Who's better, Manning or Brady?

[bostonfred 29,119]

I wasn't downplaying his great 4th quarter. I was saying that a team's defense and kicker and who knows what else has as much to do with whether you win or not. And a QB gets way too much credit/blame for being great or a choker.

manning's kicker kicked just fine in 2004, when manning had led his team to an nfl record 49 touchdowns during the season, then scored just three in New England. He scored the only punts of the game. Can't blame the defense, either, when you only score three points.

His defense wasnt the problem last year when the Broncos set more nfl records during the regular season and then scored just 8 points in the superbowl - against the same defense brady just beat for 28.

[IHEARTFF 926]

I wasn't downplaying his great 4th quarter. I was saying that a team's defense and kicker and who knows what else has as much to do with whether you win or not. And a QB gets way too much credit/blame for being great or a choker.

manning's kicker kicked just fine in 2004, when manning had led his team to an nfl record 49 touchdowns during the season, then scored just three in New England. He scored the only punts of the game. Can't blame the defense, either, when you only score three points.

His defense wasnt the problem last year when the Broncos set more nfl records during the regular season and then scored just 8 points in the superbowl - against the same defense brady just beat for 28.

We're talking about Brady last night. He made some big plays, but he also threw 2 picks which led to his team being down by 10. And he relied on Seattle never scoring again and a heroic goal line stand to get the win. Wins and losses are a tainted stat for measuring QB greatness.

[IndyHavoc 13]

Changing my vote.

It has been and still is close for me. But I give the edge to Brady now.

Agreed. Obvious Manning fan, but anyone that doesn't give Brady a slight edge is wearing fan-goggles. Brady has indeed had more help on the D side of the ball, but by-and-large has been this clutch for this long with lesser talent on O.

[beerbarron 4]

Both PM and TB faced the same team(Sea D this year is almost the same as last year) in the biggest game of the year, one year apart.

PM can into the game with the most prolific O in the history of the game. His team scored 8 points and lost the superbowl

TB's team was down 10 points to the same Seattle defense in the 4th quarter and his team won the superbowl.

For those that argue about receiving corps, whose would you rather have, Manning's last year or Brady's this year? Not close.. Manning's are much better!

Brady...

[Warsteinner 335]

When you go one and done 9 out of 14 tries, you're not in the same conversation with a 4 time SB champion.

[dschuler 910]

Brady has had the advantage of being on a great defensive team, which helped him gain home field advantage. If Manning had better defense that could get him home field in the playoffs, he'd be a near lock to make it to the Superbowl.Here are the games Manning has lost in the playoffs:1999 - Divisional loss @Indy2000 - Wild card loss @Miami2002 - Wild card loss @NYJ2003 - Conference championship loss @NE2004 - Divisional loss @NE

Manning has never scored more than 17 points OR thrown for more than 1 TD and lost a playoff game.Translation: It's not the defense that's hurting him. He's not losing playoff games 35-34.

Great work

[Faust 4,874]

Tim Hasselbeck on D&C: Peyton Manning still greatest QB of all time

[Run It Up 916]

Tim Hasselbeck on D&C: Peyton Manning still greatest QB of all time

TL:DR

Wins/Losses are a team thing, production isn't.

Thanks for letting us know how dumb your dumb opinion is Tim.

[Niles Standish 350]

I wasn't downplaying his great 4th quarter. I was saying that a team's defense and kicker and who knows what else has as much to do with whether you win or not. And a QB gets way too much credit/blame for being great or a choker.

manning's kicker kicked just fine in 2004, when manning had led his team to an nfl record 49 touchdowns during the season, then scored just three in New England. He scored the only punts of the game. Can't blame the defense, either, when you only score three points.

His defense wasnt the problem last year when the Broncos set more nfl records during the regular season and then scored just 8 points in the superbowl - against the same defense brady just beat for 28.

We're talking about Brady last night. He made some big plays, but he also threw 2 picks which led to his team being down by 10. And he relied on Seattle never scoring again and a heroic goal line stand to get the win. Wins and losses are a tainted stat for measuring QB greatness.

His offense scored 28 points against the best D in the league. A defense that has allowed 28 points or more 6 times in 3 years (including 8 playoff games). Brady wasn't perfect but he was very good.

[PatsWillWin 669]

We can go ahead and shut this one down.

[IHEARTFF 926]

When you go one and done 9 out of 14 tries, you're not in the same conversation with a 4 time SB champion.

ITT Terry Bradshaw is better than Peyton Manning?

[jimmykick 29]

brady's playoff games vs baltimore & seattle this season impressed me more than any of his other playoff runs. that being said, i did think his team was better than baltimore and had a slight edge over seattle. i'm not shocked by any means that they won both those games.

i think at this point, you have to give the edge to brady but it's not a landslide by any stretch. it's taken them this long in their careers for me to say that though and i say it as a big time manning supporter.

i am still convinced however, that if manning played with NE & BB, while Brady played on Colts/Denver teams, their playoff records would be very different (reversed to some degree) because i'll always attribute playoff w/l to coaching/def as much as the qb and i think brady had more help there.

[bostonfred 29,119]

When you go one and done 9 out of 14 tries, you're not in the same conversation with a 4 time SB champion.

ITT Terry Bradshaw is better than Peyton Manning?

I think part of the argument for brady is that he's had the record setting seasons, too. we've seen him win two regular season mvps in addition to his three superbowl mvps.

The debate used to be "if manning had brady's defense, he'd have won even more rings". But we've seen manning on two record setting offenses go on to lose in the playoffs with three and eight points, respectively. There is no blaming the defense for that.

But flip the script, and what could brady have done with hall of famers like manning's enjoyed? In his very first season with elite receivers, he set nfl records for himself, moss, and team offense.

So you can easily make the case that if he'd had stud talent around him his entire career, he'd have put up similar numbers. But it's much harder to make the case after all these years that manning would have done more with weaker receivers and a better d, because his individual playoff performances have so many duds.

[Raider Nation 5,597]

Tim Hasselbeck on D&C: Peyton Manning still greatest QB of all time

TL:DR

Wins/Losses are a team thing, production isn't.

Thanks for letting us know how dumb your dumb opinion is Tim.

See? Nobody can DARE suggest that Brady isn't the God of quarterbacking without getting insulted by a Pats fan.

It's an opinion. Everyone has one. Let it go.

[PatsWillWin 669]

Let it go.

lol

[Raider Nation 5,597]

3 letters. Much better than the War and Peace epic you penned about me today.

[Warsteinner 335]

When you go one and done 9 out of 14 tries, you're not in the same conversation with a 4 time SB champion.

ITT Terry Bradshaw is better than Peyton Manning?

If I had one playoff game to win I would certainly take TB over Mr. One and Done.

[IHEARTFF 926]

Brady is better at football cheating.

bump

[Gandalf the Grey 72]

Yep time to shut this one down. Any legacy Brady may have had has been irrevocably tarnished. He's an unethical lying cheater whose professional accomplishments are now all called into question.

Let's hope Pats fans can use this as a teachable moment with their kids about the danger of hubris (/wink).

Only thing missing now is a long winded pseudo-intellectual treatise from BF on how the media builds people up just to tear them down...or some such nonsensical claptrap.

Manning or Brady? Should be easy now and it ain't the morally bankrupt choice.

(No record of calls to those ballboys for several months then several hour length calls when the #### hit the fan. And he wouldn't provide his cell phone records to NFL investigators. He looked right into the camera and lied to everyone. Exposed for what he is)

[Devine Intervention 16]

This convo is feeling more and more like putting Barry bonds into the best ever in baseball category

[BigSteelThrill 5,359]

This convo is feeling more and more like putting Barry bonds into the best ever in baseball category

[NE_REVIVAL 266]

This convo is feeling more and more like putting Barry bonds Jerry "Illegal Stickum" Rice", Aaron "Over Inflated Balles" Rodgers", Terry "Steel Roid, Ball Manipulatin" Bradshaw" into the best ever in baseball NFL category

Fixed

Haha, what exactly do you think Brady did? And what exactly do you think has been proven?

We know Jerry Rice cheated and we know Aaron Rodgers cheated and we know Terry Bradshaw and the Steelers cheated, those are facts; we don't know Tom Brady cheated, we just know that Steeler\indy\Raider\Seahwak\etc fans are Whiney losers...

Carry on.....

[BigSteelThrill 5,359]

This convo is feeling more and more like putting Barry bonds Jerry "Illegal Stickum" Rice", Aaron "Over Inflated Balles" Rodgers", Terry "Steel Roid, Ball Manipulatin" Bradshaw" into the best ever in baseball NFL category

Fixed

Haha, what exactly do you think Brady did? And what exactly do you think has been proven?

We know Jerry Rice cheated and we know Aaron Rodgers cheated and we know Terry Bradshaw and the Steelers cheated, those are facts; we don't know Tom Brady cheated, we just know that Steeler\indy\Raider\Seahwak\etc fans are Whiney losers...

Carry on.....

*

[NE_REVIVAL 266]

This convo is feeling more and more like putting Barry bonds Jerry "Illegal Stickum" Rice", Aaron "Over Inflated Balles" Rodgers", Terry "Steel Roid, Ball Manipulatin" Bradshaw" into the best ever in baseball NFL category

Fixed

Haha, what exactly do you think Brady did? And what exactly do you think has been proven?

We know Jerry Rice cheated and we know Aaron Rodgers cheated and we know Terry Bradshaw and the Steelers cheated, those are facts; we don't know Tom Brady cheated, we just know that Steeler\indy\Raider\Seahwak\etc fans are Whiney losers...

Carry on.....

*

Noticed you didn't dispute any of the facts listed or present any of your own, your asterisk belongs to the Ball Manipulating Roid raged Steelers.

[BigSteelThrill 5,359]

Debating with the _*lovers isn't worth the time.

[Devine Intervention 16]

For starters Rodgers admitted to over filling before inspection. Not doctoring them post inspection. Jerry rice was never caught doing anything.

If this is true and they deflated balls then they broke the rules and they did it for a reason. You don't put yourself at risk for something that doesn't give you any advantage. You will never know how much of an advantage it gave him but he wouldn't have done it if it wasn't worth the risk. On too of that Brady has been known as an all time great in the post season in bad weather. A scenario where deflated balls would def give a larger advante

[NE_REVIVAL 266]

Debating with the _*lovers isn't worth the time.

Not surprising that you choose to ignore facts that don't fit your pov.

Good luck with that......

[Run It Up 916]

For starters Rodgers admitted to over filling before inspection. Not doctoring them post inspection. Jerry rice was never caught doing anything.

If this is true and they deflated balls then they broke the rules and they did it for a reason. You don't put yourself at risk for something that doesn't give you any advantage. You will never know how much of an advantage it gave him but he wouldn't have done it if it wasn't worth the risk. On too of that Brady has been known as an all time great in the post season in bad weather. A scenario where deflated balls would def give a larger advante

Lol, Jerry also admitted it, what does having been caught have to do with anything?

An overinflated ball travels further btw.

[BigSteelThrill 5,359]

Debating with the _*lovers isn't worth the time.

Not surprising that you choose to ignore facts that don't fit your pov.

Good luck with that......

They are off topic. I'm not biting on your deflection-ary tactics. Enjoy the * legacy.

[Devine Intervention 16]

Who knows how many guys used steroids in baseball. Bonds got caught. Hence the *.

[Dinsy Ejotuz 12,634]

Love the courtroom legalese defenses.

Maybe we should interview Brady under oath, explain the consequences of perjury, and subpoena the phone and e-mail records he refused to turn over if we're going to bring the criminal system's burden of proof into things.

[Devine Intervention 16]

I don't care if over inflated balls travel father. That's completely irrelevant. If Brady wanted to throw it farther he would've made his ball boys fill them up more. Bottom line is they deflated them for a reason. The reason is BRADY GOT AN ADVANTAGE FROM IT!!! If he wasn't gaining an advantage he wouldn't have risked it.

So again. Breaking the league rules to achieve a competitive advantage is cheating! I don't care who else did what or when. Those who get caught pay the price. He got caught cheating. He got caught giving himself an advantage and a big enough advantage that he risked it and then lied about it. So yea. Throw that * on it. If he is found guilty you can't dispute it

[Run It Up 916]

I don't care if over inflated balls travel father. That's completely irrelevant. If Brady wanted to throw it farther he would've made his ball boys fill them up more. Bottom line is they deflated them for a reason. The reason is BRADY GOT AN ADVANTAGE FROM IT!!! If he wasn't gaining an advantage he wouldn't have risked it.

So again. Breaking the league rules to achieve a competitive advantage is cheating! I don't care who else did what or when. Those who get caught pay the price. He got caught cheating. He got caught giving himself an advantage and a big enough advantage that he risked it and then lied about it. So yea. Throw that * on it. If he is found guilty you can't dispute it

Then surely you can understand why most of us don't give a #### that you hold one discrepancy of non-import higher than another. Scream asterisk from every rooftop. Scoreboard.

[BigSteelThrill 5,359]

Scoreboard.

Crap-stained legacy. Ridicule. Disdain.

At least you have a scoreboard.

[Run It Up 916]

Crap-stained legacy. Ridicule. Disdain.

According to a bunch of literally who's.

Anyone that plays the game and hasn't been personally slighted by the Patriots or Brady openly admit he is the best - granted this list grows every year as the annual steam rolling takes place as scheduled.

[Devine Intervention 16]

Then what is cheating according to patriot fans? I would love to know

[Run It Up 916]

Then what is cheating according to patriot fans? I would love to know

Cheating on the level that doesn't take place in literally every game of every season?

Something like fixing a game, or intentionally injuring an opponent. Someone directly interfering with the field of play, like Tomlin.

[BigSteelThrill 5,359]

Crap-stained legacy. Ridicule. Disdain.

According to a bunch of literally who's.

Anyone that plays the game and hasn't been personally slighted by the Patriots or Brady openly admit he is the best - granted this list grows every year as the annual steam rolling takes place as scheduled.

You are putting up a "front", a total facade. We all see it. And you and the * lovers know it.

This shit stings (we frequent other forums also, its first hand and undeniable) and everyone understands what is happening to the Brady/Patriots legacy.

Crap-stained. Ridicule. Disdain.

[Devine Intervention 16]

There was no proof that they intentionally injured players. They did pay for injuries but I didn't see them intentionally going above and beyond their regular play to hurt someone. With maybe one play as an exemption.

And do you have any proof, even an ounce of proof that any other team in the nfl has done anything of the sort?

[Run It Up 916]

There was no proof that they intentionally injured players. They did pay for injuries but I didn't see them intentionally going above and beyond their regular play to hurt someone. With maybe one play as an exemption.

And do you have any proof, even an ounce of proof that any other team in the nfl has done anything of the sort?

No, you asked a question and I gave you an answer.

Those are the things that I think don't happen on a regular basis, that I consider cheating. All this other #### is a wash that has been going on by most accounts for literally forever.

[Devine Intervention 16]

But atleast I'm glad to see you fall on the side of Barry bonds not being a cheater. Good to see there are some people out there that see it that way

[cstu 6,086]

Crap-stained legacy. Ridicule. Disdain.

According to a bunch of literally who's.

Anyone that plays the game and hasn't been personally slighted by the Patriots or Brady openly admit he is the best - granted this list grows every year as the annual steam rolling takes place as scheduled.

Brady era Patriots are forever tainted, you have to know that.

"Say it ain't so, Tom, say it ain't so!"

[IvanKaramazov 20,346]

Scoreboard.

This doesn't work when you cheated to get there.

[Chaka 6,241]

The league seems to think that Tommy Boy did something wrong.

And "It's okay if we cheat because others cheat" is a terrible argument and does nothing to support any sort of positive outcome for Brady's legacy.

Gotta agree with the *

[Run It Up 916]

Too early to tell, but Brady is the better QB, Peyton might be the better cheater.

[12punch 132]

I just voted brady

[Chaka 6,241]

Too early to tell, but Brady is the better QB, Peyton might be the better cheater.

Who cares? Tom Brady got caught cheating that makes him a cheater. What any other player or coach has done is entirely irrelevant to that conclusion.

Then again maybe Manning never cheated. I know that is a novel concept for some, which makes it difficult to process.

[spider321 1,124]

I'm gonna go with the guy that doesn't cheat.

[Run It Up 916]

I'm gonna go with the guy that doesn't cheat.

Who's that?

[Pots 168]

Put me on the side of the QB that doesn't cheat as well.