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Who's better, Manning or Brady?

Who's the better quarterback?  

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Does anyone here think if Brady was on Indy and Manning on NE that Indy would have won the game??  I didn't think so.

I think Indy would have done better in this game if Brady were their QB instead of Manning. I don't know if they would have won.
So, Brady would have been sooooo good that the Colts receivers would not have dropped so many passes, Edge would have ran for more than 40 yards, and the Colts LBs would have played in the same ballpark as the Pats' LBs? Plus, the Colts D would have actually held the Pats to less than 100 yards rushing instead of the 200+ they got? Really?
Nope. I just think he would have played better.

But I do think he would have done better with some of the things you said, too.

the Colts receivers would not have dropped so many passes - Manning was zipping passes at his receivers in the cold. It's hard to catch a fastball in the cold. Brady throws those same passes at the body and with more touch. Manning throws ahead of his receivers to get YAC, but the receivers couldn't bring the ball in.

Edge would have ran for more than 40 yards - Manning calls the play at the line. He called a number of passes when the Pats had not four, not three, not two, not one, but zero D linemen in. That seems like a good time to audible to a run.

Manning also failed to sustain a lot of drives, throwing for two or three when he needed four (I've listed the drive charts in another thread). Brady throws the ball past the line of scrimmage on third and short and picks those up more often. Generally, the only time Brady throws the ball shorter than the line of scrimmage is on third and long. Manning was 5-10 passing on third and less than ten. Brady was 4-5.

The Colts LBs would have played in the same ballpark as the Pats' LBs, plus, the Colts D would have actually held the Pats to less than 100 yards rushing instead of the 200+ they got? Really? - Well, I didn't say Brady would have made the Colts D play better, but if Manning had sustained more drives and adjusted to the conditions better, the Colts D wouldn't have been exhausted in the second half, and the Pats wouldn't have been able to put together a nine minute backbreaker. So maybe that would have helped, now that you mention it.

I really do believe that Brady would have given the Colts a better chance to win the game.

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No one is saying Manning is not a great player...but no one (but patriot fans) want to think that what Brady does makes him a great QB. Leadership should count for something.

Hi NE,

I'm not sure I understand. I don't know anyone who doesn't think Brady's a great QB.

J

He's a terrific QB. I'm not sure anyone is disputing that here.

Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

just so you know, the whole "trent dilfer" thing is getting pretty old. brady has won TWO sb's and has never lost a playoff game. please check dilfers stats and get back to me.

tia.

As long as I have watched football I have never seen a mediocre team with a great quarterback win a Super Bowl. They only seem to be good enough to make the playoffs most of the time. But a great team with a mediocre quarterback wins the Super Bowl from time to time.

I would classify New England as a great team with a very good quarterback. Manning is a great quarterback on a mediocre team.

There we go. Someone who sees the forest through the trees. :goodposting:
One post where Manning is called a great QB, while Brady is called a very good QB, you call it a good posting. Now Joe says nobody's saying Brady's not a great QB, and you agree. What changed your mind?
I know you're reaching for something--some sort of inconsistency, I guess.

Manning is a great QB. I agreed with that. It was asserted that he was better than Brady, to which I agreed.

Joe said Brady was "great," and I said I said he was "terrific."

Not sure how you're finding that inconsistent.

Edited by cobalt_27

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I didn't read through this whole thread, so it may have already been said. If the two QBs switch teams yesterday, NE still wins big. If Manning had the Patriots D at his back and Brady had to go against Belicheck and the Patriots D, we'd see the same result we saw yesterday. Manning would have shredded the Colts D and Brady would have struggled. Comparing individual players in a total team sport like football is a very difficult task. I almost refuse to do it. There are way too many variables.

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If the two QBs switch teams yesterday, NE still wins big. If Manning had the Patriots D at his back and Brady had to go against Belicheck and the Patriots D, we'd see the same result we saw yesterday. Manning would have shredded the Colts D and Brady would have struggled.

Interesting notion (and I haven't read the entirety of this thread either), but what if both QBs had to face the Patriots defense..? I mean, we all know the Colts defense (even under Dungy) isn't very good. I suppose you could also make a point that Brady has greatly benefited from playing against the Patriots defense every day in practice, too. So maybe he'd have an advantage there, too. Either way.. Brady isn't the physical talent that Manning is, but perhaps he's mentally superior in that he's proven to be more effective in the biggest games of his career and regardless of the opponent. He just always seems to make the right decision. Takes the right gambles. He has "it". Peyton will probably win a Super Bowl some day, but until he does he'll carry that stigma. For whatever reason his great numbers have never gotten him anywhere in the playoffs. You gotta win on the road and he hasn't done that. Don't feel too bad though because as an old Oilers fan (and Lions fan) let me tell you about heart break. Warren Moon. Bills. For now and until Manning wins or gets to the Super Bowl, he is the Moon and the Pats are his Bills. He's gotta find a way to get over the hump one way or another.

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Here's a better question:Would Daunte Culpepper win the Superbowl in 2001 if he was the Patriots QB then?

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Here's a better question:Would Daunte Culpepper win the Superbowl in 2001 if he was the Patriots QB then?

It depends if he was a bit quicker than Manning in pulling the ball back in. Culpepper may not have gotten the break of the century (tuck rule) and therefor would have lost to the Raiders.

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No one is saying Manning is not a great player...but no one (but patriot fans) want to think that what Brady does makes him a great QB.  Leadership should count for something.

Hi NE,

I'm not sure I understand. I don't know anyone who doesn't think Brady's a great QB.

J

He's a terrific QB. I'm not sure anyone is disputing that here.

Trent Dilfer is no Tom Brady, but he played mistake free enough to earn a Super Bowl ring.

just so you know, the whole "trent dilfer" thing is getting pretty old. brady has won TWO sb's and has never lost a playoff game. please check dilfers stats and get back to me.

tia.

As long as I have watched football I have never seen a mediocre team with a great quarterback win a Super Bowl. They only seem to be good enough to make the playoffs most of the time. But a great team with a mediocre quarterback wins the Super Bowl from time to time.

I would classify New England as a great team with a very good quarterback. Manning is a great quarterback on a mediocre team.

There we go. Someone who sees the forest through the trees. :goodposting:
One post where Manning is called a great QB, while Brady is called a very good QB, you call it a good posting. Now Joe says nobody's saying Brady's not a great QB, and you agree. What changed your mind?
Hi All...

When I posted originally, I did think many felt Brady is a "good QB" in a great system vs being a "great QB". I think Brady is a good fit for what kind of team the Patriots have. Doubt Peyton would have ever gotten his record being the QB for the Patriots. I just think a lot of people look at the overall stats.

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Week #16 in 2002 does not = the playoffs. How can you even argue that point?

Because Brady played so poorly that he cost his team the playoffs--not unlike the way many feel Manning played today.

the Patriots may win the super bowl three out of four years--but they MISSED the playoffs entirely in one year. The reason? With the season on the line (week 16) against the eventual AFC East Champions, on national TV, Brady played terribly.

Does this make Brady a bad QB? Of course not. Does it make him any less good than he really is? Not one bit. But what it should do is make the people who think Brady can't lose a big game reconsider.

Didn't finish reading the thread..but one game does not a season make. They play 16 games a year for a reason, they did not miss the playoffs because of that one game, they missed it because of the rest of the season as well.

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No one is saying Manning is not a great player...but no one (but patriot fans) want to think that what Brady does makes him a great QB. Leadership should count for something.

Hi NE,I'm not sure I understand. I don't know anyone who doesn't think Brady's a great QB.J
From recent "Manning vs. Brady, does winner go on to be the best ever?" thread.

[raises hand]I know the answer to this one.Manning + a Super Bowl win = well on his way to joining Marino, Elway, Montana, etc.Brady + another Super Bowl win = Bill Belichick is one hell of a coach.

Maybe I am getting the wrong impression but I don't think Cracker (for one) considers Brady to be a great QB ;)http://forums.footballguys.com/forum/index...opic=140106&hl=

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Week #16 in 2002 does not = the playoffs. How can you even argue that point?

Because Brady played so poorly that he cost his team the playoffs--not unlike the way many feel Manning played today.

the Patriots may win the super bowl three out of four years--but they MISSED the playoffs entirely in one year. The reason? With the season on the line (week 16) against the eventual AFC East Champions, on national TV, Brady played terribly.

Does this make Brady a bad QB? Of course not. Does it make him any less good than he really is? Not one bit. But what it should do is make the people who think Brady can't lose a big game reconsider.

Didn't finish reading the thread..but one game does not a season make. They play 16 games a year for a reason, they did not miss the playoffs because of that one game, they missed it because of the rest of the season as well.
Chase, firstly, I do not think Brady never makes mistakes or fails in the clutch or will never fail in the future. He is human and like all humans he has failed and will at least occassionally fail in the future. Having said that I do admit that I feel he is MUCH better than most will ever give him credit for.

FWIW: It is widely believed that Tom Brady played that Jets game with a seperated shoulder. I will try and find a link that might confirm that.

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We've done this before, but last time was in the middle of Manning's huge season. Does today's game change anything?

Probably time to re-visit this.

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Can't believe Brady won this.

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Choker

I assume we're talking about Brady here, who failed to convert on 8 of 10 game winning or tying drives in the last 5 minutes of games last year and had a crucial late interception in hist latest Super Bowl loss.

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I will go on the record saying that Brady will go down as one of the all-time greats. I think he will take his team to another Super Bowl win this year. He will be a shoe-in for the HOF. This arguement will be alive and kicking when that happens as Manning will have his bust sitting within 10 feet or so of Brady's. If you are a fan of either team you should be very happy to be on one side or the other.

Quoting for posterity.

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One thing that often gets overlooked in this discussion is longevity. While both have it, Peyton has the edge in it by quite a bit. Both lost a season due to injury, but Peyton played three seasons before Brady ever hit the field in the NFL. Consider this: Brady threw his first NFL touchdown pass in Week 5 of the 2001 season; prior to that Sunday, Peyton Manning had already thrown 94 touchdowns. And it's looking like Peyton's greatness is gonna extend later than Brady's as well, as Peyton has looked as good as ever last year and this year so far, while Brady is declining (still good, just not great anymore). So, even if you think Brady has the edge from 2001-2012, and that argument can certainly be made, 1998-2000 (even though Manning threw a lot of picks his rookie year) and 2013-... is a huge edge for Manning.

But yeah, over the course of their careers, if you were a fan of any of the teams they started for, you were most fortunate. They are both easily in the top 5 all-time for quarterbacks. :thumbup::thumbup:

Edited by Ghost Rider

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Brady has had the advantage of being on a great defensive team, which helped him gain home field advantage. If Manning had better defense that could get him home field in the playoffs, he'd be a near lock to make it to the Superbowl.Here are the games Manning has lost in the playoffs:1999 - Divisional loss @Indy2000 - Wild card loss @Miami2002 - Wild card loss @NYJ2003 - Conference championship loss @NE2004 - Divisional loss @NE

Manning has never scored more than 17 points OR thrown for more than 1 TD and lost a playoff game.Translation: It's not the defense that's hurting him. He's not losing playoff games 35-34.

Kind of a bad comparison stat, because Brady won Super Bowls where he wasn't really the reason they won. I believe their kicker made the difference a couple of times and their defense did in the big game as well.

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And it's looking like Peyton's greatness is gonna extend later than Brady's as well, as Peyton has looked as good as ever last year and this year so far, while Brady is declining (still good, just not great anymore).

What's your bar for being a good QB? Brady has not been a good QB this year.

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Brady is a good QB, but here's the luck he has had in his playoff games:

2004

AFC Divisional Playoff: won 20 - 3 vs. Indianapolis Colts Pats rush for over 200 yards, hold Colts to 3 points

2003

AFC Divisional Playoff: won 17 - 14 vs. Tennessee Titans Vinitieri 46 YD FG to win

AFC Championship Game: won 24 - 14 vs. Indianapolis Colts 5 Colts turnovers

Super Bowl: won 32 - 29 vs. Carolina Panthers Vinitieri 41 YD FG to win

2001

AFC Divisional Playoff: won 16 - 13 vs. Oakland Raiders The "Tuck" game

AFC Championship Game: won 24 - 17 at Pittsburgh Steelers Won by Bledsoe

Super Bowl: won 20 - 17 at St. Louis Rams Vinitieri 48 YD FG to win

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Brady has had the advantage of being on a great defensive team, which helped him gain home field advantage. If Manning had better defense that could get him home field in the playoffs, he'd be a near lock to make it to the Superbowl.Here are the games Manning has lost in the playoffs:1999 - Divisional loss @Indy2000 - Wild card loss @Miami2002 - Wild card loss @NYJ2003 - Conference championship loss @NE2004 - Divisional loss @NE

Manning has never scored more than 17 points OR thrown for more than 1 TD and lost a playoff game.Translation: It's not the defense that's hurting him. He's not losing playoff games 35-34.

Kind of a bad comparison stat, because Brady won Super Bowls where he wasn't really the reason they won. I believe their kicker made the difference a couple of times and their defense did in the big game as well.

Don't forget the guy with the camera. He made a big difference in those games too.

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Manning.

When Tom Brady went down the Pats went 11-5 and Matt Cassell passed for 4000 yards.

When Peyton Manning went down a team that had been 14-2 two years earlier went 2-14.

Ask yourself an honest question -- if Peyton Manning went to New England and had BB as his coach, and had those Pats defenses, how many rings would he have?

If Tom Brady was drafted by Indianapolis and had Mora/Dungy as his coaches and had those defenses, how many rings would he have?

I think anyone who legitimately beleives Brady would still have more rings is kidding themselves.

Tom Brady was a very good QB who landed in the perfect situation. Peyton Manning might be the best ever.

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Guest General Tso

Brady has had the advantage of being on a great defensive team, which helped him gain home field advantage. If Manning had better defense that could get him home field in the playoffs, he'd be a near lock to make it to the Superbowl.Here are the games Manning has lost in the playoffs:1999 - Divisional loss @Indy2000 - Wild card loss @Miami2002 - Wild card loss @NYJ2003 - Conference championship loss @NE2004 - Divisional loss @NE

Manning has never scored more than 17 points OR thrown for more than 1 TD and lost a playoff game.Translation: It's not the defense that's hurting him. He's not losing playoff games 35-34.

Kind of a bad comparison stat, because Brady won Super Bowls where he wasn't really the reason they won. I believe their kicker made the difference a couple of times and their defense did in the big game as well.

Don't forget the guy with the camera. He made a big difference in those games too.

LOL. Still spewing this garbage? Read the Boston Globe retraction... Ah, forget it. You know all this...

Ghost actually makes a very good case for Manning given the longevity argument. If Peyton wins one more Super Bowl I think the case is clear that he has the better legacy. Right now it's close but I still have to give the edge to the guy with 2 more rings.

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Manning.

When Tom Brady went down the Pats went 11-5 and Matt Cassell passed for 4000 yards.

When Peyton Manning went down a team that had been 14-2 two years earlier went 2-14.

Ask yourself an honest question -- if Peyton Manning went to New England and had BB as his coach, and had those Pats defenses, how many rings would he have?

If Tom Brady was drafted by Indianapolis and had Mora/Dungy as his coaches and had those defenses, how many rings would he have?

I think anyone who legitimately beleives Brady would still have more rings is kidding themselves.

Tom Brady was a very good QB who landed in the perfect situation. Peyton Manning might be the best ever.

Whenever this discussion comes up, the coaches are always overlooked. If you look at the list of best quarterbacks all-time it's practically a list of best coaches too....except when you get to Peyton Manning.

Montana and Young played with a coach that ran an offense that was ahead of its time. Brady played with one of the best ever. Elway hand Shanahan, Favre had Holmgren.

Peyton had a few years with good coaching, but a lot of years with mediocre to poor coaches behind him. What would Peyton have done playing the majority of his career with an all-time great like Montana and Brady benefited from?

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Guest General Tso

Manning.

When Tom Brady went down the Pats went 11-5 and Matt Cassell passed for 4000 yards.

When Peyton Manning went down a team that had been 14-2 two years earlier went 2-14.

Ask yourself an honest question -- if Peyton Manning went to New England and had BB as his coach, and had those Pats defenses, how many rings would he have?

If Tom Brady was drafted by Indianapolis and had Mora/Dungy as his coaches and had those defenses, how many rings would he have?

I think anyone who legitimately beleives Brady would still have more rings is kidding themselves.

Tom Brady was a very good QB who landed in the perfect situation. Peyton Manning might be the best ever.

Whenever this discussion comes up, the coaches are always overlooked. If you look at the list of best quarterbacks all-time it's practically a list of best coaches too....except when you get to Peyton Manning.

Montana and Young played with a coach that ran an offense that was ahead of its time. Brady played with one of the best ever. Elway hand Shanahan, Favre had Holmgren.

Peyton had a few years with good coaching, but a lot of years with mediocre to poor coaches behind him. What would Peyton have done playing the majority of his career with an all-time great like Montana and Brady benefited from?

Very interesting thought. One of the things that makes Manning so great is his ability / freedom to run the offense his way. Not sure how he and Brllicksk would have coexisted. I doubt it would have helped Manning's numbers, though it may have won him another trophy.

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Brady is a good QB, but here's the luck he has had in his playoff games:

2004

AFC Divisional Playoff: won 20 - 3 vs. Indianapolis Colts Pats rush for over 200 yards, hold Colts to 3 points

2003

AFC Divisional Playoff: won 17 - 14 vs. Tennessee Titans Vinitieri 46 YD FG to win

AFC Championship Game: won 24 - 14 vs. Indianapolis Colts 5 Colts turnovers

Super Bowl: won 32 - 29 vs. Carolina Panthers Vinitieri 41 YD FG to win

2001

AFC Divisional Playoff: won 16 - 13 vs. Oakland Raiders The "Tuck" game

AFC Championship Game: won 24 - 17 at Pittsburgh Steelers Won by Bledsoe

Super Bowl: won 20 - 17 at St. Louis Rams Vinitieri 48 YD FG to win

Oy, why do I even look at this crap......................................

2003

Super Bowl: won 32 - 29 vs. Carolina Panthers Vinatieri 41 YD FG to win

There are others, but that one in particular might be the most obvious example of ignorance or bias. To classify that win as lucky indicates you really don't know\care what you are talking about. I suggest you go back and watch the game, or at least do a little research (particularly the 4th quarter). If you still feel it was luck then come back and lets discuss the Vinatieris kicking and the 2 blown 4th quarter leads leading up to the "lucky" fg.

Luck? How many QBs get to throw 3tds and 7 Ints in the playoffs and still manage to win their only SB?

:whistle:

Edited by NE_REVIVAL

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And it's looking like Peyton's greatness is gonna extend later than Brady's as well, as Peyton has looked as good as ever last year and this year so far, while Brady is declining (still good, just not great anymore).

What's your bar for being a good QB? Brady has not been a good QB this year.

True, but in all fairness, I think an in-his-prime Joe Montana would struggle behind that line and throwing to those receivers. Brady is clearly on the decline, but I don't think the descent is as quick as his situation this year is making it look.

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This thread being bumped is an all-time Shark Pool travesty. Just let the time capsule be.

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Brady has had the advantage of being on a great defensive team, which helped him gain home field advantage. If Manning had better defense that could get him home field in the playoffs, he'd be a near lock to make it to the Superbowl.Here are the games Manning has lost in the playoffs:1999 - Divisional loss @Indy2000 - Wild card loss @Miami2002 - Wild card loss @NYJ2003 - Conference championship loss @NE2004 - Divisional loss @NE

Manning has never scored more than 17 points OR thrown for more than 1 TD and lost a playoff game.Translation: It's not the defense that's hurting him. He's not losing playoff games 35-34.

Kind of a bad comparison stat, because Brady won Super Bowls where he wasn't really the reason they won. I believe their kicker made the difference a couple of times and their defense did in the big game as well.
Thanks! 9 years ago no one thought of this point.

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This thread being bumped is an all-time Shark Pool travesty. Just let the time capsule be.

Agreed.

And was this topic really up for debate?

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Guest General Tso

Congrats to Manning on breaking the record. Without a doubt the greatest regular season QB of all time. I have to say though, and this is not trolling in any way, it is kind of fitting that he breaks the record by throwing three straight times on a 1st and goal from the 1. When a record is in sight, he locks onto it like a pitbull.

But there's no denying - an all time great QB and a good guy to boot. Glad to have been able to watch his career.

Edited by General Tso

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This thread being bumped is an all-time Shark Pool travesty. Just let the time capsule be.

Agreed.

And was this topic really up for debate?

according to the poll, sadly yes.

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We've done this before, but last time was in the middle of Manning's huge season. Does today's game change anything?

:popcorn:

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Manning.

When Tom Brady went down the Pats went 11-5 and Matt Cassell passed for 4000 yards.

When Peyton Manning went down a team that had been 14-2 two years earlier went 2-14.

Colts won 8 less games trotting out some of the worst QBs I've ever seen. Once they secured that #1 pick they won 2 of the final 5 with Orlovsky. But seriously 8 games trotting out Curtis Painter. The pats won 5 less games with Matt Cassell. Who is at best a journeyman but did go to a pro bowl the next season with KC and is a million times better than the guys Indy was playing at QB.

So yes the colts dropped 3 games more compared to the previous season than New England did. But to be fair the Colts were sucking for Luck and the Pats were trying to make the playoffs.

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Manning.

When Tom Brady went down the Pats went 11-5 and Matt Cassell passed for 4000 yards.

When Peyton Manning went down a team that had been 14-2 two years earlier went 2-14.

Colts won 8 less games trotting out some of the worst QBs I've ever seen. Once they secured that #1 pick they won 2 of the final 5 with Orlovsky. But seriously 8 games trotting out Curtis Painter. The pats won 5 less games with Matt Cassell. Who is at best a journeyman but did go to a pro bowl the next season with KC and is a million times better than the guys Indy was playing at QB.

So yes the colts dropped 3 games more compared to the previous season than New England did. But to be fair the Colts were sucking for Luck and the Pats were trying to make the playoffs.

Two things to note here.

1) Matt Cassel hadn't started a game at quarterback since high school when he took over for Brady. It took him a few games to get in rhythm. After that, they finished VERY strong. Cassel threw for more yards in the second half of that season with NE than Brady ever has in half a season.

2) The Patriots won 1 FEWER game in 2009 with Brady than they did in 2008 with Cassel.

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Congratulations to Peyton Manning. He is just the second quarterback in nfl history to get to 99 games above .500. He had a chance to get to 100 tonight, but lost to the only player in nfl history to ever accomplish the feat.

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Any non-Michigan fans wanna weigh in? :)

Just trying to think of a top 5 QB who came up small so often when it matters most. I don't mean top 5 as it's now defined, I'm including anybody who was in the top 5 since 1978 (when the coverage rules dramatically and inalterably changed football).

The SB pick six on what everyone assumed was the game tying/winning drive, in a vacuum, would be an unduly harsh assessment of the greatest stat padder this side of Wilt Chamberlain. But taken in the context of Peyton's many other near misses, it is perhaps emblematic of his true legacy.

Manning is almost surely the greatest to ever play the position. But if he doesn't win another ring that'll be a pretty hollow achievement.

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Manning.

When Tom Brady went down the Pats went 11-5 and Matt Cassell passed for 4000 yards.

When Peyton Manning went down a team that had been 14-2 two years earlier went 2-14.

Colts won 8 less games trotting out some of the worst QBs I've ever seen. Once they secured that #1 pick they won 2 of the final 5 with Orlovsky. But seriously 8 games trotting out Curtis Painter. The pats won 5 less games with Matt Cassell. Who is at best a journeyman but did go to a pro bowl the next season with KC and is a million times better than the guys Indy was playing at QB.

So yes the colts dropped 3 games more compared to the previous season than New England did. But to be fair the Colts were sucking for Luck and the Pats were trying to make the playoffs.

Two things to note here.

1) Matt Cassel hadn't started a game at quarterback since high school when he took over for Brady. It took him a few games to get in rhythm. After that, they finished VERY strong. Cassel threw for more yards in the second half of that season with NE than Brady ever has in half a season.

2) The Patriots won 1 FEWER game in 2009 with Brady than they did in 2008 with Cassel.

Ummm, just a cursory check of 2007 v 2008 on PFR shows that Cassel threw for a total of 2331 yds in the last 9 NE games of 2008 (6-3 WL, 14 tds 5 Ints). http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CassMa00/splits/2008/

Brady threw for 2,375 yds in just the last 8 games of 2007 (8-0 WL, 20 tds - 6 ints). http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BradTo00/splits/2007/

Nice try, but you do not know what u r talking about.

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Manning.

When Tom Brady went down the Pats went 11-5 and Matt Cassell passed for 4000 yards.

When Peyton Manning went down a team that had been 14-2 two years earlier went 2-14.

Colts won 8 less games trotting out some of the worst QBs I've ever seen. Once they secured that #1 pick they won 2 of the final 5 with Orlovsky. But seriously 8 games trotting out Curtis Painter. The pats won 5 less games with Matt Cassell. Who is at best a journeyman but did go to a pro bowl the next season with KC and is a million times better than the guys Indy was playing at QB.

So yes the colts dropped 3 games more compared to the previous season than New England did. But to be fair the Colts were sucking for Luck and the Pats were trying to make the playoffs.

Two things to note here.

1) Matt Cassel hadn't started a game at quarterback since high school when he took over for Brady. It took him a few games to get in rhythm. After that, they finished VERY strong. Cassel threw for more yards in the second half of that season with NE than Brady ever has in half a season.

2) The Patriots won 1 FEWER game in 2009 with Brady than they did in 2008 with Cassel.

Are you trying to say Cassell is better than Brady? Otherwise you're showing the whole argument is stupid. Because teams change from year to year.

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FTR, yay, Brady won the last game so I guess that makes him the best..................

There both great.

If one of them can manage to win another SB or two (or even get to another 1 or 2) then maybe something can definitively be settled (not bloody likely), for now it is more lather, rinse, repeat.......

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FTR, yay, Brady won the last game so I guess that makes him the best..................

There both great.

If one of them can manage to win another SB or two (or even get to another 1 or 2) then maybe something can definitively be settled (not bloody likely), for now it is more lather, rinse, repeat.......

Kind of like Marino/Montana if Marino had won a Super Bowl. I think Peyton wins another ring he's the guy. Otherwise, just a matter of opinion. Brady wins another that might cement it too.

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