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Stinkin Ref

PDSL BSS Discussion Thread......

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Hey Ref...thanks for doing these. I'm reading every word...

:goodposting:

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:2cents: 5.05 - Jeter23 - Sam Bradford, STL, QB147.05 - Jeter23 - Kevin Kolb, PHI, QB2119.05 - Jeter23 - Matt Flynn, GB, QB34I really like Bradford in that offense and he even gets more of a boost with McD in town. Expect him to out produce the QB14 spot where you got him. After that man I don’t know. You are banking on Kolb getting traded but just not sure that happens. If it does, it vaults you up probably 10 spots in QB only rankings, but if not, trouble. Was looking at your draft and to me the key pick for you was the Holmes pick. When you went WR with 3 of your first 4 picks it really dictated a few things. In a start 3 WR I can see why you did what you did, and you probably knew it would have some consequence. While not directly affecting your backup QB, I think it did somewhat. Could be in trouble here, but I like the Bradford pick.1.05 - Jeter23 - Jamaal Charles, KC, RB58.12 - jeter23 - Ryan Torain, WASH, RB3711.05 - Jeter23 - Bernard Scott, CIN, RB4814.12 - jeter23 - Rashad Jennings, TEN, RB5517.05 - Jeter23 - Justin Forsett, SEA, RB6322.12 - jeter23 - Marcel Reece, OAK, RB8724.12 - jeter23 - Jonathan Dwyer, PIT, RB97Whew….I like Torain probably more than most people in these things, but if he isn’t what we think, you could be hurtin here. I think you even mentioned you needed a body and there he was. I think he’s got game, but obviously this is where the Holmes pick had the most affect on your team. Holmes seemed a little bit like a luxury with Fitz and Desean on board. So then you have to go Bradford where you got him. If you don’t take Holmes, one of your 4/5 picks could be a RB2 and Bradford. Now by the time it gets back to you in 6th almost all the RB’s are dried up. I understand the Lewis pick as he seemed like value there as TE15 and you can’t really pass that up. But that also cost you RB and then you went Kolb in 7th. Tough run not getting two RB’s in 1st seven picks and picking towards the end of round 8. You have some solid depth here in that your backups could still be productive, but we’ll see. In this draft the name Jason Campbell keeps popping up for me as I think he was a little undervalued with all of the question marks at QB and OAK seeming have committed to him. I would have liked him on this team instead of Kolb. You could have gotten him in the 9th, a RB2 with the 4th and a solid WR3 with the 7th, maybe not a Holmes, but possibly close. 2.12- jeter23 - Larry FItzgerald, ARI, WR73.05 - Jeter23 - Desean Jackson, PHI, WR124.12- jeter23 - Santonio Holmes, NYJ, WR249.05 - Jeter23 - Davone Bess, MIA, WR4818.12 - jeter23 - Eric Decker, DEN, WR9221.05 - Jeter23 - Greg Little, ROOKIE, WR10623.05 - Jeter23 - Julian Edelman, NE, WR116Really like this group. Definite strength and like what you did late. One more body might have been good in a start 3, maybe instead of your two late flyers at RB you could have snagged a WR.6.12 - jeter23 - Marcedes Lewis, JAX, TE1510.12 - jeter23 - Ben Watson, CLE, TE2520.12 - jeter23 - Ed Dickson, BAL, TE35Like this group as well and feel you should get a solid score here. Personally I thought you got a ton of value where you got them. For some reason Watson as TE25 seems like robbery. I don’t think any of us expect a repeat performance by Lewis, but even if you get ¾ of what he did it should be nice as TE15 and this group should keep its head above water easily. 12.12 - jeter23 - Arizona Cardinals, DST1613.05 - Jeter23 - Tampa Bay Buccaneers, DST2215.05 - Jeter23 - Adam Vinatieri, INDY, PK1116.12 - jeter23 - David Buehler, DAL, PK21Works. Overall: If Torain is the real deal, I like this team. But it seems like a couple of other decisions could have really put you in a better overall spot. Kolb getting traded bumps this whole team up, and getting consistent RB2 scores could be tough. With your top 2 WR’s on board, I guess I maybe would have liked to have seen a Moreno/Bradshaw or something added in the 4th round. But you’ll get a decent ranking cause I think Torain runs hard and I like his game and so does Shanny.Might have to shuffle these a little later….think what is making it tough is each team will have a weakness and its almost a matter of which weakness causes the least amount of damage. 1. Jeff Pasquino2. Razrback773. Reaper4. Football Critic5. Jeter236. Kruppe7. Eakfootball8. BSS9. OrgazmoNext up Steel Dillo....on deck Norse…

Thanks for doing these Ref. I pretty much agree with everything regarding my team. I have not looked closely at most f the other team, but middle or the pack is about where I see my team finishing.

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:2cents:

2.05- Steel Dillo - Tom Brady, NE, QB5

8.05 - Steel Dillo - Ryan Fitzpatrick, BUF, QB24

23.12 - Steel Dillo Jimmy Clausen, CAR, QB44

Brady is a great pick in these things. It seems like he hardly ever gets shut out and will post a good score each week. I think Fitz is somewhat underrated and makes for a great QB2 in these leagues as he can put up some monster weeks. BUF will probably take a QB at some point in this draft, but if it is not in the first, then I could see Fitz being the opening day starter and hanging on to the gig for awhile. I thought that was a great pick at the end of the QB2 run. The Clausen pick is kind of a yawner.

1.12 - Steel Dillo - Rashard Mendenhall, PIT, RB8

6.05 - Steel Dillo - Marshawn Lynch, SEA, RB25

11.12 - Steel Dillo - Chris Ivory, NO, RB49

15.12 - Steel Dillo - Cadillac Williams, TB, RB59

19.12 - Steel Dillo - Keiland Williams, WASH, RB74

24.05 - Steel Dillo - -Kevin Smith, DET, RB92

Cant complain about Mendy and being able to get Lynch in the 6th seems like good value. Im not really letting his Tecmo Bowl run in the playoffs cloud my judgment on him, but I actually think he has some gas left in the tank and if Carroll can keep him motivated you could have a solid RB2. I love Chris Ivorys game, he always seemed like one of those guys I would hate to have to tackle and it really hurt me to keep passing on him in all these leagues. But lis franc injuries are serious ####. Good luck with that. If he comes back he could be a serviceable RB3 even though the backfield is a little crowded and could get even more so by the end of the draft. I may be in the minority, but I have pretty much written off/given up on Caddy. Always liked him and I know he may still catch enough passes to be relevant but just dont see a ton of upside so I will always pass on him. My love for Blount probably affects that as well. I actually kind of liked your last two picks here. Williams could get back in the mix in WAS and I think DET released Kevin Smith, but I think he still has enough game even with the injury stuff to latch on somewhere. Might be a mistake by DET letting him go. Back to the Caddy thing, if you were going to go that direction with the pick, I maybe would have snagged a Sproles or somebody with maybe a little higher upside. I see some backs on into the 18th round that might have given you a little more juice than Caddy who seems to be riding off into the sunset a little.

3.12 - Steel Dillo - Mike Williams, TB, WR16

5.12 - Steel Dillo - Mike Thomas, JAX, WR28

7.12 - Steel Dillo - Steve Smith, NYG, WR40

10.05 - Steel Dillo - Danny Amendola, STL, WR54

16.05 - Steel Dillo Michael Jenkins, ATL, WR73

17.12 - Steel Dillo - Devin Hester, CHI, WR82

20.05 - Steel Dillo - Brandon Gibson, STL, WR103

21.12 - Steel Dillo - Deon Butler, SEA, WR110

Can somebody let me know what is going on with Smith? Something tells me either everybody is missing the boat right now on this guy or he is a wasted pick. It kind of seems like he is out there in fantasy no mans land right now. Goes from a top flight guy to WR40, but its like nobody can really put their finger on whats going on with him. Seems like he should either go somewhat back to his pre-injury status or be undraftable. This middle ground stuff with him makes me think I know nothing about fantasy (which is possible). Anyway I like the Williams pick, kind of player I would love to have on my team in real football life. Never been a big fan of JAX WRs so hard for me to get excited about Thomas even though he is probably a solid WR and a solid pick. Just seems like other than MSWs run a couple of years ago, it is pedestrian like production out of the JAX passing game. I just dont know if he is a 5th rounder and there were some other ways you could have gone here. Guess my take on Thomas is summed up best this way. I had him on a head to head redraft team last year, all year, and didnt start him once. Not that he didnt on occasion outscore the guys I started instead, but he was just always on that fine line of not good enough to start, but not bad enough to cut. He should be the lead dog this year so his production could increase. Not sure if its 5th round type of increase though. I loved your Amendola pick and that is who I was planning on taking instead of Jacobs right after you. IMO Amendola is really the only WR for STL that I would feel comfortable about drafting as I think he is on the field no matter what. Look at all the other guys and tell me how it is going to shake out. Gibson, Avery, Alexander, Gilyard, Robinson, Clayton, possible rookie, etc. Who knows, and I think Amendola is the safest pick of the bunch. Also like your pick of Jenkins. Decent group here that might be able to give you three serviceable scores each week, maybe not a bunch of huge weeks, but solid weeks.

4.05- Steel Dillo - Rob Gronkowski, NE, TE7

9.12 - Steel Dillo - Todd Heap, BAL, TE21

22.05 - Steel Dillo - Joel Dreessen, HOU, TE42

This isnt bad and could be worse.

12.05 - Steel Dillo - San Francisco 49ers, DST11

13.12 - Steel Dillo - Cincinnati Bengals, DST26

14.05 - Steel Dillo - - Mason Crosby, GB, PK3

18.05 - Steel Dillo - - Rian Lindell, BUF, PK28

Works.

Overall: Not a ton of pop on this team. Lot of lunch pail type guys except for Brady. You could get some steady production that keeps you flying under the radar and barely avoiding elimination type weeks. Id call this the all safe team, not a rookie to be found and none of the picks make you go wow. To me that has to put you in the middle, worried about your RBs but like what Brady does.

1. Jeff Pasquino

2. Razrback77

3. Reaper

4. Football Critic

5. Jeter23

6. Kruppe

7. Eakfootball

8. BSS

9. Steel Dillo

10. Orgazmo

Next up Norse....on deck Stinkin Ref…

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Hey Ref...thanks for doing these. I'm reading every word...

:goodposting:
:goodposting: Although I find my current ranking a little unnerving and a big Kiss o' Death...

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Thought I'd share this note I kept from after Round 8:

After 8 rounds....Interesting to note the team compositions at this point. Given the starters (1-2-3-1) at the skill spots, basically after 8 rounds you have most teams with a full compliment of a starting lineup and one "extra" spot, which might indicate where they think the thin depth of the talent pool is for this year.Scanning over things I find that the most common team breakdown is:2-2-3-1 (extra QB) - seven teamsNext is1-3-3-1 (extra RB) - three teams1-2-3-2 (1)1-3-2-2 (3,14)2-3-2-1 (2,10)2-2-3-1 (4,5,6,9,11,12,16)1-3-3-1 (7,8,15)1-3-4-0 (13)One team doesn't take a TE1 at all. Two others overstack RBs with 3 and wait for WR3, while two more do the same but overstack at QB. Three more just take the extra pick at RB, so 6 teams in all go 3 RBs in first eight picks.

I found it interesting that so many teams would go 2QB first (and I think rightfully so). I think WRs dry up faster, so WRs should be next IMHO with RBBC and TE being so deep. I'd be interested to hear from teams that have 3RBs after 8 Rounds as to why (value? more WRs available later?). In Bloom's case (I think he was one of the 3RB teams early) I think he did a great job grabbing WRs late.

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Hey Ref...thanks for doing these. I'm reading every word...

:goodposting:
:goodposting: Although I find my current ranking a little unnerving and a big Kiss o' Death...
check back in about 30 seconds......

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:2cents:

2.11- Norseman - Philip Rivers, SD, QB6

7.06 - Norseman - Kyle Orton, DEN, QB22

If I could ##### slap one NFL player I would pick Rivers. Whats weird though is I love his game. He just seems to act like a little ##### sometimes. Part of me loves his competitiveness but part of me would love to see him in a cell with Bubba. Solid QB here and a guy who helped me win a couple of leagues last year. Guess well have to agree to disagree on the DEN QB sitaution so theres not much I can say here. Ill have to go back and look and see if you made any comments, but not sure if you drafted Orton thinking he would be traded or if you thought he would be the DEN starter. If he goes to another team it is a great QB2, if he stays obviously I think it is a wasted pick. You were kind of in that spot of the draft and the QB2 picks that has come up quite a bit. You kind of had to draw a line in the sand on all the guys that were left here and decide where you stood on them. I think there were some safer options and I wont say Jason Campbell again, but just sayin. Actually a few other guys that didnt really have a Tebow type threat that could have been safer. I think Orton is due $9 million and that is on only a one year extension and I am just not sure DEN keeps that salary on their books. His trade value is just too high right now in this QB needy market. So kinda hate the pick and love it at the same time, cause I think he goes elsewhere. (which you need to hope so too cause even though I aint factoring bye weeks into these things, I think there is an issue there as well as with a couple of places like TEN and AZ that people thought might be interested in him). Volek would have been a great late round pick here as my gut says he stays in SD and he would have been some injury insurance if nothing else.

1.06 - Norseman - LeSean McCoy, PHI, RB6

5.06 - Norseman - LeGarrette Blount, TB, RB21

10.11 - Norseman - Tashard Choice, DAL, RB46

13.06 - Norseman - Jason Snelling, ATL, RB52

18.11 - Norseman - Thomas Jones, KC, RB69

24.11 - Norseman - Mewelde Moore, PIT?, RB96

Big Blount fan so I like this top 2. Think he passes the eye ball test. But what the hell do I know I was all over Devin Aroshmadu last year in these things for the same reason. But Blount has shown a longer period of production and I think he is undervalued right now. Jury still out on the rest of your guys, but there is potential there to post a score when you may need one. Might have liked to have seen one more body here.

3.06 - Norseman - Wes Welker, NE WR13

4.11- Norseman - Pierre Garcon, IND, WR23

8.11 - Norseman - Malcom Floyd, SD, WR45

14.11 - Norseman - Jabar Gaffney, DEN, WR67

16.11 - Norseman - Donald Driver, GB, WR76

19.06 - Norseman - Blair White, INDY, WR97

21.06 - Norseman - TJ Houshmandzadeh, BAL?, WR107

22.11 - Norseman - Patrick Crayton, SD, WR113

23.06 - Norseman - Dezmon Briscoe, TB, WR117

Big fan of this group as a whole and really liked what you did here. Thought each pick was pretty solid and you grabbed some value when it was available. Thought you crushed the 14-21 picks here. I really wanted White as I think he finds his way on the field no matter what and if one of the 3 guys in front of him gets hurt, he immediately becomes relevant. Manning seems to like him. Collie is coming off of 3 concussions last year so that just has train wreck written all over it, especially with the new concerns about concussions in the league. Im calling White the SOD. I gambled that he would make it back to me and waivered big time between him and Harrison. I lost.

6.11 - Norseman - Aaron Hernandez, NE, TE14

9.06 - Norseman - Heath Miller, PIT, TE20

20.11 - Norseman - David Thomas, NO, TE34

This shouldnt be a weakness and enough to keep you in the mix. Thomas pick could have maybe been another RB body.

11.06 - Norseman - Chicago Bears, DST4

12.11 - Norseman - New Orleans Saints, DST15

15.06 - Norseman - Nick Folk, NYJ, PK12

17.06 - Norseman - Connor Barth, TB, PK26

Top tier groupings here. I like Barth a lot and see him being on many of my teams this fall.

Overall: While I think there may be a couple of top heavy WR groups that boast some better name recognition at the top, as a whole I think you lapped the field at that position. You may need Choice to be relevant and the Orton sitaution needs to work its way out for you. I mentioned earlier about these rankings all being kind of tough because every team has a weakness somewhere, but so far I think this teams weakness have the least probablity of causing the most overall damage. QB2 and RB appear the only areas of concern but you may have it covered okay when all is said and done. Nice job.

1. Norseman

2. Jeff Pasquino

3. Razrback77

4. Reaper

5. Football Critic

6. Jeter23

7. Kruppe

8. Eakfootball

9. BSS

10. Steel Dillo

11. Orgazmo

Next up Stinkin Ref....on deck GIM…

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Regarding Jeff's question on depth of positions. I was the 1-2-3-2 team, but added my second QB at 9.1. I agree with those that took the second QB rather early, as I guess you are saying before the end of round 8 because the known starters were definitely limited. It seems as though almost every team review by the Stinkin Ref questions that team's QB 2 because there just weren't many certified starters in the QB 24 on down range.

I personally agree with you that the solid WRs were more limited than the RBs because I believe Bloom when he says the number of talented rookie RBs that will see the field is much greater than the number of rookie WRs. The rookie WRs could also be affected by the lack of time with the playbook and the number of repititions possible this summer if practice schedules are limited. I waited late on RBs after ADP because I thought that some of the rookies offered potential and would be available later. I got D. Murray at 17.1 and Shane Vereen at 21.1 and also drafted Hardesty, sort of a rookie at 15.1. I expect all three to see the field and if one of them lands a starter role that will really impact my squad. I also took this approach as there have been several huge RB scorers that were not drafted in previous years and I hope that one of my three will be one of those "overlooked in the off-season" type RBs.

My extra starter selection in the top eight rounds was at TE, not because I thought that position would be limited later, but because I thought Gonzo was terrific value at the bottom of the sixth round.

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Have broken down my draft enough in here, but quick recap to try and find my spot.

:2cents:

1.11 - Aaron Rodgers, GB, QB2

6.06 - Tim Tebow, DEN, QB19

I think Tebow starts and after Bass I think you have a pretty explosive group. You should have considered Flynn late. Oh wait you did, but just too late.

3.11 - Peyton Hillis, CLE, RB14

4.06- Jahvid Best, DET, RB16

9.11 - Danny Woodhead, NE, RB42

10.06 - Brandon Jacobs, NYG, RB44

18.06 - Jerome Harrison, PHI?, RB67

20.06 - LeRon McClain, BAL, RB79

24.06 - Derrick Ward, HOU, RB93

Personally I think you killed it here. I heard Ubaldo Jimenez on the radio the other day talking about his diet and what he recommends when people go through a buffet line. He simply said "avoid the rice....but crush the beans". Well I think you crushed the beans here my man. Hillis and Best may be the two most undervalued backs in these things right now. Best as the 6th pick in the 4th round of a 16 teamer? He is way undervalued and my pick to be the guy that sees the biggest increase between now and drafts like these in Aug-Sept. (which doesn’t really make sense cause there really aren’t any) Woodhead/Jacobs in the 9-10 is pretty strong. Particularly like Woodhead to have some decent scoring weeks. Last 3 have some pop.

2.06- Hakeem Nicks, NYG, WR5

7.11 - Terrell Owens, CIN?, WR39

8.06 - Jordy Nelson, GB, WR44

11.11 - Jordan Shipley, CIN, WR62

17.11 - Jason Avant, PHI, WR81

19.11 - Brandon LaFell, CAR, WR100

21.11 - Josh Cribbs, CLE, WR109

22.06 - Damian Williams, TEN, WR112

23.11 - Kevin Ogletree, DAL, WR121

Might be enough here to get you three scores and keep you afloat, however I think this group suffered from you dominating the RB position.

5.11 - Jimmy Graham, NO, TE10

15.11 - Jacob Tamme, IND, TE30

This is kind of like the team that has Kolb as their backup QB and hopes that he gets traded. If Clark goes down again this pairing raises 10 slots in the TE only rankings. I know there is hype for Graham right now but how do 9 TE’s go before him? Being able to add him to your first 4 picks was like stealing fish from a baby in a barrel or something like that.

14.06 - Matt Bryant, ATL, PK4

16.06 - Matt Prater, DEN, PK19

12.06 - Detroit Lions, DST12

13.11 - Washington Redskins, DST25

Possibly about as close to "who really gives a ####" that you can get.

Overall: Personally I really like what you did here and not sure I could have done it better myself. Not really sure where to rank you other than I know it will be above Football Critic. Nice job.

1. Norseman

2. Jeff Pasquino

3. Razrback77

4. Reaper

5. Stinkin Ref

6. Football Critic

7. Jeter23

8. Kruppe

9. Eakfootball

10. BSS

11. Steel Dillo

12. Orgazmo

Next up GIM....on deck …Bloom…

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:2cents:

3.07 - GetintheMix - Matt Schaub, HOU, QB9

9.07 - GetintheMix - Matt Hasselbeck, SEA, QB27

20.10 - Getinthemix - Alex Smith, SF, QB38

Schaub is a solid anchor. Instead of Hass I might have went with the guy that was taken right after Hass. Guess who that is? JK. Nothing to see here really couple shaky backups but that par for the course here. There are worse options and if both Smith and Hass start you got a decent shot at getting a good score here each week.

4.10- Getinthemix - Ryan Mathews, SD, RB18

5.07 - GetintheMix - Felix Jones, DAL, RB22

8.10 - Getinthemix - Ronnie Brown, MIA?, RB36

18.10 - Getinthemix - Jacquizz Rodgers, ROOKIE, RB68

21.07 - GetintheMix - Danny Ware, NYG, RB84

WR/WR/QB with the first three picks will look like this. I liked your Rodgers pick late. Are we still waiting for Felix to become “the man”? Is it Tuesday? Yep we are. Brown could end up saving this group. Maybe could have used another body or two here. I like Matthews to have a better year this year and Tolbert’s impact to decrease.

1.07 - GetintheMix - Andre Johnson, HOU, WR1

2.10- Getinthemix - Miles Austin, DAL, WR6

7.07 - GetintheMix - Chad Ochocinco, CIN, WR36

10.10 - Getinthemix - Mark Clayton, STL, WR55

16.10 - Getinthemix - Kevin Walter, HOU, WR75

17.07 - GetintheMix - Golden Tate, SEA, WR79

19.07 - GetintheMix - Torrey Smith, ROOKIE, WR98

23.07 - GetintheMix - Jerrel Jernigan, ROOKIE, WR118

24.10 - Getinthemix - Antonio Brown, PIT, WR126

Pretty strong as it should be. 85 is a wild card and man if Clayton looks like what he did before he got hurt you could be set. Thought Walter was a strong pick 2/3rds of the way through, people want to write him off but there he is lining up opposite AJ and there aren’t many better WR2 spots to be in. Even as a WR3 on that team with AJ is a good place to be. AJ is beast and like a WR and a half by himself. Houston’s bye week might be tough for you (Schaub, etc) but you should be ok here. One of the late flyers maybe could have been a RB flyer instead.

6.10 - Getinthemix - Jermaine Gresham, CIN, TE13

11.07 - GetintheMix - Jeremy Shockey, CAR, TE26

13.07 - GetintheMix - John Carlson, SEA, TE27

Doesn’t knock your socks off but should definitely let you post a number. I like the move to CAR for Shockey.

14.10 - Getinthemix - Sebastian Janikowski, OAK, PK6

15.07 - GetintheMix - Josh Brown, STL, PK13

22.10 - Getinthemix - Jeff Reed, PIT, PK31

12.10 - Getinthemix - Minnesota Vikings, DST14

3 PK/1 DST guy…right on…I’m feeling it. Sucks to only have one option at DST each week but dems the breaks when you sign up to play with some wise guys.

Overall: Need Brown to find a productive home and Felix to get the memo about him being a stud.

1. Norseman

2. Jeff Pasquino

3. Razrback77

4. Reaper

5. Stinkin Ref

6. Football Critic

7. Jeter23

8. Kruppe

9. Eakfootball

10. BSS

11. Orgazmo

12. Getinthemix

13. Steel Dillo

After further review….slight change at the bottom involving Orgazmo and Steel Dillo with GIM stuffed in…

Next up Bloom....on deck …Andy…

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:popcorn:

Curious to see how bad 3 Ds and 3 Ks will hurt me in the Ref rankings. Ref seems to be valuing depth and has suggested that some teams with 6 RBs or 8 WRs rostered should have considered adding another. I come from the school that if you have top end talent and decent backups it's best to use the ammo where you think you can impact your weekly score.

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Have broken down my draft enough in here, but quick recap to try and find my spot. :2cents: 1.11 - Aaron Rodgers, GB, QB26.06 - Tim Tebow, DEN, QB19I think Tebow starts and after Bass I think you have a pretty explosive group. You should have considered Flynn late. Oh wait you did, but just too late. 3.11 - Peyton Hillis, CLE, RB144.06- Jahvid Best, DET, RB169.11 - Danny Woodhead, NE, RB4210.06 - Brandon Jacobs, NYG, RB4418.06 - Jerome Harrison, PHI?, RB6720.06 - LeRon McClain, BAL, RB7924.06 - Derrick Ward, HOU, RB93Personally I think you killed it here. I heard Ubaldo Jimenez on the radio the other day talking about his diet and what he recommends when people go through a buffet line. He simply said "avoid the rice....but crush the beans". Well I think you crushed the beans here my man. Hillis and Best may be the two most undervalued backs in these things right now. Best as the 6th pick in the 4th round of a 16 teamer? He is way undervalued and my pick to be the guy that sees the biggest increase between now and drafts like these in Aug-Sept. (which doesn’t really make sense cause there really aren’t any) Woodhead/Jacobs in the 9-10 is pretty strong. Particularly like Woodhead to have some decent scoring weeks. Last 3 have some pop.2.06- Hakeem Nicks, NYG, WR57.11 - Terrell Owens, CIN?, WR398.06 - Jordy Nelson, GB, WR4411.11 - Jordan Shipley, CIN, WR6217.11 - Jason Avant, PHI, WR8119.11 - Brandon LaFell, CAR, WR10021.11 - Josh Cribbs, CLE, WR10922.06 - Damian Williams, TEN, WR11223.11 - Kevin Ogletree, DAL, WR121Might be enough here to get you three scores and keep you afloat, however I think this group suffered from you dominating the RB position. 5.11 - Jimmy Graham, NO, TE1015.11 - Jacob Tamme, IND, TE30This is kind of like the team that has Kolb as their backup QB and hopes that he gets traded. If Clark goes down again this pairing raises 10 slots in the TE only rankings. I know there is hype for Graham right now but how do 9 TE’s go before him? Being able to add him to your first 4 picks was like stealing fish from a baby in a barrel or something like that.14.06 - Matt Bryant, ATL, PK4 16.06 - Matt Prater, DEN, PK1912.06 - Detroit Lions, DST1213.11 - Washington Redskins, DST25Possibly about as close to "who really gives a ####" that you can get. Overall: Personally I really like what you did here and not sure I could have done it better myself. Not really sure where to rank you other than I know it will be above Football Critic. Nice job. 1. Norseman2. Jeff Pasquino3. Razrback774. Reaper5. Stinkin Ref 6. Football Critic7. Jeter238. Kruppe9. Eakfootball10. BSS11. Steel Dillo12. OrgazmoNext up GIM....on deck …Bloom…

Like what you did at QB. Once you have a stud in tow there are two routes to go. 1) Sluff QB2 and hope for bye week filler. Not a huge issue as 1 QB teams have won these leagues. 2) Go for a gimmick QB or someone with huge weekly variance that might be able to post a few scores over your QB1. I think Tebow fits the bill. I like him better than a Sanchez or Fitzpatrick pick (for this team) since Rodgers will dwarf those guys most every week. At RB Harrison followed by Jacobs are my favorite picks. Harrison could be a difference maker. Hillis was huge value based on other drafts and last years stats. Call me a racist, but I'm not sold on the skills and didn't like the drop off at the end of the year. The only bad pick I see is McClain. I like the guy, but don't see him ever outscoring the other guys on your roster.Absolutely crushed the WR position. If Owens pans out you have great production from your starters. The rest of the corps will be like a machine gun spraying bullets. Great approach if Owens doesn't work out.Big fan of Tamme late. The Graham train is rolling, but you still have a ton of mouths to feed in NO. Colsten disappears at times and it's not due to a lack of talent. I think you have to hit or miss guys that may leave you empty some weeks and crush it at the same time.K/D, you got two of each. You won't lose much ground to most of the field here.Overall I think you're set to make it to the halfway pole and have a better chance than most to make it to the final four. I don't see any major holes that will make you an easy out early and you definately have the studs to carry you to title contention.

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:popcorn: Curious to see how bad 3 Ds and 3 Ks will hurt me in the Ref rankings. Ref seems to be valuing depth and has suggested that some teams with 6 RBs or 8 WRs rostered should have considered adding another. I come from the school that if you have top end talent and decent backups it's best to use the ammo where you think you can impact your weekly score.

it will probably serve you pretty well as I think it is a solid strategy especially with the 4 extra slots....when I heard these were moving toward 24 slots, it was the first thought that came to mind....probably dst more than pk....however I just could not get myself to pull the trigger when the time came....and quite honestly since that time I have thought should the situation present itself again (24 slots) that I would consider jumping on a dst very early....maybe as high as round 8 or something....then seeing if the herd follows.....if so, no big deal, the run just happens sooner....but if the herd does not follow, then a couple things can happen....one being it might be easier to get the 3rd when you need to....or you fall back to the 2 dst strategy and gobble up some value at other positions while the herd finishes the run.....now how does that weigh out as far as value goes and the position player that you pass up in round 8...I don't know....but really I think the 3 dst thing will almost start to become the "in" thing to do in these leagues with 24 slots....even creeping more into the 20 slot leagues as well....dst just don't get injured....I got caught trying to be cute in Gamma's league and got stuck with one.....valued Amendola over a dst and thought my second one would make it back to me.....no dice...the only part about what you said that makes it tough is that in these 16 team leagues it is pretty difficult to acquire top end talent all the time and your draft slot could have something to do with your ability to try the 3 dst strategy compared to top end talent....haven't really thought about the PK too much becuase I would think on the norm you are usually looking at about the same points except for one of those weeks were your guy goes off for 5 FG type games....I think somebody took a look at that and how your chances increase for an above average score...the keep away aspect of the 3 dst or even 4 for that matter might be a big part of the benefit as obviously not only are you increasing your chances of a good score but you are decreasing the chances for others which comes into play big time when you talk about "surviving".....

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:popcorn: Curious to see how bad 3 Ds and 3 Ks will hurt me in the Ref rankings. Ref seems to be valuing depth and has suggested that some teams with 6 RBs or 8 WRs rostered should have considered adding another. I come from the school that if you have top end talent and decent backups it's best to use the ammo where you think you can impact your weekly score.

it will probably serve you pretty well as I think it is a solid strategy especially with the 4 extra slots....when I heard these were moving toward 24 slots, it was the first thought that came to mind....probably dst more than pk....however I just could not get myself to pull the trigger when the time came....and quite honestly since that time I have thought should the situation present itself again (24 slots) that I would consider jumping on a dst very early....maybe as high as round 8 or something....then seeing if the herd follows.....if so, no big deal, the run just happens sooner....but if the herd does not follow, then a couple things can happen....one being it might be easier to get the 3rd when you need to....or you fall back to the 2 dst strategy and gobble up some value at other positions while the herd finishes the run.....now how does that weigh out as far as value goes and the position player that you pass up in round 8...I don't know....but really I think the 3 dst thing will almost start to become the "in" thing to do in these leagues with 24 slots....even creeping more into the 20 slot leagues as well....dst just don't get injured....I got caught trying to be cute in Gamma's league and got stuck with one.....valued Amendola over a dst and thought my second one would make it back to me.....no dice...the only part about what you said that makes it tough is that in these 16 team leagues it is pretty difficult to acquire top end talent all the time and your draft slot could have something to do with your ability to try the 3 dst strategy compared to top end talent....haven't really thought about the PK too much becuase I would think on the norm you are usually looking at about the same points except for one of those weeks were your guy goes off for 5 FG type games....I think somebody took a look at that and how your chances increase for an above average score...the keep away aspect of the 3 dst or even 4 for that matter might be a big part of the benefit as obviously not only are you increasing your chances of a good score but you are decreasing the chances for others which comes into play big time when you talk about "surviving".....
I enjoy your commentary in these PDSL's Stinken Ref. I hope if you have the time to see what you have to say about my team in Gamma draft. :popcorn:

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:popcorn: Curious to see how bad 3 Ds and 3 Ks will hurt me in the Ref rankings. Ref seems to be valuing depth and has suggested that some teams with 6 RBs or 8 WRs rostered should have considered adding another. I come from the school that if you have top end talent and decent backups it's best to use the ammo where you think you can impact your weekly score.

it will probably serve you pretty well as I think it is a solid strategy especially with the 4 extra slots....when I heard these were moving toward 24 slots, it was the first thought that came to mind....probably dst more than pk....however I just could not get myself to pull the trigger when the time came....and quite honestly since that time I have thought should the situation present itself again (24 slots) that I would consider jumping on a dst very early....maybe as high as round 8 or something....then seeing if the herd follows.....if so, no big deal, the run just happens sooner....but if the herd does not follow, then a couple things can happen....one being it might be easier to get the 3rd when you need to....or you fall back to the 2 dst strategy and gobble up some value at other positions while the herd finishes the run.....now how does that weigh out as far as value goes and the position player that you pass up in round 8...I don't know....but really I think the 3 dst thing will almost start to become the "in" thing to do in these leagues with 24 slots....even creeping more into the 20 slot leagues as well....dst just don't get injured....I got caught trying to be cute in Gamma's league and got stuck with one.....valued Amendola over a dst and thought my second one would make it back to me.....no dice...the only part about what you said that makes it tough is that in these 16 team leagues it is pretty difficult to acquire top end talent all the time and your draft slot could have something to do with your ability to try the 3 dst strategy compared to top end talent....haven't really thought about the PK too much becuase I would think on the norm you are usually looking at about the same points except for one of those weeks were your guy goes off for 5 FG type games....I think somebody took a look at that and how your chances increase for an above average score...the keep away aspect of the 3 dst or even 4 for that matter might be a big part of the benefit as obviously not only are you increasing your chances of a good score but you are decreasing the chances for others which comes into play big time when you talk about "surviving".....
I enjoy your commentary in these PDSL's Stinken Ref. I hope if you have the time to see what you have to say about my team in Gamma draft. :popcorn:
you bet...hope to finish up the final 3 here tomorrow morning and then maybe tackle Gamma...will hit you up first.... :boxing:

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:popcorn: Curious to see how bad 3 Ds and 3 Ks will hurt me in the Ref rankings. Ref seems to be valuing depth and has suggested that some teams with 6 RBs or 8 WRs rostered should have considered adding another. I come from the school that if you have top end talent and decent backups it's best to use the ammo where you think you can impact your weekly score.

it will probably serve you pretty well as I think it is a solid strategy especially with the 4 extra slots....when I heard these were moving toward 24 slots, it was the first thought that came to mind....probably dst more than pk....however I just could not get myself to pull the trigger when the time came....and quite honestly since that time I have thought should the situation present itself again (24 slots) that I would consider jumping on a dst very early....maybe as high as round 8 or something....then seeing if the herd follows.....if so, no big deal, the run just happens sooner....but if the herd does not follow, then a couple things can happen....one being it might be easier to get the 3rd when you need to....or you fall back to the 2 dst strategy and gobble up some value at other positions while the herd finishes the run.....now how does that weigh out as far as value goes and the position player that you pass up in round 8...I don't know....but really I think the 3 dst thing will almost start to become the "in" thing to do in these leagues with 24 slots....even creeping more into the 20 slot leagues as well....dst just don't get injured....I got caught trying to be cute in Gamma's league and got stuck with one.....valued Amendola over a dst and thought my second one would make it back to me.....no dice...the only part about what you said that makes it tough is that in these 16 team leagues it is pretty difficult to acquire top end talent all the time and your draft slot could have something to do with your ability to try the 3 dst strategy compared to top end talent....haven't really thought about the PK too much becuase I would think on the norm you are usually looking at about the same points except for one of those weeks were your guy goes off for 5 FG type games....I think somebody took a look at that and how your chances increase for an above average score...the keep away aspect of the 3 dst or even 4 for that matter might be a big part of the benefit as obviously not only are you increasing your chances of a good score but you are decreasing the chances for others which comes into play big time when you talk about "surviving".....
I enjoy your commentary in these PDSL's Stinken Ref. I hope if you have the time to see what you have to say about my team in Gamma draft. :popcorn:
you bet...hope to finish up the final 3 here tomorrow morning and then maybe tackle Gamma...will hit you up first.... :boxing:
I have your favorite backup QB on my team, Jason Campbell. Championship!!! :football:

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Love the feedback Ref... even though you've got me sucking hind ###.

I always draft boring & safe in these things.

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:2cents:

4.07- Sigmund Bloom - Matt Ryan, ATL, QB11

7.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Donovan McNabb, WASH?, QB23

19.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Shaun Hill, DET, QB35

Ryan may not put up the monster type games each week that help you advance like one of the top guys, but he is a very solid QB and a great competitor. McNabb should start somewhere and a good chance that you may use his scores as often as Ryan’s depending on where he goes. I thought McNabb would have been a great pick for some other teams as there QB2 so thought you made a solid selection here. No real feel for the Hill selection one way or the other, I don’t go into these thinking about injuries really unless I am looking at backing up my own guys.

1.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Maurice Jones Drew, JAX, RB7

6.07 - Sigmund Bloom - Mark Ingram, ROOKIE, RB26

8.07 - Sigmund Bloom - CJ Spiller, BUF, RB33

10.07 - Sigmund Bloom - Mike Tolbert, SD, RB45

16.07 - Sigmund Bloom - Darren Sproles, SD, RB60

24.07 - Sigmund Bloom - Da'Rel Scott, ROOKIE, RB94

First glance here and not sure what to think. Obviously there is some concern about the top two guys and their knees. Probably part of the reason you were able to get both of them. Had you not taken MJD I probably would have been forced too and I wouldn’t have wanted to. But that’s just me. I see JAX limiting his workload a little as they have some capable backups and guys that I have been targeting late in some of these. I know MJD says all the right things and what not, but we have to admit that at this point he is probably one of if not the riskiest picks in the first round. Personally I think if he is selected in a format like this, that targeting Jennings is a must. MJD is great value where you were able to get him but the pick seems to require a handcuff even if you have to pull the trigger on that handcuff earlier than you want. Which in turn decreases his value a little. If he goes down your team may be in trouble, but had you had Jennings or whoever you think the primary back up would be, you might be ok. Looked back and it looks like you pretty much had to take Ingram where you did as well. Hopefully the knee stuff with him is not a huge issue and he might be in line for a monster year depending on where he goes. Personally I think Spiller is a little overrated and the situation he is in kind of sucks. Matthews should be more of a primary limiting Tolbert, but who knows. Sproles good late flyer, think he had over 50 rec last year and could go somewhere that gives him even more touches. Not a big fan of this group as if one of the top two go down or both, you may struggle for a score.

3.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Marques Colston, NO, WR15

5.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Percy Harvin, MIN, WR27

9.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Arrelious Benn, TB, WR49

11.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Earl Bennett, CHI, WR61

12.07 - Sigmund Bloom - Donnie Avery, STL, WR64

15.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Derrick Mason, BAL, WR70

18.07 - Sigmund Bloom - Andre Caldwell, CIN, WR89

23.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Adrian Arrington, NO, WR120

Have seen some comments pimping your selections here and I can see that. Colston is a good start. Percy Harvin is one of the few guys on my “do not draft list”. I know we aren’t supposed to have those because at some point every player has value, yada, yada, yada. I have only had one migraine in my life when I was like 15, but I remember how it felt, so I feel for the guy big time. I don’t question toughness, anything. He is solely on my list because I don’t like the unknown. In this format I think he represents risk simply because even missing one week out of nowhere can cost you. And let’s be honest the odds of him missing at least one game because of migraines are pretty high. But Harvin could really produce and you definitely have enough depth to cover him. Benn is coming off injury and seems an iffy WR3 right now, but the rest of your picks should be able to put together some scores for you. Your next 4 picks were very solid and why I think you deserve the pimping. Even with some questions about some of the others (Avery injury/Mason age-role/Caldwell QB/etc) This is one of the best groups in the league and will help cover anything you may lose at RB.

2.07- Sigmund Bloom - Antonio Gates, SD, TE1

20.07 - Sigmund Bloom - Tony Scheffler, DET, TE32

21.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Evan Moore, CLE, TE38

Top TE in league that can carry you for weeks at a time. The Scheffler and Moore picks are nice picks late. I like Scheffler to have a better year this year even with Petti getting most of the looks.

13.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Indianapolis Colts, DST24

14.07 - Sigmund Bloom - Cleveland Browns, DST31

17.10 - Sigmund Bloom - Olindo Mare, SEA, PK27

22.07 - Sigmund Bloom - Graham Gano, WASH, PK30

Good work here getting what you need late.

Overall: Very nice job. RB could be an issue. WR/TE should cover that as long as Gates stays healthy and a McNabb rebirth could be huge in case ATL has one of those games where they don’t need Ryan to chuck it. I look at the Spiller pick and wonder how this team would have looked with say a Torain or a M. Bush. Guess I’m not sold on Spiller and he seems to be a Felix Jones type guy that we all think has this great ability, yet we may keep waiting and waiting and waiting for him to take the next step.

Took any extra minute or so to review the rankings before sliding Bloom in and doing the final two...shameless bump up of myself, :bag: but just not sure I was giving enough credit....sometimes we are harder on ourselves than we should be.....I know we all like our teams, but looking back....if that wasn’t my team I probably would have ranked it higher initially.....blast away

1. Norseman

2. Stinkin Ref

3. Jeff Pasquino

4. Sigmund Bloom

5. Razrback77

6. Reaper

7. Football Critic

8. Jeter23

9. Kruppe

10. Eakfootball

11. BSS

12. Orgazmo

13. Getinthemix

14. Steel Dillo

Next up Andy....on deck …Bass…

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You make me feel better about my QB, appreciate that. I feel just fine about my RB - even if Ingram's knee is an issue, it's a long-term thing, not this year. I hear you on Spiller being a bit overrated, that was a bit of a shoulder shrug pick, strictly looking at best case scenario. I'm just not a Torain believer (and multiple missed games are inevitable) - MBush I see almost exactly the same as Tolbert, but in lesser offense and would have required earlier pick. Would have definitely targeted Jennings if I hadnt gotten Ingram, Spiller, and Tolbert. Still, even with MJD playing through the knee last year, wasn't an issue that caused him to miss games until late in the season. I feel like I can tolerate the risk of Colston/Harvin because of my depth, hope it ends up being as good/deep a group as you see it - Moore could also contribute if he is reclassified. Thanks for putting in the time to review these.

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:2cents:

5.08 - Andy Dufresne - Matt Cassel, KC, QB15

9.08 - Andy Dufresne - Jason Campbell, OAK, QB28

10.09 - Andy Dufrense - Cam Newton, ROOKIE, QB30

24.09 - Andy Dufrense - Joe Webb, MIN, QB45

I may be one of the biggest Chiefs fans on this board but I am not a huge Cassel fan. Chiefs had arguably the easiest schedule in the NFL last year and I think Cassel and his final numbers may have been the biggest benefactor of that. Things change next year. Was really surprised to see you take him in front of some other QB’s on the board. But that’s cool. The good thing is what you did by grabbing two more QB’s in your next 5 picks. I may be making too much out of Grad being a free agent and all indications are of him not returning and Campbell being entrenched as the starter, but I thought that was a solid pick in the 9th and as QB28. Following up with another potential starter in Newton was solid as well and Newton and Campbell may outscore Cassel often. Between the 3 of them this may actually work even though you had to do it in the first 10 picks. Personally I would have liked Stafford/Campbell or Cutler/Campbell better with Newton. Could be a nice Webb flyer if they don’t do something.

2.09- Andy Dufrense - Matt Forte, CHI, RB13

6.09 - Andy Dufrense - Fred Jackson, BUF, RB27

8.09 - Andy Dufrense - Pierre Thomas, NO, RB35

17.08 - Andy Dufresne - Daniel Thomas, ROOKIE, RB64

19.08 - Andy Dufresne - Roy Helu, ROOKIE, RB73

22.09 - Andy Dufrense - Javarris James, INDY, RB91

Got a group of lunch pail guys there with the top 3 but they have game. Forte is 5th in the league in yards from scrimmage in the past 3 years and has not missed a game. I would not have guessed that. Jackson seemed to be the right pick when you made it and if Thomas is all the way back he could be a nice pick in 8th, especially if Ivory struggles coming back. Couple of decent rookies late that could pan out, especially Thomas and James could get some love if Adaii leaves. Not a wow type of group here by any means and you might need a rook to step up.

1.08 - Andy Dufresne - Calvin Johnson, DET, WR2

4.09- Andy Dufrense - Kenny Britt, TEN, WR22

7.08 - Andy Dufresne - Jacoby Ford, OAK, WR37

11.08 - Andy Dufresne - Anthony Armstrong, WAS, WR60

12.09 - Andy Dufrense - Danario Alexander, STL, WR65

16.09 - Andy Dufrense - Brandon Tate, NE, WR74

18.09 - Andy Dufrense - Randall Cobb, ROOKIE, WR91

21.08 - Andy Dufresne - Greg Camarillo, MIN, WR108

I was hoping CJ would fall to me in the first. Not a big fan of what you did with your next two picks here. A lot of that has to do with I think Britt is way overrated. I could really care less about his recent legal trouble. A third of his TD’s and almost a third of his yards came in one game last year. If you were going WR with this pick, I think you may regret not taking Boldin instead. Also a little shaky on the Ford pick, I know there is some hype there but I’m not sold yet. But that is the key sometimes, being sold before everyone else is. Looking back I thought you had some other options there as well. Armstrong/Alexander could actually be guys that score for you here each week. And I thought the Cobb pick was solid as I think he makes an impact quickly.

3.08 - Andy Dufresne - Vernon Davis, SF, TE5

13.08 - Andy Dufresne - Kevin Boss, NYG, TE28

20.09 - Andy Dufrense - Fred Davis, WASH, TE33

I love me some Vernon Davis and it would have been hard for me to pass on him had he gotten to me in the third (but I probably would have). Hard to argue with the 4 TE’s taken in front of him, but we also wouldn’t be real surprised to see him outscore a few. The workout warrior kind of turned the page with Singletary at the helm, but something tells me he and Harbaugh will be just fine too. Decent set of back ups here that could help on occasion.

14.09 - Andy Dufrense - Buffalo Bills, DST32

15.08 - Andy Dufresne - Dan Carpenter, MIA, PK14

23.08 - Andy Dufresne - Jason Hanson, DET, PK32

Ouch…

Overall: When I first took a look at this team, I hated it. Mostly because of Cassel, not ever really being a Forte guy, Jackson is a Bill, Thomas off an injury, Britt is overrated, Ford overhyped, and you took a serious kick in the nuts at DST and PK. After further review, I think your QB combo could ham and egg it, your RB’s will show up for work, and you have Calvin Johnson and Vernon Davis. Could be worse, but dang I think it could have been better with Stafford or Cutler instead of Cassel, and different WR2 (Boldin) and WR3 (some options), and another DST to chose from, which all really could have happened.

Jeter23 is the latest to receive a bump upon further review….and Critic swaps with Reaper

1. Norseman

2. Stinkin Ref

3. Jeff Pasquino

4. Sigmund Bloom

5. Razrback77

6. Jeter23

7. Football Critic

8. Reaper

9. Kruppe

10. Andy Dufresne

11. Eakfootball

12. BSS

13. Orgazmo

14. Getinthemix

15. Steel Dillo

Next up.…Bass…

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You make me feel better about my QB, appreciate that. I feel just fine about my RB - even if Ingram's knee is an issue, it's a long-term thing, not this year. I hear you on Spiller being a bit overrated, that was a bit of a shoulder shrug pick, strictly looking at best case scenario. I'm just not a Torain believer (and multiple missed games are inevitable) - MBush I see almost exactly the same as Tolbert, but in lesser offense and would have required earlier pick. Would have definitely targeted Jennings if I hadnt gotten Ingram, Spiller, and Tolbert. Still, even with MJD playing through the knee last year, wasn't an issue that caused him to miss games until late in the season. I feel like I can tolerate the risk of Colston/Harvin because of my depth, hope it ends up being as good/deep a group as you see it - Moore could also contribute if he is reclassified. Thanks for putting in the time to review these.

got a feeling MJD may turn into one of those doesn't pratcice all week but plays on Sunday guys...my Torain love is just that he looks like the real deal (when he is playing)....Shanny saw something in that kid a long time ago when he was in DEN....my Michael Bush comments are basically under the assumption that he is playing elsewhere next year and has more of a primary role....I see there being a need for his services around the league and I think he would like to be "the man"...although I think OAK would be crazy to let him walk...

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Jeter23 is the latest to receive a bump upon further review….and Critic swaps with Reaper

1. Norseman

2. Stinkin Ref

3. Jeff Pasquino

4. Sigmund Bloom

5. Razrback77

6. Jeter23

7. Football Critic

8. Reaper

9. Kruppe

10. Andy Dufresne

11. Eakfootball

12. BSS

13. Orgazmo

14. Getinthemix

15. Steel Dillo

Next up.…Bass…

:rant:

Funny.. I was just about to re-post my top 8 which would have probably matched yours until you bumped Jeter.... Jeter's team scares me at RB2 but, if Torain is the man, then so be it.. Even still I see a weak RB2 spot and not much pop at RB depth after that to cover Byes or injury.

At 1st glance his TE's seem to leave a lot to be desired and you figure he felt the same way since he kept firing at TE's but, if you go by last years numbers Marcedes and Watson were a great combo, not on great offenses though so, he should be "ok".

I also went back and started liking BSS's team a little more than I did at 1st...

But, these were my original 8 posted right after the draft....

I like these teams in the top half:

Bloom - Risky at QB until Mcnabb signs. Decent depth everywhere else.

BassnBrew - Nice team but, if M Bush is a backup and R Bush doesn't put up a little more than he has, the RB core can fall apart quickly.

Pasquino - I like the Manning / Stafford combo of a safe QB and an explosive QB. RB is troubling, I get the minimal RB theory but, you need IMO 4 decent RB's to pull it off. Here I see 1 sure starter and a lot of hope that Ryan Williams is drafted right.

Football Critic - Also a little weak IMO at RB - 3 decent RB's and then I'm not so sure.

Reaper - Meh at QB. Rock solid at RB and weak yet deep at WR. Top TE.

Norseman - Weak at RB. Solid everywhere else.

Stinkinref - Needs some breaks like Owens being a top 20 WR.

Rzrback - Another team a little light at RB. If a rookie RB pops and / or LT keeps it up this team is solid...

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they ain't final yet baby....and I am still trout looking BSS team... :unsure:

is your list in order for how you would rank the top 8..?

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Mine wasn't in order.. But, I'm reading through your's and Blooms reviews and trying to come up with one... It's tough - the uncertainty is killing.

Norseman seems to be a concensus top team especially if Blount turns into a top back.

IMO that's the real fun and meat of these reviews moving forward - Spotlighting the players who have mixed reviews or question marks but are potential difference makers... TO me:

Blount

Hillis

Ryan Mathews

j Stewart

Deangelo Williams

Sidney Rice

P Harvin

Ryan Grant / James Starks

Ocho / Owens / R Moss

Etc etc.

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:2cents:

1.09 - BassnBrew - Michael Vick, PHI, QB1

5.09 - BassnBrew - Jay Cutler, CHI, QB16

Top duo in the league. Not much else to say. If Andy would have taken Cutler I am interested to know what you would have done. Part of me thinks you may have still gone QB2 sensing the impending drop off and that there were probably a couple guys who were going to get QB2 before it got back to you. I’m guessing Stafford. Nice job here.

4.08- BassNBrew - DeAngelo Williams, CAR, RB17

8.08 - BassNBrew - Reggie Bush, NO, RB34

9.09 - BassnBrew - Michael Bush, OAK, RB41

15.09 - BassNBrew - Mike Goodson, CAR, RB58

20.08 - BassNBrew - Leon Washington, SEA, RB80

24.08 - BassNBrew - Mike Bell, CLE, RB95

You’ve declared your belief that Dwilly is a steal where you got him and he may very well be. Who knows what happens there though. If things stay the same, it doesn’t seem like as much of a steal. If he goes to NE or something we may be playing for second place. I see 3 pretty solid backs in CAR and you would think there really shouldn’t be room for all 3. Since they can’t really trade guys right now who knows what will happen. Dwilly may stay and Stew may be gone. Maybe they draft Newton and Rivera thinks, hey you know what, whether it’s Clausen or Newton, I better lean on the running game so I keep em all. Think Bush has to get those 70+ receptions to justify RB2 status but it looks like he will be back on NO. I like M. Bush game and think he is a steal in the 9th if he signs elsewhere and will drastically out produce RB41. He becomes top 15 or so in my mind if he becomes the main guy, dude is a load to tackle. I really like Goodson’s game and the way he runs, he was on my radar. Leon burned me a bunch last year and for some reason we all think he should get more touches out of the backfield, but the people getting paid the big bucks don’t. Some question marks in this group and may need some things to change/fall right.

3.09 - BassnBrew - Brandon Marshall, MIA, WR14

6.08 - BassNBrew - Austin Collie, IND, WR31

7.09 - BassnBrew - Santana Moss, WASH, WR38

10.08 - BassNBrew - Jerome Simpson, CIN, WR53

17.09 - BassnBrew - Roy Williams, DAL, WR80

18.08 - BassNBrew - Plaxico Burress, JAIL, WR90

19.09 - BassnBrew - David Gettis, CAR, WR99

23.09 - BassnBrew - Armanti Edwards, CAR, WR119

Marshall is a good get at 3.09. He should be fine. Three concussions in one year and the NFL treating them the way they do makes the Collie pick tough. Get that many it just seems like it is easier and just a matter of time in this sport before you get another, and nowadays that could mean more than just missing the rest of that game. The third WR in Indy often has more value than many teams WR2’s but there are some mouths to feed as well and White has shown he can play. Hopefully Simpson isn’t this years Aromashodu, but it looks like he could be the #1 guy and a good pick in the 10th and WR 53. I expect ROY to leave DAL as he took some jabs at Garrett when he was the OC, but he should land elsewhere. Finishing up with a couple of CAR guys might pay off but then again who knows how much they chuck it. There might be weeks where this group struggles to post a number especially when Marshall is on Revis Island and if Collie is hurt but Moss and Simpson should have you covered.

2.08- BassNBrew - Jermichael Finley, GB, TE2

22.08 - BassNBrew - Bo Scaife, TEN?, TE43

Might have been nice to have another body here and this might be where your 3 dst/pk thing hurts a little. Could be a great move just riding these two.

11.09 - BassnBrew - New York Giants, DST5

12.08 - BassNBrew - Oakland Raiders, DST13

13.09 - BassnBrew - Miami Dolphins, DST23

14.08 - BassNBrew - Garrett Hartley, NO, PK5

16.08 - BassNBrew - Ryan Succop, KC, PK20

21.09 - BassnBrew - Shayne Graham, NE?, PK29

Already talked a little about how this may be the way to go in these things and it may take a while for other owners to follow suit, but with the extra picks it is close to being a no brainer. I guess where it may “cost” you is at TE2, maybe RB, or a QB flyer just in case. Having a QB like Vick who can put up monster weeks and cover some weaknesses at RB/WR/TE allows a strategy like this to be implemented and allow you another area to try and pull away from the pack. We’ll see how it works but I am starting the DST run in SSL in about round 6 if that goes to 24.

Overall: Top QB group, some serious questions at RB, pretty solid group of WR’s, Jesus at TE, and a top DST/PK group. Vick is almost like having half a RB and covers many weaknesses, but I have a feeling thinking all the RB depth would fall may cost you as I’m not a big Reggie fan and you need your gambles to pay off with M. Bush and Goodson. No Dwilly trade could be brutal.

Still under review and not final….but close….

1. Norseman

2. Stinkin Ref

3. Jeff Pasquino

4. Sigmund Bloom

5. BassnBrew

6. Razrback77

7. Jeter23

8. Football Critic

9. Reaper

10. Kruppe

11. Andy Dufresne

12. Eakfootball

13. BSS

14. Orgazmo

15. Getinthemix

16. Steel Dillo

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Mine wasn't in order.. But, I'm reading through your's and Blooms reviews and trying to come up with one... It's tough - the uncertainty is killing. Norseman seems to be a concensus top team especially if Blount turns into a top back.IMO that's the real fun and meat of these reviews moving forward - Spotlighting the players who have mixed reviews or question marks but are potential difference makers... TO me:BlountHillisRyan Mathewsj StewartDeangelo WilliamsSidney RiceP HarvinRyan Grant / James StarksOcho / Owens / R MossEtc etc.

I agree....I also have to say that sometimes what can happen too is that we look at the whole body of work and pass judgement on a team while not really factoring in a very important factor....the survivor format...that is why I need to go back a put on my survivor glasses for a final look.....I didn't always do that in the reviews and/or rankings.....a lot of what I did was who I thought put together the best team, but not neccessarily the team that has the best chance of surviving....

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:2cents: 1.09 - BassnBrew - Michael Vick, PHI, QB15.09 - BassnBrew - Jay Cutler, CHI, QB16Top duo in the league. Not much else to say. If Andy would have taken Cutler I am interested to know what you would have done. Part of me thinks you may have still gone QB2 sensing the impending drop off and that there were probably a couple guys who were going to get QB2 before it got back to you. I’m guessing Stafford. Nice job here.4.08- BassNBrew - DeAngelo Williams, CAR, RB178.08 - BassNBrew - Reggie Bush, NO, RB349.09 - BassnBrew - Michael Bush, OAK, RB4115.09 - BassNBrew - Mike Goodson, CAR, RB5820.08 - BassNBrew - Leon Washington, SEA, RB8024.08 - BassNBrew - Mike Bell, CLE, RB95You’ve declared your belief that Dwilly is a steal where you got him and he may very well be. Who knows what happens there though. If things stay the same, it doesn’t seem like as much of a steal. If he goes to NE or something we may be playing for second place. I see 3 pretty solid backs in CAR and you would think there really shouldn’t be room for all 3. Since they can’t really trade guys right now who knows what will happen. Dwilly may stay and Stew may be gone. Maybe they draft Newton and Rivera thinks, hey you know what, whether it’s Clausen or Newton, I better lean on the running game so I keep em all. Think Bush has to get those 70+ receptions to justify RB2 status but it looks like he will be back on NO. I like M. Bush game and think he is a steal in the 9th if he signs elsewhere and will drastically out produce RB41. He becomes top 15 or so in my mind if he becomes the main guy, dude is a load to tackle. I really like Goodson’s game and the way he runs, he was on my radar. Leon burned me a bunch last year and for some reason we all think he should get more touches out of the backfield, but the people getting paid the big bucks don’t. Some question marks in this group and may need some things to change/fall right. 3.09 - BassnBrew - Brandon Marshall, MIA, WR146.08 - BassNBrew - Austin Collie, IND, WR31 7.09 - BassnBrew - Santana Moss, WASH, WR3810.08 - BassNBrew - Jerome Simpson, CIN, WR5317.09 - BassnBrew - Roy Williams, DAL, WR8018.08 - BassNBrew - Plaxico Burress, JAIL, WR9019.09 - BassnBrew - David Gettis, CAR, WR9923.09 - BassnBrew - Armanti Edwards, CAR, WR119Marshall is a good get at 3.09. He should be fine. Three concussions in one year and the NFL treating them the way they do makes the Collie pick tough. Get that many it just seems like it is easier and just a matter of time in this sport before you get another, and nowadays that could mean more than just missing the rest of that game. The third WR in Indy often has more value than many teams WR2’s but there are some mouths to feed as well and White has shown he can play. Hopefully Simpson isn’t this years Aromashodu, but it looks like he could be the #1 guy and a good pick in the 10th and WR 53. I expect ROY to leave DAL as he took some jabs at Garrett when he was the OC, but he should land elsewhere. Finishing up with a couple of CAR guys might pay off but then again who knows how much they chuck it. There might be weeks where this group struggles to post a number especially when Marshall is on Revis Island and if Collie is hurt but Moss and Simpson should have you covered.2.08- BassNBrew - Jermichael Finley, GB, TE222.08 - BassNBrew - Bo Scaife, TEN?, TE43Might have been nice to have another body here and this might be where your 3 dst/pk thing hurts a little. Could be a great move just riding these two. 11.09 - BassnBrew - New York Giants, DST512.08 - BassNBrew - Oakland Raiders, DST1313.09 - BassnBrew - Miami Dolphins, DST2314.08 - BassNBrew - Garrett Hartley, NO, PK516.08 - BassNBrew - Ryan Succop, KC, PK2021.09 - BassnBrew - Shayne Graham, NE?, PK29Already talked a little about how this may be the way to go in these things and it may take a while for other owners to follow suit, but with the extra picks it is close to being a no brainer. I guess where it may “cost” you is at TE2, maybe RB, or a QB flyer just in case. Having a QB like Vick who can put up monster weeks and cover some weaknesses at RB/WR/TE allows a strategy like this to be implemented and allow you another area to try and pull away from the pack. We’ll see how it works but I am starting the DST run in SSL in about round 6 if that goes to 24. Overall: Top QB group, some serious questions at RB, pretty solid group of WR’s, Jesus at TE, and a top DST/PK group. Vick is almost like having half a RB and covers many weaknesses, but I have a feeling thinking all the RB depth would fall may cost you as I’m not a big Reggie fan and you need your gambles to pay off with M. Bush and Goodson. No Dwilly trade could be brutal.Still under review and not final….but close….1. Norseman2. Stinkin Ref3. Jeff Pasquino4. Sigmund Bloom5. BassnBrew6. Razrback777. Jeter238. Football Critic9. Reaper10. Kruppe11. Andy Dufresne12. Eakfootball13. BSS14. Orgazmo15. Getinthemix16. Steel Dillo

Very fair assessment. Once I selected Vick I went swinging for the fences in an effort to repeat. If a couple of things break right this team is a lock for the final three. Very hard team to grade with all the risk.

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Considering how I was "stuck" at the 16-spot (thanks again BSS), I'll take a Top 3 ranking - even if it does mean a Kiss o' Death.

Now let's see where my rookies go.... :popcorn:

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in these things I think the 5-9 hole is the place to be.....

although I like what the top 2-3 can do at the 2-3 turn to set their base....

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Ingram to the Saints hurts my Ivory pick even more. Doh!

Wait till Seattle takes a RB ;)I was sweating the Giants taking Ingram. Having Garrard lose some value hurts enough. Hopefully they bring along Gabbert real slow :bag:

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well there goes Beanies value! ;)

and your 8th rounder's as well.....
hes a FA, didnt know that, so who knows. BJGE/Woodhead/Vreen/Ridley = who knows too

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8.15 - Reaper - James Starks, GB, RB39

24.15 - Reaper - Alex Green, ROOKIE, RB98

My Mr irrelevant pick looks better.

Could have been a lot worse. But, I think the combined value of Starks/Green looks pretty good still. Especially as just Depth after my top 2 backs.

Didn't land Ryan Williams here but, snagged him in the 10th in the WSL... Still, I'd rather Williams landed in a place like Miami where he would be an instant star IMO - not as sure with the Zona running game but, glad to have a piece of him.

And I still stand by my opinion that a lot of drafters rolled the dice with the RB spot trying to go minimum RB in a real messy landscape. We'll have to see if anyone got really blown up....

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Both my rookie RBs in committee slots, but expect both to catch a lot of passes, Vereen in NE and D Murray in Dallas

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Yup, lets not mention my Locker or Baldwin picks, lol

Locker will be a decent backup to my stud QB, I'll need Locker for 3 weeks if that, he is the most NFL ready QB IMHO. Vince Young will sign somewhere, so all my QB haters, meh.

Now Vick and Cutler or Brees and Locker/Young?

I have the better stud, and 2 options at backup that will play.

As a whole, I now have the Best QBs.

Baldwin as a first round WR in KC, to pair with McCluster as the almsot sure #2 points in KC, I like it.

My team just got stronger.

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Oh, and.....

How bout that Eagles kicker pick?

Why did they Eagles draft Henery in the 4th? The Eagles pulled a Jeff P and drafted a K way toooooo early.

Akers is on his last leg I guess.

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well there goes Beanies value! ;)

and your 8th rounder's as well.....
hes a FA, didnt know that, so who knows. BJGE/Woodhead/Vreen/Ridley = who knows too
Jacobs!...:slamsaceofspadesontable:..little bit of damage maybe to Woodhead (my RB3)...but not to both my RB2 and RB3 handcuff....and two of my top 8 picks...although the Leshoure to DET is a little concerning.... :unsure:

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Oh, and.....

How bout that Eagles kicker pick?

Why did they Eagles draft Henery in the 4th? The Eagles pulled a Jeff P and drafted a K way toooooo early.

Akers is on his last leg I guess.

that got my fantasy attention as much as it can for a kicker...isn't Akers considered a top 5 guy before that...?

and doesn't that kid punt too....?

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Oh, and.....How bout that Eagles kicker pick? Why did they Eagles draft Henery in the 4th? The Eagles pulled a Jeff P and drafted a K way toooooo early.Akers is on his last leg I guess.

Eagles may be either selecting their punter for the year, growing tired of Akers or planning for him to leave - or any combo of the above.Kid seemed to be very automatic ("robo-kicker") in college. We'll have to see.

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Bye weeksQB - Eli Manning (7), Matthew Stafford (9), Rex Grossman (5 if WASH)RB - Frank Gore (7), Joseph Addai (11 if Indy), Ryan Williams (AZ - 6), John Kuhn (8), Delone Carter (Indy - 11)WR - Greg Jennings (8), Steve Johnson (7), Braylon Edwards (8 if NYJ), Randy Moss (?), Ben Obomanu (6) , Josh Morgan (7), Anthony Gonzalez (11), Early Doucet (6)TE - Zach Miller (OAK) (8) , Anthony Fasano (5), DJ Williams (?)PK - David Akers (7), Ryan Longwell (9)D/ST - Dallas (5), San Diego (6), Houston (11)OK at QBRB seems okWR - could be rough in Weeks 7 and 8TE/PK/DST look ok

Rookie bye week check.Ryan Williams - AZ - Week 6.Delone Carter in Indy. Great pairing with Addai. Week 11. DJ Williams in GB. Not a great place with Finley, but could have huge upside if Finley is hurt.Only damage is really to TE3, and I think I covered Indy RB pretty well now. I'll take it.

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4.16- Rzrback77 - Josh Freeman(8) TB, QB12

9.01 - Rzrback77 - Colt McCoy(5) CLE, QB26

24.16 - Rzrback77 - Josh Johnson(8) TB, QB46

1.01 - Rzrback77 - Adrian Peterson(9) MIN, RB1

8.16 - Rzrback77 - Ladainian Tomlinson(8) NYJ, RB40

13.01 - Rzrback77 - Toby Gerhart, MIN(9) RB51

15.01 - Rzrback77 - Montario Hardesty(5) CLE, RB57

17.01 - Rzrback77 - DeMarco Murray (5) DAL ROOKIE, RB62

21.01 - Rzrback77 - Shane Vereen (7) NE ROOKIE, RB82

2.16- Rzrback77 - Reggie Wayne(11) IND, WR8

3.01 - Rzrback77 - Dwayne Bowe(6) KC, WR9

7.01 - Rzrback77 - Steve Smith(9) CAR, WR33

12.16 - Rzrback77 - Nate Washington(6) TEN, WR66

18.16 - Rzrback77 - Andre Roberts(6) AZ, WR94

19.01 - Rzrback77 - Brian Hartline(5) MIA, WR95

20.16 - Rzrback77 - Harry Douglas, ATL(8) WR105

22.16 - Rzrback77 - Laurent Robinson(5) STL?, WR114

5.01 - Rzrback77 - Chris Cooley(5) WAS, TE8

6.16 - Rzrback77 - Tony Gonzalez(8) ATL, TE16

23.01 - Rzrback77 - Delanie Walker(7) SF, TE44

14.16 - Rzrback77 - Neil Rackers(11) HOU, PK8

16.16 - Rzrback77 - Jay Feely(6) AZ, PK22

10.16 - Rzrback77 - Pittsburgh Steelers(11) DST1

11.01 - Rzrback77 - Green Bay Packers(8) DST2

Rookie draft impact - Shane Veren drafted higher than expected, but at New England and opinions vary greatly on his involvement. D. Murry goes to Dallas with an apparently crowded situation. I expect both to be involved as receivers and had minimal impact on bye weeks, so not terribly bad.

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If my lack of drafting skill doesn't do me in, my bad luck with the byes will.

Week 7 I won't have a QB unless Clausen pulls his head out his butt. Won't have a D and lose my TE1.

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1.11 - Aaron Rodgers, GB, QB2 (8)

6.06 - Tim Tebow, DEN, QB19 (6)

3.11 - Peyton Hillis, CLE, RB14 (5)

4.06- Jahvid Best, DET, RB16 (9)

9.11 - Danny Woodhead, NE, RB42 (7)

10.06 - Brandon Jacobs, NYG, RB44 (7)

18.06 - Jerome Harrison, PHI?, RB67 (7)

20.06 - LeRon McClain, BAL, RB79 (5)

24.06 - Derrick Ward, HOU, RB93 (11)

2.06- Hakeem Nicks, NYG, WR5 (7)

7.11 - Terrell Owens, CIN?, WR39 (?)

8.06 - Jordy Nelson, GB, WR44 (8)

11.11 - Jordan Shipley, CIN, WR62 (7)

17.11 - Jason Avant, PHI, WR81 (7)

19.11 - Brandon LaFell, CAR, WR100 (9)

21.11 - Josh Cribbs, CLE, WR109 (5)

22.06 - Damian Williams, TEN, WR112 (6)

23.11 - Kevin Ogletree, DAL, WR121 (5)

5.11 - Jimmy Graham, NO, TE10 (11)

15.11 - Jacob Tamme, IND, TE30 (11)

14.06 - Matt Bryant, ATL, PK4 (8)

16.06 - Matt Prater, DEN, PK19 (6)

12.06 - Detroit Lions, DST12 (9)

13.11 - Washington Redskins, DST25 (5)

No TE in week 11.

And week 7 could be some damage. Need TO to not be off.

Could have been worse.

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QB - Drew Brees (11), Vince Young, Jake Locker ® (6)

RB - Steven Jackson (5), BenJarvus Green-Ellis (7), Cedric Benson (7), Anthony Dixon (7), Dion Lewis ® (7), Javon Ringer (6), Clinton Portis

WR - Jeremy Maclin (7), Sidney Rice (9), Hines Ward (11), Robert Meachem (11), Jonathan Baldwin ® (6), Dexter McCluster (6), Legadu Naanee (6)

TE - Kellen Winslow (8), Vishante Shiancoe (9), Zach Miller (Jax) (9)

K - Robbie Gould (8), Lawrence Tynes (7)

D - Baltimore (5), Jacksonville (9)

Week 7 is an extremely bad week for me at runner, immunity will be huge in week 6 for me.

I like having Locker go that high to a team that needs a QB, that should work out, same for Baldwin.

Have a trouble week, as almost all do, it is just part of this lockout and late schedule.

But I should still be able to dominate for six weeks, lol.

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Now Vick and Cutler or Brees and Locker/Young?

Total best ball points over the season or most weeks with top score at QB? Either way I've got you covered. I'd side wager but no one ever pays me in a timely manner when they ultimately lose to me.

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Now Vick and Cutler or Brees and Locker/Young?

Total best ball points over the season or most weeks with top score at QB? Either way I've got you covered. I'd side wager but no one ever pays me in a timely manner when they ultimately lose to me.
I might like some of that action...... :unsure:

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