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The Chris Johnson Hype machine (2 Viewers)

I think some people are missing the point. I'm not sure how many people who are high on CJ are even of the believe he'll be an elite RB this season. What a lot of us are trying to get across is he looks to be a very good NFL RB, as well as a top FF RB (say in the range of top-6 to top-10 eventually). Yeah, I think he could become a top-5 guy, but I'm willing to wait & see. A lot of that will depend on his situation.

The 5'11/197 - 205 thing doesn't bother at all. None, whatsoever. Not with his skill set. If CJ was as light as Warrick Dunn, then I'd be willing to go by previous history. Defintiely not in this case, tho. CJ will blow Dunn/Garner's career out of the water, IMO. That said, give him time. He's just a rookie, still learning the ropes...& the Titans haven't even begun to scratch the surface as far as the different ways to use him.

 
read it & weep, LOL ;)

like i said, tho...give him time...when it's all said & dunn (pun intended), CJ will have had a much better FF career than either Dunn or Garner

 
EBF if you disagree with this you don't understand statistics, simply put this is one of the foundations of this field of study. I understand your interest but I have a feeling your getting your feet wet in a pool with out ever learning how to swim. For a little information on this read this.
I have a degree in neuroscience. I think I know a thing or two about correlation vs. causation. Needless to say, I don't agree with your take.
Pulling out the degree card? :kicksrock: So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need to know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.

 
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EBF if you disagree with this you don't understand statistics, simply put this is one of the foundations of this field of study. I understand your interest but I have a feeling your getting your feet wet in a pool with out ever learning how to swim. For a little information on this read this.
I have a degree in neuroscience. I think I know a thing or two about correlation vs. causation. Needless to say, I don't agree with your take.
Pulling out the degree card? :kicksrock: So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.
Break it down for the dolts. Is CJ going to be a top 10 FF RB or not?I'm not arguing science at all. I just want to hear he's a stud in the making and whether I should be playing this guy or wait till he breaks out.

 
CJ will blow Dunn/Garner's career out of the water, IMO.
:kicksrock:
:mellow: After weeks one and two you're saying how he's done better than you thought, then after week 3 you're saying how he was who you thought he was. You're already comparing careers based on a very small samples. You're ignoring how successful he's been compared to rookie RBs. You're saying other rookie RBs won't be in RBBC but they fall under the same circumstances that CJ has that led you to say he will be RBBC (looking at last three games, being in RBBC). Your BMI shtick deserves to be in a 5th grade science paper.Suggestions for you:1) Consider larger samples. Don't read too much into single games. For that matter, sets of three games. I doubt you will do this however, because you love to look at small samples and make judgments, ie... (paraphrasing) "of the 4 backs that have the same BMI as CJ, they failed to be more than a RBBC. Therefore, so will CJ.2) Learn about causation vs. correlation. ie... (paraphrasing) "of the 4 backs that have the same BMI as CJ, they failed to be more than a RBBC. Therefore, so will CJ.There is a lot wrong with this.
 
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EBF, what a joke. Why do you bother even posting in this thread. Your arguments are ridiculous.
Actually, my argument is pretty solid. No RBs who are as small as Chris Johnson have become elite FF backs in the past decade. Therefore I find it unlikely that Chris Johnson will become an elite FF back.
Nice videos, what does CJ, Stewart, and Mendehall have in common? Nothing.....CJ is the only one producing on the NFL level currently.
I posted those videos to show the dramatic difference in size between Mendenhall/Stewart and Johnson. Johnson is noticeably skinny. Yes, he's the only one of the three producing consistent stats right now, but I'd argue that part of the reason for that is because his competition for touches is much weaker. He's the best offensive player on the Titans. That wouldn't be the case if he was on the Steelers or Panthers. He might not even be the best RB on those teams. Opportunity is a necessary ingredient for production. If Mendenhall and Stewart had the same opportunity as Johnson then I think they'd be producing pretty respectable numbers.

Why are you so caught up on "Full time Back"? How many of those are there in the NFL? Maybe 1, LT.
Winning FF leagues is often about having difference makers on your roster. In order to become a difference maker, a RB usually has to receive the lion's share of his teams carries. Consider the elite difference maker FF backs of the past decade:LaDainian Tomlinson

Marshall Faulk

Ahman Green

Larry Johnson

Priest Holmes

Clinton Portis

Emmitt Smith

Shaun Alexander

Tiki Barber

Ricky Williams

Jamal Lewis

Fred Taylor

Eddie George

Barry Sanders

Frank Gore

Brian Westbrook

By and large, RBBC is not what comes to mind when you think of these players. Yes, some of them split carries at some point in their career, but none of them reached the truly elite levels until they became the unquestioned bell cow for their team.

20 Touches per game is all he needs.....especially when he averages 5.5 yards per carry.
If he continues to get 20 touches per game then he'll continue to be very useful to FF teams. That said:- He's been losing crucial goal line touches to LenDale White. He won't be an elite FF back unless he gets those touches.

- We don't know that he can survive this workload over an extended period of time.

- It's possible, but unlikely that he'll sustain a 5.5 YPC. I have a hunch that his YPC might dip as he wears down over the course of the season.

Chris Johnson is a dynamic player. He has the potential to help FF teams for a long time (just like Warrick Dunn has). However, I don't think it's wrong to be skeptical of the idea that he's the next great FF back. Physically, he doesn't really resemble the guys who were able to put up multiple monster seasons and sustain elite production over an extended period of time. That tells me he probably won't be able to match their achievements and should be viewed more as a committee type.

This is not really that controversial of an argument. When he was drafted, most pundits pegged him as a speedy complement to White. IMO people who are selling the idea that he's a future workhorse have turned him into something he's not. Only time will tell if I'm right.
I'm sure you have stated this before. But how come you list Westbrook as an elite FF back & he is listed at.. 5-10 203 pounds.. CJ is listed at 5-11 & 200 pounds. Why can't he become the type of back that Westbrook is..

 
:lmao: After weeks one and two you're saying how he's done better than you thought, then after week 3 you're saying how he was who you thought he was. You're already comparing careers based on a very small samples. You're ignoring how successful he's been compared to rookie RBs. You're saying other rookie RBs won't be in RBBC but they fall under the same circumstances that CJ has that led you to say he will be RBBC (looking at last three games, being in RBBC).
Quickly:1. He's better than I initially gave him credit for being. No doubt about that.2. I still believe he's strictly a change of pace back. He was advertised as a dynamic change of pace back. That's what he appears to be.
Your BMI shtick deserves to be in a 5th grade science paper.
Give it time. It might not have any merit, but I think it's interesting.
Suggestions for you:1) Consider larger samples. Don't read too much into single games. For that matter, sets of three games. I doubt you will do this however, because you love to look at small samples and make judgments, ie... (paraphrasing) "of the 4 backs that have the same BMI as CJ, they failed to be more than a RBBC.
Despite some of my gamesmanship regarding guys like CJ and McFadden, I'm generally a big believer in taking a patient approach when evaluating prospects. Just because Johnson losing carries to White right now doesn't mean he can't eventually become "the man" like Westbrook and Tiki eventually did. A player's first three games don't usually tell us that much about what his career will look like. I understand this.However, my opinion that Chris Johnson is a career RBBC back has a lot more to do with his body type than his performance to date. I simply don't believe that an acutely undersized RB is going to become a perennial bell cow at the NFL level.
 
I'm sure you have stated this before. But how come you list Westbrook as an elite FF back & he is listed at.. 5-10 203 pounds.. CJ is listed at 5-11 & 200 pounds. Why can't he become the type of back that Westbrook is..
Using actual combine heights and weights:Brian Westbrook5'8.3" 200 poundsChris Johnson5'11" 197 poundsThis might seem like a trivial difference, but it's a pretty big when you look at BMI. Westbrook fits snugly in the range with most NFL starters. Johnson is on the low end near guys like Warrick Dunn and Reggie Bush. Johnson entered the league as a 23 year old, so the prospect of him gaining a significant amount of weight seems remote.
 
EBF, what a joke. Why do you bother even posting in this thread. Your arguments are ridiculous.
Actually, my argument is pretty solid. No RBs who are as small as Chris Johnson have become elite FF backs in the past decade. Therefore I find it unlikely that Chris Johnson will become an elite FF back.
Nice videos, what does CJ, Stewart, and Mendehall have in common? Nothing.....CJ is the only one producing on the NFL level currently.
I posted those videos to show the dramatic difference in size between Mendenhall/Stewart and Johnson. Johnson is noticeably skinny. Yes, he's the only one of the three producing consistent stats right now, but I'd argue that part of the reason for that is because his competition for touches is much weaker. He's the best offensive player on the Titans. That wouldn't be the case if he was on the Steelers or Panthers. He might not even be the best RB on those teams. Opportunity is a necessary ingredient for production. If Mendenhall and Stewart had the same opportunity as Johnson then I think they'd be producing pretty respectable numbers.

Why are you so caught up on "Full time Back"? How many of those are there in the NFL? Maybe 1, LT.
Winning FF leagues is often about having difference makers on your roster. In order to become a difference maker, a RB usually has to receive the lion's share of his teams carries. Consider the elite difference maker FF backs of the past decade:LaDainian Tomlinson

Marshall Faulk

Ahman Green

Larry Johnson

Priest Holmes

Clinton Portis

Emmitt Smith

Shaun Alexander

Tiki Barber

Ricky Williams

Jamal Lewis

Fred Taylor

Eddie George

Barry Sanders

Frank Gore

Brian Westbrook

By and large, RBBC is not what comes to mind when you think of these players. Yes, some of them split carries at some point in their career, but none of them reached the truly elite levels until they became the unquestioned bell cow for their team.

20 Touches per game is all he needs.....especially when he averages 5.5 yards per carry.
If he continues to get 20 touches per game then he'll continue to be very useful to FF teams. That said:- He's been losing crucial goal line touches to LenDale White. He won't be an elite FF back unless he gets those touches.

- We don't know that he can survive this workload over an extended period of time.

- It's possible, but unlikely that he'll sustain a 5.5 YPC. I have a hunch that his YPC might dip as he wears down over the course of the season.

Chris Johnson is a dynamic player. He has the potential to help FF teams for a long time (just like Warrick Dunn has). However, I don't think it's wrong to be skeptical of the idea that he's the next great FF back. Physically, he doesn't really resemble the guys who were able to put up multiple monster seasons and sustain elite production over an extended period of time. That tells me he probably won't be able to match their achievements and should be viewed more as a committee type.

This is not really that controversial of an argument. When he was drafted, most pundits pegged him as a speedy complement to White. IMO people who are selling the idea that he's a future workhorse have turned him into something he's not. Only time will tell if I'm right.
I'm sure you have stated this before. But how come you list Westbrook as an elite FF back & he is listed at.. 5-10 203 pounds.. CJ is listed at 5-11 & 200 pounds. Why can't he become the type of back that Westbrook is..
Another reason why his stats are flawed, which I pointed out earlier. He will say he uses Combine numbers, which are more accurate because players are frozen in time at the Combine and never have weight go up or down after the fact. Without valid data points his analysis is a guess like everyone else.

 
Without valid data points his analysis is a guess like everyone else.
:sarcasm: Along with that, even if they were accurate at the time, weight can change so much.I'm about 75% the weight of CJ, and very active (although clearly not as much as him). My weight can be +/-5 throughout the month, easily. Depends on what I ate the day before, and a lot more. I imagine that CJ weighing more, eating more, and exercising more, his weight is varying a lot. The data here is flawed, the conclusions by themselves (not counting flawed data) are flawed as well. A lot is wrong here.And EBF, I do enjoy how you say "time will tell if I'm right". I think this sums up part of your biggest problems -- data mining/hindsight bias, drawing conclusions from small data sets, and assuming that 'if it happened, it was definitely going to happen/people could guess it would happen'. Time will tell if you happened to be on the right side of CJ by chance, is probably more like it. Anything can happen in someone's career -- he could be primed for one of the best. If he gets a serious injury, I'm sure you'll be the first to say "I told ya so". And I most definitely wouldn't put it past you to ignore Ronnie Brown's injury-laden career, Chris Perry and many others who were the right BMI but couldn't hold up in the NFL.
 
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And I most definitely wouldn't put it past you to ignore Ronnie Brown's injury-laden career, Chris Perry and many others who were the right BMI but couldn't hold up in the NFL.
FWIW, I've never said that BMI is a guarantee of durability or success.prerequisite ≠ guarantee
 
And I most definitely wouldn't put it past you to ignore Ronnie Brown's injury-laden career, Chris Perry and many others who were the right BMI but couldn't hold up in the NFL.
FWIW, I've never said that BMI is a guarantee of durability or success.prerequisite ≠ guarantee
I'm impressed that you only make a few flaws, but not buying into this one. That's good I suppose.Do a larger proportion of CJ size backs get the full load, or Ronnie Brown type?

Is there enough data to judge?

Any other factors?

Try to answer these. To me, not even counting the data flaws, this sums up all of the wrong in your "analysis".

If you're having problems, go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_induction

And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludic_fallacy

 
With that being said you could be right about CJ3 but you are still ignoring facts such as how many players his size have been put in the position he has?
You bring up an interesting question.Why haven't more small athletes been put in the position Johnson has?

Do you think this is random luck or some sort of vast conspiracy against small running backs?

:eek:

The simple size of undersized elite athletes is not small. It's absolutely staggering. Every year there are millions of teenagers playing high school football. These players come in all shapes and sizes. There's no shortage of sub 200 pound players with blazing speed.
but this one has been vetted by the college process and come out successful. Then was reviewed and selected very high in the NFL process. Now he's got a shot on a solid NFL team and 3 weeks into his rookie season, despite his size, he's leading the AFC in rushing and total yards. I'm not suggesting he's going to start a wave of undersized backs coming into the league but there are exceptions to every rule and just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't especially when contrary evidence is staring you in the face.
I never said he couldn't have value to an NFL team or justify a first round selection. All I'm saying is that he appears highly unlikely to become the type of true workhorse that carries FF teams for multiple seasons.
but you aren't saying that based on his ability you are basing strictly on his size which is what I disagree with. What is the definition of a workhorse back? 70-75% of the carries? Or is it a some kind of benchmark in terms of carries 275? 325?

Last year the Titans ran for a league leading 543 rushes, 438 by the RB's and this year they are on pace for 581 rushes, 549 by RB's through 3 games. I doubt they keep up that pace but I'd venture to guess that they'll lead the league again this year. So if a guy gets 70% of the carries for an average team say like the Panthers last year who had 406 carries by RB's which would equate to 284 carries is he workhorse while a guy that gets 55% of the carries on a team the runs 500 times (275 carries) not a "workhorse"? What is that player also gets stays in on 3rd downs and gets another 40+ catches?

 
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but you aren't saying that based on his ability you are basing strictly on his size which is what I disagree with. What is the definition of a workhorse back? 70-75% of the carries? Or is it a some kind of benchmark in terms of carries 275? 325? Last year the Titans ran for a league leading 543 rushes, 438 by the RB's and this year they are on pace for 581 rushes, 549 by RB's through 3 games. I doubt they keep up that pace but I'd venture to guess that they'll lead the league again this year. So if a guy gets 70% of the carries for an average team say like the Panthers last year who had 406 carries by RB's which would equate to 284 carries is he workhorse while a guy that gets 55% of the carries on a team the runs 500 times (275 carries) not a "workhorse"? What is that player also gets stays in on 3rd downs and gets another 40+ catches?
That's a fair point.I think I would probably define a workhorse as any RB who receives a clear majority of his team's RB touches. You know it when you see it. Your point about the Titans being a running team is relevant, but not all carries are created equal. A 70% workhorse on an average team can be more productive than a 50% workhorse on a run first team if he's getting all of the goal line carries. Johnson's value would be a lot higher if he was getting the short scores that White has been vulturing. Maybe that usage pattern will change. Maybe not.
 
With that being said you could be right about CJ3 but you are still ignoring facts such as how many players his size have been put in the position he has?
You bring up an interesting question.Why haven't more small athletes been put in the position Johnson has?

Do you think this is random luck or some sort of vast conspiracy against small running backs?

:P

The simple size of undersized elite athletes is not small. It's absolutely staggering. Every year there are millions of teenagers playing high school football. These players come in all shapes and sizes. There's no shortage of sub 200 pound players with blazing speed.
but this one has been vetted by the college process and come out successful. Then was reviewed and selected very high in the NFL process. Now he's got a shot on a solid NFL team and 3 weeks into his rookie season, despite his size, he's leading the AFC in rushing and total yards. I'm not suggesting he's going to start a wave of undersized backs coming into the league but there are exceptions to every rule and just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't especially when contrary evidence is staring you in the face.
I never said he couldn't have value to an NFL team or justify a first round selection. All I'm saying is that he appears highly unlikely to become the type of true workhorse that carries FF teams for multiple seasons.
You really didn't address this post. Have we seen a guy his size with his credentials and success at the college level? And success in his rookie year like CJ? But yet you still compare CJ to this:
There's no shortage of sub 200 pound players with blazing speed
You treat all BMI's the same, when trying to exclude players from your "workhorse" list. The problem is, you can't do that.
 
Do a larger proportion of CJ size backs get the full load, or Ronnie Brown type?Is there enough data to judge? Any other factors?Try to answer these.
To me the whole argument comes down to this:The supply of elite thin athletes in America is roughly equal to the size of elite thick athletes. Despite the fact that the supply of athletes of both sizes is equal, the number of elite thick athletes having long term success as workhorse backs in the NFL is far greater than the number of elite thin athletes accomplishing the same feat. To me this suggests that the system has a built in preference for thick athletes. For whatever reason (or variety of reasons), this body type might be the only one capable of yielding a long term workhorse back in the NFL. Look at the elite FF backs of the past decade:Barry SandersEmmitt SmithCurtis MartinMarshall FaulkEddie GeorgeFred TaylorEdgerrin JamesRicky WilliamsPriest HolmesAhman GreenTiki BarberShaun AlexanderLaDainian TomlinsonJamal LewisClinton PortisBrian WestbrookLarry JohnsonBy and large, these players fit within a very narrow range of body types. Some are a little bit taller and some are a little bit thicker, but they're all pretty similar. Mostly between 5'8"-6'2" and 200-235 pounds. Almost all of them with a BMI in the 29-33 range. If there wasn't some advantage to this body type then you wouldn't expect it to dominate the position so completely. But out of millions of athletes and the many different shapes they come in, the RB position has demonstrated a clear preference for this form. I think you can infer some causality there. Function follows form. The RB position requires a specific set of physical functions that are most commonly (perhaps exclusively) found in a particular physical form.You either find this compelling or you don't. I can't "prove" anything.
 
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By and large, these players fit within a very narrow range of body types. Some are a little bit taller and some are a little bit thicker, but they're all pretty similar. Mostly between 5'8"-6'2" and 200-235 pounds. Almost all of them with a BMI in the 29-33 range. If there wasn't some advantage to this body type then you wouldn't expect it to dominate the position so completely. But out of millions of athletes and the many different shapes they come in, the RB position has demonstrated a clear preference for this form. I think you can infer some causality there. Function follows form. The RB position requires a specific set of physical functions that are most commonly (perhaps exclusively) found in a particular physical form.

You either find this compelling or you don't. I can't "prove" anything.
Aren't most physically fit, strong (and by that, I mean guys that are more into lifting weights than running marathons) men of this same size?That's a 6 inch difference, put a 5'8" 200 lb. guy and a 6'2" 235 lb guy next to each other, they aren't really the same body type.

 
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For whatever reason (or variety of reasons), this body type might be the only one capable of yielding a long term workhorse back in the NFL.
Define "long-term workhorse back".
Look at the elite FF backs of the past decade:
These backs posted elite seasons, yes. How many did it "long-term", however you define that?
Barry Sanders

Emmitt Smith

Curtis Martin

Marshall Faulk

Eddie George

Fred Taylor

Edgerrin James

Ricky Williams

Priest Holmes

Ahman Green

Tiki Barber

Shaun Alexander

LaDainian Tomlinson

Jamal Lewis

Clinton Portis

Brian Westbrook

Larry Johnson
The bolded names were/is not elite long-term backs.Priest Holmes was a workhorse for only three seasons. Unless three seasons qualify as "long-term workhorse" for you.

Brian Westbrook did not receive a significant (increase in) amount of carries until 2006 and even with a smaller workload earlier in his career, he was still injury-prone.

Larry Johnson posted two elite seasons as a workhorse back. You know what happened after that.

 
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EBF said:
Banger said:
but you aren't saying that based on his ability you are basing strictly on his size which is what I disagree with. What is the definition of a workhorse back? 70-75% of the carries? Or is it a some kind of benchmark in terms of carries 275? 325? Last year the Titans ran for a league leading 543 rushes, 438 by the RB's and this year they are on pace for 581 rushes, 549 by RB's through 3 games. I doubt they keep up that pace but I'd venture to guess that they'll lead the league again this year. So if a guy gets 70% of the carries for an average team say like the Panthers last year who had 406 carries by RB's which would equate to 284 carries is he workhorse while a guy that gets 55% of the carries on a team the runs 500 times (275 carries) not a "workhorse"? What is that player also gets stays in on 3rd downs and gets another 40+ catches?
That's a fair point.I think I would probably define a workhorse as any RB who receives a clear majority of his team's RB touches. You know it when you see it. Your point about the Titans being a running team is relevant, but not all carries are created equal. A 70% workhorse on an average team can be more productive than a 50% workhorse on a run first team if he's getting all of the goal line carries. Johnson's value would be a lot higher if he was getting the short scores that White has been vulturing. Maybe that usage pattern will change. Maybe not.
Although it's also true that the 50% carry back may get a ypc far greater on nearly the same amount of carries (not to mention the receiving yards) to offset the TD differential. For instance in my example above a "workhorse" back that gets 75% of the teams carries and ends up with 300 carries @ 4.1 ypc while the 55% back on a team that runs a ton ends up with 275 carries @ 4.7 ypc (right now CJ has a 5.5 ypc but it will probably go down). That equates to 1230 yards for workhorse and 1293 for RBBC but a back like Johnson will get a bunch of receiving yards that are not being factored in here. I agree that the vulturing will has been an issue but with CJ's ability I would also expect him to break some 7+ yarders even if White continues to get the goal line touches. Looking at the rankings CJ is right in the mix with other "workhorse" backs like Addai, Portis (who have both scored 3 tds to CJ's 1).
 
Xue said:
EBF said:
You either find this compelling or you don't. I can't "prove" anything.
So why is it such a big issue? Why not just stop posting? Why waste your time?
It's not a big issue to me. People keep badgering me about it, forcing me to rehash the same arguments I've made countless times.
 
I wonder if it will change naysayers opinions if he rips an Adrian Peterson type game ...say give or take 200 combined yards and 2-3 TD's by week 6?? The similarities are striking. Let's break it down: Electrifying rookie RB's who share carries behind more "proven" backs with good O-lines and terrible to below average QB's on teams with great defenses.

Now just for fun let's compare Adrian's 2007 rookie year and CJohnson's 2008 rookie year thru 3 games....

.... att yds avg lng td rec yds avg lng td

CJ 50 276 5.52 51 0 7 51 7.2 20 1

AP 64 271 4.23 16 1 8 160 20 60 1

By my truly unscientific and purely biased but nonetheless absolutely correct logic .....CJohnson has until about game 6 before he must turn in his 220yd 3 TD performance. Until then he is perfectly on pace for Rookie of the Year...

hehe....just sayin'...

:(

 
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I wonder if it will change naysayers opinions if he rips an Adrian Peterson type game ...say give or take 200 combined yards and 2-3 TD's by week 6?? The similarities are striking. Let's break it down: Electrifying rookie RB's who share carries behind more "proven" backs with good O-lines and terrible to below average QB's on teams with great defenses.Now just for fun let's compare Adrian's 2007 rookie year and CJohnson's 2008 rookie year thru 3 games........ att yds avg lng td rec yds avg lng tdCJ 50 276 5.52 51 0 7 51 7.2 20 1AP 64 271 4.23 16 1 8 160 20 60 1 By my truly unscientific and purely biased but nonetheless absolutely correct logic .....CJohnson has until about game 6 before he must turn in his 220yd 3 TD performance. Until then he is perfectly on pace for Rookie of the Year...hehe....just sayin'... :goodposting:
the most important factor that's DIFFERENT between the two is that, LenDale White is healthy, compared to Chester Taylor who was injured in Week 1 of last season and missed about 3-4 games...
 
I wonder if it will change naysayers opinions if he rips an Adrian Peterson type game ...say give or take 200 combined yards and 2-3 TD's by week 6?? The similarities are striking. Let's break it down: Electrifying rookie RB's who share carries behind more "proven" backs with good O-lines and terrible to below average QB's on teams with great defenses.Now just for fun let's compare Adrian's 2007 rookie year and CJohnson's 2008 rookie year thru 3 games........ att yds avg lng td rec yds avg lng tdCJ 50 276 5.52 51 0 7 51 7.2 20 1AP 64 271 4.23 16 1 8 160 20 60 1 By my truly unscientific and purely biased but nonetheless absolutely correct logic .....CJohnson has until about game 6 before he must turn in his 220yd 3 TD performance. Until then he is perfectly on pace for Rookie of the Year...hehe....just sayin'... :goodposting:
You bastage. Don't say that. Now I can't bench him.
 
I wonder if it will change naysayers opinions if he rips an Adrian Peterson type game ...say give or take 200 combined yards and 2-3 TD's by week 6?? The similarities are striking. Let's break it down: Electrifying rookie RB's who share carries behind more "proven" backs with good O-lines and terrible to below average QB's on teams with great defenses.Now just for fun let's compare Adrian's 2007 rookie year and CJohnson's 2008 rookie year thru 3 games........ att yds avg lng td rec yds avg lng tdCJ 50 276 5.52 51 0 7 51 7.2 20 1AP 64 271 4.23 16 1 8 160 20 60 1 By my truly unscientific and purely biased but nonetheless absolutely correct logic .....CJohnson has until about game 6 before he must turn in his 220yd 3 TD performance. Until then he is perfectly on pace for Rookie of the Year...hehe....just sayin'... :thumbdown:
You bastage. Don't say that. Now I can't bench him.
This ALSO brings up a good point. If you have CJ this year and you think you are in a similar situation to AP last year ....do you start CJ against bigger defenses or bench him? The AP owner in my league last year of course had AP on the bench (as I'm sure MANY MANY more people did that would not like to admit) for his 224-3 week against CHICAGO. Then he played him the rest of the season through thick and thin. He followed up by 2 mediocre games then his huge 296-3 game against SD. Then 2 good games out of the next ...Yes AP is great and talented and in a great position (as is CJ) but what good is it if you only realize what you have after some big bench points slap you in the face?? I'm not saying I'm starting him every week although so far I have save week 1....but I am hoping I won't be slapped in teh face with a 200+ 2+TD game while he's on my bench....hmmm ...I may have just convinced myself to stick him despite the Minnesota matchup!!!
 
i just traded him in a package deal that landed me McNabb. I play in 2 QB league and my QB's were horrid.

CJ is good and he will get his yards, but he wont score often and he isn't catching the ball as much as i had hoped.

He'll probably go nutty with the TD's now!

 
I wonder if it will change naysayers opinions if he rips an Adrian Peterson type game ...say give or take 200 combined yards and 2-3 TD's by week 6?? The similarities are striking. Let's break it down: Electrifying rookie RB's who share carries behind more "proven" backs with good O-lines and terrible to below average QB's on teams with great defenses.Now just for fun let's compare Adrian's 2007 rookie year and CJohnson's 2008 rookie year thru 3 games........ att yds avg lng td rec yds avg lng tdCJ 50 276 5.52 51 0 7 51 7.2 20 1AP 64 271 4.23 16 1 8 160 20 60 1 By my truly unscientific and purely biased but nonetheless absolutely correct logic .....CJohnson has until about game 6 before he must turn in his 220yd 3 TD performance. Until then he is perfectly on pace for Rookie of the Year...hehe....just sayin'... :shrug:
I'll take week 8 at home vs Indy for the win.
 
Lendale put up more fantasy points in my league than C Johnson this past week. I own both and figured Johnson would be a strong start vs. Hou. He was average. Lendale put up more points and was the better start. Whether that will continue or not is hard to say.

What I'm really curious about is how C Johnson will perform relative to White against the strong rush Ds coming up. I expect White to struggle and Johnson to have more success, but we will see I guess...

 
bucsbaby said:
What I'm really curious about is how C Johnson will perform relative to White against the strong rush Ds coming up. I expect White to struggle and Johnson to have more success, but we will see I guess...
I'm kinda thinking the same way against Minn this weekend. Their strength is their D line which really suits Tennespeeds ability to get outside more than Fatdale's ability to power through. I think he's a sneaky play this week as many owners may sit him from last weeks low production outing...
 
bucsbaby said:
What I'm really curious about is how C Johnson will perform relative to White against the strong rush Ds coming up. I expect White to struggle and Johnson to have more success, but we will see I guess...
I'm kinda thinking the same way against Minn this weekend. Their strength is their D line which really suits Tennespeeds ability to get outside more than Fatdale's ability to power through. I think he's a sneaky play this week as many owners may sit him from last weeks low production outing...
If CJ is to do well this week it will be through dump offs and run loose in open space, maybe he breaks one for a TD. I don't expect him to get many carries. Him and Bo will lead the team in receptions this week.CJ is a feast or famine option this week.
 
EBF if you disagree with this you don't understand statistics, simply put this is one of the foundations of this field of study. I understand your interest but I have a feeling your getting your feet wet in a pool with out ever learning how to swim. For a little information on this read this.
I have a degree in neuroscience. I think I know a thing or two about correlation vs. causation. Needless to say, I don't agree with your take.
Pulling out the degree card? :shrug: So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need to know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.
Wow. this is either hilarious or pathetic. I can't make up my mind.
 
EBF if you disagree with this you don't understand statistics, simply put this is one of the foundations of this field of study. I understand your interest but I have a feeling your getting your feet wet in a pool with out ever learning how to swim. For a little information on this read this.
I have a degree in neuroscience. I think I know a thing or two about correlation vs. causation. Needless to say, I don't agree with your take.
Pulling out the degree card? :yes: So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need to know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.
Wow. this is either hilarious or pathetic. I can't make up my mind.
I made up mine. Pathetic.as.hell. Props to EBF for just straight up ignoring this post. Also, for a guy that claims to have multiple graduate degrees and written papers at a graduate level, there are quite a few grammatical errors in just that short paragraph.

 
EBF if you disagree with this you don't understand statistics, simply put this is one of the foundations of this field of study. I understand your interest but I have a feeling your getting your feet wet in a pool with out ever learning how to swim. For a little information on this read this.
I have a degree in neuroscience. I think I know a thing or two about correlation vs. causation. Needless to say, I don't agree with your take.
Pulling out the degree card? :thumbdown: So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need to know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.
Wow. this is either hilarious or pathetic. I can't make up my mind.
I made up mine. Pathetic.as.hell. Props to EBF for just straight up ignoring this post. Also, for a guy that claims to have multiple graduate degrees and written papers at a graduate level, there are quite a few grammatical errors in just that short paragraph.
I don't recall anyone claiming to have a PHD in grammar.All kinds of ridiculously smart people in scientific fields can't compose a decent sentence. Maybe this guy/gal is one.

 
EBF if you disagree with this you don't understand statistics, simply put this is one of the foundations of this field of study. I understand your interest but I have a feeling your getting your feet wet in a pool with out ever learning how to swim. For a little information on this read this.
I have a degree in neuroscience. I think I know a thing or two about correlation vs. causation. Needless to say, I don't agree with your take.
Pulling out the degree card? :excited: So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need to know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.
Wow. this is either hilarious or pathetic. I can't make up my mind.
I made up mine. Pathetic.as.hell. Props to EBF for just straight up ignoring this post. Also, for a guy that claims to have multiple graduate degrees and written papers at a graduate level, there are quite a few grammatical errors in just that short paragraph.
I don't recall anyone claiming to have a PHD in grammar.All kinds of ridiculously smart people in scientific fields can't compose a decent sentence. Maybe this guy/gal is one.
Exactly, besides also being at work. Funny that an EBF cheerleader would say that when I didn't even bring it up to begin with. :yes:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
jwinston2 said:
davearm said:
tribecalledjeff said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
EBF if you disagree with this you don't understand statistics, simply put this is one of the foundations of this field of study. I understand your interest but I have a feeling your getting your feet wet in a pool with out ever learning how to swim. For a little information on this read this.
I have a degree in neuroscience. I think I know a thing or two about correlation vs. causation. Needless to say, I don't agree with your take.
Pulling out the degree card? :excited: So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need to know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.
Wow. this is either hilarious or pathetic. I can't make up my mind.
I made up mine. Pathetic.as.hell. Props to EBF for just straight up ignoring this post. Also, for a guy that claims to have multiple graduate degrees and written papers at a graduate level, there are quite a few grammatical errors in just that short paragraph.
I don't recall anyone claiming to have a PHD in grammar.All kinds of ridiculously smart people in scientific fields can't compose a decent sentence. Maybe this guy/gal is one.
Exactly, besides also being at work. Funny that an EBF cheerleader would say that when I didn't even bring it up to begin with. :blackdot:
Where did I say that I was an EBF cheerleader? I do respect his opinion, but my post to you had nothing to do with that. It had everything to do with a guy bragging about how smart he is, but doing so while writing a paragraph that was absolutely brutal to read through. The degree card is a sad one to have to play, and proves nothing except that you can't make a valid argument except for saying "I must be right, I have a lot of degrees." It reeks of insecurity. Also, if you've already posted in the thread, blackdots are not necessary.

Notice how even though I'm at work, I managed to compose complete sentences? Amazing.

 
jwinston2 said:
davearm said:
tribecalledjeff said:
AhrnCityPahnder said:
EBF if you disagree with this you don't understand statistics, simply put this is one of the foundations of this field of study. I understand your interest but I have a feeling your getting your feet wet in a pool with out ever learning how to swim. For a little information on this read this.
I have a degree in neuroscience. I think I know a thing or two about correlation vs. causation. Needless to say, I don't agree with your take.
Pulling out the degree card? :excited: So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need to know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.
Wow. this is either hilarious or pathetic. I can't make up my mind.
I made up mine. Pathetic.as.hell. Props to EBF for just straight up ignoring this post. Also, for a guy that claims to have multiple graduate degrees and written papers at a graduate level, there are quite a few grammatical errors in just that short paragraph.
I don't recall anyone claiming to have a PHD in grammar.All kinds of ridiculously smart people in scientific fields can't compose a decent sentence. Maybe this guy/gal is one.
Exactly, besides also being at work. Funny that an EBF cheerleader would say that when I didn't even bring it up to begin with. :)
Where did I say that I was an EBF cheerleader? I do respect his opinion, but my post to you had nothing to do with that. It had everything to do with a guy bragging about how smart he is, but doing so while writing a paragraph that was absolutely brutal to read through. The degree card is a sad one to have to play, and proves nothing except that you can't make a valid argument except for saying "I must be right, I have a lot of degrees." It reeks of insecurity. Also, if you've already posted in the thread, blackdots are not necessary.

Notice how even though I'm at work, I managed to compose complete sentences? Amazing.
Maybe you did not bother to read, but the "I have a degree in neuroscience. I think I know a thing or two about correlation vs. causation." was not stated by me first. However since EBF felt it was necessary to pull out the "degree card," as you have pointed out, then I was making sure he understood that means nothing as many of us have degrees. Since you have chosen to ignore this fact and instead attack me, I am going to say you are being a hypocrite/cheerleader and will use the :thumbdown: Yes your grammar and written composition are outstanding, you win and I fail.

 
So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need to know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.
Get over yourself. I know tons of people who did not even get their bachelors that, as professionals, have written whitepapers that have been published and received merit. I'm glad you went to school for a LONG time, and spent more time learning how to learn - which is all that universities are about - than anything else. Every day people walk out of universities with PhDs, doctorates, and masters degrees who have no clue what to do in the real world.
 
So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need to know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.
Get over yourself. I know tons of people who did not even get their bachelors that, as professionals, have written whitepapers that have been published and received merit. I'm glad you went to school for a LONG time, and spent more time learning how to learn - which is all that universities are about - than anything else. Every day people walk out of universities with PhDs, doctorates, and masters degrees who have no clue what to do in the real world.
:goodposting: I have a masters degree and I agree 100%. The majority of those people remain in academia because they are afraid of the real world. I would say 80-90% of those people are socially handicapped.

 
So you have a graduate education in neuroscience? If you just have a B.S. that is irrelevant. You have not done any real studies, written papers, etc. However I have done this because I have gone to graduate school with multiple degrees, Biomedical Engineering/Biochemistry, God I hate pulling out the degree card. If you have attempted higher education you would know this is not a take, but rather simple fact. I know your undergraduate professors did not teach you this because quite simple you did not need to know. As someone who has taught this though I can promise you that you are wrong, all proper and well done scientific method is based on this golden rule.
Get over yourself. I know tons of people who did not even get their bachelors that, as professionals, have written whitepapers that have been published and received merit. I'm glad you went to school for a LONG time, and spent more time learning how to learn - which is all that universities are about - than anything else. Every day people walk out of universities with PhDs, doctorates, and masters degrees who have no clue what to do in the real world.
:rolleyes: I have a masters degree and I agree 100%. The majority of those people remain in academia because they are afraid of the real world. I would say 80-90% of those people are socially handicapped.
:shrug: As a phd candidate, I agree that many professors are very elistist, arrogant, and out to lunch.

 

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