored/Allowed - Gray

FP Matchups - Gray

Strength of Schedule - Gray

Basically all I have done is swap Tuesday with Wednesday with a couple of exceptions.

The bulk of the current Tuesday articles are just data. Data requires no thought on your part. It's just a tedious task of formatting and posting it. As mentioned before there's not much content I use from Tuesdays articles.

Projections and articles that come out on Wednesday are the bread and butter of what we pay for IMHO. Why wait a day after the weeks games to put these out? You can start working on these right after the end of the MNF game so you can have them avaliable on Tuesday. Projections by Tuesday evening should not be a problem. Dodds has stated before that the early projections are normally not accurate anyways and are adjusted throughout the week. So whether they come out on Tuesday versus Wednesday should be a non-issue. Joe I'm not sure why you're saying "we don't want to publish bad information" because Dodds has already said before that the Wednesday projections are exactly that and should be taken with a grain of salt. He said the projections are updated throughout the week and become more and more accurate as the week goes on because staff is constantly analyzing the situations, matchups, injuries, etc. He said the Wednesday projections are more just rough drafts and what the system "spits out".

Actually I do use some of the "data" from Tuesdays content but it is not by choice. Since I have no projections I just look at all the Fantasy Points Allowed for my league's scoring system and analyze the matchups of my players. Basically I'm doing my own projections. Once your projections come out I still continue to do this because I think matchups play a bigger role than most people might.

To those of you saying "think for yourself" and stuff along those lines: Trust me I do think for myself every week. I've been doing it all season actually since I have no projections to go by to prioritize my waivers. Also I frequently go with my gut instincts instead of FBGs projections. For example in Week 12 I sat cotchery because I saw CAR had the #1 fantasy defense against the pass going into that game. FGB had him projected higher than several of the guys I started over him. Yeah I know, nobody here cares about my fantasy team, but the point is I DO make my own decisions and I DO think for myself. I also paid for a service which I think is not being delivered as advertised.

I realize I'm not member #900. This is my second year subscribing to FBGs. This is my fourth season playing FF. I will subscribe to FBGs next year regardless if these issues are fixed or not. I love the content here. With that being said FBGs should strive to improve it's content and meet it's self-imposed deadlines.

 

[Hipple Long Ware & Peete]

The bulk of the current Tuesday articles are just data. Data requires no thought on your part. It's just a tedious task of formatting and posting it. As mentioned before there's not much content I use from Tuesdays articles.Projections and articles that come out on Wednesday are the bread and butter of what we pay for IMHO.

My perspective on this is a bit different.A lot of the numbers that come out on Monday/Tuesday -- targets, red zone looks, play-by-play logs, updated Data Dominator & Game Log Dominator info, etc. -- are useful to the staff in creating the articles that come out on Wednesday. So it's hard to reverse the order on those things.Also, while I don't know for sure, I don't think that formatting and posting the numbers stuff is all that time-consuming. That is to say, I don't think that's much of a factor in delaying anything else.So I hear you when you say that moving a lot of Wednesday's stuff to Tuesday would be helpful. But I don't think that moving the current Tuesday stuff (much of which is actually posted very early on early Monday) back to Wednesday would do much to help achieve that goal.

hadn't considered this. I think all of this washes if a Custom Rankings/rankings comes out tuesday night.

 

[Chaka]

Heaven forbid you think for yourself.

Ok, I'll think for myself a minute….. This is a forum on a pay for information fantasy football site that you have been a member of for over six years. I think you probably get lots of good information from this site that has helped you make better roster/lineup decisions. And you're just arrogant enough to imply that you are just "thinking for yourself". Heaven forbid, I think that's just a wee bit hypocritical of you.

SUCCESS!!!

I'm glad you agree with me!!!

I really want to say something magnanimous like "nice effort" or even give you a but considering how far your post missed the target it really doesn't warrant that kind of display. Instead I have further highlighted the relevant part of your post to help your understanding.Never let it be said that I don't try to be helpful.

 

[Chaka]

How does not getting the projections on Tuesday put anyone at a competitive disadvantage?

How would getting the projections on Tuesday give anyone a competitive advantage?

Has anyone ever done a study comparing the weekly FBG projections with the actual results from that week?

Has anyone ever considered the possibility that Dodds may be completely bughouse loco? Do you really want to use the projections from a potentially crazy person?

 

[Tibereas]

All the goodies to prep for the draft are easily worth the subscription, the regular season is just a bonus.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

How does not getting the projections on Tuesday put anyone at a competitive disadvantage?How would getting the projections on Tuesday give anyone a competitive advantage?Has anyone ever done a study comparing the weekly FBG projections with the actual results from that week?Has anyone ever considered the possibility that Dodds may be completely bughouse loco? Do you really want to use the projections from a potentially crazy person?

Don't even waste your energy...

 

[BR33ZE]

the main issue is that there is a ton of work that goes into the weekly projections. that's not meant as an excuse. I'm certain they are a huge priority for David, but perhaps some things can be changed to support him in getting them finished quicker.

I keep seeing this posted.My question having been a long timer here...

If so much work goes into the weekly projections, why are there so many mistakes in them every week?

I really hate clichés, but this is almost a "can't see the forest for the trees" situation here.

Regards,

Your subscriber since '96

sometimes when you spend many, many hours on something and are always in a rush to get it posted, you miss things that might seem obvious to someone else looking at the output for the first time. that's why books, newspapers, etc. have editors to catch typos and things of that sort.

I think you just restated what I said only moved the words around a little.

 

[BR33ZE]

The problem I have with the projections and cheatsheets is they have enitire players missing sometimes. Other times, it seems like a player should move up based on him becoming a starter and he doesn't.

I do not know how many times this year I've checked the projections only to have the player I'm looking for completely missing from the list. The comical picture painted here of Dodds cranking away at tons of data to update his projections on some super computer makes it seem even worse. So you put in all this time to crank out meaningful projections but you don't have time to do a quick sanity check to make sure you've covered all the meaningful players?

It makes no sense.

Then your subscriber who might believe you've spent all this time cranking out these projections and relies on your list doesn't see his player listed in the top 80 or whatever goes into panic mode. Did the player get hurt? Am I missing something? Let me do a search... no nothing.

Oh wait, maybe they just forgot to include him in the list. I thought they spent a lot of time on this.

Have this happen once and you let it pass. Have it happen several times and you start to ignore this list.

 

[Joe Bryant]

The problem I have with the projections and cheatsheets is they have enitire players missing sometimes. Other times, it seems like a player should move up based on him becoming a starter and he doesn't.I do not know how many times this year I've checked the projections only to have the player I'm looking for completely missing from the list. The comical picture painted here of Dodds cranking away at tons of data to update his projections on some super computer makes it seem even worse. So you put in all this time to crank out meaningful projections but you don't have time to do a quick sanity check to make sure you've covered all the meaningful players?It makes no sense.Then your subscriber who might believe you've spent all this time cranking out these projections and relies on your list doesn't see his player listed in the top 80 or whatever goes into panic mode. Did the player get hurt? Am I missing something? Let me do a search... no nothing.Oh wait, maybe they just forgot to include him in the list. I thought they spent a lot of time on this.Have this happen once and you let it pass. Have it happen several times and you start to ignore this list.

Next time you see this happen, please send me an email to bryant@footballguys.com and I'll try to help.About once a week, I get a "why did you idiots leave xxxxxx off the cheatsheet!?!!!" In 100% of the cases so far this year, it's because the player was on his bye week or was out for the game.Not saying it's never happened and surely not saying we don't make mistakes. But the next time you see this happen, please send me an email to point it out to me. Thanks.J

 

[phrozen]

Perhaps you do need to read more of the thread because I've stated a few times I'll continue to subscribe to FBGs regardless of the flaws. I've also stated that I love all the content on this site regardless of constantly missing the self-imposed deadlines.

There are ways FBGs can be even better and the staff should strive to always improve the content of this site. Period.

If it was a free site then you're right people need to just suck it up.

Hearing people say over and over to "think for yourselves" is getting quite old. If I wanted to just think for myself then I don't need a subscription to FBGs. CBS even has all the data you would ever want and it's actually easier on the eyes and sortable. Take targets for example. I hardly ever use the Tuesday target articles beacuse I can just goto CBS and look at all players and sort the data by targets. NFL.com also has all the data you could ever want.

I don't want a refund. I want FGBs to improve it's service. Improving it's service is good for everybody because that means more business for FGBs and more quality for the subscribers. I want this site to suceed and I want it to continue to flourish.

You seriously need to just send Joe an email and ask for a refund...so you're saying that if this was all free then it would be OK if they missed the deadlines???...you really need to have your head examined. I'm not an FBG apologist, but you sound like the type that complains at Wendy's, rails in line at Wal-Mart, its almost pitiful to read what you just posted. I wasn't even attacking you as the OP, but since you have captioned me I feel there is no reason to not fire back.

And your critique in comparing this place to Sportsline which is owned by CBS? Don't they have a major network on television? I haven't seen FBG TV yet but I'm sure its in the works. Dude, you should just buy the $149 package to CBS, host your league, and you don't need this place, you're good like you said.

FBG should not be listening to someone like you...they have way more articles, more than I can ever read in here. And yes you should try thinking for yourself a bit because otherwise what's the point? Just buy a magazine next year, skip this place, forget the Shark Pool, set your line up week 1 for the season and then you don't have to worry about anything.

There can't be more than a few players each week you are looking at on the WW, and all you need is a thread with a few of them in it and people will pile in and give you feedback. I don't even read half the stuff at FBG, mainly I use them on Mondays/Tuesdays so I can go back and check to see if I overlooked anything. I read the cheatsheets and to be honest my thoughts are different than theirs many times.

I really don't want to fight with you but I think you are completely off the ranch here.

 

[phrozen]

Perhaps you do need to read more of the thread because I've stated a few times I'll continue to subscribe to FBGs regardless of the flaws. I've also stated that I love all the content on this site regardless of constantly missing the self-imposed deadlines.

There are ways FBGs can be even better and the staff should strive to always improve the content of this site. Period.

If it was a free site then you're right people need to just suck it up.

Hearing people say over and over to "think for yourselves" is getting quite old. If I wanted to just think for myself then I don't need a subscription to FBGs. CBS even has all the data you would ever want and it's actually easier on the eyes and sortable. Take targets for example. I hardly ever use the Tuesday target articles beacuse I can just goto CBS and look at all players and sort the data by targets. NFL.com also has all the data you could ever want.

I don't want a refund. I want FGBs to improve it's service. Improving it's service is good for everybody because that means more business for FGBs and more quality for the subscribers. I want this site to suceed and I want it to continue to flourish.

You seriously need to just send Joe an email and ask for a refund...so you're saying that if this was all free then it would be OK if they missed the deadlines???...you really need to have your head examined. I'm not an FBG apologist, but you sound like the type that complains at Wendy's, rails in line at Wal-Mart, its almost pitiful to read what you just posted. I wasn't even attacking you as the OP, but since you have captioned me I feel there is no reason to not fire back.

And your critique in comparing this place to Sportsline which is owned by CBS? Don't they have a major network on television? I haven't seen FBG TV yet but I'm sure its in the works. Dude, you should just buy the $149 package to CBS, host your league, and you don't need this place, you're good like you said.

FBG should not be listening to someone like you...they have way more articles, more than I can ever read in here. And yes you should try thinking for yourself a bit because otherwise what's the point? Just buy a magazine next year, skip this place, forget the Shark Pool, set your line up week 1 for the season and then you don't have to worry about anything.

There can't be more than a few players each week you are looking at on the WW, and all you need is a thread with a few of them in it and people will pile in and give you feedback. I don't even read half the stuff at FBG, mainly I use them on Mondays/Tuesdays so I can go back and check to see if I overlooked anything. I read the cheatsheets and to be honest my thoughts are different than theirs many times.

I really don't want to fight with you but I think you are completely off the ranch here.

This is quite honestly the dumbest post I have ever read on a message board...ever. Way to completely miss the point.

Read Post #3 - YWIA

 

[Sarnoff]

I try and list the RB thread as close to Thursday as possible and I still at times am not sure who is starting and have no way to gauge players right now like Jerome Harrison, Jerious Norwood, Dallas RBs...

Well, no one is paying you to do anything, so you can list them whenever you want. List them the Tuesday after the games and they'll be 100% accurate.But if you're suggesting that FBG shouldn't release any projections, at all, until Thurs/Fri, I'd be curious to see how many subscribers they'd lose (if they were honest about that release time from the get-go). Waiting that long and they're useless except for lineup decisions in a flex spot among players you already own.Look most people have rosters with spots that are the same every week... if you have ADP or Chris Johnson, he's not on your bench. Projections are more about who to plug in as RB3 or your flex or who to pick up off of waivers. Problem is, waiting until Thurs/Fri to determine if it's worth dropping Larry Johnson for Jerome Harrison this week, or whatever, your lowest rostered RB for a maybe-startable guy this week, decisions like that, well, by Friday it's moot because someone picked him up Tues/Wed off of waivers.Point is, a lot of stuff like "Peyton Manning gets an upgrade this week" is useless... what'd he do, move from #1 to #0?.... and "upgrade Chris Jennings" doesn't help unless there's some insight as to the numbers he's expected to gain... but any estimation of the numbers, no matter how variable, is better than nothing. Decisions have to be made Tuesday night for probably a third of the FBG customer base, and it'd stupid to blindly ignore that.

 

[Chaka]

I try and list the RB thread as close to Thursday as possible and I still at times am not sure who is starting and have no way to gauge players right now like Jerome Harrison, Jerious Norwood, Dallas RBs...

Well, no one is paying you to do anything, so you can list them whenever you want. List them the Tuesday after the games and they'll be 100% accurate.But if you're suggesting that FBG shouldn't release any projections, at all, until Thurs/Fri, I'd be curious to see how many subscribers they'd lose (if they were honest about that release time from the get-go). Waiting that long and they're useless except for lineup decisions in a flex spot among players you already own.Look most people have rosters with spots that are the same every week... if you have ADP or Chris Johnson, he's not on your bench. Projections are more about who to plug in as RB3 or your flex or who to pick up off of waivers. Problem is, waiting until Thurs/Fri to determine if it's worth dropping Larry Johnson for Jerome Harrison this week, or whatever, your lowest rostered RB for a maybe-startable guy this week, decisions like that, well, by Friday it's moot because someone picked him up Tues/Wed off of waivers.Point is, a lot of stuff like "Peyton Manning gets an upgrade this week" is useless... what'd he do, move from #1 to #0?.... and "upgrade Chris Jennings" doesn't help unless there's some insight as to the numbers he's expected to gain... but any estimation of the numbers, no matter how variable, is better than nothing. Decisions have to be made Tuesday night for probably a third of the FBG customer base, and it'd stupid to blindly ignore that.

How would releasing them on Thursday render them useless?How are they useful if released on Tuesday?Is it exclusively a waiver wire issue? How many potential starters are sitting on league WWs in week 13 to make this an issue now?How are projections more valuable for making those decisions over, say, a ranked list without projections?Again I ask, does anyone know what the margin of error is on FBGs projections?This is much ado about nothing.

 

[Sarnoff]

How are projections more valuable for making those decisions over, say, a ranked list without projections?

They're about the same. But the ranked list comes out at the same time as projections, so, what's your point?

 

[Sarnoff]

Is it exclusively a waiver wire issue? How many potential starters are sitting on league WWs in week 13 to make this an issue now?

Several, due to injuries to starters on the roster.

 

[joffer]

My question having been a long timer here...If so much work goes into the weekly projections, why are there so many mistakes in them every week?

this thread has really gone round the bend...

 

[Sarnoff]

This is much ado about nothing.

This has been a constant complaint on these boards for years. There are threads on this in other forums on this board. This is always brought up in the "How can FBG improve?" offseason thread. Joe and David have promised several years in a row to get them done Tuesday, and they haven't ever delivered to the paying customers. It's probably the most common complaint I've seen here about the service.

 

[Chaka]

Is it exclusively a waiver wire issue? How many potential starters are sitting on league WWs in week 13 to make this an issue now?

Several, due to injuries to starters on the roster.

Enough that it is truly a decision?Looking at the top scoring players (excluding those on IR) on my league's WW I see:QBs: Boller, Fitzpatrick, Gradkowski, RedmanRBs: Fargas, Norwood, Weaver, J. HarrisonWRs: Nicks, Avery, Henderson, J.Jones, BrittI can't see how 1) projections for these players could be taken with anything but a grain of salt and 2) how projections would be more effective as a tie breaker than, say, a coin toss or a roll of the dice.

 

[Chaka]

How are projections more valuable for making those decisions over, say, a ranked list without projections?

They're about the same. But the ranked list comes out at the same time as projections, so, what's your point?

Does Dodds create both (I seldom use more than the Target sorter, so I don't know who writes each article)?It would probably be easier to ask FBG to produce the ranked lists sooner than the data intensive projections.

 

[Chaka]

This is much ado about nothing.

This has been a constant complaint on these boards for years. There are threads on this in other forums on this board. This is always brought up in the "How can FBG improve?" offseason thread. Joe and David have promised several years in a row to get them done Tuesday, and they haven't ever delivered to the paying customers. It's probably the most common complaint I've seen here about the service.

I have seen the complaint for years too and it has always been much ado about nothing.Tuesday projections (probably all of them actually) are likely no more accurate than flipping a coin to decide between two players (or a die to choose between multiple players).I honestly think that many of the people who complain about this are merely looking for someone to blame if they make the wrong decision.

 

[TheDemon]

Looking at the top scoring players (excluding those on IR) on my league's WW I see:

And what did you see in Week 2? How about week 3? 4? 5?

 

[Chaka]

Looking at the top scoring players (excluding those on IR) on my league's WW I see:

And what did you see in Week 2? How about week 3? 4? 5?

One thing I did not see in week 2, 3, 4 or 5 is this thread.And again I say that using projections to make those decisions is akin to a coin toss or rolling of a die.

 

[TheDemon]

One thing I did not see in week 2, 3, 4 or 5 is this thread.

You evidently didn't look very hard. And no, I'm not going to show you where another thread (that appeared in mid-October) exists on the first page of the subforum where it currently resides.But you did put plenty of effort into coming into this thread and trying to convince paying customers that they should indeed be happy with this service. Awesome job.

 

[Sarnoff]

But you did put plenty of effort into coming into this thread and trying to convince paying customers that they should indeed be happy with this service. Awesome job.

Actually, he's saying people should be thinking for themselves and not paying for the service in the first place, which would presumably put these boards out of business. I'm sure the owners will be taking that suggestion seriously.

 

[King of Queens]

The problem I have with the projections and cheatsheets is they have enitire players missing sometimes. Other times, it seems like a player should move up based on him becoming a starter and he doesn't.

I do not know how many times this year I've checked the projections only to have the player I'm looking for completely missing from the list. The comical picture painted here of Dodds cranking away at tons of data to update his projections on some super computer makes it seem even worse. So you put in all this time to crank out meaningful projections but you don't have time to do a quick sanity check to make sure you've covered all the meaningful players?

It makes no sense.

Then your subscriber who might believe you've spent all this time cranking out these projections and relies on your list doesn't see his player listed in the top 80 or whatever goes into panic mode. Did the player get hurt? Am I missing something? Let me do a search... no nothing.

Oh wait, maybe they just forgot to include him in the list. I thought they spent a lot of time on this.

Have this happen once and you let it pass. Have it happen several times and you start to ignore this list.

Next time you see this happen, please send me an email to bryant@footballguys.com and I'll try to help.About once a week, I get a "why did you idiots leave xxxxxx off the cheatsheet!?!!!" In 100% of the cases so far this year, it's because the player was on his bye week or was out for the game.

Not saying it's never happened and surely not saying we don't make mistakes. But the next time you see this happen, please send me an email to point it out to me. Thanks.

J

Kevin Smith in Week 4 was the only exception I can recall. He put up a crappy yardage total -- but did have 2 TDs -- in a game that many believed he was going to miss.ETA: I just checked. He was added in the Sunday morning rankings update.

 

[Chaka]

Looking at the top scoring players (excluding those on IR) on my league's WW I see:

And what did you see in Week 2? How about week 3? 4? 5?

Can't tell you everyone who was available but here is everyone who was acquired between weeks 1-6. I just did a quick comparison of all the WRs acquired between weeks 1-6. 13 WRs were acquired and based on a direct comparison of where FBG ranked those WRs to perform during the week of their acquisition they were incorrect in their relative projections 7 times and correct 4 times (2 players were on the bye the week they were acquired).If I am feeling especially bored I will do a comparison of the actual performance of all the waiver acquisitions the week they were acquired with where FBGs projected them for that given week.1 Carney, John NOS PK1 Gage, Justin TEN WR1 Henderson, Devery NOS WR1 Manningham, Mario NYG WR2 Driver, Donald GBP WR2 Sims-Walker, Mike JAC WR2 Knox, Johnny CHI WR2 Stokley, Brandon DEN WR3 Bengals, Cincinnati CIN Def3 Garcon, Pierre IND WR3 Jones, Julius SEA RB3 Anderson, Derek CLE QB3 Bush, Michael OAK RB3 Coffee, Glen SFO RB3 Edwards, Braylon NYJ WR3 Henne, Chad MIA QB3 Kolb, Kevin PHI QB3 White, Pat MIA QB4 Broncos, Denver DEN Def4 Maroney, Laurence NEP RB4 Williams, Carnell TBB RB4 Young, Vince TEN QB4 Harrison, Jerome CLE RB4 Heap, Todd BAL TE4 Lions, Detroit DET Def4 Moore, Mewelde PIT RB4 Taylor, Fred NEP RB5 Austin, Miles DAL WR5 Bell, Mike NOS RB5 Burleson, Nate SEA WR5 Carpenter, Dan MIA PK5 Collie, Austin IND WR5 Maclin, Jeremy PHI WR5 Morris, Sammy NEP RB

 

[Chaka]

One thing I did not see in week 2, 3, 4 or 5 is this thread.

You evidently didn't look very hard. And no, I'm not going to show you where another thread (that appeared in mid-October) exists on the first page of the subforum where it currently resides.But you did put plenty of effort into coming into this thread and trying to convince paying customers that they should indeed be happy with this service. Awesome job.

This thread was started on Nov 25th a day before week 12 of the NFL season.As a paying customer for years I am thrilled with what I get from FBGs. Truth be told I use very little of the paid content, especially so during the season. In fact 99% of what I use for my league I get from the forums which are free, even so I am happy to pay for my subscription just to do my part to keep the site up and running.