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The Chris Johnson Hype machine (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ForWhoForWhat
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Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
D Davis was a great FF performer until he got severely injured. So I'm not sure that comparison really makes your case.EBF, it's not exactly a stretch to say that, typically, most RBs do better when surrounded by a good supporting cast. They tend to get a higher YPC, and score more TDs. (at least, that is my hypothesis - haven't tested it with data yet) If you accept that hypothesis, then your criticism of CJ seems off base.There's little denying that part of the reason why he's getting so many touches is for lack of other viable options. What else is Tennesee going to do? Give the ball to LenDale "three yards and a cloud of bust" White? Chuck it deep to Justin Gage and Justin McCareins? Playing on a good team can be advantageous for a RB because it can lead to more goal line opportunities. Playing on a bad team can be advantageous for a RB because it means he's the only option on offense. Domanick Davis was a much better FF back than NFL back because the Texans were constantly feeding him the ball out of desperation. We're seeing the same thing with Forte and Johnson.Yes, history is littered with RBs who excelled on bad teams. CJ definitely gets more opportunities to make plays when the whole defense is keying on him.
EBF
Footballguy
Davis is a good example of a very ordinary player who excelled because his team force fed him the ball for lack of better options. This is not to say that CJ is an average talent like Davis was, but rather that I think his situation is similar.
Yes, but on how many NFL teams would Johnson be getting 15-20 touches per week? This is not "criticism" of CJ. I'm merely pointing out that being on a horrible team with no viable RBs or WRs means he's the centerpiece of the offense. He'd probably have a much smaller role on 50-75% of the teams in the league.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Cookiemonster
Footballguy
That's why he lasted 'till the end of the 1st, not the top 1/2 like Stewart or McFadden, right? Not many teams had lesser needs. Eventually, a team that had a solid but unspectacular starter, couldn't pass on him. This is not a "horrible" team, but a smashmouth-type team. Comparing Dom Davis to CJ is just throwing #### to the wall at this point. Don't backpedal, or come up w/ crap comparisons. Just say that you underestimated his talent, but are still unsure of his longevity potential so that you don't have to discount all of the BMI work you've done, and go try to cover your ### after the Monday nite game with Mendenhall in his thread. Nevermind. You'll say he's playing a top run-stuffing defense... unlike CJ did today.
EBF
Footballguy
I didn't say he's similar to Davis. I said their situations are similar.
That's basically what I've been saying lately.
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Cookiemonster
Footballguy
He scored his 2nd TD after the "injury." I'm not so sure there was anything more than a cramp, or fatigue, or a lead and a fat-assed RB that could come take a toll on the middle of the defense.
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
Your argument is irrelevant. Sure, if he was on a dominant team that ALREADY had a top-RB, then he wouldn't get 20 touches per game. But newsflash -- those teams (e.g., San Diego) didn't draft him! So it's a meaningless argument. He was drafted by a team that will get him 15-20 touches per game, period. If the Titans happen to draft a couple of playmaking WRs, fantastic! That means defenses won't be able to key on CJ, and he will STILL get 15-20 touches per game. In fact, most teams tend to give their best RB at least 15-20 touches per game, that's just the way it works.
I wish my Broncos were so "Bad" as to be 4-0.
He lost me quite a bit every time he says bad or horrible. The Titans are one of 3 undefeated teams (hard to call Baltimore undefeated since they are only 2-0 right now) and have the #1 point differential in the NFL.Also, for such a horrid team, they are the 9th highest scoring team in the NFL (25+ ppg), i.e. there defense is playing great, but the offense is scoring as well. CJ is easily their best offensive player, so I just can't see how they can a) be called a horrible team and b) not be considered a good offensive team. It sure isn't LenDale or Vince or Kerry that opposing coaches are worried about, so CJ must be a lot of what is driving their top 10 scoring offense.Burning Sensation
Footballguy
How? The titans are a good team, with a good defense, the Texans had neither of these things.
The Texans actually had a very good WR, the Titans do not.
Davis got alot of dumpoff passes because the team was always playing from behind, and Carr was not good enough to get the ball to his WR's. This is clearly not a situation CJ is benefiting from.
EBF
Footballguy
The Titans haven't beaten anyone. Their opponents are a combined 3-8 in their games against other teams. Saying they're a horrible team was probably an exaggeration, but I don't consider them one of the better teams in the NFL. They do have a good defense, but their offense suffers from an acute lack of playmakers. Their QB is a journeyman on the back end of his career. Their starting WRs are castoffs from mediocre teams. Chris Johnson is easily their biggest threat on offense.I wish my Broncos were so "Bad" as to be 4-0.
He lost me quite a bit every time he says bad or horrible. The Titans are one of 3 undefeated teams (hard to call Baltimore undefeated since they are only 2-0 right now) and have the #1 point differential in the NFL.Also, for such a horrid team, they are the 9th highest scoring team in the NFL (25+ ppg), i.e. there defense is playing great, but the offense is scoring as well. CJ is easily their best offensive player, so I just can't see how they can a) be called a horrible team and b) not be considered a good offensive team. It sure isn't LenDale or Vince or Kerry that opposing coaches are worried about, so CJ must be a lot of what is driving their top 10 scoring offense.
Right. So other teams will game plan specifically for him. So, how does that benefit him again?The Titans haven't beaten anyone. Their opponents are a combined 3-8 in their games against other teams. Saying they're a horrible team was probably an exaggeration, but I don't consider them one of the better teams in the NFL. They do have a good defense, but their offense suffers from an acute lack of playmakers. Their QB is a journeyman on the back end of his career. Their starting WRs are castoffs from mediocre teams. Chris Johnson is easily their biggest threat on offense.I wish my Broncos were so "Bad" as to be 4-0.
Also, for such a horrid team, they are the 9th highest scoring team in the NFL (25+ ppg), i.e. there defense is playing great, but the offense is scoring as well. CJ is easily their best offensive player, so I just can't see how they can a) be called a horrible team and b) not be considered a good offensive team. It sure isn't LenDale or Vince or Kerry that opposing coaches are worried about, so CJ must be a lot of what is driving their top 10 scoring offense.
EBF
Footballguy
Neither team had any semblance of a passing attack. Both teams were forced to feed their starting RB the ball because it was the only way they could move the chains.
EBF
Footballguy
Are you even reading what I'm typing? I already said that. I'll put some space between each word so you have extra time to process this:Right. So other teams will game plan specifically for him. So, how does that benefit him again?The Titans haven't beaten anyone. Their opponents are a combined 3-8 in their games against other teams. Saying they're a horrible team was probably an exaggeration, but I don't consider them one of the better teams in the NFL. They do have a good defense, but their offense suffers from an acute lack of playmakers. Their QB is a journeyman on the back end of his career. Their starting WRs are castoffs from mediocre teams. Chris Johnson is easily their biggest threat on offense.I wish my Broncos were so "Bad" as to be 4-0.
Also, for such a horrid team, they are the 9th highest scoring team in the NFL (25+ ppg), i.e. there defense is playing great, but the offense is scoring as well. CJ is easily their best offensive player, so I just can't see how they can a) be called a horrible team and b) not be considered a good offensive team. It sure isn't LenDale or Vince or Kerry that opposing coaches are worried about, so CJ must be a lot of what is driving their top 10 scoring offense.
Being
the
only
good
offensive
player
on
the
team
helps
him
because
the
team
is
forced
to
feed
him
the
ball.
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That would be great except they're not feeding him the ball. Forte is getting fed the ball. CJ is seeing a pretty normal amount of carries for a starting RB, especially since he has to share with Fatdale. He only rushed 17 times today. His QB, btw, threw the ball 35 times. Is that what you mean by feeding him the ball?Are you even reading what I'm typing? I already said that. I'll put some space between each word so you have extra time to process this:Right. So other teams will game plan specifically for him. So, how does that benefit him again?The Titans haven't beaten anyone. Their opponents are a combined 3-8 in their games against other teams. Saying they're a horrible team was probably an exaggeration, but I don't consider them one of the better teams in the NFL. They do have a good defense, but their offense suffers from an acute lack of playmakers. Their QB is a journeyman on the back end of his career. Their starting WRs are castoffs from mediocre teams. Chris Johnson is easily their biggest threat on offense.I wish my Broncos were so "Bad" as to be 4-0.He lost me quite a bit every time he says bad or horrible. The Titans are one of 3 undefeated teams (hard to call Baltimore undefeated since they are only 2-0 right now) and have the #1 point differential in the NFL.
Also, for such a horrid team, they are the 9th highest scoring team in the NFL (25+ ppg), i.e. there defense is playing great, but the offense is scoring as well. CJ is easily their best offensive player, so I just can't see how they can a) be called a horrible team and b) not be considered a good offensive team. It sure isn't LenDale or Vince or Kerry that opposing coaches are worried about, so CJ must be a lot of what is driving their top 10 scoring offense.
Being
the
only
good
offensive
player
on
the
team
helps
him
because
the
team
is
forced
to
feed
him
the
ball.
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
Das Boot
Footballguy
So going with the logic that CJ is getting more touches on the Titans than he would on other teams, is he doing more with those touches than many other RBs would?Seems like he's doing pretty well with his opportunity so far... he's RB13 and RB14 in my 2 PPR leagues going into today.
Define "one of the better teams in the NFL."They have beaten mediocre and bad teams, but they have won by two scores in 3/4 games. Teams that beatdown bad teams perform well in the playoffs (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/fo-fox-guts-and-stomps).
msommer
Footballguy
Two pretty good arguments.Now, from someone who saw the game - what was the situation when he got the ball at the 1 - White had just fumbled, right? It was a toss IIRC, right?Second time was from the 6 - was that up the middle or was it bounced as well?
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Xue
Footballguy
50-75% of what? Can you quantify this for me?On a better team he would probably get the same AMOUNT of production, but less of a PERCENTAGE because his WHOLE TEAM is producing MORE as a WHOLE.Let's say you put CJ and Lendale on the Cowboys. You're right that CJ would get less PERCENTAGE of a role compared to his WHOLE TEAM because perhaps his whole team is producing more as a WHOLE, but is he absolutely producing less in terms of TOTALS, not PERCENTAGE?
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Football Jones
Footballguy
Welp...you gotta be impressed. Super-duper-tough run D, & it's not like Kerry Collins & the WRs are going to scare anybody, LOL. The Vikes were obviously playing run, but CJ produced.
BTW, I've seen some comments regarding CJ's lack of heavy involvment in the passing game, but that's coming. Fisher/Heimerdinger haven't even scratched the surface yet (as far as the different ways to use CJ). He'll still end up with 50 or so receptions this season & CJ has the ability to catch 70 year-in, year-out.
I couldn't be happier after 4 games. This kid is going to be a special player.
BTW, I've seen some comments regarding CJ's lack of heavy involvment in the passing game, but that's coming. Fisher/Heimerdinger haven't even scratched the surface yet (as far as the different ways to use CJ). He'll still end up with 50 or so receptions this season & CJ has the ability to catch 70 year-in, year-out.
I couldn't be happier after 4 games. This kid is going to be a special player.
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What do you base this on? Comments? Links?
Tackling Dummies
Footballguy
Titans, players comment on Chris Johnson
"He's probably come along father than I thought he would on pass protections," offensive coordinator Mike Heimerdinger said. "For us to put him in on third downs, that doesn't usually happen with a rookie. As far as running, I've never worried about that very much ... If he does what he did on his two touchdown runs, that gives us something else where we don't have to pound him up the middle all the time."
Michael Fox Fan
Footballguy
This has reached the point of being comical. Given how many carries Fatdale has - and how much more productive CJ has been than Fatdale - it's amusing to see anyone make the claim that the Titans have been *forced* to feed him the ball.Are you even reading what I'm typing? I already said that. I'll put some space between each word so you have extra time to process this:Right. So other teams will game plan specifically for him. So, how does that benefit him again?The Titans haven't beaten anyone. Their opponents are a combined 3-8 in their games against other teams. Saying they're a horrible team was probably an exaggeration, but I don't consider them one of the better teams in the NFL. They do have a good defense, but their offense suffers from an acute lack of playmakers. Their QB is a journeyman on the back end of his career. Their starting WRs are castoffs from mediocre teams. Chris Johnson is easily their biggest threat on offense.I wish my Broncos were so "Bad" as to be 4-0.He lost me quite a bit every time he says bad or horrible. The Titans are one of 3 undefeated teams (hard to call Baltimore undefeated since they are only 2-0 right now) and have the #1 point differential in the NFL.
Also, for such a horrid team, they are the 9th highest scoring team in the NFL (25+ ppg), i.e. there defense is playing great, but the offense is scoring as well. CJ is easily their best offensive player, so I just can't see how they can a) be called a horrible team and b) not be considered a good offensive team. It sure isn't LenDale or Vince or Kerry that opposing coaches are worried about, so CJ must be a lot of what is driving their top 10 scoring offense.
Being
the
only
good
offensive
player
on
the
team
helps
him
because
the
team
is
forced
to
feed
him
the
ball.
Football Jones
Footballguy
No links. Maybe a few comments from Fisher/Heimerdinger I've seen here & there. Mostly it's just my opinon, tho (in short, educated assumptions based on many years of following the NFL).
the turnip
Footballguy
I am on the bandwagon. Question is what's he worth in a dynasty league? FBG currently have him the 62 player overall and the 17th best running back. That's gotta change doesn't it?
What would you move him for or give up to get him?
What would you move him for or give up to get him?
Burning Sensation
Footballguy
I love FBG, but their dynasty rankings are not very good. If you want real dynasty rankings, F&L's are the way to go. The guy knows his stuff, and is always willing to discuss his rankings.I should point out that there are a couple guys from FBG who do a decent job, but there are also a couple of them, particularly one guy who is absolutely horrible.
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Steady Mooobin
Footballguy
Just stop. You look more and more foolish with each post.CJ isn't being force fed the ball. If he was, he would have 25+ carries a game. Since he is the only good offensive player on the team, wouldn't it be easier for teams to try and stop him?Are you even reading what I'm typing? I already said that. I'll put some space between each word so you have extra time to process this:Right. So other teams will game plan specifically for him. So, how does that benefit him again?The Titans haven't beaten anyone. Their opponents are a combined 3-8 in their games against other teams. Saying they're a horrible team was probably an exaggeration, but I don't consider them one of the better teams in the NFL. They do have a good defense, but their offense suffers from an acute lack of playmakers. Their QB is a journeyman on the back end of his career. Their starting WRs are castoffs from mediocre teams. Chris Johnson is easily their biggest threat on offense.I wish my Broncos were so "Bad" as to be 4-0.
Also, for such a horrid team, they are the 9th highest scoring team in the NFL (25+ ppg), i.e. there defense is playing great, but the offense is scoring as well. CJ is easily their best offensive player, so I just can't see how they can a) be called a horrible team and b) not be considered a good offensive team. It sure isn't LenDale or Vince or Kerry that opposing coaches are worried about, so CJ must be a lot of what is driving their top 10 scoring offense.
Being
the
only
good
offensive
player
on
the
team
helps
him
because
the
team
is
forced
to
feed
him
the
ball.
You keep digging that hole, it's fun to see you try and dig yourself out with each post.
THE UNDERCOVER BROTHA
Footballguy
is my boy getting red zone work now.... COOL
I thought fatdale would steal all of this td's.
At this point lendale is no different than Pittman/Hightower.
CJ is the main FOCAL point of the titans.
I thought fatdale would steal all of this td's.
At this point lendale is no different than Pittman/Hightower.
CJ is the main FOCAL point of the titans.
munchkin
Footballguy
Other rookie rb productions yesterday; Forte 24 touches 85 yds, Felix Jones (not involved), McFadden 9 for 37, 7 for 18 1-td, S Slaton 18 for 116 1-td; J Stewart 14 for 52 1-td. CJ's numbers, 20 for 75 2-td's, look pretty good against a very solid run defense. Granted the last TD was a gimme from the 6 following an interception but he produced when given the opportunity. I would like to see him involved int the passing game more as well but he is doing well considering he is the focus of the offense. Using Lendale is smart in that it keeps CJ from getting killed as an every down back.
Slaton has to be the big surprise thus far but he is certainly helped by the fact that they have NFL quality wr's, qb's and a tight end. I don't know that having CJ would improve the overall record of the Houston team but it would be interesting to see how he would perform in an offense that has other legitimate threats around him.
By the way, I played CJ along with MJD yesterday with Westy out and R Brown on bye. Is there a more frustrating player than MJD in that Jax offense?
Slaton has to be the big surprise thus far but he is certainly helped by the fact that they have NFL quality wr's, qb's and a tight end. I don't know that having CJ would improve the overall record of the Houston team but it would be interesting to see how he would perform in an offense that has other legitimate threats around him.
By the way, I played CJ along with MJD yesterday with Westy out and R Brown on bye. Is there a more frustrating player than MJD in that Jax offense?
Anyone know the record for the longest thread on one player on "the Shark Pool"? Since this is only week 4, I'm wondering if this will be it...
Back on topic, what's the status on his injury that caused him to miss some of the game. Haven't heard anything more, so am assuming its minor.
On the topic of how he's used... I think its smart for Tenn to use Lendale to soften up the def and then let CJ go to work... He's being used perfectly right now- they just need to get him some more passes out in open space... I can't figure why that's not happening, other than to assume it's coming...
Back on topic, what's the status on his injury that caused him to miss some of the game. Haven't heard anything more, so am assuming its minor.
On the topic of how he's used... I think its smart for Tenn to use Lendale to soften up the def and then let CJ go to work... He's being used perfectly right now- they just need to get him some more passes out in open space... I can't figure why that's not happening, other than to assume it's coming...
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
Choo choo mf'ers.
More tough sledding ahead at Balt next week. Then week 6 Bye to cool his jets. @ KC, home vs Indy following the bye.
More tough sledding ahead at Balt next week. Then week 6 Bye to cool his jets. @ KC, home vs Indy following the bye.
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TitusIII
Footballguy
Looking good, regarding the touches argument, it makes perfect sense for the Titans to not overwork Johnson due his size/experience in the league. Forte gets fed the ball because he is a hoss, but I do believe it will hurt him and his fantasy owners come playoff time. As long as CJ gets his 15-20 touches, he has an excellent chance to put up #1.5 fantasy-back numbers. Keep on rolling CJ!
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packersfan
Footballguy
I wrote last week that perhaps the bloom was wearing off Johnson's rose. I worried that his prospects were not good going against an elite Minnesota run defense. All he did was look impressive and score twice.
I was wrong to question him.
I will not question him again.
He's the real deal.
He hasn't left my starting lineup yet and he won't unless he's dead - and even then I might still start him given how good he is.
I was wrong to question him.
I will not question him again.
He's the real deal.
He hasn't left my starting lineup yet and he won't unless he's dead - and even then I might still start him given how good he is.
PumpusX
Footballguy
ReShard Lee
corpcow
Footballguy
In fairness, this was also one of the toughest run defenses in the league - they are 4th overall and 3rd best in YPC.Outside of his one big 57 yd run, Ryan Grant only managed 3.18 YPC. They held the two CAR backs to a paltry 2.47 YPC, with Stewart notably only putting up 7 for 15 and a score. They held Addai to 20 yards on 15 carries, for a stellar 1.3 YPC. In this game, they held Lendale to 13 yards on 11 carries, which comes in at 1.18 YPC.Against the backdrop of these numbers, 17/61/2 for a 3.58 YPC and a long run of 9 (i.e., not buoyed by one big run) actually looks pretty damn good.Just saying.
FUBAR
Footballguy
There's not many RBs I'd trade him for.PetersonLTWestbrookAddaiSJaxPortisThen it gets tenuous, and I'm not even sure I'd trade him for some of these guys.
Dexter Manley
Footballguy
I was lmao in the 1st quarter when the Titans were down by the goalline. Lendale lost his shoe and his foot was too fat for him to put it back on himself. I think it took 2 guys on the sideline working in tandem to get that shoe back on Lendale's fat foot, lol. That helped set events in motion which led to LBJ's first TD.
Luckily, LBJ's BMI is relatively low compared to most starting rb's, so he's got skinny feet and should he happen to run out of a shoe, he won't have any issues putting it back on himself, and thus not be forced to miss any playing time.
Luckily, LBJ's BMI is relatively low compared to most starting rb's, so he's got skinny feet and should he happen to run out of a shoe, he won't have any issues putting it back on himself, and thus not be forced to miss any playing time.
Buck Bradcanon
Footballguy
would have loved to see this.In other unrelated news, Collins must not have been available for the postgame interview, because they instead interviewed some 150lb dude that looked like he was pulled straight out of a trailer park meth lab. Good Lord that guy is an NFL QB?
Football Jones
Footballguy
That was pretty funny, LOL. If I remember right, tho, the play before CJ scored his 1st TD was the review play (he already had his shoe back on). After White's fumble was overturned, I was expecting White to go back out there & punch it in, but they switched to CJ. I'm sure they decided to run the play during the break & that type of play is just designed more for CJ.
jamil
Footballguy
yea i don't think i can picture lendale trying to beat somebody to the corner.
shader
Footballguy
EBF has hated on the Titans as long as I've read this board. Despite the fact that the front office has built an amazing defense and the team is 4-0 and playing well, he thinks the front office is bad, CJ is slight and overrated, and is generally pessimistic about the team. Which is his right.
But that just tells me he's too offensive oriented. The defense is as good as Tenn has ever had. Defense wins championships, not BMI and fantasy stats.
But that just tells me he's too offensive oriented. The defense is as good as Tenn has ever had. Defense wins championships, not BMI and fantasy stats.
Both his TD runs were to the outside, one to the left, and one to the right. He scored EASILY on both of them. He also got fantastic blocks on both of them from FB A.Hall. Especially the first one to the left when Hall just pounded the poor DB on that side right onto his ### so CJ could walk in. There's a good clip of that on NFL.com. This Titans team is built to run, and CJ is in for a big year if he can stay healthy. Sharing the load with Lendale should help him.
Fear & Loathing
Footballguy
Titans are the best team I've seen this year. Their defense is flat out dominant, and Chris Johnson is just what the doctor ordered for that offense. They're a legit contender.shader said:
Superbowl time in Nashville...
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