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most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.

I've not heard this before. Recent examples?

Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.

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most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.

I've not heard this before. Recent examples?

Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.

So you don't know? I sure don't.

Not even sure how to dig up recent seasons' former high round draft picks who had disappointed or been underused early in their careers due to non-injury reasons, were suddenly being touted as training camp standouts possibly due to finally live up to the years' old hype, and were climbing up fantasy draft boards due to this, but then subsequently disappointed. And I'm even more certain I don't know how to dig up all such players so that I can determine whether they usually disappoint, or whether the post-hype rebirth/breakout usually comes through.

Not exactly Google friendly.

ETA: That's why I thought it would expedite things to ask the guy who seemed to already have the data at hand. :shrug:

Edited by Man of Zen

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most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.

I've not heard this before. Recent examples?

Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.

So you don't know? I sure don't.

Not even sure how to dig up recent seasons' former high round draft picks who had disappointed or been underused early in their careers due to non-injury reasons, were suddenly being touted as training camp standouts possibly due to finally live up to the years' old hype, and were climbing up fantasy draft boards due to this, but then subsequently disappointed. And I'm even more certain I don't know how to dig up all such players so that I can determine whether they usually disappoint, or whether the post-hype rebirth/breakout usually comes through.

Not exactly Google friendly.

ETA: That's why I thought it would expedite things to ask the guy who seemed to already have the data at hand. :shrug:

How about a pretty recent class.

Beanie

Knowshon

Donald Brown

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most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.

I've not heard this before. Recent examples?

Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.

So you don't know? I sure don't.

Not even sure how to dig up recent seasons' former high round draft picks who had disappointed or been underused early in their careers due to non-injury reasons, were suddenly being touted as training camp standouts possibly due to finally live up to the years' old hype, and were climbing up fantasy draft boards due to this, but then subsequently disappointed. And I'm even more certain I don't know how to dig up all such players so that I can determine whether they usually disappoint, or whether the post-hype rebirth/breakout usually comes through.

Not exactly Google friendly.

ETA: That's why I thought it would expedite things to ask the guy who seemed to already have the data at hand. :shrug:

How about a pretty recent class.

Beanie

Knowshon

Donald Brown

Its pretty much the life cycle of most draft busts, player was never good enough to beat out the "other guy" and has a hyped up mid-career pre-season only to disappoint and fade away.

Just saying this happens more times than not, be wary.

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most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.

I've not heard this before. Recent examples?

Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.

So you don't know? I sure don't.

Not even sure how to dig up recent seasons' former high round draft picks who had disappointed or been underused early in their careers due to non-injury reasons, were suddenly being touted as training camp standouts possibly due to finally live up to the years' old hype, and were climbing up fantasy draft boards due to this, but then subsequently disappointed. And I'm even more certain I don't know how to dig up all such players so that I can determine whether they usually disappoint, or whether the post-hype rebirth/breakout usually comes through.

Not exactly Google friendly.

ETA: That's why I thought it would expedite things to ask the guy who seemed to already have the data at hand. :shrug:

How about a pretty recent class.

Beanie

Knowshon

Donald Brown

All these guys have had serious injuries that keep them off the field for an extended period of time.....Ingram has not been 100% but has not had the problems these guys had....all signs are pointing to a break out season if he can stay healthy

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most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.

I've not heard this before. Recent examples?

Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.

So you don't know? I sure don't.

Not even sure how to dig up recent seasons' former high round draft picks who had disappointed or been underused early in their careers due to non-injury reasons, were suddenly being touted as training camp standouts possibly due to finally live up to the years' old hype, and were climbing up fantasy draft boards due to this, but then subsequently disappointed. And I'm even more certain I don't know how to dig up all such players so that I can determine whether they usually disappoint, or whether the post-hype rebirth/breakout usually comes through.

Not exactly Google friendly.

ETA: That's why I thought it would expedite things to ask the guy who seemed to already have the data at hand. :shrug:

How about a pretty recent class.

Beanie

Knowshon

Donald Brown

Its pretty much the life cycle of most draft busts, player was never good enough to beat out the "other guy" and has a hyped up mid-career pre-season only to disappoint and fade away.

Just saying this happens more times than not, be wary.

Yet noone has to draft Ingram to do anything but maybe be a flex or bye week/injury replacement.

His ADP per FBG is in the 7th round which puts him squarely in RB3 territory. For someone likely to get 200 ish touches, that's outstanding. While others are grabbing Bernard Pierce, hoping for a Ray Rice injury, you could have a guy getting the majority of rushing attempts in a good offense. Seems pretty good to me

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Here's a legit question for the Ingram crowd. Would you rather have Ingram or a guy like Christine Michael?

One guy destroyed college football, won a Heisman, was a first rounder, and has battled some injuries and potentially improper usage in a crowded backfield of a pass-happy team.

The other guy was a disappointment in college, fell out of favor with his college coaches, yet still became a second round pick, is also getting hyped like crazy, and plays in a crowded backfield of a rushing juggernaut.

Which guy are you taking - cause I've seen Ingram dealt for picks right in the Christine Michael range… and I can see both sides.

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Here's a legit question for the Ingram crowd. Would you rather have Ingram or a guy like Christine Michael?

One guy destroyed college football, won a Heisman, was a first rounder, and has battled some injuries and potentially improper usage in a crowded backfield of a pass-happy team.

The other guy was a disappointment in college, fell out of favor with his college coaches, yet still became a second round pick, is also getting hyped like crazy, and plays in a crowded backfield of a rushing juggernaut.

Which guy are you taking - cause I've seen Ingram dealt for picks right in the Christine Michael range… and I can see both sides.

It's Ingram for me.....now if the beast blows out his knee....maybe that changes.....but Ingram is still only 23 his numbers improved in year two even with him not getting used correctly.....I can however see the other side of this and why some people are not high on Ingram....this year well tell us all we need to know......is he a healthy stud or a healthy dude?? And can he stay healthy for 15-16 games....this is what we will learn this year

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Here's a legit question for the Ingram crowd. Would you rather have Ingram or a guy like Christine Michael?

One guy destroyed college football, won a Heisman, was a first rounder, and has battled some injuries and potentially improper usage in a crowded backfield of a pass-happy team.

The other guy was a disappointment in college, fell out of favor with his college coaches, yet still became a second round pick, is also getting hyped like crazy, and plays in a crowded backfield of a rushing juggernaut.

Which guy are you taking - cause I've seen Ingram dealt for picks right in the Christine Michael range and I can see both sides.

Redraft: Ingram

Dynasty: Michael

It's a now vs later and upside vs helps you now deal for me

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most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.

I've not heard this before. Recent examples?

Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.

So you don't know? I sure don't.

Not even sure how to dig up recent seasons' former high round draft picks who had disappointed or been underused early in their careers due to non-injury reasons, were suddenly being touted as training camp standouts possibly due to finally live up to the years' old hype, and were climbing up fantasy draft boards due to this, but then subsequently disappointed. And I'm even more certain I don't know how to dig up all such players so that I can determine whether they usually disappoint, or whether the post-hype rebirth/breakout usually comes through.

Not exactly Google friendly.

ETA: That's why I thought it would expedite things to ask the guy who seemed to already have the data at hand. :shrug:

How about a pretty recent class.

Beanie

Knowshon

Donald Brown

How about Benson, Thomas Jones, CJ Spiller, Deangelo Williams,

I would guess that more often the guy fails--but guys with high pedigree usually get multiple chances to prove themself. In Benson and Jones' cases, it took going to a different team that used their skills differently. In Spiller's case, he needed to mature and earn more time from a good vet. And in Deangelo's case, he also didn't get enough reps and played for a coach who just doesn't like to start young players.

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Here's a legit question for the Ingram crowd. Would you rather have Ingram or a guy like Christine Michael?

One guy destroyed college football, won a Heisman, was a first rounder, and has battled

some injuries and potentially improper usage in a crowded backfield of a pass-happy team.

The other guy was a disappointment in college, fell out of favor with his college coaches, yet still became a second round pick, is also getting hyped like crazy, and plays in a crowded backfield of a rushing juggernaut.

Which guy are you taking - cause I've seen Ingram dealt for picks right in the Christine Michael range and I can see both sides.

It's Ingram for me.....now if the beast blows out his knee....maybe that changes.....but Ingram is still only 23 his numbers improved in year two

even with him not getting used correctly.....I can however see the other side of this and why some people are not high on Ingram....this year well tell us all we need to know......is he a healthy stud or a healthy dude?? And can he stay healthy for 15-16 games....this is what we will learn this year

Disagree that this year is likely to provide too much more info on Ingram. I'd still buy him in dynasty even if he comes out and puts up 150 - 600 - 5, personally. He's not as good a fit for the Saints' pass-heavy spread offense as more the versatile and explosive Sproles and Thomas. When his rookie contract is up, then we'll see. IMO he might be a Pro Bowler in a power ground scheme like SF or Seattle.

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most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.

I've not heard this before. Recent examples?

Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.

So you don't know? I sure don't.

Not even sure how to dig up recent seasons' former high round draft picks who had disappointed or been underused early in their careers due to non-injury reasons, were suddenly being touted as training camp standouts possibly due to finally live up to the years' old hype, and were climbing up fantasy draft boards due to this, but then subsequently disappointed. And I'm even more certain I don't know how to dig up all such players so that I can determine whether they usually disappoint, or whether the post-hype rebirth/breakout usually comes through.

Not exactly Google friendly.

ETA: That's why I thought it would expedite things to ask the guy who seemed to already have the data at hand. :shrug:

How about a pretty recent class.

Beanie

Knowshon

Donald Brown

How about Benson, Thomas Jones, CJ Spiller, Deangelo Williams,

I would guess that more often the guy fails--but guys with high pedigree usually get multiple chances to prove themself. In Benson and Jones' cases, it took going to a different team that used their skills differently. In Spiller's case, he needed to mature and earn more time from a good vet. And in Deangelo's case, he also didn't get enough reps and played for a coach who just doesn't like to start young players.

all those guys were top 10 picks, Ingram was a couple of picks away from falling into the second round

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Here's a legit question for the Ingram crowd. Would you rather have Ingram or a guy like Christine Michael?

One guy destroyed college football, won a Heisman, was a first rounder, and has battled some injuries and potentially improper usage in a crowded backfield of a pass-happy team.

The other guy was a disappointment in college, fell out of favor with his college coaches, yet still became a second round pick, is also getting hyped like crazy, and plays in a crowded backfield of a rushing juggernaut.

Which guy are you taking - cause I've seen Ingram dealt for picks right in the Christine Michael range… and I can see both sides.

Probably depends on how strong my team is at RB at that point. If I need a body, I take Ingram because his floor is higher. If I am pretty strong at RB, I maybe gamble on Michael because I do like his athleticism. But even then it's hard to bank on a knucklehead as your #3 when it's going to take an injury or two years of patience before he can pay off for you.

On second thought, I probably take Ingram in both situations and hope Michael is there for my #4.

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most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.

I've not heard this before. Recent examples?

Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.

So you don't know? I sure don't.

Not even sure how to dig up recent seasons' former high round draft picks who had disappointed or been underused early in their careers due to non-injury reasons, were suddenly being touted as training camp standouts possibly due to finally live up to the years' old hype, and were climbing up fantasy draft boards due to this, but then subsequently disappointed. And I'm even more certain I don't know how to dig up all such players so that I can determine whether they usually disappoint, or whether the post-hype rebirth/breakout usually comes through.

Not exactly Google friendly.

ETA: That's why I thought it would expedite things to ask the guy who seemed to already have the data at hand. :shrug:

How about a pretty recent class.

Beanie

Knowshon

Donald Brown

How about Benson, Thomas Jones, CJ Spiller, Deangelo Williams,

I would guess that more often the guy fails--but guys with high pedigree usually get multiple chances to prove themself. In Benson and Jones' cases, it took going to a different team that used their skills differently. In Spiller's case, he needed to mature and earn more time from a good vet. And in Deangelo's case, he also didn't get enough reps and played for a coach who just doesn't like to start young players.

all those guys were top 10 picks, Ingram was a couple of picks away from falling into the second round

:grad: Actually Deangelo went 27th.

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most of the time when a player is hyped like this, especially one thats been in the league for a couple of yrs and haven't done much, its usually a disappointment.

I've not heard this before. Recent examples?

Do some homework. This is an easy assignment where the entire class gets an A.

So you don't know? I sure don't.

Not even sure how to dig up recent seasons' former high round draft picks who had disappointed or been underused early in their careers due to non-injury reasons, were suddenly being touted as training camp standouts possibly due to finally live up to the years' old hype, and were climbing up fantasy draft boards due to this, but then subsequently disappointed. And I'm even more certain I don't know how to dig up all such players so that I can determine whether they usually disappoint, or whether the post-hype rebirth/breakout usually comes through.

Not exactly Google friendly.

ETA: That's why I thought it would expedite things to ask the guy who seemed to already have the data at hand. :shrug:

How about a pretty recent class.

Beanie

Knowshon

Donald Brown

How about Benson, Thomas Jones, CJ Spiller, Deangelo Williams,

I would guess that more often the guy fails--but guys with high pedigree usually get multiple chances to prove themself. In Benson and Jones' cases, it took going to a different team that used their skills differently. In Spiller's case, he needed to mature and earn more time from a good vet. And in Deangelo's case, he also didn't get enough reps and played for a coach who just doesn't like to start young players.

all those guys were top 10 picks, Ingram was a couple of picks away from falling into the second round

:grad: Actually Deangelo went 27th.

oh yeah, thanks

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Did anyone see the game tonight? How'd he look?

Just watched it....he ran strong....looked good on the few carries he had....he was in the game on 3rd down....all good signs....next week will tell us more

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Did anyone see the game tonight? How'd he look?

Just watched it....he ran strong....looked good on the few carries he had....he was in the game on 3rd down....all good signs....next week will tell us more

Played with the 1's. Good.

Played sparingly. Good.

Played on 3rd down. Good.

It's starting to look like confirmation of the team's intent (and belief).

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Did anyone see the game tonight? How'd he look?

Just watched it....he ran strong....looked good on the few carries he had....he was in the game on 3rd down....all good signs....next week will tell us more

Played with the 1's. Good.

Played sparingly. Good.

Played on 3rd down. Good.

It's starting to look like confirmation of the team's intent (and belief).

Thomas was inactive

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Did anyone see the game tonight? How'd he look?

Just watched it....he ran strong....looked good on the few carries he had....he was in the game on 3rd down....all good signs....next week will tell us more

Played with the 1's. Good.

Played sparingly. Good.

Played on 3rd down. Good.

It's starting to look like confirmation of the team's intent (and belief).

Thomas was inactive

Swoooooooooooooosh. Air leaves balloon.

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Did anyone see the game tonight? How'd he look?

Just watched it....he ran strong....looked good on the few carries he had....he was in the game on 3rd down....all good signs....next week will tell us more

Played with the 1's. Good.

Played sparingly. Good.

Played on 3rd down. Good.

It's starting to look like confirmation of the team's intent (and belief).

Thomas was inactive

Swoooooooooooooosh. Air leaves balloon.

We knew that PT was not playing in this game....I don't think that would have changed what Ingram did or how Payton played Ingram....so the ballon still has the same air it did before......I hope PT is active next week....Ingram played well looked good had some burst....Ingram run between the tackles.....and from watching the game it seems that Ingram is the only rb they have that does not try to bounce every carry to the outside.....

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Did anyone see the game tonight? How'd he look?

Just watched it....he ran strong....looked good on the few carries he had....he was in the game on 3rd down....all good signs....next week will tell us more

Played with the 1's. Good.

Played sparingly. Good.

Played on 3rd down. Good.

It's starting to look like confirmation of the team's intent (and belief).

Thomas was inactive

Swoooooooooooooosh. Air leaves balloon.

This doesn't bring down the good feeling at all. First off PT has not been the most durable of back even if he has been clutch at times for the Saints. You look in depth at PT and his 100 yd games are scarce and his >15 carry games are even more scarce. We all know what Sproles is and what he means to the Saints but it doesn't help that both those backs are coming to an age where running backs slow down. Hell, Brees is getting older. Payton is one of the most resourceful offensive coaches in the league and branches from Bill Parcells who used to have workhorse RB's as well as RB's in the mold of Sproles. In any case if Payton does want to ground it, he would first have to try it with the back most capable of doing so and that is Ingram.

Edited by Bojang0301

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Did anyone see the game tonight? How'd he look?

Just watched it....he ran strong....looked good on the few carries he had....he was in the game on 3rd down....all good signs....next week will tell us more

Played with the 1's. Good.

Played sparingly. Good.

Played on 3rd down. Good.

It's starting to look like confirmation of the team's intent (and belief).

Thomas was inactive

Swoooooooooooooosh. Air leaves balloon.

This doesn't bring down the good feeling at all. First off PT has not been the most durable of back even if he has been clutch at times for the Saints. You look in depth at PT and his 100 yd games are scarce and his >15 carry games are even more scarce. We all know what Sproles is and what he means to the Saints but it doesn't help that both those backs are coming to an age where running backs slow down. Hell, Brees is getting older. Payton is one of the most resourceful offensive coaches in the league and branches from Bill Parcells who used to have workhorse RB's as well as RB's in the mold of Sproles. In any case if Payton does want to ground it, he would first have to try it with the back most capable of doing so and that is Ingram.

was just saying, besides I think if even PT was active Ingram would and should be getting the 1st team reps

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Just ignore KL/multiple scores. He's the biggest Ingram hater on this board.

KL is targeting Ingram this year. There must be others who hate more?

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Just to be clear....I play in dynasty leagues.....28-32 man rosters plus IR....I am targeting Ingram as my #4 RB bye week flex play for this year...I am not looking for him to be a huge contributor for my teams in 2012...I would pay a 2013 mid to late 1st plus a 2012 2nd all day every day in any league I play in for him and feel great about it

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Rotoworld:

The New Orleans Times-Picayune projects Mark Ingram to rush for 860 yards and eight touchdowns this season.

He's projected at 200 carries (4.3 YPC) with 15 receptions for 80 more yards. Beat writer Mike Triplett's projection is based on a 300-yard spike from the Saints' 2012 rushing total with Sean Payton prioritizing more commitment to the run game. Triplett's numbers would've landed Ingram 22nd among last year's fantasy running backs. We see the projection as slightly optimistic.

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Just to be clear....I play in dynasty leagues.....28-32 man rosters plus IR....I am targeting Ingram as my #4 RB bye week flex play for this year...I am not looking for him to be a huge contributor for my teams in 2012...I would pay a 2013 mid to late 1st plus a 2012 2nd all day every day in any league I play in for him and feel great about it

tell you what - I will give you ALL of my 2012 picks for Ingram. :pokey:

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I didn't say it means much, but it is one less talented competitor for him to share with. Ingram played every game last season, so it stands to reason that if Ivory wasn't there, Ingram would have had a few more carries, unless you think they would have given the same amount to the 5th string RB in those games.

Thomas and Ivory were both UDFAs so I wouldn't put it past the Saints to give carries to the next man up, if Ivory wasn't available. Travis Cadet is more of a replacement for Sproles than one who would take carries away from Ingram, so maybe Khiry Robinson a 220 pound rookie out of West Texas A&M becomes their new Ivory.

Their draft status (or lack thereof, as it were) is as unrelated to the carry distribution as anyone can get.

If your argument is that Ivory's carries are going to go to someone other than Ingram because Ingram needs some breather time during the games, that's a fair point. But wouldn't Pierre be the beneficiary in that scenario?

But any implication that the Saints, by design, try to siphon off carries to guys lower on the totem pole based on some principal or plan to get those guys some action is misguided.

What playing PT and Ivory tells you is that the Saints will play the guy who proves himself regardless of where he was drafted. The thing is, they seem to keep sticking with Ingram despite those of us in the fantasy world constantly gnashing our teeth. I think that means they see something there. And this may the year that it comes together for him.

Exactly, and it looks to me like Ingram is getting outplayed by Robinson.

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9 carries for 11 yards, that's some vintage Ingram running right there. Fool me once...

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I came away from today's game with the impression that he gets his two yard runs with much more burst. <_<

At least twice I thought, oh there was a nice run. Oops, that was Thomas.

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Dude needs a change of scenery. Badly. He needs volume touches, and he just won't get that in N.O.

Yeah, if they gave him 10 or 20 mode carries I bet he could have racked up 30 or 40 total yards.

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I'm not a big fan of his or anything, but it doesn't help being so predictable with him in the game. They really need to mix it up some, otherwise he's going to continue to be hit in the backfield.

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Clearly I'm :confused: then.

This is beyond ridiculous at this point, I've already explained how it can happen. They threw the ball approx. the same amount in 2011 as 2012 (9 more attempts in 2012), yet they ran the ball 61 more times in 2011 than 2012. As you can see, they ran 52 more plays in 2011, so if they have a similar season, Brees can throw the same amount, Thomas and Sproles can get the same amount (or even more), and Ingram can get more.

Before you respond, I'm not arguing that it's definitely going to happen that way, just saying that it's entirely possible. He doesn't have to take touches away from those guys in order to see an increase.

Good start.

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Clearly I'm :confused: then.

This is beyond ridiculous at this point, I've already explained how it can happen. They threw the ball approx. the same amount in 2011 as 2012 (9 more attempts in 2012), yet they ran the ball 61 more times in 2011 than 2012. As you can see, they ran 52 more plays in 2011, so if they have a similar season, Brees can throw the same amount, Thomas and Sproles can get the same amount (or even more), and Ingram can get more.

Before you respond, I'm not arguing that it's definitely going to happen that way, just saying that it's entirely possible. He doesn't have to take touches away from those guys in order to see an increase.

Good start.

:lmao:

Learn basic arithmetic yet?

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I'm not ready to give up on Ingram. He just needs an opportunity to be a 20+ carry guy on a team that isn't the Saints.

I'd never draft him in redraft but dynasty he's a buy IMO.

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